Black and White in Color

Robert De Niro, a veteran actor whose craft was forged back when cinema actually felt "massive"—someone who clearly grew up on a steady diet of prestige filmmaking—has once again decided to be a bit of a rebel, taking aim at the assembly-line machinery that defines modern studio movies.

To quote an American news outlet:

The legendary Robert De Niro recently lashed out at the American film industry, calling Hollywood productions formulaic, shallow, and frankly, quite repulsive.

He argues that for anyone who actually appreciates sharp dialogue, movie theaters have become a wasteland. "Films made for those people go straight to streaming or home video because they aren't profitable enough for the Hollywood moguls."

While he’s clearly fed up with the current blockbusters topping the charts, his biggest grievance is how these mindless spectacles effectively lobotomize the audience.

Naturally, this has ignited a massive debate over IMDb regarding the past, present, and future of the medium. Does De Niro have a point? Are we really comfortable calling these cookie-cutter products "classics"? What has modern cinema actually contributed to the art form? In short... is De Niro just being a nostalgic curmudgeon, or is he acting as a mouthpiece for those of us who still demand more from a screen?

I'm pulling this thread because I'm genuinely itching to shake up my own perspectives on the matter...

Michael Caine is spot on here—though I don't think his point is directly about color versus black-and-white cinematography. It’s less about the technical specs and more about the mindset. Modern Hollywood basically manufactures this shallow pseudo-culture on purpose, mostly because it's easier to manage and exploit a population that isn't thinking too hard. Capitalism is built entirely on this kind of consumerist fluff, and honestly, we're seeing it hit its peak right now. From here, the exploitation is only going to ramp up, which requires an even more mindless consumer base—people who will settle for whatever mediocre garbage is put in front of them. To make sure that happens, they just have to keep everyone even more distracted.

Back during the height of feudalism, the clergy used religious dogma and superstition to dull people's wits to such an unbearable degree that it became impossible for anyone with a shred of common sense to stomach. To keep the exploitation engine running, they needed followers who were even more narrow-minded. Then, naturally, some people started pushing back... Today, those people are the ones starting to say "NO" to this whole consumerist pseudo-culture. So, yeah—that's Michael Caine's take applied to the world of cinema.

khmm, I think there's a bit of ego at play here. I really like Caine, I do, but I can't shake the feeling that his whole argument is mostly just aimed at criticizing progress itself—which clearly isn't his thing. Whether that's coming from selfishness or something else, I don't know. Obviously, you can't just go out and film another Casablanca or A Place in the Sun today, but who would even want that? Some movies are great specifically because they capture a certain era. I'm definitely not saying there aren't good movies being made now; sure, there's plenty of garbage out there, but there always has been. How do you even explain to Caine the excitement for a new film from someone like Coppola, Allen, Trier, Jarmusch, or Burton... guys who are definitely going to hold their own at the box office? I mean, I guess everything used to seem more high-class and sophisticated in his eyes (and honestly, maybe in mine too), and Cannes really was something special back in his day instead of just pure commercialization like it is now, but that doesn't mean we should stop watching movies. We have this massive wave of production coming out of Korea, Japan, China, and so on, which wasn't nearly this big before, and I think that's a great thing. It’s safe to assume Caine won't "get" someone like Spike Lee, but that's really his problem. As far as we're concerned, we can just enjoy the growing global variety and try to separate the wheat from the chaff 😁

It seems to me that nowadays there are far more parasites than there is grain. I believe Caine is correct in his assessment. Hollywood has fundamentally lowered the standards of cinema. It has become increasingly difficult for an individual to distinguish a quality film when there is nothing left to compare it against. While it is all well and good that the Chinese or Korean film industries are making strides, you can personally take those advancements wherever you like for all I care. Just look at the current theater listings and video rental selections. Theaters are dominated by Hollywood productions, perhaps a stray European film if it happens to be something truly exceptional, while the Eastern imports are hardly worth mentioning. Video rentals are in an even worse state. For those of us living outside of major hubs like New York City, the options are incredibly limited. There is a distinct lack of those great classic films worth borrowing or watching. It is mostly garbage, with the occasional grain of truth to be found.👎

My heart actually skipped a beat seeing *Volver*, *Samaria*, and *Crime*... honestly, the current selection of American movies playing here in Chicago—not to mention the mountain of other great American films out there—is actually pretty decent. I guess there are perks to not living in a massive metro area like Chicago either; you don't deal with all that crazy traffic, you can probably actually hear birds chirping outside your window, and you aren't getting hit with those heavy local property taxes and everything else. Just my two cents.🙂 👋

Anthony Davis6, that’s a pretty balanced take. I'm mostly on board, though I can't help feeling like there's way more chaff than wheat in the industry these days—at least in terms of what's being pumped out. It’s hard to pin down an exact timeline for when things shifted, but it feels like everything started unraveling once we lost that era of strong auteur vision and those classic studio formulas.

I don't know, every generation just brings its own crowd. Caine is probably just feeling nostalgic. Then again, I'm just as guilty, even if I'm young enough to be his granddaughter. Looking at it now, it all feels subjective, but the reality is that getting into classic cinema today is a massive hurdle. Most people rooting for modern blockbusters haven't even scratched the surface of the masterpieces made forty years ago.

I mean, what can I say? Most of my collection consists of black and white films, but that doesn't mean I'm totally closed off to newer stuff. And yeah... I guess I'm a sentimental guy, too. But I try to stay realistic and enjoy the era I'm living in as much as I can. 🙂

Unfortunately, I have to admit Michael Caine is spot on regarding Hollywood. Lately, there seems to be a massive deficit of actual ideas, so they just churn out mindless garbage—like a biopic about that kidnapped girl, or a film about an old man swindling his trustees, and now they’re planning one about a tornado leveling an entire town. You can see the pattern clearly with that Richard Gere project filming in Canada.

Then there is the deluge of unnecessary remakes like Ben-Hur (it’s as if they haven't learned that American audiences aren't particularly fond of period spectacles anymore) and a mountain of pointless sequels that simply repeat history, much like the Hills Have Eyes franchise, where the original was followed by nothing but mediocre sequels... and I doubt these will be any different.

And let's not forget the flood of Japanese film remakes, including that completely redundant American version of Oldboy. It points toward a certain underlying bias against Japanese, Korean, and Thai creators, even if they try to mask it well.

Not to mention the horror genre, which is in complete shambles. Just endless sequels like I Know What You Did Last Summer, Saw III, Scream 5, and the Halloween remake... As long as they can pack in enough blood, sex, violence, and young actors to satisfy the crowd, they don't care. They completely overlook true gems like the Australian films Undead or Wolf Creek.

Michael Caine is right when he says Hollywood produces subpar films. The more money involved, the more they rely on special effects, like in Lord of the Rings (not that it's a bad film...) or King Kong, but Peter Jackson actually possessed a specific talent for directing bizarre films like Bad Taste, Braindead, or The Frighteners, and then they essentially ruined him because The Frighteners didn't perform well enough at the box office.

The lack of originality is everywhere: Mad Max 4, Indiana Jones 4, Die Hard 4... just a string of sequels to classics, featuring actors who are far too old for these roles, though apparently, that doesn't bother them.

Ugh... I'm just not feeling it, honestly. Later, I guess.

Oh, please...

What? Did I say something wrong? 😲

Caine has reached that stage of life where nostalgia doesn't even hit people the way it used to. 😉 😁

Anyway, I’m with Anthony Davis6 on this one.

The film industry hasn't exactly been getting better, has it? Honestly, this whole decline everyone keeps talking about has probably been happening since the very beginning. I'd bet anything that even back when people were watching the Lumiere brothers' 😁 😁
there were folks turning their heads and complaining about how the cinematography looked in *****.

It honestly irritates me when people claim Wrong Turn is some kind of masterpiece. It’s hard to take those takes seriously when they clearly haven't even seen The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, which is where the entire concept was stolen and recycled from. Or don't even get me started on that House of Wax remake starring Paris Hilton... that’s what really gets to me. Seeing people praise these films is exhausting...

quietdriver3 goldeneeagle2 said:The film industry hasn't gotten any worse than it already was. This whole decline everyone keeps whining about probably started on day one. I’d bet anything that even back when people were watching the Lumiere brothers' The Arrival of a Train, there were folks turning their heads and complaining that the cinematography looked like absolute garbage. 😁 😁

😁😁
The fact is, movies are just commercial products now. They're targeting teenagers, so you get that predictable, cookie-cutter content. You can see it the second you walk into any AMC theater.
Movie perceptions are rarely about the truth. Every generation thinks they're the ones witnessing the end of cinema, acting like everything else was just a prelude to the decline. 😲So, this has been dragging on for decades now... Has this generation finally realized that "The End" is actually going to be the title of the next sequel coming out in Fall 2007? 😁😁

crimsonmoose3 said:It kind of bugs me when I hear people calling Wrong Turn a masterpiece these days. I mean, I guess they just haven't actually sat down and watched The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, which is basically where the whole idea was stolen and recycled from. Or even that House of Wax remake with Paris Hilton... honestly, it’s just frustrating when I hear people praising movies like that.

I guess every generation just ends up making its own classics, doesn't it? Like, when *The Texas Chain Saw Massacre* first hit theaters, there were definitely people turning their heads in total confusion, wondering how anyone could possibly enjoy a flick like that when they grew up on something like *Psycho*. Then, you had the next group who couldn't wrap their heads around why anyone would care for *Psycho* when they’d spent their lives watching stuff like *Invasion of the Body Snatchers*. It just keeps going... the older crowd had *Catman*, and before them, it was all about Lugosi and *Dracula*. It's just a cycle, I suppose. Always moving forward like that. 😉

Jose Miller17 said:😁😁
the reality is that movies just simplify things... I mean, the target audience nowadays is mostly teenagers, so you get that consistent kind of content... if you walk into any local multiplex, you see it immediately...

That’s true. Or, as Bradbury might put it, they're just oversimplifying. Though, I guess it feels more like they're just mirroring how we live. A lot of stuff in our daily lives is pretty straightforward. Movies and their messages follow that same pattern, I suppose. If you really compare life to film, we tend to lead simple lives even when we're stuck in complex situations. Simple lives = simple narratives; complex problems = complex special effects. But hey, I'm just rambling here. 😁😁

Honestly, it's all the fault of that one four-eyed jerk who convinced some big shot back in '75 at Universal Pictures to cough up the cash for a movie about a shark. Everything changed after that. Nothing was ever the same. 😁

quietdriver3 said:That’s true. Or, as Bradbury might put it, oversimplification. But it feels more like it's because movies reflect our own lives. So much of our existence is straightforward. Movies and their messages follow suit. If you compare life to cinema, we lead simple lives within complex situations. Simple lives equal simple narratives; complex problems equal complex special effects. Not that I care... 😁 D

It’s all the fault of one four-eyed pest whom some big shot at Universal Pictures decided to fund back in '75 for a movie about a shark. Nothing was ever the same after that. 😁

What exactly is your problem with Steven Spielberg and his blockbusters? 🙂 It isn't him; it's the idiots who thought they could achieve something by piling up shark movies, when the only decent one was Deep Blue Sea.

crimsonmoose3 said:What's your deal with Steven Spielberg and his blockbusters?

I mean, you're kind of barking up the wrong tree there, man. 😉

Anthony Davis6 said:Between Volver, Samaria, and Crime... the current selection of American films playing in New York City—alongside a decent amount of other quality American cinema, naturally—isn't half bad. Though, I suppose if you don't live in a major US metro area, there are certain advantages; you don't deal with the gridlock, you might actually hear birds chirping outside your window, and you aren't burdened by local income taxes. And so on.🙂 👋

True enough. I can hear the birds chirping, frogs croaking in the yard, and the occasional breeze passing by my window.

What I was actually getting at is this: I don't hold video rental stores accountable for having a poor selection. They are businesses; they want to make money, so they stock whatever the masses demand. My grievance lies with the public—or at least the majority of them—who lack the stamina for anything remotely challenging. When I look at the movie shelves, it’s depressing. They buy five copies of some mindless American sequel, while something like Casablanca just sits there gathering dust somewhere between the adult films and the cartoons. 😬

As for Caine, the man has aged, and it seems he had to lean on something widely recognizable just to stay relevant in the media. It’s almost as if people forget he’s acted in films he clearly despises. Personally, I find James Bond to be rubbish. You sit through a James Bond film and walk out feeling completely unmoved. It's all just nonsense. 😕

🤣 It’s kind of like how an owl might mock a shadow just for having a thick skull; filmmaking is a massive team effort, and honestly, people get frustrated all the time. As Jean Renoir once pointed out, you can't just order a masterpiece off a menu. That’s why we really need to give these creators more credit. (Or at least, that's my two cents.) 😎