The Jules Bianchi accident

Keith Moore21 said:I mean, when you really sit back and look at it, it’s just mind-blowing that he’s even still with us... that footage is absolutely brutal, honestly just horrific 😢

Hang in there, Bianchi 🙂

Yeah, the impact force was insane, pretty grim to watch 😢 And I guess it would be a genuine miracle if he manages to come out of this without serious long-term issues... :/
The mere fact that he didn't die at the track is probably the best proof of how impressive all these modern safety measures—from HANS to the helmet and the car itself—actually are.

But like Gary mentioned, we've grown somewhat accustomed to seeing terrifying crashes in Formula 1 (just think about Kubica in Canada, or Webber in Spain), where drivers would practically walk away from the wreckage almost unscathed... And it's not just us getting used to it; the drivers themselves have too, and it's not impossible to imagine they might have become a bit too complacent regarding the safety provided by all these modern systems... It's just human nature, especially considering how hyper-focused everyone is on competitiveness and results. Honestly, that's usually what we value most about them anyway, rather than any concern for their own safety on track. In fact, if we actually notice a driver prioritizing safety, it's rarely seen in a positive light; instead, they get mocked as being "soft" or told they aren't "real racers."

Just look at the amount of mockery Massa faced regarding this incident, which still follows him today, simply because he yelled that he couldn't see anything and couldn't drive like that... (And the radio response he got back was telling—stay cool... we are in a good position, which basically means your safety isn't the priority right now, the track position is 😉 Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think I see the point...

Even now after this race, following his statement that even before Jules's accident, he had been shouting over the team radio about how much water was on the track, fans just react with: "Oh, Massa, he's always complaining and whining 🙄" But drivers don't live in a vacuum; all those factors definitely affect them psychologically, which then naturally impacts their driving behavior...

So, what I'm trying to say is that (imho) it feels a little unrealistic and unfair to start questioning why Bianchi didn't slow down more under yellow flags and such, if we know how often we ourselves interpret those kinds of actions negatively, viewing drivers as weaklings or "show ponies" instead of "true racers," and so on...

Which is why it seems to me that if we really want to go looking for someone to blame, maybe we should start by looking in the mirror... 😉

cosmicridge5 said:Yeah, the impact force was insane, pretty grim to watch 😢 And I guess it would be a genuine miracle if he manages to come out of this without serious long-term issues... :/
The mere fact that he didn't die at the track is probably the best proof of how impressive all these modern safety measures—from HANS to the helmet and the car itself—actually are.

But like Gary mentioned, we've grown somewhat accustomed to seeing terrifying crashes in Formula 1 (just think about Kubica in Canada, or Webber in Spain), where drivers would practically walk away from the wreckage almost unscathed... And it's not just us getting used to it; the drivers themselves have too, and it's not impossible to imagine they might have become a bit too complacent regarding the safety provided by all these modern systems... It's just human nature, especially considering how hyper-focused everyone is on competitiveness and results. Honestly, that's usually what we value most about them anyway, rather than any concern for their own safety on track. In fact, if we actually notice a driver prioritizing safety, it's rarely seen in a positive light; instead, they get mocked as being "soft" or told they aren't "real racers."

Just look at the amount of mockery Massa faced regarding this incident, which still follows him today, simply because he yelled that he couldn't see anything and couldn't drive like that... (And the radio response he got back was telling—stay cool... we are in a good position, which basically means your safety isn't the priority right now, the track position is 😉 Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think I see the point...

Even now after this race, following his statement that even before Jules's accident, he had been shouting over the team radio about how much water was on the track, fans just react with: "Oh, Massa, he's always complaining and whining 🙄" But drivers don't live in a vacuum; all those factors definitely affect them psychologically, which then naturally impacts their driving behavior...

So, what I'm trying to say is that (imho) it feels a little unrealistic and unfair to start questioning why Bianchi didn't slow down more under yellow flags and such, if we know how often we ourselves interpret those kinds of actions negatively, viewing drivers as weaklings or "show ponies" instead of "true racers," and so on...

Which is why it seems to me that if we really want to go looking for someone to blame, maybe we should start by looking in the mirror... 😉

yeah, I agree, it's easy for us armchair experts on a forum to just talk big... like, I remember the first time I saw cockpit camera footage—this was ages ago, obviously—it was raining, and I thought, "Man, they shouldn't even be out there in the rain..." You can barely see an inch in front of you, let alone when you've got God knows how many cars flying ahead of you... at those speeds... I'm genuinely impressed and surprised there aren't even more accidents in the rain... man, those conditions are just impossible, from a visual standpoint to car control and everything else...

cosmicridge5 said:Yeah, the impact force was insane, pretty grim to watch 😢 And I guess it would be a genuine miracle if he manages to come out of this without serious long-term issues... :/
The mere fact that he didn't die at the track is probably the best proof of how impressive all these modern safety measures—from HANS to the helmet and the car itself—actually are.

But like Gary mentioned, we've grown somewhat accustomed to seeing terrifying crashes in Formula 1 (just think about Kubica in Canada, or Webber in Spain), where drivers would practically walk away from the wreckage almost unscathed... And it's not just us getting used to it; the drivers themselves have too, and it's not impossible to imagine they might have become a bit too complacent regarding the safety provided by all these modern systems... It's just human nature, especially considering how hyper-focused everyone is on competitiveness and results. Honestly, that's usually what we value most about them anyway, rather than any concern for their own safety on track. In fact, if we actually notice a driver prioritizing safety, it's rarely seen in a positive light; instead, they get mocked as being "soft" or told they aren't "real racers."

Just look at the amount of mockery Massa faced regarding this incident, which still follows him today, simply because he yelled that he couldn't see anything and couldn't drive like that... (And the radio response he got back was telling—stay cool... we are in a good position, which basically means your safety isn't the priority right now, the track position is 😉 Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think I see the point...

Even now after this race, following his statement that even before Jules's accident, he had been shouting over the team radio about how much water was on the track, fans just react with: "Oh, Massa, he's always complaining and whining 🙄" But drivers don't live in a vacuum; all those factors definitely affect them psychologically, which then naturally impacts their driving behavior...

So, what I'm trying to say is that (imho) it feels a little unrealistic and unfair to start questioning why Bianchi didn't slow down more under yellow flags and such, if we know how often we ourselves interpret those kinds of actions negatively, viewing drivers as weaklings or "show ponies" instead of "true racers," and so on...

Which is why it seems to me that if we really want to go looking for someone to blame, maybe we should start by looking in the mirror... 😉

That all holds up, but let’s be clear: the track conditions weren't the issue, and neither was the car leaving the circuit. The sole, absolute reason this happened was that excavator. It had no business being there.

Look, the whole situation is complicated. In theory, this kind of disaster could happen during a dry race under perfect conditions—no heavy machinery required. One car breaks down and pulls off onto the apron, the yellow flags fly, and then the marshals head out to push the car out of harm's way. Then, suddenly, another car comes barreling down the track—maybe due to a brake failure—and slams right into them. Boom.

So, you're looking at a constant probability—tiny, sure, but it’s there. Now you’re just multiplying the sheer catastrophe of that outcome by sending some damn excavators out onto the track...

The issue is simply this...

The fallout is that, from here on out, any time a driver goes off and the car stays within "reach," we’re going to see a Safety Car.

And honestly? That's how it should be.

If Bianchi had been running this setup on his car, maybe the whole situation wouldn't have turned out so disastrously...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116206

steelmaker83 said:If Bianchi had been running this setup on his car, maybe the whole situation wouldn't have turned out so disastrously...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116206

Only if it ends up looking like this—but even then, it kind of messes with the whole concept of Formula 1 for me. I mean, at the end of the day, it's open-cockpit racing, and that’s how it should stay, right?

jadeseal7 said:

According to Wikipedia, diffuse axonal injury (DAI) stands out as one of the most frequent—and honestly, most heartbreaking—kinds of traumatic brain injury out there.

The reality is quite grim: it often leads to a coma, where more than 90% of people suffering from severe DAI never actually regain consciousness. Even for those lucky enough to wake up, they are usually left facing significant, long-term impairments.

The issue is that we don't actually have any concrete data regarding his specific injuries, so at this stage, it's impossible to make any real predictions—even if we were neurosurgeons or neurologists, let alone just reading Wikipedia. Even his own doctors, who have access to his scans and are managing his care, probably can't offer much of a specific prognosis yet (unless the findings are catastrophic), mostly because traumatic brain injuries are just incredibly complex when it comes to both treatment and predicting the level of recovery.

What we do know for sure is that as soon as we are dealing with a severe traumatic brain injury, as is unfortunately the case here (meaning when the Glasgow Coma Scale score is under 8—which is the scale used to initially assess coma depth and roughly gauge injury severity alongside CT scans), the outlook is already by definition relatively grim in terms of full recovery without serious long-term consequences. That’s really the first and most basic thing to keep in mind when discussing recovery from these kinds of brain injuries. Basically, just knowing that the injury is classified as severe (unlike moderate or mild cases) means we are almost certainly looking at a very long recovery process. It's a process—not like in the movies where a patient just "wakes up" one day and is back to their old self—and unfortunately, in these situations, there are almost always some lasting effects, which can range from relatively minor to very severe.

Btw, I mentioned this before on shumiev's thread, but if anyone wants a better understanding of what these severe traumatic brain injuries entail and what the recovery looks like, I highly recommend downloading and watching The Crash Reel. It's a documentary about Kevin Pearce, who suffered an injury just like this. It does a great job explaining the reality of the situation and what recovery actually looks like in these circumstances.

steelmaker83 said:If Bianchi had been running this setup on his car, maybe the whole situation wouldn't have turned out so disastrously...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116206

With an impact force that heavy—where the car literally tosses a 6-ton hunk of iron aside—do you really think an extra inch or two of Lexan would have changed anything?

And in Jules Bianchi's case, where would that reinforced metal structure even end up?

Jason Campbell70 said:With an impact force that heavy—where the car literally tosses a 6-ton hunk of iron aside—do you really think an extra inch or two of Lexan would have changed anything?

And in Jules Bianchi's case, where would that reinforced metal structure even end up?

The link I shared doesn't actually show Lexan; it's just a steel structure. Would it make a difference? Who knows. Maybe.

The closed cockpit changes the entire essence of Formula 1, and honestly, I’m not convinced the concept is actually any good. It just makes everything more complicated. Getting a driver out of the car becomes much harder, and if there’s a fire—which, let’s face it, happens way too often in this sport—trying to scramble out of that thing could be a nightmare. At the end of the day, you have to wonder if this design is actually helping anyone or if it’s just creating a whole new set of problems...

Pato, are you actually a doctor or just some wannabe trying too hard to act like one...

steelmaker83 said:That all holds up, but let’s be clear: the track conditions weren't the issue, and neither was the car leaving the circuit. The sole, absolute reason this happened was that excavator. It had no business being there.

Look, the whole situation is complicated. In theory, this kind of disaster could happen during a dry race under perfect conditions—no heavy machinery required. One car breaks down and pulls off onto the apron, the yellow flags fly, and then the marshals head out to push the car out of harm's way. Then, suddenly, another car comes barreling down the track—maybe due to a brake failure—and slams right into them. Boom.

So, you're looking at a constant probability—tiny, sure, but it’s there. Now you’re just multiplying the sheer catastrophe of that outcome by sending some damn excavators out onto the track...

The issue is simply this...

The fallout is that, from here on out, any time a driver goes off and the car stays within "reach," we’re going to see a Safety Car.

And honestly? That's how it should be.

I suppose I agree that the worst part was him hitting that excavator—basically slamming into a multi-ton heap of iron that these cars simply aren't designed to collide with, let alone survive.

It’s definitely a much better setup to have recovery teams using a crane, like they do in Monaco, while the heavy machinery stays safely behind the barriers. I imagine we'll either see more of that moving forward, or perhaps mandatory safety cars whenever situations like this pop up.

Though, knowing myself, I’ll probably think twice the next time I find myself groaning or rolling my eyes at a safety car deployment... and I probably won't even go as far as making fun of baby Felipe anymore.😬

By the way, the whole thing is pretty complicated. In theory, this kind of mess could happen during a bone-dry race with perfect conditions, even without an excavator involved. A car breaks down, stops near the track, yellow flags fly, marshals head out to push the car, and then—bam—another car hits them because of, say, brake failure.

So, it’s a constant possibility, however slim, and now you’re just multiplying the potential for catastrophe by sending massive excavators onto the track...

That’s just how it goes; us humans mostly learn through our own mistakes. We tend to operate on the assumption that luck will be on our side, rather than acknowledging that it might not be (which is what we should actually be doing). I think I read somewhere—maybe here, maybe elsewhere on the web—about one of those old-school drivers complaining about having to wait for a guardrail to be repaired after a crash, arguing that the odds of someone else hitting that exact same spot were basically zero.😬

steelmaker83 said:The link I shared doesn't actually show Lexan; it's just a steel structure. Would it make a difference? Who knows. Maybe.

It would. An impact like that would drive a steel structure straight into Bianchi's chest.

And where the steering wheel and column would end up? I'll leave that part to your imagination.

Jason Campbell70 said:With an impact force that heavy—where the car literally tosses a 6-ton hunk of iron aside—do you really think an extra inch or two of Lexan would have changed anything?

And in Jules Bianchi's case, where would that reinforced metal structure even end up?

Right inside Bianchi's skull—just like how that Williams front right suspension ended up in Senna's head.

There’s no magic fix here—unless they actually define what "driver behavior under yellow flags" means. I'm thinking the rulebook needs to be crystal clear. Like, "Drive 60mph." Not this esoteric nonsense they have now where they say "reduce speed"—which basically means nothing at all.

But driving 60mph versus 80mph? Now that actually means something.

Because let's face it, drivers aren't exactly geniuses. Sid Watkins once said everyone's an idiot.

And an idiot needs instructions that are exact and impossible to misunderstand.

ruggedhawk20 said:Right inside Bianchi's skull—just like how that Williams front right suspension ended up in Senna's head.

There’s no magic fix here—unless they actually define what "driver behavior under yellow flags" means. I'm thinking the rulebook needs to be crystal clear. Like, "Drive 60mph." Not this esoteric nonsense they have now where they say "reduce speed"—which basically means nothing at all.

But driving 60mph versus 80mph? Now that actually means something.

Because let's face it, drivers aren't exactly geniuses. Sid Watkins once said everyone's an idiot.

And an idiot needs instructions that are exact and impossible to misunderstand.

That was exactly the point.
It would have literally split him in two.

ruggedhawk20 said:Right inside Bianchi's skull—just like how that Williams front right suspension ended up in Senna's head.

There’s no magic fix here—unless they actually define what "driver behavior under yellow flags" means. I'm thinking the rulebook needs to be crystal clear. Like, "Drive 60mph." Not this esoteric nonsense they have now where they say "reduce speed"—which basically means nothing at all.

But driving 60mph versus 80mph? Now that actually means something.

Because let's face it, drivers aren't exactly geniuses. Sid Watkins once said everyone's an idiot.

And an idiot needs instructions that are exact and impossible to misunderstand.

It wouldn't be a problem to cap the car's top speed using "double telemetry."

So when a driver sees the yellow flag signal on the steering wheel, the engine automatically hits some kind of yellow flag limiter.

Something similar to the pit lane speed limiter.

Otherwise, at Suzuki, this will just lead to Safety Cars being deployed for the tiniest little things.

Jason Campbell70 said:That was exactly the point.
It would have literally split him in two.

It wouldn't be a problem to cap the car's top speed using "double telemetry."

So when a driver sees the yellow flag signal on the steering wheel, the engine automatically hits some kind of yellow flag limiter.

Something similar to the pit lane speed limiter.

Otherwise, at Suzuki, this will just lead to Safety Cars being deployed for the tiniest little things.

That idea actually raises a massive question

What’s even the point of having a driver at all then? There’s gotta be a line—even now, the pit wall controls way too much. Where’s the actual racing? Drivers are basically just passengers at this point, letting an operator tell them when to steer left or right.

gentlecobra23 said:The closed cockpit changes the entire essence of Formula 1, and honestly, I’m not convinced the concept is actually any good. It just makes everything more complicated. Getting a driver out of the car becomes much harder, and if there’s a fire—which, let’s face it, happens way too often in this sport—trying to scramble out of that thing could be a nightmare. At the end of the day, you have to wonder if this design is actually helping anyone or if it’s just creating a whole new set of problems...

Pato, are you actually a doctor or just some wannabe trying too hard to act like one...

I'm not a doctor, but here are my medical qualifications regarding this specific field:
- Aside from being a hypochondriac (and, naturally, an irritatingly pedantic know-it-all 😁), I’ve dealt with a TBI (traumatic brain injury 😁) myself, so I did some digging. Plus, my grandmother—who is a doctor—constantly nags me about it because I've had three concussions in my life. Apparently, that's a disaster because every subsequent hit significantly increases the odds (even if it's a minor bump or injury) of facing disproportionately severe consequences. Things like rising intracranial pressure or developing edema, which, unlike a hematoma, is much rarer and usually requires a harder impact to trigger. But supposedly, once you've had a TBI, any further head trauma could theoretically cause you to kick the bucket from a relatively weak blow. At least that's how my grandma paranoically drills it into me; she'd probably ban me from leaving my bed without a helmet 🤣. That said, I've listened enough on the subject to know what I'm talking about, even if I didn't go to med school 😁

Also, unlike Jožica, I don't typically make a habit of just blathering things blindly, so if I'm not sure about something, I'll definitely mention it in my post 🙏 😁

btw, just to illustrate, my mildest head injury—and the shortest amount of time I was unconscious—is something I'll never forget. You literally feel your brain shifting inside your skull; it's pretty terrifying. This also happens during sudden deceleration, where the brain bounces left and right inside the cranium, and no helmet can save you from that. When high forces are involved, that movement causes the brain tissue to essentially "stretch" and tear internally. Helmets don't protect against acceleration/deceleration, so you can sustain a brain injury without ever actually hitting anything; because of that sudden deceleration, the brain keeps moving and slams against the inner walls of the skull. Then the tissue and blood vessels just snap when those wild forces are at play...

gentlecobra23 said:The closed cockpit changes the entire essence of Formula 1, and honestly, I’m not convinced the concept is actually any good. It just makes everything more complicated. Getting a driver out of the car becomes much harder, and if there’s a fire—which, let’s face it, happens way too often in this sport—trying to scramble out of that thing could be a nightmare. At the end of the day, you have to wonder if this design is actually helping anyone or if it’s just creating a whole new set of problems...

Pato, are you actually a doctor or just some wannabe trying too hard to act like one...

First off, we need to get drivers to actually follow the rules already on the books. We need to create an atmosphere where following them feels non-negotiable... like they're sacred scripture. For instance, everyone knows you don't freaking overtake the medical car on track 😁 But maybe the rules need to be more explicit. Instead of leaving it up to their discretion—which clearly leads to the kind of interpretation Gary describes on his blog—they should just mandate that under yellow flags, speed must drop to a specific limit, and that’s that.

Beyond that, I think it would be smart to have the safety crew deploy every single time one of those heavy metal chunks flies off and hits a car where possible. Either that, or find a better way to extract them altogether.

Honestly, Hans did more harm than good here—the energy that should’ve gone into snapping the neck just stayed trapped in the skull and pulverized the brain. Pure physics.

ruggedhawk20 said:Honestly, it’s not nearly as bad as I thought before seeing the photo.

Bianchi basically just scraped against the excavator

Unlike Villota, who slammed straight into a truck

The difference is massive—Villota's car stopped dead, sending all that impact energy right into his helmet after it clipped the truck's ramp

Bianchi’s helmet just grazed the excavator—way less energy transferred into his head

You can tell just by looking at the helmet itself

While Villota’s helmet was crushed—along with everything underneath it

Seeing this pic actually gives me a bit of optimism regarding my predictions.

Before I saw the shot, I was certain the crash was fatal.

This is in the same realm as Schumacher's injury—with one huge distinction: Bianchi got surgery immediately. Unlike Schumacher, who waited too long—which is exactly why he’s still sleeping and will be until the end.

ruggedhawk20 said:Honestly, Hans did more harm than good here—the energy that should’ve gone into snapping the neck just stayed trapped in the skull and pulverized the brain. Pure physics.

Energy enters the helmet, much less energy enters the helmet, energy stays trapped inside the head.

Sure. Pure physics.

Jason Campbell70 said:Energy enters the helmet, much less energy enters the helmet, energy stays trapped inside the head.

Sure. Pure physics.

you buying into that theory?

The theory is that without the HANS device, brain injuries might actually be less severe—since the energy would just dissipate through the neck instead