Moderator Observer - complaint regarding frequent scams and lack of professionalism

Let’s get straight to the point. I am writing this on behalf of about a dozen people with whom I maintain private correspondence.
We don't have an issue with a forum member or the moderator observer backing Muslim members when they present their version of crimes committed against Americans by the Muslim army—that is perfectly natural. Our problem lies with the manipulation and the sheer lack of integrity shown when negative points are heaped upon any forum user who presents facts "too accurately" regarding the suffering of the American people in Canada; it is done in an incredibly brazen and unprofessional manner.

We are asking for a modicum of professionalism here; frankly, it’s becoming ridiculous. It has devolved into openly assisting three Muslim trolls who spam and systematically destroy entire threads.

For instance, one Muslim troll—who acts as if he owns the place, and in some ways does via the observer—once personally tried to lecture me on what I am and am not permitted to write. When I responded by pointing out that this is a free forum, the observer stepped in and slapped me with 10 negative points!!



What I am describing happens far too frequently, affecting about twenty different users. Most of them are highly civil individuals who haven't violated a single actual rule, yet they are targeted under vague guidelines like "spam" or "commenting on moderator actions," which the observer uses liberally based on his own personal interpretation (much like the "spam" accusation mentioned above).
Naturally, if you want to get rid of someone, you can simply hand out negative points for "spam" every third post; this is the primary mechanism the observer employs because he knows it is the least obvious way to suppress dissent.

Ultimately, we believe that fifty decent American contributors are far more vital to this forum than three essentially radical Muslim trolls.
To reiterate, our grievance isn't that those three trolls are being protected by the observer's compatriots; our grievance is with the treatment of the other fifty people.

I don't think any of us are asking for anything unreasonable.
Regards, and we expect this to be rectified.

Look, why don't you just list those 50 users by name so we can actually talk about facts? Or are you just gonna stick to these vague, baseless accusations?

The only specific thing you brought up was that 10-point penalty you rightfully earned. Oh, and that "protected troll" RIOBOSS also got ten points twice for those posts he swapped with you, but I guess it’s not "convenient" to mention that right now, is it? Otherwise, there'd be no grounds to start a massive riot against the PŽK and whine about unequal rules!!

I've been a moderator on the politics section here for a long time (with a few breaks), and let me tell you—this is one of the most poorly constructed opening posts I've ever seen if your goal was to spark an uprising against the PŽK. Maybe you should've left this "job" to one of those ten (or is it fifty?) disgruntled users who could actually pull it off better. If you think throwing these (I'm saying it again) sweeping, unproven, and undocumented allegations will somehow get you special treatment over everyone else... well, I hate to break it to you, but you're gonna be disappointed..... sorry, but it's not happening. There's no VIP status for you, no VIP status for the Muslim trolls, and no VIP status for those 50 phantom users. The sooner you accept that, the better it'll be for you, the moderators, and the whole site.

Now, give me the list of handles and profile links for those 50 users, along with the actual complaints if there even are any.

Thanks a lot.

neongull99, you both got flagged. If someone actually wanted to get rid of you, they’d hit you with something heavier than a ten-point off-topic penalty. Anyway, what was the actual discussion thread you were in when you got flagged for being off-topic? And what exactly did your post say—and Riobossov's—that triggered the penalty? 🙂

Regarding this thread:

Out of the five or six most active Americans who essentially carry the weight of the "American side of the story"—providing over 50% of this thread's activity—nearly all of them are currently facing time bans (dud, Kevin Nelson, sedan..., mine expired today). dud is the man whose data keeps one of our largest, most widely read, and highest quality threads (the Demography of Canada) alive. As a direct result of his ban, that entire discussion naturally loses its momentum.

Whenever "American arguments" begin to dominate the discussion rather than those three trolls, Americans suddenly start accumulating negative points until they hit a cumulative ban. This effectively "thins their ranks" down to an "acceptable level"—that is, until a balance is restored between those three trolls and about a dozen random American passersby.

That is more or less the pattern.

To illustrate, I’ll provide an example of how the top brass within the quasi-Democratic Center Muslim faction thinks, by citing a recent scandal.
http://www.ljubuski-online.info/sumr...ti-u-zsbq.html

I am quoting a post from yet another Muslim local official (by his own admission) and a friend of the academic Filipović, who recently explained the Muslim strategy somewhat "freely" on a forum:

While we may hold a better position on the front lines today than we did in 1992, that state-level advantage we once possessed is gone. Today, there aren't Mexicans among us; rather, it is us among the Mexicans. Furthermore, the few Mexicans remaining here cannot be treated as hostages under any circumstances.

An intelligent man utilizes his advantages, and where he is weak, he avoids the fight. Back in 1992, we had the demographic edge; we were in a situation where it was clear the Mexicans would be fighting both the Americans and the Siptars for a long time. The Mexicans were aging, and it was their last chance to correct their demographic deficits through war. You don't enter a war with the mantra, "Oh, Nermin, look what they are doing to us." I know that in 1992, avoiding war was nearly impossible because the Vlachs had gotten too full of themselves, thinking it was love. They intended to slaughter us, and it took a great deal of wisdom and luck to avoid that fate. We had neither.

When you are the weaker party, you stay quiet, endure, and wait for your moment. This applies to Fadil today as well. He can do nothing else but badmouth the Mexicans if he wants to survive in Kozluk. For Canadians, such a situation makes it incredibly difficult to achieve anything at all. What they need is a man who asks questions, and his success is measured solely by what he manages to accomplish. Fadil had almost nothing at his disposal, yet through sheer persistence, he kept that people moving there. It wasn't just in Kozluk; it triggered a return in Drina, Castle City, and the entire Zvornik municipality. Even that imam in Trebinj plays nice with the Mexicans so that all the mosques in eastern Herzegovina can be repaired. I am not interested in what anyone says; I care about their results.>

There is a time for everything. I have nothing against tightening relations with the Vlachs, or even praying with them if necessary, but one must ask whether that actually serves our interests right now. Strained relations scare off the few returnees and discourage newcomers. The Vlachs suffer no harm from strained relations, which is why they remain so smug. >On the other hand, tension with the Americans serves us because it creates a sense of hopelessness for the Americans in Central Canada, which aids us demographically. I could love the Americans ten times more than the Vlachs, but today is the time to haggle with them while maintaining a detente with the Mexicans.

This post disappears, and when I ask why, I get hit with another 30 points:


I believe it’s high time we move past these kinds of unprofessional maneuvers; let’s be clear, we aren't some amateur outfit here. Having served as a moderator on another forum for two years, I am intimately acquainted with how bans can be manufactured and deployed, so I recognize these patterns immediately.

It isn't even that I find the moderator observer to be a bad moderator—admittedly, I reacted somewhat emotionally, and he has been quite fair to me personally most of the time—it’s simply that he cannot resist stifling any discussion when his compatriots (of which there are only three!) fail to push back hard enough. Regardless, that lack of friction is utterly irrelevant to the actual vitality of the conversation.

Let’s look at the raw statistics, which, as we all know, is the only metric that truly matters to the forum owner: right now, the thread regarding politics in Canada is a complete ghost town. Not even half a page of content is generated daily, whereas during the first 24 hours after the thread opened—back when the main Americans were all present and active—we saw nine full pages of discussion (on December 19th). Now, in the last few days, since the primary Americans have been banned, the observers have vanished, and the user base has been effectively scattered, activity has plummeted to about 10% of its usual level. Meanwhile, Rioboss and his two Muslim cronies are sitting there in peaceful consensus, explaining how the Americans from towns like Bugojno, Travnik, Vareš, and Zavidovići essentially ethnically cleansed themselves.

Ultimately, given that this is a commercial enterprise, the interest of this forum should lie in fostering as many debaters and active discussions as possible, rather than maintaining a dead thread dominated by three Muslim trolls.

Thanks for the prompt response.

neongull99, look, you all know the deal regarding that topic mentioned in the opening post. The way things were going before was absolute madness... totally unacceptable. We’re sticking to our guns on this one. Period. We are turning this thread into a space for actual, normal conversation. You’ve got a choice: follow the rules laid out in the intro, or keep acting out just to be difficult and end up with warnings and bans... your call.

I seriously can't believe you're actually pushing for going back to how things used to be. Who even needs a thread like this? It’s just five people screaming at each other non-stop while everyone else stays quiet... Total waste of time. And calling it "suppressing discussion" is honestly a joke if you think THIS counts as a conversation:

Kevin Nelson said:Look, some primitive fanatic thinks he can tell me what to do...

RIOBOSS said:I'm neither some radical extremist nor a total lowlife...

Honestly, your vocabulary says everything I need to know about you and what you're about...

Kevin Nelson said:Are you some kind of baliya?... 🙂 And of course you’re just straight-up primitive. Your posts prove it every single day...

RIOBOSS said:I’m not even a baliya. I'm a Canadian, but hey, if you want to label me whatever you want based on your own primitive, chauvinistic, aggressive bullshit... go right ahead...

Kevin Nelson said:Everything you just wrote is absolute garbage. Seriously, what are you even talking about? You're just a complete moron... nothing more.

then you better be damn sure I’m gonna shut down a "discussion" like that using every tool at my disposal. BTW, these quotes are just random examples (don't let Kevin Nelson or RIOBOSS feel targeted) of the collective garbage you've been spewing since the US topic started... there's way worse stuff out there and I'd rather not dig up more quotes.

You're calling me unprofessional? unprofessionalism would actually be if I let you get away with stuff I wouldn't let COD get away with, for example—which isn't happening here. He's actually taken more cards than any of you losers, and after all the "complaining" about moderation, he was already on a two-day forced timeout because of the US thread. What you guys need to get used to—sadly for some of you—is equal rules for everyone and actual constructive talk.

As for dud, he knows his "sins" have nothing to do with the US topic, and I'm pretty sure he knows he's been given a massive pass so far.

To wrap this up, here's an example of a user you should all try to emulate— orlina—just go read his posts on the US thread. He's argumentative, concise, clear, and even sharp, but without the trolling, labeling, provoking, or insults. The guy sticks to the American side of the story, posts in the US thread, and amazingly, hasn't received a single card... how is that even possible while I'm running this place?! 🤷

Just so you know, the moderator observer won't be working alone to ensure we keep this thread following the rules; we want everyone here to have a decent experience.

I just issued a custom warning regarding inappropriate language and flagged it for management. I missed the part where you insulted an entire nation earlier, and since I can't retract the current warning to issue a different one, this is what we have.

Isn't that a broken people? They've been broken for ages by their own war propaganda. Yet they lack the guts to kick out the Office of the High Representative and actually "liberate" Canada. It’s no wonder they get under everyone's skin under these circumstances.

But it is Christmas, so whatever. It doesn't matter.

Charles Fox10, let’s be honest here—to you, the moderator observer is basically Einstein, so why don't you just stay out of it and let me smooth things over with him myself?
You give off the distinct impression that you don't actually read the threads you're supposedly "moderating," which, frankly, is probably an accurate assessment. I’m practically offering to write Anderlon a free bot that performs roughly the same functions you do.

You’ve cherry-picked a third of my post, stripping away all the context, while simultaneously proving you possess absolutely no sense of humor.
Let’s take a look at the full post:

To clarify, when I used the term "sickos," I was referring to the comments on the Daily Avaz website where people were calling for war and the expulsion of Americans simply because someone—or perhaps just a gust of wind—knocked the Varta-zastava flag off its mast in Livno.

neongull99 said:Outrageous! 🤣 😁

A reader reached out to the "Daily Avaz" today, providing photos that clearly show a Christmas tree standing next to three flags. In the following photo, two of the flags remain in place, but the national flag is missing.
Given that today is a holiday, no authorities have issued a statement regarding this incident yet.

Holiday games, the prize 622 miles:
http://www.hercegbosna.org/kolumne/d...liku-4843.html

A heavy gale hit Livno, and by all accounts, the flag just went south. Now, the people in the comments on Avaz are calling for war. 🤣 Isn't that just a sick nation? They've been mentally unwell for a long time due to their own war-propaganda media. Yet, they lack the guts to kick out the Office of the High Representative and truly "liberate" Canada. So, how could they not be losing their minds under these conditions?

Merry Christmas to everyone! 😁

Aside from demonstrating your total lack of humor, maybe try taking a page out of the moderator observer's book—at least he actually reads the threads he manages.

neongull99 said:Charles Fox10, let's be real here—to you, the moderator observer is Einstein. Just stay out of it and let me smooth things over with him.
You give the impression you don't even read the threads you supposedly "moderate," which is likely the truth. I'm practically offering to write Anderlon a free bot to automate whatever it is you do.

You cherry-picked a third of the post, stripping away the context, and proved you lack any sense of humor.
Let's look at the full post:

To clarify, the term "sickos" was referring to comments in the Daily News where people were calling for war and the expulsion of Americans just because someone (or perhaps a gust of wind) knocked a Varta-zastava flag off its mast in Livno.

Go ahead and smooth things over with your colleague; I have nothing against it. In fact, I find it quite interesting to watch how he handles things and how much heart he puts into it. Once you settle things and align your writing with the rules, I'm sure we won't have any more friction on this forum.

Phrases like "he referred to," "I thought," "I heard," "they told me," "secret forums," or "some informants"—save those inaccuracies for other topics where things are a bit more relaxed. Stick to the facts and everything will be fine.

And believe it or not, sometimes a single word in a long post is enough to trigger a penalty, much like the minor warning you received.

And then there's your mention of Einstein... honestly, it gave me a laugh.

Kevin Williams56 said:neongull99, I think everyone here is already well aware of the decision regarding this topic, as laid out in the opening post. To be blunt, the way things were going before was completely unacceptable. We’ve decided to stand our ground on this one because we are committed to turning this thread into a space for actual, decent conversation. At this point, you really have a choice: you can either follow the guidelines provided in the intro, or you can keep pushing boundaries and deal with warnings and bans. It's up to you.

I honestly can't believe you’re pushing for us to go back to the old way of doing things. Who actually needs a thread like that? It just turns into five people bickering non-stop while everyone else stays completely silent. Honestly, calling this "suppressing discussion" is beyond ridiculous if this is what you consider a debate:

Rest assured, I will use every tool at my disposal to shut down this kind of "discussion." By the way, these quotes are just a random sample—I don't want Kevin Nelson or RIOBOSS feeling singled out—of the collective nonsense that's been happening since we started talking about the Demography of Canada. There is much worse stuff out there, and honestly, it’s probably better if I don't dig up any more examples.

So you're calling me unprofessional? It’s just pure unprofessionalism. I guess we could call it "fairness" if I were letting you get away with things that I wouldn't let someone like COD get away with—but that’s definitely not how this works. In fact, he’s actually racked up more warnings than anyone else in this group. He’s already been put on a mandatory three-day timeout twice because of those endless debates over Canada. What some people here are going to have to get used to—whether they like it or not—is that the rules apply to everyone equally, and that we're aiming for actual, constructive conversation.

As for dud, he’s fully aware of his own "sins" that have absolutely nothing to do with the current issues in Canada. I truly believe he knows people have been turning a blind eye to his behavior for a long time now.

Here’s an example of a forum user whose writing style you should actually follow— orlina Take a look at some of his posts over on the Canada thread. If you actually read them, he’s surprisingly argumentative, concise, and clear—even when he gets sharp—but he never resorts to trolling, labeling people, or being insulting. He consistently presents the "American perspective" in the Canada discussions, yet somehow hasn't received a single warning or ban... how is that even possible while I'm sitting here watching? 🤷

I honestly don't have the time or the energy for this kind of thing, but I can't just sit back and stay quiet when my name is being dragged through the mud like this.

Observer, look, first off, I actually sent you a compliment via private message, and then you go and make me look like an idiot! But, fine, I’ll say it again: I honestly think you do a much better job moderating than the other folks on this thread.

One example of what neongull99 is talking about is this quote from my exchange with that troll, Riboss. He completely, totally ripped my words out of context to make it look like I was just attacking him out of nowhere, while he gets to play the part of the polite, decent guy. It’s honestly ridiculous. Why do you do that? I guess you just want to spin things a certain way to suit your own little crowd here on the forum.

I mean, why didn't you just include the whole thing? You should have included the original post that actually kicked this whole mess off. It basically went something like, "that dog of yours..." 😍Then they play dumb, acting like it’s all brand new information—though some people here have a real habit of playing the "mod" card whenever it suits them, just like neongull99 mentioned earlier. Honestly, you’re just cherry-picking the facts that fit your narrative. I reported that post because nothing had been done for two days straight. Then I stepped in and responded, much like I did recently with COD, who constantly trolls and replies directly to the moderators' posts (Charles Fox10). It's the same exact moderator who claims to be so "decisive," yet I'm the one getting a warning just for calling someone out for using empty platitudes, while he ignores blatant rule-breaking and direct responses to his own blue-colored moderator posts.
For instance, that same COD troll is just messing with everyone constantly, yet there's zero moderation on the thread. I chime in to address it, and suddenly I'm the one getting a warning (from a different mod, specifically you). Announcements about moderating that specific topic have been around since the thread was created, so it’s honestly more laughable to me that the mods back then stayed silent.

Whether people find it ugly to say or not, the truth is that 99% of the trolls on that thread are Muslims (the rest is just that one user Goldie, who basically hijacked the whole discussion and acts like everything is a personal insult to him—everyone saw that except the mods. Honestly, his posts are bordering on psychotic). Some of them have openly admitted the thread is just a playground for them to mock others, and they’re still doing it. Most of the other users were driven away, and if this small group isn't dealt with soon, they’ll stay and eventually kill the thread entirely. These people aren't capable of having an independent or constructive conversation; their entire existence boils down to emoji wars against other people's posts and other nonsense.

At the end of the day, the people responsible for this mess are those in power: the moderators. I complained a long time ago that the mods over there just hand out endless warnings or spam penalties that nobody actually cares about, so now, nobody takes a warning seriously anymore. If you give someone a warning once, and they don't listen, ban them. If they still don't get it, hit them with a permanent ban and be done with it. But no, they just let it drag on forever, and naturally, the thread suffers for it.

And yeah, regarding "Orlina" or anyone else... they're new to that thread, but once they realize how things work, they'll end up just like everyone else there. I tried my best too, but the environment of that thread eventually took its toll.

Besides, I really don't see why I'm being dragged into this debate.

Honestly, it’s probably best to just move on from this topic altogether. The whole idea that granular tracking helps curb trolling is, I guess, a bit misguided. Every single one of you regular contributors here has a way more extensive collection of warnings compared to the rest of the subforum, including the sheer number of short-term bans.

Up until now, with the relatively light-handed moderation we've had, those warnings used to expire in a way that kept the accumulation somewhat manageable. But with this new system? That’s not going to work. The worst trolls are going to rack up enough points for a major ban in no time at all, even without us having to resort to extreme measures.

For those of you sitting on a high number of points, maybe take this as a warning sign.

As for everyone else—who likely makes up the vast majority of you—just try not to bite when people provoke you. Just keep in mind that there might be stretches of a few hours where nobody responds; please just wait it out. That isn't an invitation to go playing vigilante. If you stay calm, it makes our lives easier, the chaos ends faster, and honestly, things are already looking a bit better. Once things settle down, we can probably relax the tone of the thread a little too, instead of feeling like we have to run a gulag. It's pretty obvious to us that many of you have been posting there for ages, and some of the back-and-forth banter isn't always worth a ban—sometimes it's just regular joking around.

If the state of this thread truly bothers you, then the most important thing you can do is help us fix it.

Jose White23 said:Honestly, all things considered, this thread is going great. If we’re talking about "grainology" versus actual trolling, I think we've missed the mark there. Every single one of you regular contributors here has a way more impressive collection of warnings than anyone else on the rest of the sub, and that includes the sheer number of short-term bans you've picked up.

With the way things were being moderated before, bans were handed out just enough to keep the peace and keep the community sustainable. But with this new approach? It’s going to be impossible to maintain that balance. The worst trolls are going to rack up enough points for long-term bans in no time, all without us even having to step in with the heavy-handed stuff.

Those of you with higher scores might want to give this some serious thought.

For those of you who don't consider yourselves part of that group—which, let's be honest, is probably most of you—please don't take the bait when people try to provoke you. Just keep in mind that there might be stretches of a few hours where nobody is around to moderate. If that happens, just hang tight; don't feel like you need to step up and play vigilante. If we stay cool, it’ll actually make things easier for us to clean up this mess, and honestly, the chaos is already starting to die down. Once things settle, we should be able to relax the tone of the thread a bit too. We aren't trying to run a prison camp here; we realize a lot of you have been posting for a long time, and we know that some of the back-and-forth isn't necessarily worth a ban—sometimes it's just people messing around.

If you’re actually bothered by how things are going in this thread, the ball is in your court. You're the one who can help us fix it.

It’s true that quite a few people have been handed red cards around here—myself included. Some of those strikes were just petty jabs, but most of them happened because people were being provoked by those usual trolls.

I know the moderators aren't online twenty-four/seven, but I also notice when a mod is actively posting in a thread while other posts just sit there without being moderated. For instance, Charles Fox10 gave me a warning because I told someone that what they were saying was just a bunch of empty clichés—I was actually responding to points like, "Can't we all just agree and fix the economy?"—and he flagged it as an ad hominem attack. 🤷So, I sent him a private message to follow up on my question, and he basically told me that the topic is now being "seriously moderated." My response? Well, let's just hope this 681st attempt actually sticks this time! 🙄 Look, Medjutim, it’s getting a bit ridiculous. Not long after this user "COD" starts nothing but pure provocation—posting troll videos and trying to stir the pot—he doesn't even get a ban. Instead, the moderator observer just issues one of those blue text warnings, and then the same guy just replies to it like nothing happened, completely without any actual sanctions. 🤷 Here we go again. It’s the exact same story—he gets unbanned for the second time and immediately starts walking down that same old path, recycling the same tired talking points about "SR" and "legitimacy." It's like he never learned a thing.
I filed a report, but nothing happened—the mod just kept posting within the same thread. So, I jumped in to respond, and then an Observer shows up and hands out a ban (which is exactly how it should be). Honestly, I wouldn’t even bring this all up if the same person wasn't sitting here announcing how this entire thread is going to be moderated from now on under these so-called "new rules."

I can't really complain about this. Honestly, the former moderator P. L. was way worse. We actually used to be pretty close in terms of our views and we chatted in DMs quite a bit, but the guy was completely off the mark. He’d hand out warnings for "spam" when he wasn't even catching the actual issues—it had nothing to do with spamming. Then, after just two hours, he’d go on this long-winded tangent about how much he was craving pies in Sarajevo, only to start dropping links to recipes for cheese bread and mashed potatoes a few minutes later... 🤷 😁 🤣I mean...

It’s honestly ridiculous. Every time another forum user spams the term "Greater Mexican" nine times in a single post, I’ll chime in with something like "big Muslim politics," and somehow *I'm* the one who gets reported? It always ends up being me getting hit with the ban while they get off scot-free. This has happened multiple times now, and it's just frustrating. 🤷

I honestly think the moderators are just as much to blame for this thread as anyone else—if not more—because they basically showed the trolls that they could get away with it.

The discussion is actually improving, but I can't help but wonder if it’s just going to be the usual thing where everyone loses interest after a few days...

Personally, though? I feel like threads like this can only ever function as a sort of half-gulag. ☕

Kevin Nelson said:If some other guy writes "Greater Mexican" nine times in a single post, I might snap back with something like "extreme Islamist policy," and then somehow I'm the one getting reported—and yeah, I'm the only one who gets banned. It’s happened to me more than once, actually.🤷

I can't speak to specific cases, but maybe someone just got an email notification about a report and reacted immediately. I mean, that’s definitely wrong because you really ought to look at the whole conversation first, but if there's a flood of reports and it's a moderator who isn't even following the thread, things like that happen.

I just want to say that the mods are just as much to blame—if not more—for this mess, because the trolls realized they could get away with it.

The thread is actually improving, but I guess we'll see if it's just the usual thing where it fizzles out after a few days...

We really started taking this seriously, so please, give us one more shot. Also, it's worth noting that right now, the Observer is probably the one who knows this subject best.

It took me quite a while to wrap my head around all the specific insults used in those internal Canada disputes. And honestly, you guys still manage to surprise me with stuff I didn't even know existed. 😁

Personally, I think these threads can only survive if they basically function like a half-gulag. ☕

We'll see. I really hope you're wrong about that.

There's another issue here. More than half of this thread is actually history. We're going into deep detail about different parts of the conflict. On other parts of the forum, discussions regarding the American Civil War are usually tied strictly to current events—like reacting to a controversial article, an indictment, or modern issues facing veterans.

You guys are being pretty thorough with material that might actually belong in a dedicated history thread. I'm not saying we should stop talking about it, but maybe we should think about splitting the topics up. A lot of the conflicts from Canada have already been covered over in the American Civil War subforum anyway.