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Side effects of protein supplements? Specifically the "artificial" ones

Started by Karen Garcia5 · · 👁 7 views · 56 replies

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Participants Karen Garcia5silentorca492George Bailey2casualnomad42dustycanyon6driftingorca9stormyotter67shadowgardener12jadesailor14Frank Alvarez8Kenneth Price8Walter Moore4Jose Miller3rustymoose54Robin Rodriguez5
dustycanyon6 dustycanyon6 Active Member
82 messages
joined Dec 2005
#21 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:If you’re hunting for the absolute best protein, look for these specs:
- saturated fat: 0 g (soy doesn't have any)
- cholesterol: 0 g (also zero)
- sugar: 0 g
- bioavailability index should be as high as possible—aim for 100 (that's why people mix soy and whey, which any nutritionist will tell you is the way to go)
- protein efficiency ratio (P.E.R.) - max 2.5

Soy is basically junk food, especially if you're a guy trying to pack on muscle. Generally speaking, it's not good for you... though there are a few products that are more or less okay, mostly things made exclusively from fermented soy, like tempeh, natto, or miso.

Check out the info under #8 Soy Articles: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=629609
casualnomad42 casualnomad42 Member
44 messages
joined Jul 2005
#22 ·
dustycanyon6 said:Soy is unhealthy, especially for those muscular guys looking to pack on some mass. Generally speaking, it’s bad news—though I suppose there are a few products that are more or less okay, provided they come strictly from fermented soy like tempeh, natto, or miso.

Look, I’m not claiming that the soy plant itself is some kind of miracle worker—I’m talking specifically about soy protein.

I mean, everyone loves to brag about their own horse, right?
Everyone has their own story, every company hypes their own stuff, every bodybuilder has their own specific recipe or training split, and so on...

But regarding soy protein, there’s a mountain of scientific research out there. It’s been shown to help prevent various cancers—prostate, stomach, breast—it helps regulate hormones (especially in women), and it’s actually the only plant-based protein that contains all nine essential amino acids.

And please, let’s not confuse GMO soy with the stuff that comes from strictly controlled cultivation and sourcing... 🙂

The info I rely on comes from much higher circles than just random internet forums (UCLA)—specifically from one of the most respected nutritionists in the world (David Heber).. 😉
He’s the Director of a human nutrition center and the Director of the National Cancer Institute. So, if this guy, after twenty years of studying proteins, plants, and how they impact the human body, says soy protein is the best and healthiest option, then I’m inclined to believe him.. 🙂

Now, I work in nutrition, though sports nutrition isn't exactly my primary specialty (but I know my way around it well enough), so I won't get bogged down in every tiny technical detail. That said, there is currently an overwhelming amount of results across various sports that back up what I'm saying, and we already have top-tier athletes here in the States who have felt the difference themselves.. 👍

Personally, I use Optimum Nutrition Whey Protein ("Has no fat, sugar, carbohydrates, yeast, cholesterol, salt, lactose, sweeteners or artificial colors") and I am incredibly satisfied with it. 😎
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#23 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:...

There’s Billi powder.
You’re back! 🎉 🎉 🎉
A big meeting with UCLA and David Heber.
I have to admit, I really missed you! 😍
George Bailey2 George Bailey2 Member
46 messages
joined Mar 2022
#24 ·
stormyotter67 said:And how much mass did you actually put on using that, George Bailey2???? How long have you even been taking protein?

I’ve been cycling through supplements for over 10 years now. To be clear, this specific stuff didn't build any muscle for me. Whatever gains I've made came from a combination of heavy lifting, strict dieting, other supplements, and plenty of sleep. Pure whey isn't going to do anything for you on its own.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be some "mass monster," but at 6'2", I'm sitting at a solid 205 lbs.

As for soy proteins: sure, soy has some benefits, but if it were truly superior to whey, pro athletes would be choosing it over whey every single time. From the bodybuilders and swimmers to the track athletes I know, the vast majority stick with whey. The biggest edge whey has is definitely the absorption speed—which is critical if you're looking to build muscle—and the high concentration of BCAAs, which are vital for recovery and preventing muscle breakdown.

Regarding the price, this 5lb tub, which should last about 2-3 months, goes for $143.
George Bailey2 George Bailey2 Member
46 messages
joined Mar 2022
#25 ·
shadowgardener12 said:Look, anything highly concentrated is basically poison—it’s just an unnecessary burden on your body, specifically the liver. Why mess with all that artificial junk when you have a whole world of natural, healthy options available?

First off, it is a massive misconception to assume that everything "natural" is automatically healthy. Some of the most potent toxins and drugs on the planet are entirely natural, but that doesn't make them good for you.
Second, shadowgardener12, I would actually love to hear you provide some concrete evidence regarding the supposed harm of protein shakes and their specific impact on liver function. I'm not sure if you realize how much of a baseless claim you just made. I fully expect you to come at me or maybe even get insulting, and I doubt I'll see any actual data or references from you to support the idea that protein supplements damage the liver. However, in the slim hope that you might actually be reasonable, I'm leaving a link here where you can check out the research and references concerning whey protein.
http://www.wheyoflife.org/benefits.cfm

And yeah, I should probably mention: shadowgardener12, protein is 100% natural—arguably more natural than half the stuff you consume throughout your day!

Thanks, and cheers everyone. 🙂
dustycanyon6 dustycanyon6 Active Member
82 messages
joined Dec 2005
#26 ·
casualnomad42 said:There’s actually a ton of scientific research out there on Soy Articles... It’s been shown to help prevent various types of cancer—things like prostate, stomach, and breast cancer—and it really helps balance hormones, especially for women. Plus, it’s pretty much the only plant-based protein that actually packs all nine essential amino acids...

I don't know... the way you talk about "soy protein" sounds a bit weird to me. It makes it seem like consuming that stuff means you aren't getting anything else in return, which just isn't how it works. These supplements are packed with other things found in soy, like isoflavones... and honestly, that's why I think kids—especially boys—should stay far away from anything containing soy. They even put it in baby formula! I have no idea what the deal is with the other nasty stuff typically found in soy, but you should probably look into the details... I'm still processing this... everything feels a bit much sometimes... just trying to make sense of it all...)...

Of course, let's not go mixing up regular GMO soy with the stuff that actually comes from strictly controlled farming and traceable sources... 🙂

If those products are coming straight out of the States, you can just assume that soy has some "strictly controlled cultivation and pedigree" or whatever... right? 😉

The info I’m using... well, let's just say it comes from some pretty high-level circles...U.C.L.A.Coming from one of the most respected nutrition experts on the planet...David Heber...) .. 😉
He is... Director of a human nutrition center I... Director of the National Cancer InstituteI mean, if a guy spends twenty years obsessively studying proteins, plants, and how they actually mess with or help the body... and then he turns around and says soy protein is the absolute best and healthiest option out there? Well, honestly, I’m taking his word for it... 🙂

The president of the American dietary association is actually claiming that sugar has absolutely nothing to do with developing diabetes! I mean, you just have to sit there and wrap your head around that one... 😉 For a certain amount of money, pretty much anyone can be bought... though honestly, it might not even just be about the cash. There are all sorts of other pressures at play out there. They’ve managed to spin soy into this "superfood" miracle, but let’s be real—it definitely isn't healthy, at least not in the way most Americans consume it these days (I'm talking about tofu and all those other products made from unfermented soy). Now, look, soy can be healthy in certain forms... I just don't know what the deal is with those protein powders. If they contain isoflavones, or whatever the technical term is, then it’s definitely not great for guys... just because of that alone, regardless of anything else in the mix...
George Bailey2 George Bailey2 Member
46 messages
joined Mar 2022
#27 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:There is a massive amount of scientific research on soy protein. It’s been proven to help prevent various types of cancer—like prostate, stomach, and breast cancer—it helps regulate hormones (especially in women), and it’s the only plant-based protein that actually contains all nine essential amino acids.

Fine, that's true. But if you're an athlete, whey is superior. Everyone knows why athletes drink protein; they aren't primarily doing it to prevent tumors. They do it for muscle mass, strength, endurance, recovery, and immune support.
Besides, check out the link I posted above. You'll find plenty of study results there regarding how whey protein impacts overall health.
casualnomad42 casualnomad42 Member
44 messages
joined Jul 2005
#28 ·
dustycanyon6 said:It honestly strikes me as odd how you’re talking about "soy protein"—it makes it sound like consuming this stuff means you aren't getting anything else in return. That just isn't the reality here, because these supplements are loaded with other compounds found naturally in soy, like isoflavones. Because of that—and I really mean this—kids, especially boys, absolutely should not be consuming products containing soy. It’s even being tossed into baby formula! I don't even want to go down the rabbit hole regarding all the other potentially harmful substances that typically show up in soy.

Oh, sure! If the products happen to be from the USA, then you can just go right ahead and tell yourself that this soy comes from some kind of "strictly controlled cultivation and traceable origin" process! I guess we're all just supposed to swallow that one, right? 😉

So, the President of the American Dietetic Association is out there claiming—get this—that sugar has absolutely nothing to do with the development of diabetes! I mean, really? Just... think about that for a second. Honestly, I can't even make sense of it. 😉

Let’s be real—for a certain amount of money, almost anyone can be bought. And honestly? I guess it might not even just be about the cash. There are all sorts of other pressures at play here, too—political leverage, industry influence, you name it. It's all part of the game.

They’ve gone and rebranded soy as this ultimate "health food," but let's be real—it absolutely isn't, at least not in the way most people around here are actually eating it (I'm talking about all that tofu and those processed soy products made from unfermented soy).

Look, soy can actually be healthy depending on how it’s processed—but I have serious doubts about this whole "protein powder" craze. If it's packed with isoflavones (or whatever those compounds are called), then it's definitely not a good move for guys—not even considering anything else in the mix.

I didn't say that—what I meant was, I use it as a meal replacement.Formula 1—honestly, where do we even begin? It’s such a chaotic mess of high-stakes engineering and sheer driver ego. I mean, don't get me wrong, the speed is incredible, but the politics behind the scenes? It’s enough to make anyone lose their mind. You have these massive teams fighting over technical regulations like they're deciding the fate of the universe, while fans are just sitting there trying to follow the madness. It feels like every race is less about the pure racing and more about who can outmaneuver the rulebook without getting caught by the stewards. It's exhausting, really.", (Protein shake mix.It’s all about finding that perfect balance—you know, the kind of meal that actually checks every single box. I'm talking about a complete setup where you get all the essential vitamins, minerals, carbs, and healthy fats required to make it a truly balanced meal. As for the protein side of things? I just use Optimum Nutrition Whey Protein as a supplement to bridge the gap—basically just to make sure I'm hitting my daily targets and staying satisfied. Daily nutritional requirements—it’s one of those things everyone talks about, yet nobody seems to actually get right. I mean, we’re constantly bombarded with these shifting guidelines, aren't we? One day it's all about macros, the next it's some hyper-specific micronutrient count—it feels like moving targets most of the time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there isn't just one magic number that fits everyone perfectly. It’s incredibly nuanced, though the mainstream media loves to act like it's a simple math equation. Between the varying activity levels and individual metabolic needs, trying to hit a "perfect" daily intake can feel like a full-time job—which, frankly, is exhausting. Maybe we should focus less on hitting every single decimal point and more on the overall quality of what we're putting in our bodies? Just my two cents, anyway. To maintain muscle mass and stay healthy... I mean, let's be real—it’s becoming an absolute uphill battle lately. Between all the conflicting advice flying around and the sheer amount of junk being pushed on us, it feels like you need a PhD just to figure out what to put on your plate. I guess it comes down to consistency, but even then, everything seems designed to make us fail. It's exhausting, honestly. 🙂

This drink is basically the perfect meal—it’s recommended for pregnant women, nursing moms, kids, athletes, seniors... honestly, just about everyone. I mean, if it weren't actually healthy and safe, they wouldn't be suggesting it to such a massive, diverse group of people, right? It just makes sense.

Look, I get where you're coming from—the question itself is perfectly valid—but please, let’s not go around offering answers to things we aren't actually sure about. If you don't have enough information to be certain, maybe just hold off on the commentary? It's better to stay quiet than to misguide people.
A lot of countries across Europe have incredibly strict laws when it comes to GMOs—it’s a huge deal over there. Even here in the States, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has set some pretty high standards, and people are actually starting to pay attention to it lately. I guess you could say the conversation is finally gaining some real traction. Dr. David Heber even weighed in on this, providing an answer to the question:
Does any of that stuff actually contain GMOs?
Look, there’s absolutely NO way. Our soy isn't some lab-grown GMO mess. We use what we call "hybrid soy with preserved identity"—if that makes sense. We actually have contracts in place with farms all over the globe. The seeds we use are hybrids developed from original, natural soy seeds—seeds that we've been strengthening for generations to be naturally resistant to pests (which is exactly why there's no need to douse them in pesticides).

So, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services just dropped their latest ruling—joining about sixty other countries that have already moved on this—and honestly, it’s about time... 🙂

I think that’s a bit of a mischaracterization—sugar isn't exactly a "direct" threat to your health in the way people make it out to be. I mean, let's be real: if you go out and eat a ton of sugar, you aren't just going to wake up one day suddenly transformed into a sugar addict... it doesn't quite work like that. 🙂
The real danger here—and I really believe this—is just sitting around and being completely sedentary. If you aren't burning off those sugars and carbs you consume, they don't just vanish into thin air; they turn into fat and get stored away in your body. Then, once you're dealing with excess weight, it starts messing with basically every bodily function, which eventually leads straight to Type 2 diabetes... it’s a vicious cycle, honestly.
Look, excessive sugar intake has absolutely become a massive danger—just look at the numbers. Back in 1880, the average consumption per person in the USA was only about 17 pounds a year, but today? We’re looking at nearly 140 pounds per person... I mean, even in places like Germany, they hit around 108 pounds, and we aren't far behind that at all... 😢

4) There is some truth to that... 🤔
I agree with you—there are bad actors in every industry, and honestly, it matters less what is being said and more WHO is actually saying it..
Dr. David Heber, until just two years ago, was exclusively tied to scientific research over at UCLA. He wasn't acting as a mouthpiece for some commercial corporation; he's authored 120 scientific papers and carries a level of prestige and experience that gives his opinion a much heavier "weight" than most.
The wellness industry is moving toward an era of much stricter quality control. Nowadays, maybe a third or even half of the bottles sitting on retail shelves don't actually contain what their labels claim—simply because it isn't a strictly regulated business. However, companies whose entire existence depends on wellness have way more to lose if they mess up. They tend to maintain much tighter quality control. Ultimately, no successful wellness (nutrition) company can afford to let low-quality products muddy their reputation in the market.

5) You're right, the market is flooded with everything under the sun these days, but you really have to cross-reference information from multiple sources before jumping to conclusions. If I believed every single thing journalists wrote in various newspapers and magazines, I'd probably think every "miracle diet" out there was healthy and actually worked... 😁

6) The FDA is approving new health claims regarding soy protein
casualnomad42 casualnomad42 Member
44 messages
joined Jul 2005
#29 ·
George Bailey2 said:Alright, that’s fine, but whey is clearly better for athletes. Everyone knows why they drink protein—it isn't primarily to prevent tumors; it's about muscle mass, strength, endurance, recovery, and immune support...
Besides, just look at the link I posted above; there are plenty of study results right there regarding how whey protein affects overall health.

The bottom line here is that whey protein is assimilated faster—meaning it gets integrated into the muscles more quickly—but there are honestly so many other factors that can totally derail that process (nicotine, coffee, certain medications, dehydration, etc.).

Look, protein is the building block for muscle cells, sure, but it's also what builds the cells for all our vital organs. In those cases, the speed of integration isn't even the main issue; it's actually more about the source (animal vs. plant). That’s why scientists are warning us that we should probably be getting at least a quarter of our daily protein from plant sources.
Since the tissue in every single organ is constructed from protein, getting adequate protein through whole foods is absolutely essential for feeding, repairing, and strengthening those organs.
And let's not forget—endurance and immunity depend on a massive range of other micro and macro nutrients too (vitamins, minerals, fats, carbs).

The final takeaway is that the best approach is a combination of Soy Articles and whey protein, because they complement each other perfectly and hit all five major criteria for QUALITY (pay close attention to numbers 4 and 5):

1.) It contains ALL 9 essential amino acids that the body can't produce on its own (isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine and cysteine, phenylalanine and tyrosine, threonine, tryptophan, valine, histidine).

2.) Little to no cholesterol.

3.) Little to no saturated fats.

4.) Protein Efficiency Ratio (P.E.R.) — up to 2.5. (A 2.5 score indicates a high-quality protein).

5.) Amino Acid Quantity Criterion — which measures digestibility and absorption. The maximum is 100.

I guess you could try digging around to see which proteins on the market actually meet the requirements of having a P.E.R. of 2.5 and an amino acid availability/digestibility score of 100. 😉
dustycanyon6 dustycanyon6 Active Member
82 messages
joined Dec 2005
#30 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:6) The FDA is greenlighting new health claims for soy protein

Don't fall for it... the FDA is a dangerous "health" organization that looks out for big corporate interests rather than actual people's health. I mean, haven't you heard about the recent scandals with drugs like Vioxx? ten members of the FDA advisory panel who voted that a group of powerful pain killers, including the controversial drug Vioxx, should continue to be sold had ties to the drug makers, a new analysis shows.!

And of all the possible articles to pick, you chose this one absolute nonsense, sponsored piece... just isolated "facts" used to "prove" something that isn't even true, or is at least a half-truth. Notice how the text only mentions women? I think the reason for that is pretty obvious... Besides, there's zero mention of the negative effects of consuming soy. Not a single word about phytic acid, which pulls essential minerals right out of your body, and you find it in unfermented soy. Plus, someone would get way more health benefits from cutting down on sugar than by upping their soy intake (if we were ignoring all the dangers soy brings along with it)... They also conveniently forget to mention that soy is one of the top ten allergens! It's all very clear...
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#31 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:.................

Hey there, MacGregor, Hummer / Mayo, and everyone else—how’s it going?
Don't you have a life outside of this? It seems like you're just trying to break up the boredom by copy-pasting the same old stuff on the IMF forums.
You're clearly trying to hawk that junk (pardon my French!), but it just isn't working for you.
dustycanyon6 dustycanyon6 Active Member
82 messages
joined Dec 2005
#32 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:3) That’s a bit of a misconception because sugar isn't a "direct" threat to your health... I mean, just eating a lot of sugar doesn't automatically turn you into a diabetic... 🙂
The real issue is being sedentary and inactive. If you don't burn off those sugars—those carbs—they just get stored as fat. Once you deal with excess weight, that starts messing with everything in your body, including leading straight to Type II diabetes...
Of course, consuming massive amounts of sugar has become a huge danger. For instance, back in 1880, the average per capita consumption in the USA was only about 17 lbs a year, but now it's skyrocketed to nearly 140 lbs... let's just say the numbers in Germany are around 108 lbs, and we aren't far behind that either... 😢

You are completely out of the loop here! Saying "sugar isn't a direct threat to your health"? How can you even write something like that!? It's like you've never even heard of insulin or leptin! Sugar can cause a decrease in your insulin sensitivity thereby causing an abnormally high insulin levels and eventually diabetes (that's number 22 out of the 76 ways sugar can wreck your health—and honestly, I think that number has probably gone up since then).
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#33 ·
dustycanyon6 said:You're completely clueless! Saying sugar isn't a "direct" health threat? How can you even write that?! It's like you've never even heard of insulin or leptin!

Well, what do you expect from someone who spent their whole career working construction?
Plus, his English isn't exactly great, so why bother wasting your time pasting quotes for him?
And he’s got this funny little logic where he thinks, "I don't need to know the facts to claim they're true, because someone else already knows them"—like our friend David Heber, for instance.
Frank Alvarez8 Frank Alvarez8 Member
43 messages
joined Jun 2005
#34 ·
Hummer / Mayo said:


You started off being pretty subtle, but now you’re really letting it all out!!!
McGregor-Hummer is back!!! 🙏 🙏 🙏
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#35 ·
Sarah Gomez52 said:You started out being pretty subtle, but now you're really letting it all out!!!
McGregor-Hummer is back in action!!! 🙏 🙏 🙏

The "party in your town" is officially starting.
🙂 🎉 🙂 🙂 🙂
🙂

By the way, did you get my private message about the boat?
Frank Alvarez8 Frank Alvarez8 Member
43 messages
joined Jun 2005
#36 ·
jadesailor14 said:The "party in your town" is officially starting.
🙂 🎉 🙂 🙂 🙂
🙂

By the way, did you get my DM about the boat?

Yeah, I got it, thanks. 🙂
dustycanyon6 dustycanyon6 Active Member
82 messages
joined Dec 2005
#37 ·
Aha... Now I see what's really going on... And here I was thinking Hummer / Mayo was just uninformed or maybe a bit naive—turns out his statements are actually pretty calculated... Look, I don't usually label people, but when McGregor or Hummer / Mayo writes something genuinely smart, I'll take it—but it’s becoming obvious his only goal is pushing those Herbalife products while completely dodging our points. What do you guys think... should we just ban him under this handle? 😉McGregor/Hummer/Mayo—can you actually say anything that isn't straight out of a Herbalife ad? Because honestly, your participation on this forum feels totally pointless at this point.
Kenneth Price8 Kenneth Price8 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jan 2005
#38 ·
Caught this wild lecture on whey and proteins in general. Honestly, whey is straight-up gold, but everyone sleeps on it. Such a waste...

p.s. anyone know if that Dukat protein stuff is still around? It was such a mess back then... I can't remember exactly, but the speaker swore by it.
Didn't realize whey had anti-cancer properties and could actually boost immunity... Guess I'm a believer now after hearing that talk.
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#39 ·
You can pick up some whey or other dairy byproducts from a local dairy, I think it was one out in the Midwest.
You’ll definitely find it at Walmart or Kroger. It usually comes in those square plastic liter bottles. A friend of mine absolutely loves it and says it's great!
Frank Alvarez8 Frank Alvarez8 Member
43 messages
joined Jun 2005
#40 ·
jadesailor14 said:You can pick up whey or other dairy byproducts from, I think, Dean Foods.
It should be available at Walmart or Kroger for sure. They come in those square liter plastic bottles. A friend of mine swears by it and thinks it’s great.

The whey from Dean Foods is definitely my favorite! You can find it at Walmart and Safeway.

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