Dutch GP (Santa Monica) - September 3-5, 2021

graniteharbor502 said:

frozenheron7 As if anyone could have truly predicted the sheer complexity of what we are witnessing right now, isn't it? One finds oneself staring at the screen, wondering how these variables align so perfectly—or perhaps, how they fail so spectacularly. Is it merely luck, or is there some deeper, more intricate design at play within the mechanics of the sport itself? It makes one wonder, doesn't it?
So, we find ourselves contemplating the reality of the mid-tier driver, don't we? One has to wonder what it truly feels like to exist in that particular purgatory of professional racing—not quite reaching the heights of greatness, yet far from being a complete failure. Is there a certain quiet dignity in being merely adequate, or is it simply a slow, steady march toward irrelevance?
If one were to consider the sheer caliber of that particular car, wouldn't it be fair to suggest that even someone like Mazepin might have found himself sitting comfortably in fourth place in the standings?

Is it not a curious thing how we perceive talent in this sport? One might find themselves pondering whether Sergio Perez truly stands on equal footing with Bottas, or perhaps even possesses a superior edge as a driver.

Sam Clark75 As if we haven't seen this pattern before, right? It seems like everyone is just waiting for the inevitable, isn't it? One wonders if there is any actual substance behind these claims, or if we are all simply caught in the same cycle of expectation and disappointment that defines so much of our modern life. Is it possible that we are looking at this through too narrow a lens? Perhaps. But then again, one must consider the implications of what is being said, even if the delivery leaves much to be desired.
Indeed, one cannot help but notice the stark contrast when looking at Mercedes, where they actually maintained a sense of continuity by keeping the same second driver for five full years rather than swapping them out halfway through a season. Is it not much more logical to build around a consistent partnership? 🙄

Last year, George Russell stepped into that car on short notice for a race, and isn't it just remarkable how he managed to secure a spot right there on the front row?

Look, Bottas brings consistency to the table. Perez has never had it, and he's never going to have it.

Sam Clark75 As it were stated by:
If they have successfully narrowed that speed deficit, then we must logically conclude that the car is inherently faster now; which, in turn, implies that in a specific—yet absolutely vital—aspect of Formula 1 performance, the car is objectively superior to how it sat last year. It is a realization one eventually has to face, isn't it? You might try to argue against it, or perhaps attempt to frame it in a more complicated way, but you ultimately have to admit the truth, even if you do so circuitously. Once the data confirms this shift, there really is no turning back.

If he manages to pull off a few truly stellar drives in a row, one has to wonder if Sergio Perez will simply sit back and wait for an apology, wouldn't you agree? 😁

What exactly are we discussing here? One must consider that the cars are fundamentally different from last season, especially since the regulations were adjusted specifically to shave about 10% off the downforce levels. While the gap between Mercedes and Red Bull has narrowed significantly, I still find myself thinking that the Mercedes remains the superior machine when you look at the broader picture. It seems certain tracks favor Red Bull, while others clearly lend themselves to Mercedes. However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, quite frequently, Max finds himself standing alone in a duel against both Mercedes drivers. And despite that immense pressure, he simply commits far fewer errors than Lewis does. In my estimation, Max is head and shoulders above anyone else currently sitting on the grid.

Elizabeth Mendoza said:Look, Bottas brings consistency to the table. Perez has never had it, and he's never going to have it.

I find myself unable to agree with that sentiment. If I were in a position to manage a Formula 1 team and found myself tasked with the difficult decision of selecting one of them for my roster, would I not naturally lean toward hiring Perez first?

If Bottas needs to finish third, he’s going to be third. If you tell him to settle for fifth, he’ll take fifth. The guy just has this incredible consistency and composure.

Then you've got Perez, who's basically kicking the bucket—missing qualifying, wrecking his car, starting from the pits, and then driving like a maniac the whole race just to scrape into the points. It’s a total circus every single weekend.

Bottas is smooth like a waltz, while Perez is pure death metal. For Perez, everything is just one long "recovery drive."

graniteharbor502 said:

Sam Clark75 As it were stated by:
If they have successfully narrowed that speed deficit, then we must logically conclude that the car is inherently faster now; which, in turn, implies that in a specific—yet absolutely vital—aspect of Formula 1 performance, the car is objectively superior to how it sat last year. It is a realization one eventually has to face, isn't it? You might try to argue against it, or perhaps attempt to frame it in a more complicated way, but you ultimately have to admit the truth, even if you do so circuitously. Once the data confirms this shift, there really is no turning back.

If he manages to pull off a few truly stellar drives in a row, one has to wonder if Sergio Perez will simply sit back and wait for an apology, wouldn't you agree? 😁

What exactly are we discussing here? One must consider that the cars are fundamentally different from last season, especially since the regulations were adjusted specifically to shave about 10% off the downforce levels. While the gap between Mercedes and Red Bull has narrowed significantly, I still find myself thinking that the Mercedes remains the superior machine when you look at the broader picture. It seems certain tracks favor Red Bull, while others clearly lend themselves to Mercedes. However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, quite frequently, Max finds himself standing alone in a duel against both Mercedes drivers. And despite that immense pressure, he simply commits far fewer errors than Lewis does. In my estimation, Max is head and shoulders above anyone else currently sitting on the grid.

I find myself unable to agree with that sentiment. If I were in a position to manage a Formula 1 team and found myself tasked with the difficult decision of selecting one of them for my roster, would I not naturally lean toward hiring Perez first?

You're basically just talking to yourself at this point. Is the Red Bull car better than the Mercedes compared to last year? It's a simple yes or no question—and the answer is yes.

I don't see the big deal with just admitting this year's success is a mix of Max's insane driving and the fact that their car actually improved over the Mercedes from last season. I'm not here to fanboy over any driver—call me what you want, but I'm not going to twist reality just to claim one guy is "better than anyone else on the grid." Go ahead and keep barking if you want, but don't expect everyone to jump on board with you.

Sam Clark75 said:Spot on. Back when Max couldn't touch Lujo for anything, everyone claimed it was just because Lujo had a dominant car and a glorified wingman. Now that he’s routinely beating him in a faster machine, suddenly it proves he’s some mega talent. Logic is flawless—if you're looking for someone to worship.

As for Bottas, yeah, Mercedes absolutely screwed him over. But if he actually knew how to play it aggressive? Nah. He isn't proactive at all—just a passive observer watching his own downfall. He'll probably coast through his contract at Alfa and then retire thinking he was the best. The best damn sidekick Lujo ever had, but whatever. Someone had to fill that role, I guess.

Comparing last year's Red Bull to anything from Mercedes (or any other team) is night and day. These two cars are incredibly, INCREDIBLY close—I can't remember the last time they were this matched up. And Max is driving perfectly (which is something you just can't say about Hamilton right now).

He should have fallen out of the top 10 at Indianapolis after that off-track adventure, and he made a massive amateur mistake in Baku, not to mention that understeer issue at Silverstone that sent him crashing into Max. Bottom line: this year, it's crystal clear that Max is driving at, I don't know, a 10/10 level—almost flawless, sovereign, and intense. Hamilton is fast, sure, but he's making way too many mistakes. He's just not on Max's level this season; I think we can all agree on that.

Sam Clark75 said:You're basically just talking to yourself at this point. Is the Red Bull car better than the Mercedes compared to last year? It's a simple yes or no question—and the answer is yes.

I don't see the big deal with just admitting this year's success is a mix of Max's insane driving and the fact that their car actually improved over the Mercedes from last season. I'm not here to fanboy over any driver—call me what you want, but I'm not going to twist reality just to claim one guy is "better than anyone else on the grid." Go ahead and keep barking if you want, but don't expect everyone to jump on board with you.

I am certainly not contradicting myself. My position remains that Mercedes still possesses the superior machine, though I will concede that Red Bull has narrowed the gap significantly. Where exactly did I suggest otherwise?? 🙄

Sam Clark75 said:You're basically just talking to yourself at this point. Is the Red Bull car better than the Mercedes compared to last year? It's a simple yes or no question—and the answer is yes.

I don't see the big deal with just admitting this year's success is a mix of Max's insane driving and the fact that their car actually improved over the Mercedes from last season. I'm not here to fanboy over any driver—call me what you want, but I'm not going to twist reality just to claim one guy is "better than anyone else on the grid." Go ahead and keep barking if you want, but don't expect everyone to jump on board with you.

I have merely expressed my perspective. Whether you choose to align with it or not is entirely up to you, but I find it quite easy to provide further argumentation without resorting to personal feelings or "sympathy." I have never particularly cared for Max, yet one must admit that the man is currently untouchable in Formula 1.

graniteharbor502 said:One really has to wonder about the true extent of how "dominant" the Red Bull car actually is when one considers the recent results put forth by Checo Perez.

Yeah, it’s true that you said that—but it’s just as true that you're dodging the fact that Red Bull closing the gap on Mercedes is exactly why Max keeps pulling ahead this season. You keep trying to pin everything on his talent and saying he's the best on the grid, but you're ignoring the hardware.

Max is the exact same driver he was last season—it's just that the car is better compared to Mercedes than it used to be. If he wins the championship this year, it'll be because the car improved. That's just a straight-up fact, whether people like it or not.

You’re mixing up cold facts with your own gut feeling. Facts are things you can actually verify—you know? And there is no way to prove that Max hasn't changed since last year. Only he knows the truth about that.
Look, I'll go ahead and say he isn't the same. He's a year older and a year more experienced, sure, but that's just my take on it.

Amy Castillo4 said:You’re mixing up cold facts with your own gut feeling. Facts are things you can actually verify—you know? And there is no way to prove that Max hasn't changed since last year. Only he knows the truth about that.
Look, I'll go ahead and say he isn't the same. He's a year older and a year more experienced, sure, but that's just my take on it.

I'm not mixing anything—the fact that the Red Bull car is better than the Mercedes is a straight-up fact. It's verifiable and provable.☕

Do you guys really think Hamilton can pull off an eighth title?

Lawrence Garcia5 said:Do you guys really think Hamilton can pull off an eighth title?

Red Bull definitely has the fastest car on the grid this year, but I'm calling it now: Mercedes is taking the Constructors' Championship again, and Hamilton will naturally grab his eighth driver's title too.

If things hadn't gone sideways and Max hadn't had to bail out a few times—which is the weirdest part, since he wasn't even at fault—he’d probably be sitting on a 50 or 60 point lead right now. I think he was the fastest in 6 out of the last 7 qualifying sessions, but his lead just looks tiny because of those random DNFs.

You gotta admit, the Max-Red Bull combo is looking better than the Hamilton-Mercedes setup right now. That doesn't mean it'll stay that way by the end of the season, but as of today, Max-Red Bull is definitely the best package on the grid.

James Harris34 said:Red Bull definitely has the fastest car on the grid this year, but I'm calling it now: Mercedes is taking the Constructors' Championship again, and Hamilton will naturally grab his eighth driver's title too.

So I guess Toto Wolff is just straight-up lying when he claims there’s zero difference in pace between Mercedes and Red Bull. 🙂
I mean, we’re used to Toto exaggerating how fast the competition is—it’s practically his brand. Honestly, the guy was once terrified of being outpaced by an Alfa Romeo. 🤣

But acting like the competition is actually *weaker* than it really is? Now that’s a fresh twist. 🤣

Lawrence Garcia5 said:Do you guys really think Hamilton can pull off an eighth title?

Maybe—but honestly, I doubt he pulls it off this season.

Sam Clark75 said:Maybe—but honestly, I doubt he pulls it off this season.

Why would that be such a big question mark?

Sure, Bottas might be an issue—he lacks the drive and the pace to actually help with a title fight now that they've dropped him...
but at the end of the day, Mercedes still has the raw speed and the engineering brains to snatch those championships...

On the flip side, Max is still pretty green. The real question is how he handles the pressure when things get intense in the final races. Maybe he stays cool, maybe he just cruises through it, but there's always a chance he cracks like Hamilton did back in 2007...

Anything can happen, I guess, but my gut feeling is that it’s just not going to go down that way. Maybe I'm wrong—whatever. But looking at those four wins this season? The first one was a total fluke, and the fourth one only happened because he sidelined Max. It’s like trying to squeeze a camel through the eye of a needle.