$47M for a single referendum? What's the deal with this headline?

crimsonjackal63 said:A new thread has popped up, which overlaps quite a bit with the existing one regarding the "In the name of the family" referendum costing $8 million.

Since there's already a poll on this thread, I suggest merging them. Let's rename the new one:
The "In the name of the family" referendum—democracy wins, at an $8 million price tag.

You just narrowly avoided a strike for violating the pdf rule, specifically article 4, which would have landed you a three-day ban via point accumulation.

Duplicating threads (starting new topics about subjects that already have an active topic).

Your thread is locked, and tomorrow, it's headed for the trash.

If we’re being totally honest here, the headline really ought to be: A $47 million referendum "In the name of the family" just because the people in charge decided to ignore the Constitution altogether...

Charles Fox10 said:You just narrowly dodged a red card for violating the pdf rule—specifically article 4—which would've landed you a three-day ban via point accumulation.

Your thread is locked, and tomorrow it’s heading straight to the trash.

And what exactly is wrong with this thread?

The "In the name of the family" referendum — a win for democracy.
Direct democracy means the people hold actual power (demos). It's when citizens can set aside their own selfish interests—and groups can push past their narrow agendas—for the sake of the common good.
Then there's indirect or representative democracy. Direct democracy relies on heavy citizen involvement and engagement in political decision-making. It can also function as a component within a representative system. Lately, we've seen the concept of "New Democracy" emerge, which uses online referendums as a tool for direct participation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

Finally, here in the USA, we have a chance to participate in direct democracy, and I think that's fantastic for developing democratic processes—especially since we're starting to see those nasty trends where party politics takes over everything (where all the real power gets concentrated in political parties).

So, we should show up to the referendum, cast our votes, and celebrate democracy.
Are you planning to vote in the upcoming referendum?
Will you be checking "Yes" or "No"?

p.s. If the moderators want to (for instance, if Charles Fox10 wants to), I could merge this thread with the existing one about the referendum so we have the poll available—we could even rename the thread:
The "In the name of the family" referendum on Dec 1st—a victory for democracy, at a total cost of $8 million.

When I started this thread, I knew there might be some overlap, which is why I immediately suggested merging it with the other similar thread—especially since the poll would fit right in.

On the flip side, the current thread has already covered the cost of the referendum plenty of times, so there was absolutely no need to merge them or change the title.
You know that perfectly well.

Therefore, changing the title feels like a blatant, intentional provocation—so maybe we could all share those red cards you mentioned.

The "In the name of the family" referendum on Dec 1st—a victory for democracy
Let whoever it bothers suffer...

Charles Fox10 said:It wouldn't be quite right to merge these threads if doing so meant one of the contributors didn't get credit for their input.

And I really am curious about how the projected cost of this referendum is suddenly an insult to our intelligence or common sense, especially when there have been so many discussions about how democracy isn't free... you can find plenty of articles in American newspapers, both print and online, detailing the actual price tag of holding a referendum, yet now, somehow, it's treated as an affront to democratic principles and logic.
My own take on what democracy means and how common sense works isn't intended to offend anyone, because I fully grasp that these things come with a price, but well, that’s just my perspective...

The American press isn't some ultimate benchmark for whether a democracy is functioning correctly.

And honestly, what kind of meaningful contribution is being made if someone is just performing a "copy-paste" of a figure straight out of those news reports?

So, you say democracy costs money?

Well, at least we're measuring that cost in dollars spent rather than in human lives lost...

Yet, I don't see people constantly highlighting the "cost" when discussing totalitarian regimes...

I suppose fifty million dollars is considered a higher price than, say, a hundred thousand human lives...

Focusing so heavily on the expense of letting the people express their will is, frankly, quite distasteful.

Honestly, the mods could do us all a favor—maybe on the thread about Stipe Mesić, they could just slap the actual annual cost of his lifestyle right in the title? And while they're at it, why not add the current unemployment rate in the USA to the discussion about Zoran Milanović’s administration?

Or just look at a topic like "Josip Perković"—and you can start counting all those state-sponsored hits he actually pulled the strings on...

crimsonjackal63 said:The moderators could really step things up—for instance, on that thread about Stipe Mesić, why not just add the annual price tag of his lifestyle right into the title? Or regarding Zoran Milanović’s administration... maybe include the actual unemployment numbers for the US. Just some food for thought...

You see, you hit the nail on the head there. I’m certain Charles Fox10 will agree with this—he doesn't strike me as the hypocritical type—especially considering his own previous comments... which actually apply perfectly to this whole situation with Milanović and the unemployment numbers:

I’m genuinely curious how anyone can argue that the cost of this referendum somehow insults our intelligence or common sense—especially when it’s been stated countless times before that democracy isn't free...

Look, it doesn't offend anyone's intelligence or common sense—and the unemployment numbers alone have been cited more than once already. It’s great that you pointed out how these things don't insult basic logic... so I assume there won't be any issue if we pair the topic of Milanović with the actual unemployment figures? 🤷

Just more attempts to push that group to the fringes, straight out of a Goebbels playbook.
I guess this is just what life looks like these days. Who actually gives a damn about being neutral when so many people are reading this crap anyway? -.-

Anthony Jackson2 Asks:
I agree, the headline should be: The "In the name of the family" referendum—or rather, how the far-right and the church are attempting to drag us back to the dark ages of the North America.

It’s actually quite interesting when you look at how countries like Canada, Poland, Lithuania, and Latvia handle this. They already have these types of provisions baked right into their constitutions, yet none of them required a public referendum to get it done. What happened over there is exactly the kind of thing that wouldn't happen here in the States for at least another hundred years— It’s the same story all over again—their administration pushed that exact provision straight into the Constitution..

That’s enough about the North America.

☕

To be honest, regarding the subject of this thread, I’ve actually tried to point out this issue before, but it hasn't really gained any traction.
The issue here is that by obsessing over the cost, they’re essentially trying to discredit the entire referendum. It’s pretty obvious what they're doing, isn't it?

It’s funny looking back. When the referendum to join the EU was happening, nobody seemed to care about the actual price tag. Back then, the narrative was all about how it would be this grand "festival of democracy" or some other idealistic nonsense. No one really wanted to talk about what it was actually going to cost us.

What’s even more fascinating is looking at a place like Switzerland. They hold referendums every few months, so nobody really breaks a sweat over the cost of running them. It’s actually something they take pride in. It doesn't even matter what kind of questions end up on the ballot; they just embrace the process.

Charles Fox10 said:You just dodged a massive fine for violating the PDF rule. Under Article 4, you should have been hit with enough points to trigger a three-day ban.

The thread is locked, and it's getting tossed in the trash tomorrow.

If the topic already existed, why were you merging threads and titles in the first place?

And why didn't you lock this new thread—the one with the number in the title—and scrap it too?

Either stop merging everything... stick to the rules, or at least be consistent with how you play the game.
Pick a side. It's time to decide. 🙂

You asked, you got your answer, and as far as I'm concerned, I have nothing left to add.

Charles Fox10 said:You already asked and got your answer, so I don't have anything else to add.

Does "answering" include just talking to yourself?

You’ve given two contradictory answers—which one am I supposed to believe?

The one where starting a new thread alongside an existing one means closing the old one and tossing it in the trash
or the one
where opening a related thread leads to merging the topics and titles?

Make up your mind. It's time. 😁

Charles Fox10 said:You asked, you got an answer, and frankly, I have nothing left to add to this.

Chuck, seriously—don't be contradictory. Let's not play dumb here; we all know exactly what's happening: there's a blatant attempt to undermine the referendum.

Anyway, I'm working on a piece regarding Milanovic and how unemployment figures impact politics. I assume you'll follow your own little rules then—merging the topics and slapping the unemployment numbers right into the headline just so you don't end up being, in your own words, "someone slighted for their contribution"? 😕

The moderator already laid out the reasoning behind the title, so I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Whether they include specific figures in future posts is entirely up to the mods and how they decide to handle things. There really isn't any need for all this unnecessary drama over it.