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Film vs. Book (Topic of interest!!)

Started by Peter Morris58 · · 👁 12 views · 120 replies

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Participants Peter Morris58northerncrane4quietdriver3Sandra King86Jose Miller17Amy Mendoza25Brandon Brooks11Jessica Nguyen85stormywolf39casualotter21rapidskipper9slylynx16vividcyclist35ironcrane7Mark Kelly19Chloe Rodriguez9Alexander Garcia5Nicholas Hill5
northerncrane4 northerncrane4 Regular
384 messages
joined Aug 2005
#61 ·
Sandra King86 said:Even you don't seem to know what the point of your posts is—whether you're attacking someone or actually defending a position.

Being aggressive is fine, but doing it like an idiot is just pathetic. 😉

Transparent. You're clearly a woman—only women can be this perceptive.
Sandra King86 Sandra King86 Active Member
79 messages
joined Sep 2004
#62 ·
northerncrane4 said:Too obvious. You're totally intuitive—like, purely feminine. Only women can be that sharp...

No need to get sexist here. 😉
Don't be ashamed of how smart you are. I get that sexism is basically the peak for some people, but you've got actual potential—you don't need that stuff...
northerncrane4 northerncrane4 Regular
384 messages
joined Aug 2005
#63 ·
Sandra King86 said:There’s no reason to be sexist. 😉
You shouldn't be ashamed of your own intelligence. I get that sexism is some peak level of stupidity people reach—but you have actual potential, you don't need that.

I'm just trying to mask my glaring idiocy and total lack of direction—which you apparently detected with such surgical precision.
Jose Miller17 Jose Miller17 Active Member
162 messages
joined Sep 2003
#64 ·
Hey Chloe Morris12, if you haven't lost all interest after everything that went down 😁
ironcrane7 ironcrane7 Member
38 messages
joined Apr 2004
#65 ·
Gerald Barrett25 said:The reality is that, according to Greenaway, a film is nothing more than illustrated text [...]

Well, aren't you just the lucky one to have found someone like him to paraphrase.
ironcrane7 ironcrane7 Member
38 messages
joined Apr 2004
#66 ·
Chloe Morris12 said:I honestly think most people are. But then again, I bet there's at least one blonde from Harvard or some American girl who isn't.

But then again, that's why Clueless is an adaptation.
Jose Miller17 Jose Miller17 Active Member
162 messages
joined Sep 2003
#67 ·
ironcrane7 said:Well, you certainly picked a target worth paraphrasing.

Heh, good catch. 😁
...
In that same vein, here's another one:

"If you actually want to tell stories, be a writer instead of a filmmaker."
:-)
Mark Kelly19 Mark Kelly19 Newcomer
1 message
joined Aug 2005
#68 ·
Jose Miller17 said:Keeping the vibe going, here’s another one for the road:

"If you want to tell stories, be a writer, not a filmmaker."
:-)

Hmm, honestly? Neither one actually requires a story... and especially not a movie.
Jose Miller17 Jose Miller17 Active Member
162 messages
joined Sep 2003
#69 ·
Mark Kelly19 said:Well, neither one actually requires a plot... and certainly doesn't require a movie.

That was exactly Peter's point. ;-)
Chloe Rodriguez9 Chloe Rodriguez9 Member
27 messages
joined Apr 2003
#70 ·
hammond said:For me, the book almost always turns out superior to the movie...

Well... Fight Club is nearby, though the book definitely has a better ending.
I couldn't bring myself to read The Da Vinci Code because the style was just too much for me—classically shallow thriller vibes, where the prose practically screams "FILM ME!!!" so I just decided: I won't read it, I'll just wait for the movie.
But then there's Tom Hanks, ah, the eternal dilemma... which lesser evil should I choose?
The Langoliers—not a novel, just a short story, but the film (or mini-series) is actually better; if you ignore the ending, it's quite entertaining.
And King's adaptation with Depp and Turturro—the story felt like "secret window, secret garden"—pointless, far too reliant on obvious plot points, a rather dull little thing, though Turturro did brighten up the film for me.

Chocolat—I preferred the film.

But yes, most of the time the book is better, and I personally prefer when things are based on an original screenplay; it saves me from having to weigh the book against the film, and there's no repetitive reading.

I often get ahead of myself and end up disappointed when they adapt a piece of literature that I hold dear.
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#71 ·
Well, you certainly picked a target to paraphrase.

Care to expand on that... or is just spitting on it enough for you? 😉
ironcrane7 ironcrane7 Member
38 messages
joined Apr 2004
#72 ·
I'll set aside any deep dives into my own personal tastes. Let's just say I find watching a Greenaway film to be one of the most grueling spectator experiences imaginable.*
But I don't quite follow that claim. Is this some sort of post-structuralist nod? It seems utterly implausible given Greenaway's specific aesthetic and cinematic philosophy.
As for the idea of being "anti-narrative"... That's a very hermetic, academic way of looking at it, and it’s easily debunked by one simple observation: a film is defined by its duration in time. Ideas need dialogue to actually survive the ninety minutes it takes to run a feature film. To me, those two concepts are incompatible, and the end result—at least in P.G.'s case—is exactly what the director intended: tedious, hyper-intellectual masturbation.
Then again, Tarkovsky managed to craft films that bypass narrative tropes entirely, though perhaps that's because he followed the dynamic structure of poetry rather than the static model of painting.
Of course, I'm writing this from a completely naive and uninformed perspective. Gerald Barrett25 and Jose Miller17, please feel free to drop links to some Greenaway Quotes, preferably ones without background noise. 😁

Actually, I love The Draughtsman's Contract.
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#73 ·
On the thread What makes an art film an art film? I’ve got two posts regarding Greenaway if you're interested 😉

But I don't really get that claim. Is it some kind of post-structuralist reference?

In this thread there's a reference and a link to a famous essay by Greenaway—which is where my little ramblings... excuse me, my paraphrasing, come from. I think the essay is a brilliant take on film as an art form. The point being made suggests that movies can be something more than just illustrated text. It’s interesting stuff, though it doesn't mean I'm obsessed with Greenaway... just trying to broaden my horizons, I guess...

I'd highly recommend checking out http://petergreenaway.co.uk/ and reading through his Quotes.... for instance, my favorite "Cinema is not a playground for Sharon Stone." 😁
Peter Morris58 Peter Morris58 MemberOP
32 messages
joined Mar 2003
#74 ·
Look, northerncrane4, we all walk around thinking we've got it all figured out, but none of us really do. I’m positive there’s stuff even you aren't 100% sure on, and my question was as basic as it gets. I don't mind asking when I'm unsure, even if some people—like you—think it's stupid. And please, don't insult my intelligence just because of one post on this forum.
northerncrane4 northerncrane4 Regular
384 messages
joined Aug 2005
#75 ·
Chloe Morris12 said:northerncrane4 — we all like to think we have it all figured out—but we don't. I'm certain there's even something you aren't sure about, and my question is just as basic as that.

Fair enough. Rather than embarrassing myself with questions like "Why isn't the tide coming in?"—which is just asking for trouble—I’ll try to find the answers in the right places. Something you seem too lazy to do.
Chloe Morris12 said:I don't hesitate to ask when I'm unsure—even if some people, like you, might find it foolish.

Look, if you aren't going to ask—well, I'm certainly not going to bother commenting. What's the issue?
Peter Morris58 Peter Morris58 MemberOP
32 messages
joined Mar 2003
#76 ·
northerncrane4 said:Could be. So instead of embarrassing myself with dumb questions like "Why isn't the ocean washing up on the shore?", I'll just go find the answer somewhere useful. Something you're too lazy to do.

And there it is. You won't bother asking, and I won't bother commenting. What's the issue?

The difference between us is that I don't think asking a question is shameful. We all learned stuff from someone or read it somewhere. If I don't know something I feel like I should, a forum is a perfectly fine place to look. Asking isn't the embarrassment here. Not knowing is. And now, I know.

Commenting is fine. Just not the way you do it—by trying to belittle me. You could've been a lot more polite.
quietdriver3 quietdriver3 Regular
290 messages
joined Mar 2005
#77 ·
Gerald Barrett25 said:topic about nice !! I guess I’ve been wondering lately... what is it actually that makes a movie qualify as an "art film"? It’s such a vague term, isn't it? Maybe it's just a label people throw around when they want to feel sophisticated, or maybe there's something deeper to it. I don't know. It feels like the line between a regular drama and something truly "artistic" is always shifting. I wonder if it's about the visual style, or if it's more about how the story refuses to follow a standard Hollywood structure. Some movies just feel like they're asking you to sit there and contemplate something for hours, whereas others just entertain you. It's a bit of a gray area, I suppose. I've got two posts about Greenaway if you're interested, I guess. 😉

Na about this topic !! I think I actually have a reference and a link to that one famous essay by Greenaway that my whole rant—sorry, my paraphrasing—is based on. Personally, I find that essay to be such a brilliant take on film as an actual art form. The core idea suggests that movies can be something much deeper than just illustrated text. It’s a pretty interesting concept to me, though it doesn't exactly mean I'm some massive Greenaway fanatic... maybe it's just a matter of broadening my horizons, I guess.

I’d really recommend it. I was just wandering around online and stumbled upon this site for Peter Greenaway... http://petergreenaway.co.uk/. It’s kind of interesting, I guess. He has such a specific way of doing things, you know? Maybe it's just me, but his style always feels so deliberate. I was thinking about some of his older stuff, like The Draughtsman's Contract, and how much thought goes into every single frame. It's not really like most movies you see nowadays. Anyway, just thought I'd share the link. Might be worth a look if you're into that sort of thing. I mean, you should really just go read his Quotes... like, for example, my favorite one. Cinema is not a playground for Sharon Stone. 😁


Regarding Greenaway... I guess I've been sitting here reading through those links you sent over...

Just a few questions... what's the deal with animated films??... especially those older ones from before the 60s, when almost everything was basically built from storyboards?? In those cases, there isn't really a literal foundation in the form of a formal script. So, I guess, are we going to call everything that starts out on paper an "extension of literature"? If that's the case, does that mean painting is just a continuation of literature because a painting starts as a sketch on paper? Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I don't know. 😬

If movies actually followed what Greenway is pushing for, I guess we wouldn't be calling cinema some kind of "derivative branch of literature" anymore. It would probably feel more like a "derivative branch of painting," maybe just with some music playing in the background or something. Just a thought, I suppose. 😁

Besides that, there's this other thing similar to what Greenaway advocates for—kind of like the computer demo scene back in the 80s and 90s. And honestly, I really wouldn't want to see something like that ever replacing the way film rules work today. Maybe it's just me, but I guess I'd rather keep things the way they are. 😉
northerncrane4 northerncrane4 Regular
384 messages
joined Aug 2005
#78 ·
Quote : Indigo Girls said:The difference between us—quite simply—is that I don't view asking a question like this as something to be ashamed of.

Then why didn't you just ask it among people who actually know you personally?

Quote : Indigo Girls said:It's fine to comment. Just not in the way you do—by trying to belittle me. You could have handled it much more politely.

This way, you learned a lot more.
Alexander Garcia5 Alexander Garcia5 Member
45 messages
joined Nov 2012
#79 ·
Quote : Indigo Girls said:So you guys basically called me a drug addict, when I was really just asking if every movie is based on a book or not 😢

Spider-Man is based on a comic. A comic isn't exactly a book. So, yeah, not all movies come from books.
ironcrane7 ironcrane7 Member
38 messages
joined Apr 2004
#80 ·
The strip is an illustrated text. 😁

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