Brazil vs. USA - Nov 7, 2010

stormybadger8 said:It feels almost impossible at this point. There are whispers going around suggesting that Christian Horner has completely lost his cool and is already planning to kick Webber to the curb regardless of whether he clinches the title or not—potentially immediately following the Abu Dhabi finale. To be perfectly honest, if he were running my team, he would have been shown the door a long time ago; after this debacle, he’ll definitely be out before the first practice session in Brazil even begins. I really don't see the point in waiting.☕

Well, that seems like the only logical path forward since he simply can't just toss them out of the team entirely right now.🙂

Personally, I find him to be a totally unlikable individual, but this specific reaction from his team doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual situation at hand.

Michael Lee4 said:Since you're forcing me to dig through this absolute garbage that already reeks enough🙄

So, all that "support" he got—besides the wisdom you just shared, including all those statements coming from his team and various big bosses... it was all incredibly encouraging and motivating. 👍

Damn, the guy is leading the championship and gets nothing but crap for support. That's how real teams operate. 🙏

🤣🤣🤣

And here I was thinking drivers drive race cars and actually need a fast, reliable machine.

Apparently, what they really need is a pat on the back like, "Felipe is our number one," or "Ferrari has always stood by Philip," or "Next season Philip will be the number one driver," blah blah blah.🤣

Seems to me like that Red Bull tactic works a hell of a lot better than the one you're rooting for.🤣

Chris Ortiz said:It’s the only logical move since he can't just kick them off the team.🙂

Look, I can't stand the guy, but his team's reaction to this mess has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

What reaction? You mean the team refusing to say clearly that Sebastian Vettel needs to let Webber pass and take the hit? That’s the reaction?

Or you mean they won't make Sebastian Vettel yield to Webber? Let's look at the facts here:

Sebastian Vettel was leading the championship after the last race and lost it because his engine blew—that's on the team.
Webber was leading the championship during that last race and lost it solely because of his own mistake—that's on Webber.

Why would the team penalize a driver they actually caused to lose the lead, just to help a driver who completely blew his own title chances?

Who's smart enough to realize that if Webber messes up again in Brazil or Abu Dhabi, Red Bull ordering Sebastian Vettel to move over just hands the title to the competition and ruins his own shot at winning.

Besides, screw whoever the champion is; nobody should be forced to pull over on track, regardless of who they are.☕

Red Bull's response is the only possible, sane one: "Our drivers are equals."

It’s the same deal at McLaren. Forget what's actually happening behind the scenes; the team has to state this officially. Everything you lot and the media are complaining about regarding Red Bull isn't even an official statement. I honestly don't get it, it makes no sense.😵

And your logic is just top-tier. Claiming Webber is being bullied because Red Bull won't order Sebastian Vettel to give him space? Truly the peak of hypocrisy and pure stupidity.🙏

That’s not even the same thing as last race... those drag issues tend to linger all season long, basically from one GP to the next...

But honestly, why am I even bothering to argue this with you when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about... I mean, your username pretty much says it all. Why would I expect anything remotely intelligent regarding this topic 😁 Just go grab a beer and step away from the keyboard... we can catch up on Sunday after 7 PM 😉

Michael Lee4 said:It’s not just some one-off thing from the last race... these issues drag on all season long, basically race after race...

But why the hell am I even trying to argue this with you when you're clearly clueless? It’s right there in your username. Why would I expect you to say anything remotely intelligent about this topic? 😁 Go grab a drink and get off the keyboard... let's talk Sunday after 7 PM. 😉

What’s dragging on is Webber asking Vettel to let him pass on track. 😂

And the reason Webber is getting shafted is because Red Bull won't force Vettel to do it, so just use your brain for once. 😉

That garbage Ferrari pulled on Mass was an insult. They should've been banned—Ferrari and Alonso out of Formula 1 for years. Same goes for any other team pulling stunts like that. ☕

And everyone conveniently forgets that last year Webber didn't lift a finger to help Vettel win the title; if anything, he took points away from him, even though he wasn't mathematically in it. And now we're supposed to believe he should be letting Webber past? Yeah, right.

Look... spoiler alert: those takes are pure ego-killers. It’s just amateur hour. I’m definitely not the only one who feels this way, and honestly, trying to argue with a Fettel fan is a complete waste of time. ☕

Seriously though, go grab a drink and step away from the keyboard.

Michael Lee4 said:Look... spoiler alert: some people just say things that absolutely kill your confidence. It's amateur hour over there. I’m definitely not the only one who feels this way, and honestly, trying to argue with a Fetlov fan is a complete waste of time. ☕

Seriously, go grab a beer and get off the keyboard.

Webber's spoiler is just one massive, pathetic letdown.🙏

First he claims he won't take the job because his setup is worse than the old one. Then they pull him off and stick him in the Vettelov car, and once he realizes what happened, he starts throwing a tantrum like a toddler whose friend grabbed their favorite toy. It doesn't matter that he refused to play with it in the first place—the second someone else wants a turn, he's looking for a fight. 🤣

By the way, you're actually pretty fun to argue with.😁

When you try to defend Webber, I just end up attacking him.

So you start throwing shade at Webber and trying to drag his name through the mud, and suddenly I'm the one jumping in to defend him.🤣

Always the opposite.🙏 I'm digging this.😁

I'd love to hit up the pub, but I really can't be bothered to go alone.😢

Besides, I’m a total pushover. My wife would absolutely kill me if I even thought about heading out for a Beer on a Friday night.🤣 She’s clearly making sure she doesn't have to lay eyes on me until Monday.😬

stormybadger8 said:Besides that, you can forget about any champion being allowed to overtake someone on the track, regardless of who they are.☕

So, in plain English: Gumbek is the only true world champion, right?

Webber actually has a legitimate shot at becoming the world champion, whereas Vettel's chances are practically non-existent. That's where the conversation ends for me.

Chris Ortiz said:Basically: Gumbek is the only real world champion, right?

Webber actually has a shot at the title. Vettel? He’s got a tiny, minuscule chance. End of story.

Alonso had a "tiny" chance before one race, a theoretical chance two or three races ago, and by the German GP, he basically had zero. And look where we are now.🙄

Vettel was leading the championship a few laps from the end of the last race. Before that, Hamilton and Alonso weren't even in the conversation. So what now?🙄

Why are they all back in the hunt—with Alonso actually looking best?—is because Webber messed up and Vettel's engine gave out. That's it.

The same crap can happen in the last two races. If Webber wants that trophy, he just needs to be the fastest and the best. Period.☕

If he tries to force it, he can start whining about being forced to let Button, Hamilton, or Massa pass. Because none of them have "real chances" anymore either.🙏

Who knows, maybe they won't let him pass at all.🙂

And as for Gumbek—it pains me to say this—but whoever wins the title this season, Gumbekov's exit will be more deserved. It sounds crazy, but damn if that isn't how it'll go.

stormybadger8 said:The way Ferrari handled Massa was an absolute disgrace. Honestly, they should’ve been banned from Formula 1 along with Alonso for a good few years. That’s how you handle it. Every single team that pulls stunts like that needs to face the same kind of consequences.☕

What a complete disaster.
Ferrari did Massa a massive favor here. They handed him a golden ticket to actually justify that massive paycheck they're cutting for him. It’s his shot to finally be useful for once.
Massa can basically worship at the altar of Ferrari for everything they've done for him.

Grow up already. Formula 1 is a team sport. Nobody sinks hundreds of millions of dollars just so one guy can strut around acting like he won it all alone. When a driver takes the title, the whole team wins it. Sure, the Constructors' Championship is great, but let’s be real—it’s secondary to the main story.

stormybadger8 said:Alonso had almost nothing before one race, then he had a theoretical shot two or three races later, and by the time we hit Germany, he was basically out of the running. So, where does that leave us now?🙄

That's just your take, and if you ask me, you're way off base. But hey, I'm a fan, so I'll admit I'm biased.
That's why this place actually works. We have actual experts here who called it long before that last race—people who laid out a perfectly logical case for why Alonso is the frontrunner for the title. I still remember what Joe and DMJ were saying about it. They saw it coming.

stormybadger8 said:Vettel was sitting pretty at the top of the standings just a few laps before the end of that last race. Before all that went down, Hamilton and Alonso weren't even in his rearview mirror. Now? Who knows. Everything changed.🙄

And what position did Vettel finish in? Wasn't he tied with Alons on points?
Go ahead and poke fun at the people you can't stand, but for God's sake, don't overdo it.

Roger Wright94 said:What a joke.
Ferrari did Massa a massive favor. They gave him a shot at actually justifying that huge paycheck. Gave him a chance to finally be useful for once.
Massa should probably just bow down to Ferrari for everything they've done for him.

Grow up already! Formula 1 is a team sport. Nobody drops hundreds of millions just so one guy can brag about a trophy. A driver winning is a win for the whole team. The Constructors' title is great, sure, but it's secondary to the big picture.

It's a realistic take, unfortunately, but honestly? It's just gross.

Mainly because it’s incredibly hypocritical. In every single team, the faster driver gets the No. 1 treatment. If Vettel had been running free, he would've clinched the title ages ago since Webber is slower. If Webber had been forced to let Vettel through from the start—just like how Massa handles Alonso right now—the math would look like this:

Vettel +7+7 + 25 from Turkey (not even counting all those other races where people get shoved on the start line) = Vettel likely wins the championship with 255 points.

But if Vettel had somehow missed chances to pass Webber from the jump, we'd be looking at:
Webber + 10 (Turkey) + 7+2+3+7 = Webber at 29... wait, no, Webber + 29 = 249, likely taking the title.

Honestly, neither scenario appeals to me. Watching this mess unfold is way more entertaining anyway.🤣

If every team acted like Ferrari, nobody would even bother watching Formula 1.😉

The only reason Ferrari makes sense is because they're the outliers. If everyone behaved like them, the sport would be painfully boring and predictable. I could probably recite the race results from memory before they even happen.🤣

Roger Wright94 said:That’s just your take, and honestly, you're dead wrong. But hey, I'm a fan, so call me biased if you want.
There are plenty of smart people and actual Formula 1 experts here who predicted—and actually had logical reasons to back up—that Alonso was the number one title contender long before this last race. I remember Joe and DMJ saying it, at least.

And where did Vettel even stand? Wasn't he tied with Alonso on points?
Go ahead and mock the guys you don't like, but don't overdo it.

They were both basically out of the running at the exact same time.😉

We were arguing about this very thing last race. Now, miraculously, Alonso has an advantage that Vettel would've had too if his engine hadn't died on him. That's my take.😉

The Best NFL player said:What Ferrari did to Mass was an absolute disgrace. They should have been banned from the league along with Alonso for several years. Honestly, any team pulling stunts like that deserves the same treatment.☕

Just thinking out loud here... over the last five seasons, championships have basically been decided by team orders.

Fisichella has played puppet master for Alonso, Mass Kimi, Kovalainen Hamilton, and even Baričelo Button last year.

Look back fifteen seasons? You'll find the exact same pattern. 😉

If Red Bull is operating with the same mindset you are, they might as well pack it up now. They’ll never secure a driver's title that way. 🤦

Then there's the issue of Red Bull being incapable of actually executing their own team orders, which is why we see all this mess—and the fans joining in on the whining.

McLaren didn't complain about the flexibility of those RedBullov or Ferrarijev wings because they're playing fair; they complained because they couldn't engineer a wing that flexible themselves.😉

And I don't doubt for a second that Ferrari will follow their team orders during this race. They'll use them to clinch the championship, and there is zero chance anyone gets penalized for it.. 😉

The pace in Practice 2 was intense, you can tell just by looking at the standings. It felt almost like qualifying sessions were already happening.
The power gap is exactly what I feared—totally predictable.
And once again, there's that massive, frustrating gap between the top three and the rest of the pack.

Joshua Newman2 said:I caught wind somewhere that Lucas DiGrassi can't stand someone, but I can't recall who.
Is it that kid Senna or what?

Yeah, Lucas DiGrassi and Bruno Senna are sworn enemies. It goes way back to IndyCar, even before they really hit the big leagues here in the States.

Roger Wright94 said:They clearly went all out in Practice 2, looking at those standings. It felt almost like qualifying.
The power levels are predictable, just like I thought they'd be.
And once again, there's a massive gap between the top three and everyone else.

Any word on whether we're looking at rain tomorrow or the day after?

Michael Lee4 said:Any word on whether we're looking at rain tomorrow or the day after?

Every forecast looks the same. Rain seems pretty much guaranteed for Saturday, while Sunday should stay dry.

stormybadger8 Asks:
If every single team on the grid acted like Ferrari, I honestly don't think anyone would be left alive to watch Formula 1. It just wouldn't happen.😉

What if we actually did it? Imagine a Ferrari F1 Cup where you have twenty identical red cars lined up on the starting grid, all perfectly matched. And then, you put them in the hands of... I don't even know... maybe Kubica, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Schumacher, Hamilton, and Montoya? Just to see who truly holds the title of the best driver among them. Wouldn't that be the ultimate test? 😈

Frank Collins85 Asks:
What if we actually did it—the Ferrari F1 Cup—with twenty identical red cars lined up on the grid, driven by legends like Kubica, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Schumacher, Hamilton, and Montoya... just to finally settle once and for all who the better driver really is? 😈

It’s a great concept—though, if I were calling the shots, I wouldn't hand them a Ferrari. I’d probably give them something much more difficult to manage, like an old Minardi, just to see who can actually push the limits without tearing the car apart. 👍