2014 Canadian GP - Montreal (June 8)

ruggedhawk20 said:Among the contenders, only Pironi suffered an injury, while the tragic loss of Villeneuve was the only fatality (though we might as well set aside the Palettia situation, as even if he had survived, he wouldn't have been a decisive factor in the title race)

All the other championship hopefuls made it to the end of the season healthy and sound.

That would be Piquet, Lauda, Prost, Mansell, Alboreto, and Arnoux.

The true "problem" of the 1982 season wasn't Villeneuve or Pironi. The real issue was that Ferrari, Renault, McLaren, Williams, Brabham, and even Tyrrell were all genuinely competitive.

At the start of the year, Prost was dominating in the Renault. In many ways, Prost was the greatest loser of that season because he was the one who truly should have walked away with the title. The Renault was actually a superior car to the Ferrari. Unfortunately, during that 1982 campaign, Prost seemed far more preoccupied with Larrousse's wife than with his driving. So, strictly speaking, the Renault was better than the Ferrari—perhaps by a hair, but better nonetheless. As for the naturally aspirated cars, they were all right there in the mix. McLaren and Williams were the class of the field, followed closely by Tyrrell and the Brabham that ran on Ford atmospheric engines; meanwhile, those running the BMW turbos actually produced something even faster than the McLaren or the Williams. If I were to rank them, my order would look something like this:

1) Renault
2) Ferrari
3) McLaren - Ford
4) Brabham - BMW
5) Williams - Ford
6) Brabham - Ford
7) Tyrrell - Ford

These were all cars that tasted victory during the 1982 season, plus the Lotus—though I won't include them in my list since, when looking at things realistically, that car just wasn't a true contender that year.

Furthermore, no single driver managed to win more than two races, either by count or by frequency. It is quite an anomaly. No other season in history has ever seen such a wide dispersion of winners as 1982. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the death of Villeneuve—who, let’s be honest, was never quite destined to be a world champion anyway—nor does it have anything to do with Pironi's broken legs.

It stems from the fact that seven different competitive teams—including the Lotus—all managed to secure wins throughout the 1982 season.

Nico Rosberg didn't clinch the title because Villeneuve and Pironi were out of the picture; he won because he simply accumulated the most points.

And you can rest assured that even if Villeneuve and Pironi had both reached the end of the season unscathed, neither of them would have become the champion.

The title would have gone to either Prost or Rosberg.

And don't let Pironi's 39 points deceive you—in a hypothetical scenario where Villeneuve lived (and Pironi remained whole), Villeneuve would have likely taken at least 10 of those 39 points.

In that case, Pironi would have finished that imaginary season with 29 plus the 11 he would have earned after Hockenheim, totaling 40.

Bravo, Joe!

Jason Campbell70 said:Either you are the fastest, or you are a loser.

Or, perhaps, you are Keke Rosberg—the only man whose primary title favorites suffer injuries or death, allowing him to snatch the championship with a single victory.

How many races did Rosberg lead during 1982?
And what is the first thing that comes to mind when I say blue and red?

Jason Campbell70 said:We've seen this before.

It seems there's this consensus that Hamilton is mentally unstable and a total choker.
Actually, it was Rosberg who cracked during those last two GPs.

Not really—but it’s pretty obvious that the little aristocrat is going to milk every single one of Hamilton's DNFs for all they're worth. After all, Hamilton needed five or six races just to make up for Australia; now he'll need just as many to recover from Canada. Throw in another Monaco, and Hamilton's certainly got his work cut out for him if he wants to live up to the hype. Meanwhile, Rosberg is doing exactly what's expected of him, isn't he? Maybe even too perfectly for some people's liking.

Red Bull is basically going to be Hamilton's biggest ally at this point.

swifttiger75 said:Not really, though it’s pretty obvious that the little aristocrat will capitalize on every single one of Hamilton's DNFs to the absolute limit.

LOL.

swifttiger75 said:Nico Rosberg is doing exactly what he's supposed to do, isn't he? Maybe even too perfectly for some people's taste!

Rosberg picks up the scraps and wins whenever Hamilton drops out.
He's perfect at that, and that's his ceiling.

swifttiger75 said:Not quite, though it seems perfectly obvious that our little aristocrat will be looking to squeeze every bit of value out of every single one of Hamilton's DNFs. After all, didn't Hamilton need about five or six races just to recover from what happened in Australia? Now, he’ll likely need just as many to make up for Canada, and with Monaco still on the horizon, Hamilton certainly has his work cut out for him if he intends to live up to those massive expectations! Meanwhile, isn't Rosberg doing exactly what is expected of him? Perhaps, for some, even a bit too perfectly!

In all seriousness, the team's 👍

Jason Campbell70 said:Nico Rosberg just picks up the scraps—he wins only when Lewis Hamilton drops out.
That’s his whole game plan, really; he hits his absolute ceiling there.

Isn't that just textbook perfection? Exactly what you're looking for... ☕

Jason Campbell70 said:LOL.

Nico Rosberg just picks up the scraps—he wins when Hamilton DNFs.
That’s his specialty, and honestly, that's his ceiling.

Slowly but surely... we get there. ☕

Jason Campbell70 said:Not gonna happen.

Basically—I just don't have the energy to explain something crystal clear, especially when I'd be arguing against logic that defeats itself.

Are you seriously suggesting that Prost, Piquet, Arnoux, Lauda, and Mansell all just coincidentally died or got wrecked!? That’s why Nico Rosberg grabbed the title.

Or maybe Rosberg just slapped them all right in the face! 😍

Jason Campbell70 said:What paradigm are you even talking about?

Stick to arguments, not ad hominem attacks.

The idea that Fernando Alonso was just cruising through 2012 to collect easy points is a complete myth. It’s pure nonsense born from a lack of understanding. We can dive into the specifics on the appropriate thread.

graniteharbor502 said:You, me, and Tibi all know Vettel would have taken the win if he hadn't gotten stuck behind Hülkenberg. Besides, wasn't the German ahead of the Australian in qualifying?

I'm not impressed by Vettel's performance this season (not by a long shot), and certainly not here at the GP Canada. From lap 27 onwards, Ricci absolutely tore him apart during those pit cycles....

Vettel wasn't any better or faster yesterday.

And in the end, after Ricci sorted out his issue, it took Vettel three laps to do the exact same thing......

jadeseal7 said:Isn't that just academic? Exactly your style... ☕

Are you suggesting being "academic" means being slower than the competition?

ruggedhawk20 said:Are you implying that Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet, René Arnoux, Niki Lauda, and Nigel Mansell all died or got injured at once? Is that why Keke Rosberg snatched the title?

Or did Rosberg just... slap them all around? 😍

Think about it. When was the last race Didier Pironi drove? And how many races did it take for Rosberg to overtake him?
And which race was Rosberg’s first career win—and his only win that entire season?
Just one single win out of five total in a nine-season F1 career.
A real driver, clearly.
An aristocrat, obviously. 😍

steelmaker83 said:Regarding the idea that Fernando Alonso was just coasting through the second half of 2012 to farm points.

Alonso was picking up points in the second half of that season because he had no other choice.
Both Red Bull Racing and McLaren were simply faster cars; he took what he could get.

In the end, he lost the championship.

steelmaker83 said: That's just pure nonsense born from a lack of intelligence. We can dive deeper into the proper thread.

Moderators?

Jason Campbell70 said:Fernando Alonso was just picking up points in the second half of that season because he had nothing else left to go after.
Both Red Bull Racing and McLaren were simply faster cars, so he took whatever he could get.

And in the end, he blew the championship.

Well, now you're being more precise. There’s a massive difference between someone picking up points because it's their only option, versus driving conservatively by choice. In 2012, Fernando Alonso wasn't collecting points because he decided to play it safe; he did it because it was the only way he could compete. Big difference.

Jason Campbell70 said:Moderators?

What do you mean "moderators"? Don't start whining now... where is this nonsense even coming from?

Since that thread is locked, I have to move the conversation here. Just making sure this doesn't get buried. So:

stormybadger8 said:Get it through your head: there is no theory where old tires run faster laps than new ones during those first couple of laps...
What happened with Massa was an anomaly that almost never occurs. The reason wasn't Massa himself; it was Bottas dealing with engine issues and traffic.
For heaven's sake, if old tires were actually faster than new ones, nobody would bother changing them in the first place.

Furthermore, in Formula 1, you overtake the car ahead by pitting earlier, not by staying out a lap or two longer. :facepalm2:
There is zero logic behind being faster on old rubber than on new rubber, unless the guy coming out of the pits gets stuck behind a slower car or hits some other issue.

And then we have the Canada incident...

steelmaker83 said:Now you're being more precise. There is a massive difference between someone picking up points because it's their only option, versus driving conservatively by choice. In 2012, Fernando Alonso wasn't just grabbing points because he wanted to; he was doing it because it was all he could manage. That's a huge distinction.

Go back and read my original post.
It was fairly concise.

steelmaker83 said:What about the moderators? Don't start whining at me now... where is this nonsense coming from?

And again, for the third time.
"Nonsense", "stupidity", and various other insults.

Arrogant, yet completely unsupported.

steelmaker83 said:Zero hope for Vettel. He’s gotta beat his own teammate first before he even thinks about touching those two in the Mercedes

And he’s slower than all three of them anyway.

Total joke.

Also, since the thread is locked, how many anomalies did you guys spot in this race?

That's exactly why there's zero hope—because of his teammate.☕
It’s what the fans haven't been able to wrap their heads around for years. They’re so blind they could start a fan club called "The Mole Club" and still be clueless.🤣

If hala ako RB actually manages to outpace the Mercedes in terms of pure power and speed, then having a Ricc like this is a massive win for Vettel. It's a gold-plated gift.☕
zakaj ??? What kind of nonsense are you talking about?
Because, bottom line, even a Ricc in a decent car can regularly beat the Mercedes drivers...
So, looking at the points gained from the win, it’s a +10 difference because of him, not +7. And if you factor in Lewis Hamilton, we're talking +13 compared to Nico Rosberg.☕

As for Vettel needing to beat Ricc first? That’s actually a damn good thing for him. If he can't pull it off, well, then he doesn't deserve the title anyway.

Jason Campbell70 said:Go back and read my original post.
It was pretty concise.

No. You weren't concise. Your syntax implies something else entirely:

So how did "brilliant" Fernando Alonso manage '10 and/or '12?
Alonso again—he was just picking up points at the end of the '12 season.
He essentially put himself in a spot where he wasn't in control of his own fate.

Then you clarified later:

Alonso spent the second half of that season scavenging points because he had no other choice.
Red Bull Racing and McLaren were simply faster cars, and he took what he could get.
And in the end, he blew the title.

See the difference?

Jason Campbell70 said:And here we go again, for the third time.
"Stupidity", "lack of intelligence", and all the usual insults.

You're arrogant, and you have nothing to back it up.

Arrogant? No, I'm being honest.
Backing it up? Everything I said is a fact. It’s not my fault you weren't clear.

stormybadger8 said:And there’s zero hope to be found in having a teammate either☕
which is something the crowd hasn't been able to grasp for years; they're so blind they could easily start a fan club called "The Moles"🤣

If hala ako RB actually manages to outpace Mercedes in terms of raw speed and performance, then having a guy like Ricci as a teammate is a massive bonus for Vettel—basically a gift wrapped in gold.☕
zakaj ??? What kind of nonsense are you talking about?
Because, for starters, a guy like Ricci in a decent car is capable of consistently beating the Mercedes drivers...
So, the gap in race wins comes down to him being +10 instead of +7... and once you factor in Hamilton, we're looking at +13 compared to Rosberg.☕

Besides, if Vettel needs to beat Ricci to prove himself, that's actually a huge advantage for him. If he can't pull it off, then fine—he doesn't deserve the title anyway.

You could have just summed all of that up in one sentence (and I won't go as far as saying you should have used the plural...)

darkmarlin16 said:Red Bull Racing is going to be Hamilton's biggest ally.

Exactly the opposite.🤣
If Red Bull Racing actually manages to overtake the Mercedes guys, then Red Bull will be leading and Hamilton will be trailing behind...
So by that logic, Red Bull Racing's main ally would be Hamilton, since he'll be busy constantly outperforming Nico Rosberg... at least until their brakes decide to quit on them or whatever.

stormybadger8 Asks:
If Red Bull Racing actually manages to outpace Mercedes when it comes to pure power and speed, then even a driver like Ricci becomes a massive bonus for Vettel—a gift worth its weight in gold.☕

In what universe? Can Red Bull Racing actually overtake Mercedes when it comes to raw power and car speed?

steelmaker83 said:I’m not exactly blown away by Vettel's performance this season (not even close), and definitely not here at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. From lap 27 until everyone else pitted, Ricci absolutely tore it up...

Vettel wasn't any better or faster yesterday.

And honestly, after Ricci cleared Perez, it took Vettel three whole laps to do the same thing...

Maybe it's time you start watching actual professional broadcasts instead of this garbage on those amateur Max GP channels...

The only reason Ricci overtook Perez is because Perez was stuck without his 160 HP—basically, he had no KERS boost. Everyone else was just staring at his bumper because Perez was dealing with all that car bullshit.
The only reason Ricci "demolished" Vettel is because Vettel's pit stop was slower than Ricci's, plus they screwed him over with that premature pit call while trying to cover Bottas and getting stuck behind a slow Hulkenberg.