Bad Boys - Part IV

Joseph Scott said:Everyone's decked out in black, man. Paramilitary organization flags, Thompson submachine guns, AKs, all gathered right in the middle of Times Square... just toss a grenade and take down the gang. We aren't letting anyone take over while we're still breathing. Ultras stick together; we're all brothers here.🤣 🤣

🤣🤣

https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.ne...39199692_n.jpg

FFK vs. Strømmen, Nov 3, 2013.
Norway 2nd Division

Joseph Scott said:It’s just a sea of black clothing, man. You’ve got the flags, the gear, everyone gathered at Times Square, ready to throw down against the gangs... we aren't letting anyone take over while we're still breathing. From one hardcore fan to another, we're all brothers here.🤣 🤣

Before all that, there was a gathering out by the headwaters of the Colorado River.🙂

The Bad Boys won't be allowed into Eindhoven from Wednesday 6.11 through Friday 8.11. One sighting and they're headed straight to jail...

''Every pub and local hangout in Eindhoven will be shuttered this Thursday.''

😍

Jesse Doyle3 said:Everyone should just wear black, right?

I’m wearing green sneakers.😢

Reading that article in the New York Times and seeing how their media portrays us... it honestly made me want to gag.

Timothy Allen60 said:The Bad Boys will not be able to enter Eindhoven from Wednesday 6.11 Till Friday 8.11. If they spot them they will go directly to jail.

'' All pubs etc. in Eindhoven will be closed on Thursday ''

😍

Source?

Jesse Campbell said:Sure, but it’s just incredibly hard in the North America (and honestly, everywhere else too) to rally 10,000 people against a government and a mafia that basically runs football here. Just ask the hardcore fans.

And look, back in the 90s, you knew damn well there weren't even 100 people showing up at away games. That’s why I find it weird when you write about stuff that simply doesn't work in the real world. You can only get 10,000 people out if you're just passing around bubbles, waving flares and smoke bombs, and staying quiet instead of actually pushing back against the board and the establishment. Ask the Deli how many of them showed up in the 90s when they were actually acting as an opposition to Slobodan Milošević—which was, in my opinion, their only bright spot.

And this isn't just limited to sports fans. When Ante Gotovina and Branimir Markač were handed those first-instance sentences, maybe 2,000 people protested. But when they were finally cleared? 200,000 people were out celebrating. ☕

Well, yeah, obviously it doesn't apply just to fans, but this is a fan forum, so that's what I'm writing about.
We're screwed. We're a moronic, idiot nation where nobody gives a damn about anyone else's problems until we're all drowning ourselves. And once we are finally underwater, instead of actually trying to fix things, our habit is just to point fingers at everyone else.

rizla-wb-1950 said:So, why didn't the Boys react right at the start? Probably because they're obsessed with Miami's Hajduk. Don't take this the wrong way, just my two cents, but here's the proof... That same guy Zdravko Mamić is out there celebrating 100 years of Dinamo, while you guys claim to hate him. If neither BBB nor ZZD spoke up to say this monster is a liar falsifying history and founding dates, then why the silence?

Why would they care when Dinamo is the direct successor to Građanski's history? It’s pretty rude to argue about stuff from the 1800s when I actually have family members who swear by it—people who lived through it, university professors, intellectuals, folks who actually knew what was happening. Not some random shepherds in the Appalachians. But whatever, let's not get sidetracked.

The second, bigger reason is that Mamić turned this into his own little private party. He’s trying to bury the fact that he's a notorious criminal and shouldn't even be at Dinamo by throwing out a distraction that doesn't matter right now.

They dropped a smoke bomb on purpose. We ignored the bait and kept hitting the same targets we always do. Kuiš?

analogheron19 said:Of course this doesn't just apply to fans, but since this is a fan forum, I'm talking about them.
We're screwed. Just a bunch of morons who don't give a damn about anyone else's problems until we're drowning ourselves, and even then, instead of actually trying to fix things, we just default to blaming everyone else.

Sadly, that's just how we are. Shallow and stupid.

I always look at the Brits. Right after he won World War II, they basically told Churchill to screw off. Less than two months after the war ended in Europe!

The guy lost the election fair and square. Meanwhile, back here, that idiot Josip Broz Tito ruled for 35 years by feeding people fairy tales. But the Americans? Boom, screw you, your platform sucked. 🙏

Imagine how far ahead they really are...

Jesse Campbell said:And it’s not just about the fans, I mean, when Ante Gotovina and Branimir Markač were hit with those first-instance convictions, there were maybe 2,000 people out protesting, but once they were finally cleared, I think like 200,000 people were out celebrating. ☕

I guess an even better example would be when Gotovina was arrested. Like, should I just quit my job because of some protests? Because honestly, looking at how many of us actually showed up, how long the protest lasted, and what actually got accomplished... nothing happened, right?! After an hour, there were maybe 20 people left standing 🙂
And regarding those guys, you know, some random neutral guy from the North America writes a couple of posts saying they're total trash, or this or that, and then he just disappears, and suddenly there's you thirty people spending the next ten pages venting about them, arguing over whether they're this way or that, and just fighting about it endlessly. I think the worst part is how some people just casually side with Mexicans who claim they're fighting against agents. To me, they all seem the same—ultras, thugs, losers, cops, liberals, war criminals... a Mexican is a Mexican, period. I don't know if this is enough to get someone banned or if it counts as hate speech, I guess, but I'm never going to respect them, no matter what the situation is.

Jesse Campbell said:Sure, but it’s just damn hard in the States (and everywhere else, really) to get 10,000 people out there fighting against a government and a mafia running the whole football scene. Just ask the hardcore fans.

And back in the 90s, you know perfectly well there weren't even 100 people showing up for away games. Why write about something that clearly doesn't work in reality? You only get 10,000 people if you're just waving smoke bombs and flares instead of actually taking on the board and the establishment. Ask the old-school fans how many showed up in the 90s when they were the only opposition to Slobodan Milošević—which was basically their only decent era.

It’s not just about the fans, either. When Ante Gotovina and Branimir Markač got those first-instance sentences, maybe 2,000 people protested. When they were cleared? 200,000 people celebrated. ☕

There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth in what analogheron19 is saying. It's obvious there's an inverse relationship between Zdravko Mamić's ego and your numbers. The more of you there are, the smaller he gets, which is why he works so hard to cut you down.
It's also obvious that the number of people actually doing the fighting—the "real" ones—is way smaller than the crowd that shows up to celebrate the win later. That's normal. Everyone knows that. Nice way to describe the generals.

But it's a mistake to think everything will just go back to "normal" once this is all over. Everything leaves a mark. Every event and every action has consequences that you guys are feeling right now, and they won't just vanish when this ends. Unfortunately, they stick around as a lifelong memory of Mamić & Co.

Just like how a ton of veterans couldn't just go back to a normal life after the war ended; they’re left with PTSD as a permanent reminder.
Your best bet is to start planning a program for the new generations immediately—how to attract them, "train" them, keep them engaged, etc.

Because you guys are mostly done—not as individuals, but as a generation. Your time is up. The new kids are going to be the ones carrying the BBB flag, so you better figure out how to prep them.

Like rebuilding humanity after some kind of global catastrophe.🙂

Jesse Campbell said:And why would they even bother reacting when Dinamo is the direct successor to the legacy of Građanski? I think it’s honestly rude and pointless to debate this based on hearsay, especially since I personally have more people in my own family who claim this—people who actually lived through that era and were university professors, intellectuals, and folks who truly understood what was happening. We aren't just talking about some random shepherds out in the Appalachians. But whatever, let's not get sidetracked here.

The second, and arguably more significant reason, is that Mamić turned the whole thing into his own little private celebration. He basically wanted to cloud the fact that he’s a notorious criminal operating illegally within Dinamo by throwing up a distraction with a topic that's currently less important.

They intentionally threw a smoke bomb our way. That's why we didn't take the bait; instead, we kept hitting the same points we always do. Kuiš?

...aha.

http://www.ed.nl/algemeen/sport/nood...es_image_title

Man, Google Translate really works wonders sometimes.

And honestly? Screw all those idiot journalists who fueled this whole mess with their sensationalist garbage. I sincerely hope that one day you guys get chased around like animals for absolutely no reason at all.
Ugh, you people are pathetic. Go back to digging through the trash for some cheap fashion gossip worth pennies; honestly, you probably couldn't even afford that.

Brandon Hill5 said:Your best bet is to head straight to the core and start planning a roadmap focused on the next generation—basically figuring out how to pull them in and actually teach them the ropes of animation and all that.

Honestly, knowing BBB, once we start hitting numbers and bringing in fresh blood, there’s bound to be some internal drama. You know the drill: people will start asking, "Where were you guys when we were doing all the heavy lifting?" It’s just the kind of messy infighting BBB is famous for.

James James said:http://www.ed.nl/algemeen/sport/nood...es_image_title

Google Translate works wonders sometimes.

And yeah, screw every single idiot journalist who fueled this whole mess with their sensationalist garbage. I honestly hope one day you all get hunted down like animals for absolutely no reason at all.
Disgusting scum. Keep digging through the trash for pennies; it’s clearly all you’re worth.

No, don't just swear at the journalists, the cops, the politicians, or the filth running the club—start filing lawsuits against them by name. Go after them and their bosses too. Pulling your hair out and burying your head in the sand isn't going to change a damn thing.

analogheron19 said:Is it really that difficult to admit the truth? We are currently several steps behind them in almost every single category.
Who among the "intellectuals" out there can honestly claim that this scene only exists because of some agency's influence? If we're sticking to the tired thesis that an agency has been pulling the strings for twenty-five years straight, then why have both sides experienced such massive fluctuations? Why have they hovered at similar levels to ours over the last few years, or even dominated us a decade ago? It just doesn't add up, does it?🤷
Hard work, smart work, and nothing but strategic, long-term planning focused on scaling up, recruiting the next generation, and strengthening local chapters—that is the only way to reach the numbers seen by groups like the Black and Gold Army or the Red and Whites. Everything else is just pure nonsense and sheer stupidity.
Lying to ourselves isn't going to fix a damn thing. All we're doing is blinding ourselves to the reality of the situation, which only makes it harder to find a way out. Why would anyone think self-deception is a strategy? It’s just making the climb back up much steeper.
Do you honestly believe we’re small and weak because of Mamich? The reality is actually quite the opposite: Mamich is only in power because we are few and we are weak. We are far too insignificant to pose a legitimate threat to him. We are far too negligible for those who could actually unseat him to take us seriously. We are far too minor for anyone working alongside him to view us as anything more than a footnote. In fact, we are so insignificant that those aligned with him simply characterize us as a "greater evil" to justify their own actions.
If we actually had ten solid guys showing up to every match—if we were actually capable of heading West or hitting the streets to pull twenty reliable people together—Mamich wouldn't even exist in this league. Honestly, if I weren't so busy being terrified of my own shadow, I’d have flown the coop myself ages ago. We’d have some other leader stepping up who actually has the guts to take him down, instead of just sitting here grumbling about his nonsense. Of course, if we had that kind of backbone, the cops wouldn't even dare sniff around our section, nor would those damn security guards... 🤷Those damn security guards actually had the nerve to lecture us. Give me a break. As if any of them would have dared to show their face in the stands back then—let alone deal with being surrounded and chased off the North Side by 300 cops. Not a chance.

You managed to distill the core of the problem into a single sentence, but everything else remains up for debate.

May 1, 2010. Up north, there were 3,500 people all storming the stands at once, looking for trouble and throwing hands. And don't even get me started on the chaos in the parking lot and outside the stadium. To top it all off, what do we get? A massive media outcry targeting the "hooligans." Typical.
So, we need to talk about the crowd size. Or rather, the lack thereof. Considering the special units didn't even show up to the stands, the Bad Boys are down by a few thousand people. Is anyone actually surprised?🙄

If you’re going to insist on drawing comparisons between groups like the Bad Boys and the Red Star fans, you might want to actually consider a few facts first.
So, let's look at the numbers. You have Dinamo with its million fans here in America, and then you have Zvezda pulling in five million over in Mexico. Honestly? It’s a negligible difference. A tiny gap, really. 🙂
We’ve been dealing with suppression and outright bans here for eight years now, yet somehow, back in 2013, those people were still out there leading the charge on the front lines. How does that even make sense? 🙂 Where exactly do we go from here? 🙂
There are still a few more critical points to cover, but honestly, this is already quite a lot to digest.

So, what’s the narrative now? Are we really supposed to sit here and debate whether someone climbed a few extra steps while others were shut down by heavy-handed policing? It’s funny how that works. We see certain stadiums burning to the ground without a single consequence, all while the club picks up the tab, yet we're expected to focus our outrage on their choreographies and flares. Is that the game we're playing now? 🙂
Who would actually stand shoulder-to-shoulder with a few hundred hooligans fighting for their club when that club is busy dominating the Champions League and racking up consecutive titles? Honestly, that’s exactly why things are the way they are. Dinamo is sitting right where it belongs because it’s successful within the context of American soccer, and frankly, it’s because heavy-handed crackdowns and bans effectively gutted the supporter groups.
That’s exactly why the Bad Boys are such a small group these days. But honestly, even looking at what you just wrote—it’s basically just a blueprint of how the Bad Boys have operated over the last five years. A slow, steady march toward total extinction. Is anyone actually surprised?

You guys are back at it again with the demographics argument, but honestly, you should just shut it. This city has one decent club and one decent group of supporters, and if anyone is supposed to have a supporter section packed tighter than any stands from Munich to Athens, it’s us. There is absolutely no excuse for a major US metro area with over a million people to have such pathetic numbers. I mean, within a radius of 25 miles, you've got 1.1 million people living right there, and there's only one legitimate club and one real group—so there's no way to justify why we aren't everywhere. Like I said yesterday, the ultras basically emerged in this city as a subcultural alternative for kids, plain and simple. Once Mamić stops screwing over Dinamo, the crowds will return to the stadium in certain numbers, but I seriously doubt the fan base is going to explode. Maybe it will grow, but nothing crazy. If we just accept the reality of our actual numbers sooner rather than later, it'll be easier to deal with the disappointment when we face the real stats. As for the long-term future? Who knows. But if we ever want to see a massive movement, it’s going to take at least ten years of grueling grassroots work with the kids who are 10 to 15 right now—kids who don't even know where Yankee Stadium is today.

Robert Adams6 said:You managed to nail the core issue in one sentence, but everything else you wrote is up for debate.

May 1st, 2010—there were 3,500 people up in the north stands, and they stormed the stands and started brawling regardless. And don't even get me started on what was happening in the parking lots and outside the stadium. After all that, there was just a massive outcry about "hooligans."
That’s the reality of the crowd size and why the specialized police units aren't even stepping onto the stands anymore—the Bad Boys have dwindled down to a few thousand.🙄

If you really want to compare groups like the Bad Boys to the Red Star fans, you need to look at a few facts.
Dinamo has maybe a million fans across the whole US, while Red Star has five million in Mexico. It’s a tiny difference when you scale it out.🙂
Over here, we've been dealing with constant crackdowns and bans for eight years straight, whereas back in 2013, those guys were still lighting up the front rows of the stadium.🙂 Where else are you going to go from there?🙂
There are plenty of other points, but this should be enough.
So what? Now we’re supposed to talk about how some group is sitting a few steps higher than others, while our group has been systematically dismantled by repression, yet their stadiums burn down without consequence because the club picks up the tab? But sure, let's focus on their choreographies and flares instead.🙂
Who would actually stand by a few hundred hooligans fighting for the club when that club is playing in the Champions League and racking up consecutive titles? That’s exactly why ZM is where it is—because Dinamo is successful within the American framework, and it's specifically because the crackdowns and bans killed off the main group.
That’s part of the reason why the Bad Boys are so small now. And honestly, what you wrote describes exactly what the Bad Boys have been through over the last five years: a slow march toward extinction.

I'll say it again: there isn't a single group out there that wouldn't find life easier if they were ten times larger. Of course, a bigger group finds it easier to light flares, and the cops would think three times before trying to storm the stands. Not to mention the endless lecturing from the security guards.
You think Polish fans wearing matching gear is a coincidence? They can light up much tougher police forces and navigate much stricter laws.
Believe me, politicians would also think twice if they had to deal with us being able to mobilize ten thousand people on the street at a moment's notice.
As it stands, we're just a marginal little group that both Mamich and the politicians can play with whenever they feel like messing with us.

It’s like watching someone else’s backyard burn; there’s really no point in staring when the whole system over there is a chaotic mess where all three branches of government have lost their way. It feels like everything in our own country is moving toward that same destination, where the judiciary, the legislature, and the executive branch all start acting as one single entity.
When you consider how much easier it is to manage a crowd of 10,000 people if you’re just passively observing a fan movement instead of being tasked with "shutting it down" by default, the math changes.
People tend to act out of pure momentum; if the first person lights a flare and faces zero consequences, even the oldest guy in the group hierarchy is going to follow suit. However, once that first person is hit with heavy sanctions, the tenth person won't even think about lighting one, and the core members of the group will certainly pause to rethink their entire strategy. It works exactly the same way with both repression and the eventual decline of a movement.

Look, I might not be the expert here to lead this constructive conversation, but I really wanted to weigh in at the end. Like analogheron19 said, the most important thing is the actual work—specifically, the work we do for BBB. I honestly don't think it would be too much trouble over the next few weeks to try and organize a massive call-to-action. We could get everyone together—people I've been seeing in the stands for years—for a big meeting. A month from now would be perfect. We can do it anywhere, anytime! I’m talking about pulling people in from everywhere: from the suburbs of New Jersey and Philly up to Chicago, down through Dallas, Atlanta, and all the way to LA and San Francisco. Even folks traveling in from places like Austin, Denver, or Seattle. I am absolutely certain that if we put the word out, we'd get at least five die-hard fans showing up from every single one of those cities. And let's be real, these people are way more than just casual fans. That passion? That's our fuel. That's our future. It's exactly what we need to get the younger generation hyped up and moving in the right direction. Imagine all that energy concentrated in one single spot. One massive meeting. Anywhere, whenever. I truly believe it's doable. In my mind, it's the only way we actually move the needle. It's the only real path forward. And hey, count me in—I'm volunteering first!