Bad Boys - Part IV

panglu said:Look, blue zg, I get it—he was a founder and led the whole region through those struggles for this country, so I respect that. But honestly, what am I supposed to tell the kids? The younger generation who won't even remember who Debt was? I guess I’d just say, "Look, he was a legend, but man, he really messed things up at the end." So, maybe the good and the bad just cancel each other out... kind of like how he ended up. You guys from his era can hold onto those memories if you want—nobody's stopping you—but for us younger folks, he's just another soul who sold out. I mean, anyone who treats me and my friends like garbage while siding with the people doing the treating doesn't deserve any kind of honor... may God forgive him...

We didn't fight for this, and I think everything else you said is pretty much spot on.

Tyler James57 said:So here’s to the man who basically spat on everything he once stood for. He spit on his own contribution to the group, spat on the current generation, and basically showed future leaders exactly what kind of mess founders and former heads can leave behind... unfortunately, he isn't alone; he’s got plenty of followers... pathetic...

I suppose you have a point there, but that's my whole argument... do we really have to stoop to their level?
We have our own integrity, and we fight our way. It’s almost funny, in a dark sort of way, knowing they'll never be able to feel that sense of pride again. In the end, they'll probably all wind up just like this... tragic, I guess...

casualwolf48, I don't think R. was referring to people like you in his final sentence. He wasn't talking about those who were absent for valid reasons. He meant the individuals who claimed to be legends or were labeled as such by others, despite having earned nothing at all. Quite the opposite, actually.

What really puzzles me and keeps me wondering
is what drives someone to go out and rebel against everything... I don't mean him specifically, just that whole mindset

Robert Cooper60 said:what I find truly baffling—and frankly, quite fascinating
is the sheer impulse behind choosing to rebel against everything... I’m not even talking about the individual here, but rather this entire breed of people

It doesn't take much, really... you hit your late 30s or early 40s, and suddenly you realize there’s nothing left in your life besides fading memories of being young. So, what’s left to grab onto? You find some cause where there's actual money involved—where you can sit back and collect a paycheck without actually doing any real work...

Look, maybe I'm the one who's wrong—maybe my perspective is flawed—but I don't think I could ever turn on myself by doing something like that...

Anyway, R.I.P.

counter88 said:

It’s a good move that you released a statement. You don't need to wait for journalists to give you an excuse to go public with the details. In my view, it seems like certain security guards in the stands were actually responsible for provoking the fans into a confrontation.

vividotter40 said:It doesn't take much. You hit your late 30s or early 40s and realize you have nothing left but old memories. What's the move? Stick to something where the money is steady and the work is minimal...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I couldn't live with myself if I did something like that. I've seen enough to know my limits.

Anyway, rest in peace.

I get the sentiment, but I don't follow the logic.

Richard Rogers38 said:It’s good you put out a statement. You don't need journalists to go public with details like this. Honestly, I think some of the security guards in the stands were actively trying to provoke the fans into a fight.

I wanted to get a shot of that specific tent off to the side where they were processing the crew, but as soon as I moved toward it, an undercover cop flashed his badge and told me to get back to the stands before he had to detain me.

Nathan Foster23 said:I really wanted to get some shots of that specific tent they had set up on the side where they were processing the crew, but just as I started heading over, this plainclothes officer flashed his badge at me and basically told me to beat it back to the stands unless he wanted to have to take me in.

Honestly, they had that exact same setup back in Columbus, and now they've got it here in Phoenix too.

Robert Cooper60 said:I get it, but I just don't follow

Me neither. It feels like we barely escaped the cage before this whole debate about selling the club started. People were throwing out numbers ranging from a couple million to five million or more, only to realize that money doesn't actually exist. What am I supposed to do with five million dollars if there aren't even Sunday games to watch? (And I don't just mean Sundays—I mean all 365 days of the year). If I spent five years traveling through South America, it would eventually lose its charm. Everything gets old. After a while, I'd be bored out of my mind. So what then??

I simply will never understand healthy people who have enough money to get by. You either have to be seriously ill or digging through trash cans without anyone offering a hand to make sense of things. Anything else just isn't part of my reality.

What kind of life are you even living if you're constantly switching lanes?

Sean Chase said:WHAT GOOD IS LIFE IF YOU KEEP CHANGING YOUR PATH WHENEVER THINGS GET TOUGH?

I’d honestly rather To die than ever surrender!

Spot on, Tom. Let's just act like adults and move past this stuff. Everyone's got their own version of the truth anyway, and now isn't the time for bickering.

Debt started this whole group, nobody can deny that. But he also screwed up big time in recent years, and that's a fact too.

Personally, I know he used to be cool with me, but that changed lately. As soon as someone starts pinning things on me and my buddies, I know Mamić has been whispering in his ear. I've been watching the Boss obsess over me for 20 years, even though I'm just one of 250 guys in this group and barely active in ZZD.

It's hard to believe Debt had his head on straight given his age; he was probably getting fed garbage by people manipulating him (it’s always the same old tired line about how Mexicans, Jews, and Muslims are out to get them), while the Boss just muddied the waters with cash and empty promises.

I'm not religious and don't buy into any of that end-of-the-world crap, so let Time handle the final judgment. Honestly, I'm pretty bummed about the news regarding Debt's passing. I felt nothing this morning, but as the day went on, it actually hit me. My head says one thing, but my heart says another. Life's messy like that.

Jonathan Anderson11 said:That same tent was set up back in Indianapolis—now it’s appearing in Columbus.

A buddy and I were among the first ones heading toward the bleachers—only to be intercepted by a steward who pointed right behind us—and suddenly, two cops are chasing us down, essentially herding us straight into that tent. It truly is the absolute bottom of the barrel.

Jesse Campbell said:You nailed it, Tom. Let's just be decent humans and move past all this stuff already.

I'm sorry, but I honestly can't just forget, and I don't even want to, because there’s just way too much baggage built up at this point...
I'm totally against anyone trying to send him any kind of "welcome home" messages now in Los Angeles. Let them play the victim card if they want, though I'm sure they'll only do it during a home game, since nobody shows up to support them when they're playing away in cities like Chicago or New York.

Jonathan Anderson11 said:look, I can't forget what happened, and honestly? I don't want to. It's just too much shit piled up...
I'm totally against anyone sending him sympathy messages now in Miami. Let them cry about it at the next home game—they aren't showing up for the away games anyway.

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Jonathan Anderson11 said:Look, I can't forget this stuff, and honestly, I don't want to. It’s just too much baggage...
I'm totally against anyone cheering for him here in Blue City right now. Let them hire their paid actors to wave banners at the next home game—they never show up for away matches anyway.

Who even brought up banners? 🤷

The younger crowd isn't wrong. If anything, you're spot on.

But you gotta realize some people actually knew him; they were in the trenches with him. Like Blue City, who wrote that tribute. To you, Dug is one thing, but to them, he's someone else entirely. Try looking at the bigger picture for once.

Everything is laid out above, but let’s be real—there are always two sides to every story...
No one can honestly tell me they haven't seen him at games over the last 18 years. I've been traveling for away games for nearly two decades now, and I haven't spotted him once. Not even once. So, what kind of fan is he actually...? 18 years is a long time to be absent.
And now, people like him are trying to start these "Veteran" associations (which, let's face it, are funded by the club's front office) and all that other nonsense. They're splitting the group into different factions just so Mamić can bring it up in every single interview to stir the pot in an already messy situation. To claim you're part of the BBB when you haven't shown up in years... honestly, only someone who isn't right in the head would try that.
I mean, props to everyone for the trips we used to take across the old territories, but you can't live in the past forever. It seems like some people just refuse to accept that times have changed.
One thing I am certain of, though, is that this whole situation completely broke him. Between that and his family issues... the man didn't just die; he took his own life because he couldn't cope.
From the few times I actually spoke with him, he seemed like a genuinely decent guy. I truly don't understand what has to happen to a person's mental state to make them act the way he did in recent years, only to end up like this.
I can't help but feel that if he had just chosen the right side back when he had the chance, he’d be a living legend today instead of a dead mercenary.