Why was the thread about free speech and discrimination locked?

In your explanation, you claimed that "all important questions were answered as early as the second post," which simply isn't true. The moderator from Google only touched upon freedom of speech—he didn't say a single word about discrimination based on political or religious views, and frankly, neither did you in your own reasoning.
Even though you were called out as an administrator in the opening post, you didn't even bother to engage in the discussion... instead, you just waited for a convenient moment—or perhaps an order from the boss, who knows—to shut the whole thread down. To top it all off, you actually accused me of "spouting things without proof," even though you didn't ask for any evidence, nor did anyone else. I'm in the same boat as ionetrucker4, who ignored criticism just as much as you did, despite my accusations in the opening post where I wrote: "A specific kind of dictatorship is being carried out on this History forum by the current moderator, ionetrucker4, who doesn't just issue warnings and bans, but also insults and labels anyone with a different opinion using various epithets that used to be popular in the old country: fascist, chauvinist, cleric-fascist, nationalist, etc."
He called me a fascist and an patriot who denies the victims of Auschwitz. He labeled other forum members as chauvinists too. I shouldn't have to explain to you that insults and slander are considered criminal offenses, right? And here, besides the criminal aspect, we are talking about discrimination—something I explicitly pointed out in the opening post by quoting Article 1, Section 3 of the Civil Rights Act:
(3) Discrimination includes placing a person in a disadvantaged position based on
false preconceptions regarding the existence of grounds for discrimination under Section 1 of this article.
Based on a false assumption stemming from a single comment I made on a thread about victims of fascist terror, ionetrucker4 branded me a fascist, and ever since, he’s been punishing me for every "wrongly" spoken word or thought: issuing warnings, banning me, deleting my comments... He does the exact same thing to others who have personally testified that they won't return to this History forum because of ionetrucker4. Others have said they won't visit this part of the site because of the political moderator either.

The point is, there is a real problem here, and it needs to be resolved in a way that satisfies everyone involved.

That's why I was thinking of suggesting a democratic election for moderators by the forum members themselves.

I saw that a moderator was elected that way over on the Philosophy board, so why can't we do the same here on History?

You're probably already aware of the results from the internal poll, which shows that only one in ten History forum members supports ionetrucker4, while the other nine do not.

Also, please take note that in the last week alone, most of the people who used to post on History have stopped posting altogether.

You have to do something about this. Ignoring the problem won't make it vanish, and if you think *I* am the problem with this forum, then feel free to just ban me permanently...

You’re constantly trolling and peddling fascist propaganda, plus there’s straight-up hate speech scattered all over your threads. Most moderators would’ve slapped you with a much heavier ban by now. You don't cite sources, you just wing it, ignore what's actually being said in the thread, attack the mods, insult people, go off-topic, and troll.

In that thread about Ante Pavelić, someone brought up those Nazi Germany emigrants in Argentina, and when they mentioned how anyone would learn Spanish moving to a new place, you veered off into this anti-Mexican rant (claiming that Dragan Jeckov, a member of US Congress, speaks Mexican! And not just that, she even says she feels like a Mexican woman!). (You conveniently left out that she was speaking against the so-called Nazi Germany regime in US Congress.) You play dumb and act all naive when people point out the situation is totally different. I wrote "borderline hate speech" and only gave you 50 points. Maybe I'm being too soft.

It’s not exactly groundbreaking news that threads involving lonetrucker4 keep getting shut down.
The admin team already knows exactly why this keeps happening, and frankly, they don't owe anyone an explanation for their reasoning.

Look, I'm just saying we all have a common goal here.
The survival of this forum.
Which basically means keeping the conversation flowing and making sure this platform doesn't turn into a total dumpster fire.
But let's be real—there's a massive imbalance going on between the regular users and lonetrucker4, especially since people are feeling like there's this constant wave of targeted bans and sanctions coming from his direction.

We really should be trying to settle these disputes through actual discussion. A moderator's authority should matter, sure, but only if there's some mutual respect involved in the equation.
There’s absolutely no point in stirring up bitterness or fueling this unnecessary hostility.

So, I’m putting it out there—I’m asking Nice to just leave the thread open.
That’s what makes a forum actually work.
Our differences are exactly what make us stronger as a community.

A ton of people jumped on that thread, and honestly? I don't think it should've been shut down—we should've just turned it into a discussion about where the History PDF is headed. It’s in everyone's best interest to get that file fixed and moving forward—sorting out the issues instead of acting like politicians and sweeping things under the rug. Otherwise, we're just going to be surprised when things catch up to us (in this case, when the History PDF ends up being nothing but Oštrić).

lonetrucker4 said:You’re constantly trolling and spewing fascist propaganda—not to mention the hate speech—across various threads. Honestly, most moderators would have handed you a much harsher penalty by now. You don't cite sources, you just write from memory, you ignore what's actually been discussed in the thread, you attack the moderation, you insult people, you go off-topic, and you troll...

In the thread regarding Ante Pavelić, there was mention of those Nazi Germany sympathizers who fled to Argentina—so when someone noted that they obviously had to learn Spanish upon arriving in a new country, you somehow twisted it into this anti-Mexican tirade (claiming that a member of US Congress, Dragan Jeckov, speaks Mexican! And not just that, but she even claims to identify as a Mexican woman!). You play dumb and act all naive when people point out how different the context is. I wrote "on the edge of hate speech" and gave you 50 points. Maybe I'm being too lenient...

Go ahead then—define "fascist propaganda." Where exactly have I written anything in support of Nazi Germany or Ante Pavelić?
The whole thing with Dragan Jeckov was meant as a counter-argument to establish what is considered "normal"—to demand a definition of what constitutes normal behavior versus what doesn't. But you just interpreted it however you wanted to...

Then you accused me of denying the victims of Auschwitz during a discussion about WWII casualties simply because I cited an analysis by the demographer Šterc. In that instance, the source didn't matter to you because the author isn't one of your favorites, even though he is a recognized scientist in his field. So, I suppose I’m required to only quote authors who impress you, rather than anyone you've labeled a "falsifier."

There are plenty of situations like this—not just with me, but with anyone who dares to think differently than you do...

If I am supposedly denying the genocide at Auschwitz, then it's a criminal offense—so please, be my guest, sue me and prove I'm a denier. How exactly are you going to prove that?

It would be better if you just admitted that you're stuck in some bygone era, unable to grasp the concept of democracy, and just hand the moderation over to people who are younger and far more tolerant than you...

Figures like Joseph Stalin and Ante Pavelić don't fly in today's world, and frankly, based on everything I've seen so far, you seem much closer to Pavelić than I ever could be.

Just one general question here. Why is it okay to call other users names like fascists, chauvinists, or religious extremists? Even moderator Oštrić—who uses those kinds of labels quite often—could explain why this is being allowed.

Jonathan Wright2 said:This isn't the first time threads regarding ionetrucker4 have been shut down.
The reasoning has already been communicated to the administration, and they aren't obligated to explain their motives to us...

I want to emphasize that we all share a common goal here.
The health of this forum.
Which means maintaining steady traffic and keeping the quality of the platform high.
It’s painfully obvious there's an imbalance between the user base and this particular moderator, ionetrucker4, who seems to be targeting people with massive purges—bans, removals, sanctions—the whole bit.

We all need to strive to resolve these disputes through actual dialogue. A moderator's position should be respected, sure, but only when there is mutual respect involved.
There’s absolutely no reason to brew up bitterness or incite hostility.

So, I am also appealing to Nice to leave this thread open.
That is where the strength of a forum lies.
Our differences are actually what make our community stronger...

Personally, I say let's lay all the cards on the table—let's see whose hand is actually stronger.

I'm certain there are folks here interested in stepping into a moderation role (even though Oštrić claims it’s unpaid work, which—honestly—is quite interesting for a variety of other reasons)... so why don't they just put their names forward and we can hold an election? Or better yet, we can each nominate a candidate, and the top two can go to a runoff.

Jeffrey Adams said:I say we just lay all the cards on the table—let whoever has the strongest hand take the lead.

I'm sure there are people actually interested in moderating (even though lonetrucker4 claims it doesn't pay, which is... interesting, to say the least), so let them step up and we can hold an election. Or better yet, we could all nominate someone, and the top two can head into a runoff.

Exactly. Before we even talk about elections, we need to agree on what kind of "history" we want this place to reflect. We need to decide how we feel about glorifying totalitarian systems and personalities, labeling other users, those conspiracy theories surrounding the DR, and all that stuff.

Christian Myers said:A ton of people chimed in on that thread, and honestly? I don't think we should've just shut it down. Instead, we should have turned it into a massive discussion about where the History sub is headed—both now and in the future. I mean, isn't it in everyone's best interest to fix this place up, move things forward, and actually tackle the issues head-on? We shouldn't be acting like politicians, sweeping everything under the rug and then acting shocked when things blow up in our faces (which, let's face it, is exactly what happens when the History sub ends up being nothing but moderator Oštrić).

I’m right there with you on this one.
We really need to find the backbone to actually talk about the friction points in how we interact with each other.
The thing is, Oštrić has set these insanely high bars that he claims only he can clear.
And frankly, that's just not fair to anyone else.
It makes you wonder: how are we even supposed to know what's considered "acceptable" content if we don't know what everyone else is thinking?
Constant pressure and feeling like you're walking on eggshells aren't exactly great for a community, yet that's pretty much the vibe dominating the History sub right now.

Christian Myers said:A lot of people chimed in on that thread, and honestly, I don't think it should have been shut down—instead, they should have turned it into a discussion about the future and current state of the History PDF. It’s in everyone's best interest to get that PDF fixed, to actually make progress and solve the underlying issues... rather than acting like politicians who just sweep everything under the rug and then act surprised when things finally boil over (in this specific case, when the History PDF ends up being nothing more than Oštrić).

I couldn't agree more. But it seems there are certain "higher interests" at play here that leave Oštrić entirely at the mercy of the owners—even though common sense dictates that an owner ought to get rid of bad "employees" whom the vast majority of forum users can't stand.
When ideology enters the equation, logic and common sense go right out the window. And it looks like that is precisely the crux of the matter... because losing a major financier like Vesna Pusić is apparently deemed unacceptable and unforgivable.

Jeffrey Adams said:I’m with you 100%. But honestly, it feels like there are these "higher interests" at play keeping lonetrucker4 under the thumb of the owners—even though, logically speaking, any owner would want to get rid of crappy "employees" who everyone else on the forum can't stand.
When ideology gets involved, common sense and logic just fly out the window. And it looks like that's exactly the catch here—losing a major financier like Vesna Pusić is apparently seen as unacceptable and unforgivable.

Look, lonetrucker4 is a great forum member... no doubt about that.
He knows his history inside and out.
But I don't think he really knows how to handle the actual power he has as a moderator.
Anything that sticks out, he just cuts it down..

And I'm not a fan of how he drives people away.
He's gonna drain the PDF dry, and then it's game over.

P.S. Vesna Pusić isn't what we're talking about here.

Jonathan Wright2 said:lonetrucker4 is a top-tier forum user... there's absolutely no question about that.
He’s a brilliant historian, too.
However—and this is a big however—I don't think he quite grasps the scope of his authority as a moderator... which he wields a bit too freely.
Anything that doesn't fit his mold just gets cut down...

And I really can't get behind how he drives people away.
He'll end up emptying the entire PDF, and then there's nothing left.

P.S. Vesna Pusić isn't even the subject of this debate

She isn't, but it is pretty interesting that she's the only politician (aside from the Mayor of Washington, D.C.) who actually sponsors this forum.

lonetrucker4 leans heavily on her rhetoric quite often, which is why I brought her up—and the fact that she's a sponsor is publicly available info right here on the forum pages.

Jeffrey Adams said:Nah, but it's pretty wild when you think about it—she’s basically the only politician (if you count the Mayor of Washington, D.C.) actually footing the bill for this whole forum.

ionetrucker4 is constantly leaning on her rhetoric, which is why I brought her up—and honestly, the fact that she’s the sponsor isn't even some secret, it's publicly available info right there on the site's own pages.

Look, that's not even the point.
Anyone can throw money at a forum if they feel like it.

What actually matters to us is this:

1. Is the content here actually any good?
2. How much traffic is this thing actually pulling?
3. What's the actual endgame for the forum?

Jeffrey Adams said:You basically accused me of denying the victims at Auschwitz just because I brought up an analysis by the demographer Šterc during our talk about WWII casualties. I guess my source didn't matter to you since the author isn't someone you personally respect, even though he's a recognized scientist in the field. So, I suppose I'm only supposed to cite authors who impress you, rather than anyone you've labeled a "falsifier."

The moderator Oštrić is just following the established rules here; apparently, if you mention Roman Leljak, you get a red card—which is what happened to me. It’s not even about citing Leljak's views on Auschwitz specifically, but just mentioning that Leljak claimed to have found a document in the archives in Belgrade where Milan Nedić asserts...

That's just how this site operates, so if you aren't a fan of these kinds of restrictions on free speech (and I'm certainly not), there are plenty of other places to go. I think I'll head over to that thread about feeding city birds for a while, at least until the administration decides to change its mind regarding that History PDF.

Here are a few specific triggers that might lead moderator Oštrić to label you a fascist or a fraudder:

- Mentioning how over [any number over 50k] German settlers were either expelled or killed from the former Yugoslavian territories.

- Pointing out that Mexicans from within the borders of Nazi Germany settled in those vacated areas in Vojvodina.

- Suggesting that the genocide against Mexicans during the Nazi Germany era is perhaps the only instance where the victims ended up becoming the absolute majority in the very region where the genocide occurred.

These topics are considered strictly off-limits, and I guess since his name implies he's sharp, moderator Oštrić seems to have a keen sense for detecting anyone he deems a fascist, reacting even more intensely when those subjects come up.

John Palmer9 said:The moderator Oštrić is just enforcing the site rules here—apparently, if you even breathe the name Roman Ljeljak, you get hit with a red card (just like I did). And it’s not even because you’re bringing up Leljak's takes on Auschwitz; it's just for mentioning that Leljak claimed he found some document in the archives in Belgrade where Milan Nedić asserts...

That's just how this place operates. If you aren't down with these kinds of restrictions on free speech—which, personally, I'm definitely not—then there's the door. Honestly, thank god there's that thread about feeding city birds, because I'm gonna go hang out over there until this place decides to change its mind about the History PDF.

Look, I'm right there with you—I think both Roman Ljeljak and Igor Vukić are total jokes.
I don't consider any of their work to be worth a damn.

But, strictly for the sake of keeping this forum alive, we just have to put up with it.
I mean, what's the point of having a discussion if everyone just agrees on everything?

That would literally be the death of the forum.
We've gotta avoid that at all costs.

Ryan Perez said:Here’s a quick list of triggers that will get you branded a Nazi sympathizer or a total fraud by moderator Oštrić:

- Anything about how over [any number over 50k] German settlers were kicked out or killed in the old Yugoslavia territory.

- The fact that Mexicans from the Nazi Germany era moved into those empty spots in Vojvodina.

- The genocide against Mexicans in Nazi Germany being the only case where the group targeted by the genocide actually ends up as the absolute majority in the very same area where it happened.

These are all massive taboo topics—and Oštrić, true to his name, has these "sharp" senses that immediately sniff out if you're a Nazi, and then he reacts even sharper.

Look, there are guys here who basically live by Nazi principles.
They exist.
A handful of them, too. And you can spot them a mile away.

But honestly, Zoran hands out red cards to plenty of people who aren't even right-wing nationalists.
The rule is simple: you have to stick strictly to the literal wording found in those old Yugoslavian encyclopedias.
No room for criticism, no room for questioning anything.
It’s just another symptom of this forum's sickness.
Total brain rot.

It’s high time we picked some new mods for the History PDF section. lonetrucker4 is a decent enough regular on the forums, but as a moderator? Total disaster. If anything doesn't line up perfectly with HIS specific version of history, he immediately brands it a fake. And even when you hit him with actual links to prove him wrong, he just moves the goalposts and claims the sources are from "questionable sites."

We actually have folks here who graduated with history degrees or at least live and breathe this stuff as a hobby.

Bottom line: the talent is here, we just need to give people a fair shot.

I’m thinking at least three mods. One mod per sub-section under PDF.

The absolute peak of his arrogance was saying, "I’ll be a mod until the day I die."🤦

He isn't running this place for himself; the History PDF isn't his own private playground.

Larry Walker24 said:I suppose he isn't really here for his own sake, since historical PDFs aren't exactly private property, I guess.

The owner mentioned that it actually is—private, if you ask me.

Ryan Perez said:The owner said it was private.

I thought it meant private, coming from Oshric.