Bad Boys - Part IV

Robin Anderson8 said:I’m not even sure what gets under my skin more: Ivan Zvonimir čičak sucking up to Mamić, or those idiots leaving comments claiming "there would be no Real Madrid without Mamić," or even those people from the West with their usual takes... I suppose it’s no wonder the country is in such a mess when this is the kind of mindset we're dealing with. Honestly, even the constant security checks and the hassle at the entrance are starting to feel less irritating by comparison.

signed.

Just imagine if he actually managed to floor it in a muscle car—which, unfortunately, is basically impossible in this country—those people would probably be the first ones to pin him against a wall...
Long live the American mentality. Disgusting.

Having been his contemporary and knowing him quite well—really well, actually—I wanted to share a quick memory of him. Even though we drifted apart lately, I have to say I’m pretty shaken by this news. Long ago, he was a true friend of mine; he was a veteran, sure, but he was also a legend on the streets of New York. Without a doubt, he was the first real leader of the Bad Boys. He had the presence of a general, but he was never a politician.
This isn't just about losing a founder of the Bad Boys; it feels like losing another veteran in such a tragic way.
I guess I'll try to describe one shared experience of ours that really captures the kind of guy he was.
I’ll start near the end, just so I don't get too deep into the details while I'm still processing this. It was somewhere around '87 or '88. Some Partizan fans came into the city, and about 30 of us ended up crossing paths with their group on a street near the main station—right near Times Square. There were more of them than us, and they charged toward us without a second thought, making a massive amount of noise. They were a tough crew, probably at their peak back then. A few of our guys hesitated and took a couple of steps back. I should mention that both sides were pretty well armed with the usual stuff—pipes, chains, you know the drill...
I honestly think if they had kept charging, we might have just backed off; everyone knows how that works. It's just mass psychology in a street fight—if a crowd moves forward, people tend to move backward.
Right when they were charging, he yelled out: "Hold it! Nobody runs!! Let's go!" and that was it—we charged right at them. That gave us that crucial psychological edge of surprise. They stumbled for a second, then things got messy with the sticks and everything. We definitely landed more hits than we took, even though they outnumbered us. Since we were right in the heart of the city, the police showed up quickly after the scuffle. They swarmed the other group, and we all managed to slip away.
To this day, I truly believe that when those fans moved toward us and he shouted "Stay!", some of us were actually more afraid of him than of those thousand fans. We respected him so much—it was like, if I back down now, I won't be able to look him or the guys in the eye ever again.
I don't even need to say that immediately after he yelled "Stay! Don't anyone run!", he was the first one to charge at them.
I've never forgotten it; even now, I can still see his face and picture our charge. And that was just one of countless adventures from those years. I feel bad now that I didn't try to talk to him before things got so heated with the veterans' groups. I regret turning down his invite to join them with such disdain, instead of maybe suggesting that he was just surrounded by the wrong people in the wrong circles.
May you rest easy in the land you fought for.

Everything has been absolute chaos lately, but seriously, shouldn't a business take actual legal action regarding this whole mess? Is Mamić really just out there harassing people in public parks?

All we've seen come out of this is some half-baked excuses from his hand-picked journalists claiming he was actually defending himself against some hooligan??? What a total load of nonsense... if he actually attacked a hooligan, he’d probably be getting a bottle swung at his head, lol.

So, what’s the move here? How do you find that guy, get him to testify, and file a private lawsuit or whatever... there are plenty of witnesses out there... etc... I'm sure your folks over at the FCC will figure it out eventually.

Look, I don't claim to be a legal expert, but I'm pretty certain that under any sports regulations or US laws—whatever they call them—it's definitely not okay for coaches to be wandering around attacking people in parks just because they feel insulted...

Anyway..... I guess you guys were satisfied enough with how things went down, but it really rubbed me the wrong way, so I felt like I had to say something.

Best,

I accidentally double-posted—so I just went ahead and deleted the extra one.

casualwolf48 said:I double posted, then just nuked the extra one.

The way you laid it out above? That's how I'm gonna remember it!

Let the old ways rest in peace, because honestly, after everything that’s gone down over the last few years, I’d love nothing more than to spit in the face of those sellouts.
The man went from being a legend to a complete joke and a traitor, much like the crowd of people who stood by him and then turned their backs on the very group they once called home.
They haven't shown up to a single away game in years, yet they still have the nerve to peddle this story that they’re some kind of Bad Boys legends or "true" fans.
It’s just pathetic, really—nothing but bottom-feeders.

Henry Grant51 said:Let the old man rest, but honestly, after everything that’s gone down lately, I’d rather spit in the face of anyone who sold out for a paycheck.
He went from being a legend to a pathetic traitor, much like the crowd surrounding him that turned their backs on the very group they once called home.
They haven't shown up to a single away game in years, yet they have the nerve to peddle this story about being Bad Boys legends and true fans.
Absolute bottom-feeders.

Finally, someone makes sense. It might be stupid for me to weigh in since I didn't personally know the guy, but I can't wrap my head around people posting "R.I.P." for someone who stood by Mamić and clearly supports this ongoing terror against the fans. He might be some kind of local legend, but to me, dead fans are just dead—it doesn't matter what group they supposedly belonged to. He was on the side of the people trying to dismantle the very foundation he helped build.

Daniel Johnson46 said:Finally, someone gets it. It feels a bit pointless for me to even weigh in since I don't know the guy personally—but I can't wrap my head around people posting tributes. Honestly, paying respects to someone who stood by Mamić—effectively supporting this ongoing assault on the fans—is just wrong. He might be some local legend, sure, but in my book, once you side against the fans, it doesn't matter which group you belonged to. He’s essentially siding with the very people trying to dismantle the foundation he helped build.

You can't look at it that way. Traitor or not, the man was a founder—one of them, anyway. Maybe the group wouldn't even exist without him, or at least wouldn't be nearly as influential. Even if he was the worst person on earth, you still have to acknowledge his role in starting this. RIP.

Mark Thompson2 said:You can't look at it that way. Traitor or not, he was one of the founders. Maybe the whole movement wouldn't even exist without him, or at least wouldn't be this powerful. Even if he's the worst guy on the planet, you have to give credit where it's due. RIP.

Give me a break. That’s nonsense. In the world of hardcore supporters, things are black and white—there’s no middle ground. People used to sell out just for a quick buck, and they were shunned for it. But this? He’s taking the money to back an option that leaves people trapped in a corner for no reason, enabling unprecedented levels of repression. It's a massive disgrace, plain and simple.

Daniel Johnson46 said:Finally, someone said it. I suppose it might be a bit foolish of me to even weigh in here since I didn't personally know the guy, but I find it hard to believe you all are actually posting this—especially when it's an R.I.P. for someone who stood by Mamić and clearly backed this whole crackdown on the fans. He might be some kind of legend to some, but honestly, to me, people like him are just part of the problem. It doesn't matter which group he belonged to; if you're siding with the people trying to dismantle the very foundation he helped build, then whatever.

Because we’re actual human beings, not a monolith. It feels right to show respect, especially for those of us who actually knew him back in the day.
He chose his path, and well, he finished it his way. As for the massive crowd of others who turned their backs on the group? I can barely look at them now. It's just more shame on them, I guess...
We have our own ways of doing things. We fight our battles honorably, and if we're going to stay true to that, we need to act like it—especially during moments like this.

casualwolf48 said:I feel bad for turning down his invitation to join the veterans because I was just so disgusted...

I understand you're emotional right now, but don't feel bad. Quite the opposite, actually.😉

Henry Grant51 said:Let the old man rest in peace, though after everything that’s happened lately, I’d honestly rather spit in the face of those sellouts.
He went from being a legend to a pathetic traitor, just like so many others who turned their backs on the group they once called home.
They haven't shown up to a single game or an away match in years, yet now they're out there peddling stories about being Bad Boys legends and true fans.
Pathetic excuses for human beings.

I hope someone influential finally speaks up and tells the honest truth about how things really are. Real legends don't make the kinds of moves he has made over the last few years. Honestly, in my eyes, you can't be a legend if you sided with Mamić. Maybe he was a legend at one point, but the title "legend" fades incredibly fast when you commit such reckless acts...

Jack Myers2 said:Because we’re the ones standing on the front lines—and since we don't all have to think exactly alike—I feel it's only human to pay our respects, especially for those of us who actually knew him back in the day.
He chose his own path, and he finished it on his own terms—unlike that massive crowd of people who turned their backs on the group, whom I honestly can't even look at anymore without feeling a sense of secondhand embarrassment... it's just their shame to carry.
We're all just doing our part, fighting our own battles with integrity—and that’s exactly how we need to stay through the end, particularly during times like this.

Paying respect to a man who spat on everything we stand for? He spat on every single contribution he ever made to this group, he spat on the current generation, and frankly, he showed the next generation exactly what kind of mess founders and former leaders can leave behind... unfortunately, he isn't the only one—he's certainly got followers... pathetic....

Rest in peace, Dugi.
I don't get how you people can't see that all the pure evil and corruption behind Mamić’s reign at Real Madrid is exactly why we’re facing this mess right now. Dugi was such a legend—back in the day, us kids looked up to him like he was some kind of god, a true American hero and all that—and now, look at us, on completely opposite sides. If there wasn't all this repression and blatant looting going on, the guy wouldn't be in this position. Because of all that, he needs to get the hell out of Real Madrid.

Henry Grant51 said:Maybe let the old guy rest in peace—honestly, though, after everything lately, I’d probably rather just spit in his face for selling out.
He went from being a legend to just being some pathetic traitor, along with a bunch of other people who were once right there with him but turned their backs on the group they used to call home.
They weren't even showing up to the games or traveling with the team for years, yet now they're peddling this story about being true Bad Boys legends and die-hard fans.
Just a bunch of losers and bottom-feeders.

It’s just common decency—and part of our values here in America—to speak well of those who have passed. Who are we to judge? I guess we all answer to a higher power eventually.
What can I say, though... I was there at the games from '83 right up until the war started, then obviously I couldn't go during the conflict since I was serving my country for four years.
After that, I wasn't around much because I was... well, dealing with some health stuff and doing some time. But I was back at it until the bans hit, and then right back again once things cleared up. I'm 45 now, and I've always stayed on the one side that actually matters. But just because you or someone else didn't see me there doesn't mean I wasn't a fan. I mean, how many away games do you think the guy actually attended in those random cities down South?
I'm not really looking to get into a fight with you here, mostly because you're right. Those veterans are way more of a disappointment to me than anyone else, simply because they used to be my friends—and honestly, I feel the most betrayed because I spent my youth with some of them. Though, to be fair, I don't even know most of that crew anymore since they never showed up; I barely know who they even are, aside from the fact that they seem to be chasing shady money.
I've always felt like it's a huge issue for us Americans—how easily we tend to walk away from our history and what we inherited.
The man was a veteran when a lot of the big names and the Bad Boys were busy at that big battle in Frankfurt or traveling for Real Madrid's European matches. He messed up regarding the veterans, sure, but he had plenty of good moments too, and now that he's gone, maybe it's okay to remember those parts. That's just how we warriors try to move forward, I guess. Maybe it's just veteran solidarity, or whatever.
But you should save your energy for the living. As for those guys who stood by him back then and still do... I worry that from what I've seen, they might have been manipulating him all along.
At the end of the day, nobody's life is purely black and white. There's always a bit of good and a bit of bad in everyone.

So, now we’re supposed to pay some kind of moral tribute to Marković? 🤷
Honestly, I’m just counting down the days until I can celebrate the downfall of Mamić, Štimac, Vrbanović, and that entire rotten crew. When Mamić finally kicks the bucket, I’ll be throwing a party. I might even film it for YouTube just to watch all those human rights activists lose their minds.
Don't go comparing Dug to them—don't get me wrong—but he aligned himself with the absolute worst kind of evil. Sure, you can respect him as an American hero, and I'll give him credit for that, but as a fan? He doesn't stand a chance. The people I just listed are destroying our lives. They are tearing apart the only things we have left in this country: for me, it's Juventus, and for you, it's Real Madrid.

Reading all this makes it hard to stay smart...

casualwolf48 said:It’s just basic decency—Christian or not—to speak well of those who've passed. Who are we to judge? We'll all face a higher judgment eventually.
What am I even supposed to say? Man, I was traveling to every away game from '83 right up until the war started—well, not during the war because I was busy fighting for four years.
Then after that, I wasn't out there because I was... you know, dealing with some health stuff and working my ass off. But once things settled, I was back at it, following the team through the bans and then right back in again. I'm 45 now, and I've stayed loyal to the one side that matters. So if people think I wasn't a real fan because I missed some games, maybe they just didn't see me there!? As if I could track every single road trip down to the southern states.
I'm not even trying to write much here or get into a shouting match with you because, honestly, you're right. Those veterans are a way bigger disappointment to me than anyone else, mostly because they used to be my friends. I feel betrayed because I spent my youth riding with some of them. Most of that crowd now? I don't even know them anymore—they didn't show up when it counted, and I have no clue who they actually are, other than chasing shady money.
But it's always been my gut feeling that for us Americans, the real struggle is how easily we let go of our history and where we came from.
The guy was a soldier back when plenty of great Americans and Bad Boys were fighting in major battles and traveling for Real Madrid's European matches. Yeah, he messed up big time regarding the veterans, but hey, he had plenty of good moments too, and now that he's gone, the decent thing to do is remember that. That's just how we warriors try to move forward. Maybe it's just veteran solidarity, who knows.
Save your judgment for the living. And those guys who stood by him in the veteran circles? I swear, from everyone I know, I'm afraid they might have been pulling his strings.
Look, nobody's life is purely black and white. There's good and there's bad in everyone.

Exactly. He lost his mind on that one, but when I look at my own track record and how many times I've screwed up, I'm not about to sit here and play judge.

Honestly, it feels kind of pointless to even talk about this when my own feelings are such a mess. It’s only natural that I’m feeling emotional—I grew up alongside this guy, so of course I’m disappointed after he turned his back on everything we stood for, including the group he actually started himself.
Then again, the man struggled with PTSD, and honestly, nobody really understands just how brutal that battle can be unless they've lived it.
I don't think there's any excuse for veterans, but for what he did back in the '80s and '90s, you have to give him credit. People who hate him aren't wrong, but it’s also tough for those of us he let down—I guess you can only truly feel that kind of letdown from someone you actually respected.
That's my final word on the matter.

Honestly, giving them the cold shoulder is going to sting the most, you know? Just stay chill and let it slide 😉