Tourism

Why are the new mods on the Tourism chat thread wiping out every single post that mentions Nasmijanonebo?

I'd love an explanation here. And please, don't just lock the thread.

Look, I have to clarify how things work around here because there seems to be some confusion. The moderators—meaning those handling our editorial policy and overall Forum direction—aren't allowed to jump into specific threads within a PDF to debate their decisions, and that goes for the main chat thread too. If you have questions regarding a moderator's ruling on a particular PDF, please just use private messages or bring it up right here in this PDF. Everything else is handled exactly the way it should be. Right here!.

Look, we respect where you're coming from, but since we're the ones actually using this PDF and living through it, we feel pretty entitled to tell you that your approach is just plain stupid.

NN served as a Moderator for Tourism for quite some time, and under her leadership, Tourism was easily one of the most efficiently run sub-forums on this Forum. Complaints about her work were rare, though she was frequently praised.

Can someone please walk me through the logic here:
- if we are using an off-topic thread to coordinate a temporary break from the Forum, which specific rule are we supposedly violating that justifies deleting our posts?
And why is it against the rules to tell others where we're headed? Is that actually the official policy of this site?

I am asking for someone to finally put a stop to the absolute meltdown rustydrifter10 is having over in the Tourism off-topic thread. The way they are going on about deleting posts is completely unhinged.

And honestly, thanks a lot for turning one perfectly calm thread into a total disaster. You guys are doing a stellar job. 👍

Look, let’s be clear: there's no point in dragging up old drama or trying to steer this conversation over to other forums—it’s pretty obvious why that won't work here. Beyond that, I’m going to keep deleting posts where people are being straight-up rude or just looking for a fight, including any quotes of those comments. It’s completely unnecessary to crank up the tension and start a massive blowout when there's zero reason to. Everything else in the PDF is laid out perfectly fine, and we can absolutely keep discussing things right here on this thread if everyone would just stop being so stubborn and let things settle down. Neither L3go nor I came here with any bad intentions; our whole goal is to find a few solid moderators who can step up and take care of the tourism section the way it deserves, and you can actually help us reach that goal if you want to. If you don't want to help, then please, just stay out of the way. We haven't handed out any bans so far, aside from the one situation involving Mickey—and he knows exactly why that happened—because we are genuinely trying to talk to you. We get it, change is hard and people don't always like it, and we have plenty of empathy for that, but for this to actually work, that respect needs to go both ways.

The tension surrounding that PDF was brought here by the two of you; we didn't create it.
We have every right to agree on taking some time away. If you feel our tone is being awkward 🙄 then by all means, you be the one to write down where we were and why we left. There is nothing wrong with notifying the rest of the forum members.

Your sense of cooperation is truly abysmal.

Henry Hernandez7 said:We respect your opinion, but as users and active participants here, we feel entitled to tell you that this approach is just plain stupid.

Without knowing the specifics or the underlying reasons, you can't really judge—and you won't be getting those details because we aren't going to air our dirty laundry in public.
Just saying. 😳

Subversive deals happen via DMs and emails all the time; it’s not the first or last time someone got kicked out for trying to start an alternative forum. I’ve been through those phases myself, so I get it. From a user's perspective, things look different when you can afford to be emotional or reactive. But the admin team has to weigh everything against a much more complicated reality. It’s a broader view. All of that said, we aren't going to tolerate public sabotage. Plus, advertising other sites—let alone other forums—is already against the house rules for business reasons, regardless of what’s happening right now.

Let’s be honest here... the real motive is always some kind of personal grudge disguised as "you have no idea what's happening behind the scenes." If it were anything else, the reaction wouldn't be this extreme. But fine, whatever.

Calling a simple agreement to take a break "subversive" or "sabotage"? Claiming we are actually causing harm? Seriously? Is this really how an adult writes? 😁
Nobody is asking to promote other forums, though people naturally do mention them. And then those posts get deleted.

I should probably remind everyone that someone here didn't hesitate to call another member a fascist. Just take a look at the types of posts being scrubbed and think about that for a second.

The way you treat the rest of us forum members is pathetic and frankly shameful.
I've had enough. I've said my piece.

nasmijanonebo is basically the patron saint of the tourism PDF.
She’s stepped up and helped countless people here with her info more times than I can count.
It’s a real shame things have reached this point. If she actually decides to walk away, that PDF is going to take the biggest hit.

rustydrifter10 said:Look, you can't go inciting riots or dragging other forums into this—that should be obvious enough for everyone here. Besides, I’m nuking any posts where people are being straight-up rude or just looking for a fight, including quotes of those posts, because they just ramp up the tension for no damn reason. There’s zero need for the drama. The rest of the PDF is fine, and we can talk about this thread too if people would just stop being stubborn and chill out. Neither L3go nor I came here with bad intentions; we just want to find some solid moderators to handle the tourism sector properly, which is what that PDF deserves. You guys can actually help us if you want to. If you don't, then please, just stay out of our way. We haven't handed out any bans yet, except for Mickey—and he knows exactly why that happened—because we're trying to communicate with you. We get it, you hate change, and we're being understanding about it, but this has to be a two-way street if we're going to make this work.

Enough with the melodrama, Nica.
You were basically cheering on biased critiques and politically motivated hits against NN, and now you're acting all high and mighty, like you're fit to moderate.
For me, it was that one incident about a month and a half ago that really opened my eyes. It made me realize you don't give a damn about digging into the actual core of a problem or even looking at the facts of a specific case—which, by the way, was super easy to verify—you just judge based on whatever someone's subjective opinion happens to be.
And when the people at the top of the pyramid are like that, well, you know what to expect from the rest of the structure...

As someone who drops by the Tourism subforum every now and then—though I wouldn't exactly call myself a regular contributor—I find myself joining in on the praise for our moderator, nasmijanonebo... though, in all honesty, a change in leadership there was always going to be expected, and perhaps even inevitable...

Who is actually to blame when things go sideways... It feels like we're being pushed toward a destination that simply isn't meant for us... I suppose I should have seen it coming... It’s funny how things work out that way, isn't it? You think you have a handle on the situation, everything seems to be moving along quite smoothly, and then suddenly, there's a clone. Or rather, a replica of what you thought was reality... it's all a bit disorienting, really. One moment you're standing on solid ground, and the next, you realize the foundation was just a very convincing imitation... anyway, I digress...

Richard Palmer90 said:Enough with the pathetic theatrics from Nica.
You’ve consistently championed nothing more than biased critiques and politically motivated attacks against NN. And now, let's hand those self-proclaimed "moral authorities" the reins to moderate. I'm sure they'll do a stellar job.
It only took one specific incident about six weeks ago to finally open my eyes. I realized just how little you actually care about digging into the heart of a problem or even objectively weighing the facts of a particular case—a case that, frankly, was easy enough to verify if one actually bothered to look. Instead, you simply pass judgment based on someone else's subjective opinion.
When the people at the very top of the pyramid are built that way, you really shouldn't be surprised by the shape of the entire structure. It’s a predictable outcome, isn't it? If the foundation is flawed and the leadership is fundamentally broken, the rest of the organization—no matter how much you try to polish the surface—will inevitably reflect those same systemic failures. You can't expect stability or integrity from a system when the architects themselves lack both.

Be a gentleman and clarify what’s written in bold, if it isn't too much trouble.
I honestly believe that adopting such an approach would make you come across as a far more competent interlocutor, if nothing else.

bluecyclist64 said:Look, man, be a decent human being and explain what you mean by that bolded part, if it’s not too much trouble.
I mean, it’d make you look like a way more competent conversationalist, at the very least.

The whole thread from that PDF titled 'NN Moderation on tourism' started by Tiziana—the one about Budapest that Nica shut down.
Any objective, independent observer (someone just quoting facts) can see that Lizzie_M went off the rails with the Terror Haz stuff. Instead of actually flexing that NN challenges the relevance of the source, or jumping in to scrub subjective political takes, she gets called out for attacking Lizzie while letting people who agree with her stay untouched.
Since nobody wants to poison the BP tourism thread completely—not my business over there, but I'm asking here—is it really necessary to prove Lizzie isn't right? I don't get an answer to that; instead, the thread just gets locked to protect a few forum ladies who trashed NN despite not knowing much about the actual topic.
So, if the point of locking things down without any real arguments is valid, then it’s just as valid to say we should give credit to that Canadian artist rather than following whatever is written in the Hun constitution.
If a country's constitution includes a few pages giving a harsh critique of the socialist era and strictly forbids it—just like it does for anyone who was politically active back then—it’s totally out of line for Terror HAZU to claim it’s partisan or to try and measure how much is about communism versus fascism.
And doing all this while locking things down from an American perspective, having this "us vs them" mindset about socialism and fascism, trying to weigh "which evil is greater"... it’s just wrong.

Look, I'm an American through and through, but I’m saying we read the Hun constitution so we can actually make a politically relevant judgment about the Hun—or in this specific case, evaluate whether something is just party propaganda or not. Is the Constitution supposed to be a tool for political propaganda?!

This has absolutely nothing to do with any of that, so I would ask that we refrain from throwing in interpretations of those old, settled cases.

William Bennett53 said:Look, this has absolutely zero to do with anything else. Can we please stop trying to drag those old, settled cases back into this? Stop with the wild interpretations.

So, bluecyclist64 decided to call me out, demanding I explain why certain criticisms aren't objective, so I tried my best to give a quick breakdown.
The problem is, when a situation gets "settled" by just ignoring the actual facts and the logic of who’s right and who isn't, you end up in that annoying spot where people start attacking the moderators while basically shielding the trolls on the forum.

Well, in this particular instance, I find myself once again requesting that the members of this forum refrain from dragging up their tired truths regarding old and irrelevant cases.