Is there any traditional Ju Jitsu in America, or is it all just Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

First off, a quick shout-out to all the old-timers here on the forum.
I’ve been wondering—is there any actual traditional Ju Jitsu being taught here in the States or around the US, rather than this Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu nonsense where everyone just spends the whole time rolling around and grinding on the floor like they're having a wrestling match?
I'm talking about real techniques—proper wrist locks and joint manipulations—with as little of that constant floor-rolling and grappling mess as possible.

Grappling is king!!! If you think it's "gay," you probably just aren't secure enough in your own masculinity.🙂

Back in the day, certain variations were being taught in places like Chicago or Seoul (though I don't think they are anymore), which gave rise to styles like CJJC and such. But honestly, most Ju-Jutsu styles and schools incorporate some level of wrestling and ground fighting anyway, so you aren't missing out. It’s not like Brazilians invented ground combat...

Not in Korea. Unless you actually meant Hapkido—which is basically just a blend of Aikido and Tae Kwon Do.

There’s Tenshin Shinjo Ryu, which teaches the style that guy was talking about in that Martial Arts magazine, but I don't have any numbers handy to give you...

Then there's Koku Ryu, if you can even find someone willing to teach you.

As for anything else, no clue.

Besides, why would you even want traditional Ju Jutsu anyway?

Jamie Fowler2 said:It’s not in Korea anymore. Unless you were thinking of Hapkido, which is basically a blend of Aikijujutsu and Taekwondo.

I know it isn't there now, but wasn't it a thing before? Or am I just confusing the Korean club with some other group somewhere else...

Jamie Fowler2 said:What's even the point of traditional Ju Jitsu?

Wait, so you're saying traditional sucks??

There isn't a single famous school out there.
And there are plenty of those smaller ones.
While we're on the subject, did Aikido ever make an appearance here in the States?

Not quite... a good session of heavy making out is what really does it for me.

Zachary Bennett3 said:Grappling rules!!! If you think that's gay, you just aren't secure enough in your own masculinity.🙂

Back in the day, certain variations were being taught in places like Seoul—though I don't think they really are anymore—like CJJC and stuff. But honestly, most Ju-Jitsu styles or schools incorporate some level of wrestling and ground fighting, so you can't really escape it. It’s not like the Brazilians invented ground combat out of thin air...

Yeah, obviously, but what I found interesting about one style a friend showed me (I think it was Aikijujutsu) is how incredibly direct it is. Most of it happens standing up, except for those moments where your opponent ends up face-down on the floor, clutching their wrist or fingers and begging for mercy. There isn't much of that rolling around and grappling on the ground—you know, on concrete or gravel and all that mess.
There used to be a club over in the newer parts of Chicago, but I'm not sure if they're still running it. And honestly, you don't see that typical Aikido thing where you throw someone off balance first and then execute a technique; this stuff is as direct as Wing Chun!

wanderingridge said:other than the fact that the opponent ends up pinned under a sweaty palm or finger or whatever, begging for mercy... and obviously, there isn't much in common with just rolling around on the floor (on concrete, gravel, etc.)

Aha, so they’re tough, huh? Look, I’ve got a buddy—he’s easily 50 pounds heavier than me—who’s been training this stuff for a long time. And let me tell you, during our sparring sessions, he hasn't managed to land a single decent lever on me while we're standing up. Heck, he can't even get one going once we hit the mats!

satter said:While we're on the subject, was there ever any Aikido presence here in the States?

Not
as far as I can tell. As far as I know, you'll find Aikido in places like Italy, Canada, the Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, and France.
I had some links saved somewhere; let me dig them up and I'll get back to you.

Here you go:
http://www.daito-ryu.com/en/frame.htm

wanderingridge said:Look, I get it, but what a friend showed me (I think it was Aikido) really caught my attention. It’s incredibly direct, mostly happening from a standing position, except when you end up pinning an opponent to the floor by their wrist or fingers while they're begging for mercy. There isn't much of that endless rolling around on concrete or gravel either.
There used to be a club in a new development near Chicago, but I'm not sure if it's still active. Also, in this style, there isn't all that setup work to break balance before the technique hits—it's just as direct as Wing Chun.

That isn't classic Jiu-Jitsu. Classic Jiu-Jitsu is either outdated or has been turned into a sport.
You can find Shotokan, various military styles, or whatever they teach at the local YMCA or CJJC.

Gerald Smith76 said:That isn't really classic jiujitsu. Classic jiujitsu is either outdated or has been twisted into a competitive sport.
You have Shotokan, various old-school wrestling styles, or even modern MMA gyms out there...

In America, calling it "jiu-jitsu" is a bit like how people use the term "kung fu" in China—it’s just a broad label for fighting arts. I wouldn't go so far as to say jiujitsu is obsolete; there are still traditional lineages (ryu) that have survived for centuries. They might not be as widespread as they once were, or certain schools may have closed their doors, but labeling an entire discipline as "outdated"... well, I'm not so sure about that. 🤔

Aikido, Shotokan, Heaven-style systems, and so on... the list goes on forever.

For those interested, here is a list of some traditional styles.

http://www.koryu.com/guide/jujutsu.html

He wasn't even asking about Jiu Jitsu; he was just looking for an excuse to bash UFC. I suppose someone like him would be better suited for a basic Nanbudo class...😈

Peter Myers29 said:In America, Ju-jutsu is essentially what Kung Fu is in China—both terms just describe some kind of combat skill. I wouldn't say Ju-jutsu is obsolete, given there are schools that have existed for hundreds of years. They might not be as widespread today, or certain lineages may have died out, but calling a skill "outdated"... Hmm. 🤔

Aikido, Shotokan, Heaven shin'yo-ryu, and so on... you can't list them all.

Sure, but when people talk about traditional Jiu-jitsu, they usually mean the "classic" version, like what you'd see taught at a police academy or in a competitive sport setting.
Regarding Jiu-jitsu, I keep coming back to the relationship with the YMCA in the early 20th century and the competitions held for the American police force. To make the point even stronger: Ken's Judo, which was intended to be a reformed version of Jiu-jitsu, either vanished or evolved into a pure sport. 👎

What you listed is top-tier Jiu-jitsu, and I'm not disputing that.

It’s basically a mix of strikes, leverage, throws, takedowns, and ground fighting.http://www.ijjf.com

Brandon Carter2 said:It’s a mix of striking, leverage, throws, takedowns, and ground fighting.http://www.ijjf.com

Competitive sports versions put a heavy emphasis on the ground game. Whether you consider that "real" combat or not is up to you, though the reasoning behind it is pretty obvious.

Gerald Smith76 said:Sporting Jiu-Jitsu places a massive emphasis on ground fighting. Whether you consider combat Jiu-Jitsu to be the same thing or not, I suppose it’s easy to see why that is.

The fundamental issue, I think, is that with UFC, you can actually spar at maybe 99% intensity. In traditional Jiu-Jitsu, however, you really can't engage in true live sparring; instead, you mostly just practice katas or specific techniques alongside a partner who is essentially just helping you out.

Jacob Martin78 said:The issue is that you can spar UFC at 99% intensity, whereas traditional jujutsu doesn't really allow for real sparring; you just drill kata and techniques with a partner who helps you through them.

Exactly. That is the primary flaw of the "classic" styles.
Kano realized this and created Judo (which is why I'm back at it 🙄 )

"Jujutsu, which had techniques for hand to hand combat, studied "true power." In order for each us to experience personally the "core principles of the martial arts," we must not stop at the mere, repetitious practice of kata. Training and sparring help us reach the core principles of martial arts and the power they generate through experience. As an added benefit, randori training leads to an indispensable and highly prized sense of security. We must admire Master Kano's foresight in promoting the benefits of randori training."

The rest of these texts are brilliant, almost like scripture... http://judoinfo.com/history.htm

If you can actually explain the fundamental differences between traditional Jiu-Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to me, I’ll tell you exactly where you can shove your opinion. It honestly feels like you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, let alone what you're trying to achieve here!