Fuck Dana White: negotiations, contracts, coke, and hookers

Noah Roberts46 said:@bluemason3/">@@bluemason3

Of course it's about the money. He just doesn't want to admit it because he wants to look greedy. At least that’s my take, especially since he works so hard to maintain this "humble guy" image. Plus, he seems set on landing one big boxing match, which isn't impossible right now—Ariel mentioned that in an interview.

Maybe, but he keeps insisting it's not about the cash and claiming he already turned down millions...

Based on what he's saying, it sounds like he wants a boxing contract structure, which goes against how almost every major MMA organization operates. He's essentially trying to flip the entire business model on its head, which, in my opinion, is way too ambitious.

It’s possible he can pull off some decent fights as a freelancer, whether in boxing or elsewhere. On the other hand, if things fall through with Mike Tyson, he’ll likely end up making less than he would have stayed in the UFC with a better contract.

Obviously, I don't know what his real motives are behind the scenes, but from what he's saying publicly, he seems like the type who throws out ultimatums during negotiations and refuses to budge. The whole situation feels weird to me; I honestly don't know what to make of him.
With Dan, you know where you stand. We also know he's prone to settling financial details with top fighters behind closed doors, often in ways that never hit the news because he doesn't want to drive up the general pay scale. So, I actually believe he could have been offered a very solid deal.

If he were truly doing this for the good of the sport, he wouldn't be pushing this boxing angle so hard. To me, all this talk about health risks feels like smoke and mirrors. Either he has a genuine issue with existing obligations, he's genuinely obsessed with boxing, or he's figured out that this path is more profitable. Looking at the facts, I don't see a fourth option. 🤔

Whatever mess Dan might have caused in the past or any drama he contributed to, I doubt he'd agree to something that ruins the vibe. Sure, the UFC could make a quick buck by promoting a fight like this, but they could also indirectly damage their reputation. Dan was never one to make exceptions like he did with Conor; most everyone else is just a footnote by the time they jump into boxing.

It also feels risky to bet everything on negotiating a fight with Mike Tyson when Tyson likely has a few more serious, high-paying boxing matches left in him. Then again, Francis Ngannou won't be fighting for a year anyway, and Tyson might decide to retire after another couple of bouts.

And maybe they’re looking for some kind of excuse or whatever. Either way, they've treated him like absolute garbage ever since he became champion. First, they hand out that ridiculous interim belt when they should have been setting up the title fight after waiting a year, then they scramble to make one just four months after he won the title. On top of that, the promotion for his last fight was practically nonexistent—not to mention those lawsuits popping up right before the bout. There were plenty of other bullshit moves too... Franjo is just vindictive. ☕

Noah Roberts46 said:I don't know, man... I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Like, is there actually a difference between grinding out a 9-to-5 and being a pro fighter in the cage? Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I guess they're kind of the same thing. You show up every single day, right? Even when you don't want to. Even when your body feels like trash or your boss is being a total nightmare. It’s that same grind. You go into the office—or the gym, whatever—and you just put your head down and deal with it. It's all about showing up when things suck. And the pressure? Man, that's real. Whether you're staring down a guy like Mike Tyson in the octagon or you're sitting in a high-stakes meeting at Goldman Sachs trying not to mess up a huge presentation... it's that same feeling in your gut. That "don't screw this up" sensation. I guess it really just comes down to discipline. You can't just decide to be great on Tuesdays. You gotta do the boring, repetitive stuff every single day if you want to actually get somewhere. It's pretty heavy when you think about it, I guess. Just life, you know? 🥱

Look, I didn't say it was easy. Far from it. It’s grueling work—lots of sacrifices and honestly, just straight-up bleeding. But at the end of the day, every fighter chose this path on their own. Nobody held a gun to anyone's head and forced them into the cage. Just because you make a living getting punched in the face doesn't mean you automatically deserve a massive payday.

Noah Roberts46 said:So, you sign that shitty exclusive contract at the start because, let's be real, there isn't really any other choice. Once you make it, you're basically stuck fighting under those same terms for your next few bouts. If you aren't feeling it? Lol, like, go join another organization then? I guess... but look, even Georges St-Pierre has been retired for five years and he's still sidelined. Whatever, man. You deserve way more than that.

Nobody signs those long-term deals right out of the gate because, let's be real, the UFC isn't exactly handing out massive paychecks to the newcomers. I guess you could call them "rookie contracts" at a decent amount, but most fighters end up walking away from the money since they don't really bring enough heat or quality to the cage. I remember Rosholt—that guy had like a 7-2 record, but after he lost to Nelson, he basically got the boot because he was just boring as hell and the brass wasn't making any money off him. After that first contract is up, a ton of guys go all in too fast and screw themselves, but honestly, that's on them. bluemason3 actually made a good point earlier: it’s on the fighters to make sure they don't sign away too many fights at once. And if GSP really did sign some stupid deal with the UFC, then man, what was he thinking? That's why you hire lawyers, you know? There's no way he signed something like that when he first joined the roster. Like I said, you only get what you're willing to fight for.

Noah Roberts46 said:Man, look at the NBA... every single sport has exploded lately. Player salaries are through the roof, whether you're talking soccer, boxing, or just any major global sport. It’s crazy how much money is flowing in. But UFC? I swear, nobody can actually explain to me why that hasn't happened yet. Like, okay, maybe WWE counts, but we're talking about actual sports here, right? 🤦

There’s honestly nothing to explain here. You’re starting from a totally flawed premise—basically thinking that just because other sports evolved a certain way, the UFC has to follow suit (not that the UFC is even a sport, it's an organization, let's be real). I mean, who cares how things went down in soccer or boxing or whatever? It shouldn't matter. The UFC isn't obligated to give fighters anything more than what was actually agreed upon in their contracts. If fighters aren't happy with how things are right now, it's not like they don't have options. They can just walk away when their deals are up, or maybe, I don't know, they could act like NBA players and start a union to fight for better rights and a "fairer" split of the money.
I mean, the WWE thing was just mentioned because the UFC uses that kind of business model, and honestly? If you're a great entertainer, you'll probably make way more money doing scripted matches than actual fights. Like, ten mil a year beats five mil, right? Not to mention how much less blood you have to spill to get paid. Actually, I guess five mil from wrestling might even be better than ten from real fights if you really think about it.😁

Noah Roberts46 said:Look, let's not beat around the bush, we'll just have to wait and see how long this lasts. Even now, their biggest stars aren't fighting nearly as much. I mean, Franjo does one fight against Tyson Fury and he's already made more than he would in his next five fights in the UFC, so we'll just see what happens with everyone else.

Look, fighters aren't gonna fight more if they're getting paid more, especially the top guys. It’s actually gonna be the exact opposite. These people don't fight because they love getting treated like a punching bag, it's all about the money. The more cash they pull from a single fight, the less they have to compete. The big names make the most dough, so naturally, they don't need to step into the ring 3 or 4 times a year—and if they got even more money, they'd fight even less if that's even possible. I mean, why grind through 25 fights in a career when you can do 10 for the same amount of cash? As for Francis Ngannou and boxing... man, I have no clue where people get the idea that Francis is an interesting matchup for Tyson Fury. He could probably make way more fighting Usyk or Joshua. Knowing how boxing contracts work, he'd definitely land four fights there. A fight against Whyte would probably bring him more money than a fight with Francis. And Francis isn't Conor McGregor, who—besides being a solid fighter—was loud, controversial, and hated... basically everything you need to sell a ton of PPVs.

I honestly don't think Fury would ever get into a scrap with Francis just for the money; it feels more like he’d do it purely for the thrill of it.
It's like when there’s absolutely nothing good to watch on Netflix on a Thursday night, so you just look for some excitement elsewhere.

Hah, look, my take is they’d actually step up if they had a contract guaranteeing them, say, $10 million for just doing three or four fights a year chasing a title. Wouldn't that actually motivate fighters? In other sports, people pull in $50 million a season, so they grind through a long schedule because let's face it—you can never have enough cash.

Look at how Fury has been talking trash to Francis for ages now; he's just out for the entertainment and the money. And fighting Franjo would definitely bring in more than a fight against Whyte would. You've got this guy marketed as the best heavyweight from another sport, running a promotion along the lines of "who is the baddest man on the planet?" Especially those fighters with massive KO power—they are marketing gold, and Fury knows it. That’s why he went three rounds with Wilder; plus, for him, it's an easy payday. 😬

Obviously, it won't sell like Floyd vs. Conor, but it could easily move about a million PPV buys. People live for this kind of nonsense. Just tweak the rules, do cage boxing, use different gloves. Boom—instant show.

Look, you’ve got tennis or F1 on one side, and then there's combat sports on the other. In my book, they aren't even in the same category. When you think about the grueling training camps, the endless sparring sessions, and the absolute torture of making weight, it takes a massive toll on both your mind and your body. Honestly, aside from the money, very few fighters actually want to keep competing as they get older. And when guys do decide to come out of retirement, it's almost always because they're chasing a paycheck. You really think a legend like Fedor would still be stepping into the cage if his manager hadn't cleaned him out? I highly doubt it. Or take Woodley—if he hadn't blown through all his cash on flashy cars and expensive dates, would he even be in this position? Even less likely.

To keep it brief: I am 100% in favor of paying fighters better, especially given how brutal this sport is. But let's be real—even massive pay raises wouldn't change the fact that most guys won't suddenly start fighting more often or increase their total volume just for the extra cash.

stormytiger4 said:I have my doubts. It's possible Woodley blew his entire bankroll on luxury cars and high-end lifestyles.

😬

Thomas Davis18 said:What exactly are you looking for here? Why all this criticism toward the heavyweights?
Obviously, guys weighing 260 lbs aren't going to be dancing around the cage and trading flurries like flyweights. They physically can't, and honestly, it wouldn't be easy for them to do so. That’s precisely why the division is so captivating—one single shot can end the night. We don't watch them for high-level technical wizardry or constant movement; we watch for the impact.
You can't judge every division by the exact same yardstick.

That's a fair point. Heavyweight is just one single category, whereas the lighter weight classes have much more variety, more frequent fights, and more opportunities for matches to actually stick in your memory. HW fights happen far less often, and even the top fighters in the division today don't compete very frequently.

Noah Roberts46 said:Haha, look, I think they’d fight more if there was a contract guaranteeing, say, $10 million for pulling off 3 or 4 title fights a year. Wouldn't that incentivize them? It's the same in other sports—players make $50 million a season and play long schedules because, let's face it, you can never have enough cash.

A lot of fighters could probably pull those numbers right now(Francis mentioned he passed up about $6-7m over his last two fights because he wouldn't sign a certain deal, though I don't quite get how that works since he was still on the old contract leading up to this one, but it definitely illustrates what the current offers look like). With champions, it's hard to know what they actually take home. The official number is just the most direct part of the paycheck. That could be everything, the lion's share, or just a fraction, depending on the side deals that aren't public knowledge.

Also, if champions fought for titles 3 or 4 times in a row, the top of the rankings would be a revolving door. You'd see more turnover at the top, and earnings would likely drop the moment you lose the belt.

Doing 3-4 title fights a year just isn't realistic. There are too many injuries. Often, after a fight, a fighter gets medically sidelined for a while, so they couldn't compete even if they wanted to. Plus, the stakes are too high to jump in without a full camp specifically tailored to an opponent. Everyone else can prepare for one champion, but that one champion has to stay ready for every single potential challenger climbing the ranks.

Sure, if someone is so dominant that they cruise through opponents without major training injuries or cage mishaps, it might happen. But as a general rule? Not happening. And the higher the stakes, the harder that becomes. More money means bigger investments; it stops being just about one fighter and a manager and turns into supporting entire teams of professionals.

He basically threw away $6-7 million just because he wouldn't sign a new deal that was clearly way better, and now he’s sitting here playing the victim over it?
It’s obvious he’s dealing with other issues.

Just a little something regarding the topic we've been chewing on here.

This is a super interesting chat with Randy Couture:
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2022/2/1...eight-mma-news

Basically, back in 2007 or 2008, Couture was in a spot pretty similar to what Frane is dealing with right now. He knows exactly where Frane is coming from, but he also knows exactly what’s coming next. If the UFC keeps running things the way they do, Frane is looking at a mountain of lawsuits designed to drain his bank account and waste enough of his time until he finally just gives in and stays.

Francis probably has the better end of the deal here. This whole thing about contracts expiring after a year is a relatively new rule the UFC introduced, mostly just to protect themselves from those massive lawsuits they’ve been facing lately. Back in Randy's day, this wasn't even an issue, and honestly, there's a chance he didn't even finish out all his scheduled fights as per his contract.

Yep, having that clause about being out after a year of inactivity, plus the rule that contracts can't drag on for more than five years total, definitely works in his favor. It wasn't like this before. Hardy last fought back in 2012, and then in 2021, the UFC just let him go when he asked to be released. But yeah, even nine years after his last fight, he was still technically tied down. It looks like they started fixing those issues in newer contracts around 2017. (If anyone wants to read a killer breakdown on how these contracts work, John Nash wrote a great piece here: https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2022/1/2...hanges-ufc-270). But look, you can already see them threatening him with lawsuits. The UFC might honestly be willing to drop a few million just to bury him in legal fees and squeeze out another six months or a year from him—mostly just to send a message to everyone else to stay in line.

I can't tell if DC was overstepping his bounds here or if he's actually allowed to share this, but he mentioned that Derrick Lewis told him he's pulling in seven figures per fight. We're talking at least a million bucks. Look, I get it—that’s not exactly boxing money, but it’s a massive jump from those official payout numbers the California State Athletic Commission posts after fights out there. And keep in mind, Lewis isn't even a champ; he's just a huge star, so the UFC is clearly cutting him a decent PPV slice too.
The reason I care about this is because it proves one thing: when you're dealing with the big names, those publicly disclosed figures don't mean squat. It's not like the elite fighters are out there grinding for a measly couple hundred grand.

In a recent podcast, Bog John mentioned—likely regarding Francis—that most of those "issues" involving Franja get handled by having the fighter walk into the executive offices, walk out smiling, and then just keep their mouth shut and stay out of the headlines. 😁

The UFC will reward the fighters who play ball by adding various perks to their base contracts that the public never sees. What they aren't interested in, though, are any systemic changes that would drive up costs for the entire roster.

bluemason3 said:In a podcast, Bog John mentioned—likely regarding Francis—that most of those "issues" involving Franja get handled by bringing the fighter into an office full of safes; they walk out smiling, stay quiet, and don't make waves. 😁

The UFC will take care of the fighters who play ball by adding various bonuses to their base contracts that the public never sees. What they want to avoid is any systemic change that would drive up costs for the entire roster.

So, basically just like every other employer these days. 😁

Yep, that’s likely how they structured Izyju's new deal too. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to put together a decent contract for Francis by the end of the day.

Luke Thomas sat down with John Nash, who’s easily the smartest guy in the game when it comes to breaking down fighter contracts and paychecks:
Fighter pay Q & a

Noah Roberts46 said:This FNa is absolute garbage. 🤣

stormytiger4 said:Total trash, seriously.
I've actually thought about skipping this entire fight week just to protest how they keep stacking cards with zero interesting fights, but honestly, I doubt Dan would even notice my little protest, so why bother? 😂

brisktrucker51 said:Yeah, and the next one looks just as bad—Arlovski in the co-main. 😁

How does that even work? ESPN drops a massive bag on them, so now they have to put together an FN every single weekend no matter what? And that APEX setup with maybe 50 people watching is just painful.

Exactly! Jon Nash nailed it in his articles and especially during his guest spot on the Morning Kombat podcast.
We all watch UFC through the lens of PPV events, so we get pissed when they build a card with one decent fight and 24 nobodies in the rest. But the UFC's economic logic is different. They get paid by ESPN (and sponsors too) based on a set number of shows and fights per year. So, these dead events are actually huge money makers. They're basically just paying peanuts to fighters who make next to nothing—$12.5k per fight is the new floor, and I bet most guys on these cards are hovering right around there—while the big money comes in as a flat rate regardless of whether they're putting on stars or a bunch of unknowns.