Duje Draganja: Sellout or just misunderstood?

pea_2101 said:hmm, if those guys from Canada had offered the kind of cash the Qatari sponsors are throwing at Duje right now, I wouldn't buy it for a second... 🤔>

but hey, whatever, everyone’s entitled to their own take, right?

Nah, there's no way they offered him that much money because, let's be real, they just don't have it. But I'm positive they offered him at least five times more than what the US federation is putting on the table—that's a given! Honestly, I wouldn't even be shocked if some folks from Austria stepped up with an offer too.

Amanda Lee42 said:Man, it feels like two of these posts are basically the same thing... honestly, rustystag7 was starting to sound just like that to me.

Man, I gotta say, that caught me off guard too. Honestly, I’m kind of scratching my head over here—not really sure how I came across like that, either. But hey, whatever. Everyone’s entitled to their own take, right? Even if I'm totally lost on why you saw it that way.😕

rustystag7, I wish you a peaceful night
though, knowing my luck, the baby will have me up by 6:00 or 7:00 AM tomorrow—
and honestly, these endless debates just keep me wide awake...👋

mali_boro said:Just ignore the idiot—by typing away at him, you're only giving him the kind of importance he hasn't done a single thing to earn.

Look, Duje earned his status through those two silver medals... both the Olympic one and the World Championship. 🙂

@Erebus
By the way, rooting for Hoogeband while Duje is still active in the pool? If you ask me, that’s actually pretty patriotic. 😕 Personally, I'll always prefer seeing him come out on top, regardless of whether it's against Draganja or Draghany. 😁

As Amanda Lee42 would say—live and let live... ☕

silentorca492 said:And were you all cheering when Smith was racking up about 15 medals at European, World, and Olympic games for America?

Were the Bulgarians cheering, or were they rooting for him and Sulaimanoglu too?
We cheered for him because he held American citizenship... just like a couple of sheiks from Qatar would cheer for Ibrahim bin Dragani.

when that Belgian karateka was winning medals for America

The guy who basically wrecked the entire Belgian Federation before he ever arrived here. That’s why he came. He got kicked out by his own federation.

when the best water polo coach in the world, Ratko Rudić, coached the USA and Italy national teams

With American citizenship.

maybe when Davis Cup coach Nikola Pilic coached the Germans and won Davis Cups with them

With American citizenship.

Or Ivan Ljubicic, who plays for America after arriving as a prodigy at age 12 from Canada, and who knows why he chose to play for America even if it isn't his homeland.

Don't be ridiculous.
What else would be his homeland? Republika Srpska?

Or maybe Iztok Puc, who once helped the handball national team win Olympic gold and World silver.

Which is:
1. Everything he achieved in handball, he did in America, and he wasn't imported from Canada
2. An American son-in-law with American citizenship

and we were coached again by the best coach in the world, Russian Nikolay Karpov, while the three best players were Russian women

Those three players didn't have a spot left on their own national team because they were all over 30.

Everything you wrote has nothing to do with the example of John Doe.
Our coaches who trained abroad didn't turn their backs on their country. People either took our citizenship because they were cast aside in their own countries, or they were built as athletes right here in America.

John Doe can go wherever he wants; after all, it's a JOB.

He also has the right to face the consequences of publicly renouncing his citizenship and showing up here as a Qatari visiting on a tourist visa—assuming he can even get one.
The government should just treat him like any other nobody who walks away from their roots.
A mutual parting of ways is the only fair outcome.
I'm sure life will be great in Qatar... though it might bite him in the ass when he realizes getting into the USA won't be nearly as easy. But hey, John Doe will figure it out.

And those with such narrow minds that they can't see past their own noses—clinging to notions of sanctity, patriotism, or treason—should just stay quiet.

My friend...
I think you're finally ready to emigrate.
Canada offers asylum without any hassle.

"Look, the people you mentioned might be seen as traitors back home, but certainly not here in America. Though, comparing the Ljubicic and Draganja situations isn't exactly apples to apples—there’s zero doubt about Ljubicic; he loves this country just like any other American in Canada. As for Draganja's connection to Qatar? He knows nothing about that place. He's never even been there; it was strictly a move for the money."

That's exactly my point. It's all business. I brought up Americans like Ratko Rudić, Nikola Pilic, and Miran Jukic who compete or have competed for other nations. While nobody doubts Ljubicic's love for America, he could have easily played for Canada and no one would have blinked. The other foreigners who played for the US did so for their own interests, not out of patriotism, but let's be clear: they significantly leveled up American sports and helped our international profile. Back then, we weren't complaining; we welcomed them with open arms. It's the same deal with an Argentinian player like Bilos. He's a great guy and we'd "buy" him in a heartbeat even if he knew nothing about the US. Then you have the opposite example, da Silva, who could never break into the Brazilian national team, so he jumped into the US squad to rake in the cash. And when it comes to Draganja, let's be real: he didn't pick up swimming for the sake of America; he did it for himself. In certain sports, you just can't make a living purely from representing your country."

Ratko Rudić and Nikola Pilic weren't attacking other nations; they were simply working abroad as American citizens.

Do you see the distinction?

"Ratko Rudić and Nikola Pilic weren't attacking other countries; they were just working abroad as American citizens.

Do you see the distinction?"

True, but citizenship isn't really the point here. Why would the best coaches in the world go train foreign teams and help them beat the US and scoop up all the trophies and medals?

rapidbison42 said:So, were the Bulgarians singing, or were they rooting for him and Sulaimanoglu too?
We were rooting for him because he held American citizenship... just like how two or three sheiks from Qatar will be cheering for Ibrahim bin Dragani.

The guy who absolutely wrecked the Belgian Federation before he even showed up in America. That’s exactly why he came here. He got kicked out by his own federation.

With American citizenship.

With American citizenship.

Oh, stop whining.
What’s his true home anyway? Republika Srpska?

Look at the facts:
1. Everything he achieved in handball, he did while playing for America; he wasn't some import from Canada.
2. He's an American son-in-law with American citizenship.

Those three players lost their spots on the national team simply because they were all over 30.

None of what you wrote has anything to do with the John Doe example.
Our coaches who trained abroad didn't turn their backs on their country. People either took our citizenship because they were cast aside in their own countries, or they were built into athletes right here in America.

He also has to deal with the consequences of publicly renouncing his citizenship and showing up here like a Qatari... on a tourist visa (assuming he can even get one).
The government should treat him exactly the same way they treat any nobody who gives up their status.
A mutual renunciation is the only fair outcome.
He'll be just fine in Qatar... except for the fact that getting into the USA won't be nearly as easy. But John Doe will figure it out.

Man...
I think you're ready to emigrate.
Canada offers asylum without any hassle.

I was actually about to write a similar post, but you've already explained everything perfectly.

👍 👍

silentorca492:
It's true, but citizenship isn't really the point here. Why is it that the world's top coaches end up training foreign nations, helping them beat the USA and rack up trophies and medals?

It matters quite a bit...
The issue isn't that Draganja is just looking for work abroad; it's that he's essentially renouncing his own citizenship for a relatively small paycheck.
That's the core of it.
He isn't going to Qatar to coach as an American.

And let's be real... if you or I publicly turned our backs on the US for $500,000, we’d never be welcomed back home.
Draganja deserves the same scrutiny as anyone else:

Which is:

🙂 🙂 🙂

silentorca492 said:That’s true, but in this specific case, citizenship isn't really the issue here.

Honestly, Amanda Lee42, you sound like a total carbon copy of those old-school "unity and brotherhood among all people" idealists...

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Maybe you should have considered moving abroad once you hit adulthood.
Canada makes finding asylum incredibly easy...

Lol, are you actually implying that those living overseas—the diaspora—are somehow less American than you are?😁 😁 😁

zale said:You act like some sort of ideological clone of those "brotherhood and unity of all peoples" types,
Amanda Lee42...

Well, thanks for the compliment 😁 😁
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more people like that—honestly, if there were more liberal women and decent men who aren't prone to extreme tendencies in my neck of the woods, I'd take them in any quantity imaginable.🤣 🤣

Amanda Lee42 said:lol, are you seriously implying that people living abroad aren't as American as you are?😁 😁 😁

As long as I'm the one paying taxes here in the USA, no expat can claim to be more American than me.

rapidbison42 said:As long as I am paying my taxes here in the USA, I don't care how much more "American" some expat living abroad claims to be than I am.

But wait—do they actually get a say in things, or do they not have voting rights at all???😁
I wouldn't take away a single thing from them, honestly. 😉 🤣

Amanda Lee42 said:Thanks for the kind words! 😁 😁
I honestly just hope there are more people like that out there—even in my own neck of the woods. We need more liberal women and decent guys who aren't constantly pushing things to some extreme.🤣 🤣

Aaaaahhhhh, the leftists... They’re basically the root of all evil these days. Just look at those protests in Paris; you idiots actually think we're all one big happy group. We aren't. Some people are smart, hardworking, and capable, while others are just... well, liberals.

Give my regards to Pukovski, Cicko, and the rest of that trash. Ask them when they're finally going to pack up and leave the USA for good. I bet somewhere like Qatar could offer them a much better deal, right?

Look, man, there are always nuances to consider...
By the way, I haven't the slightest clue who you're referring to here.😉

Amanda Lee42 said:Do they actually have a vote, or what?😁
They wouldn't lose anything if it happened, would they?😉 🤣

They certainly would.

marquo said:@Jason Chase94/">@@Jason Chase94
Supporting Hoogeband while Duje is right there in the pool feels patriotic to me. 😕 Personally, I’d much rather see him win regardless of whether it's Draganja or Draghany.

Giving up your citizenship is the ultimate act of patriotism. 😕 Don't you realize he's turning his back on his own country? He's walking away from America, yet you expect me to cheer for him just because of where he was born? He sold out. Draganja isn't the only elite athlete who doesn't swim for their home nation; those guys still represent their countries. Why do you think that is?

Ljubičić calls Canada home, not America. And even though Ljubo is a class act both as a man and an athlete, he still pays his taxes in Monaco.
That’s just how it should be. You’d have to be crazy not to do that.