Side effects of protein supplements? Specifically the "artificial" ones

jadesailor14 said:You can pick up some whey or other dairy byproducts from, I think, Dean Foods.
You’ll definitely find it at Walmart or Kroger. It comes in those square plastic liter bottles. A friend of mine chugs it constantly and swears it's the best thing ever.

Just so there's no confusion for the uninitiated—that liquid whey isn't a substitute for whey protein powder. This liquid stuff has a pretty low protein content compared to the powder.

Since we’ve got some actual protein experts hanging around here, I figured it would be worth looking beyond just the whole whey vs. soy debate. Maybe we could also talk about how the actual extraction process affects the quality of the protein itself? It feels like we need to cover that if we're ever going to actually wrap this topic up properly.

dustycanyon6 said:Aha... Now I see what's actually going on here... And to think I originally assumed Mayo was just uneducated or maybe a bit naive—turns out his statements are clearly very calculated... Look, I don't go around labeling people, but when someone like McGregor, or Hummer, or Mayo (clever little name choice there, by the way—playing off 'Mayo Clinic' to intimidate anyone who disagrees with him) actually posts something intelligent, I’ll give them credit. But it's becoming painfully obvious that his only goal is to shill Herbalife products while completely ignoring our actual arguments. What do you guys think—should we just ban him under this specific handle? 😉 McGregor/Hummer/Mayo—are you ever going to say anything that isn't pulled straight from a Herbalife marketing brochure? Because honestly, your participation in this forum is becoming totally pointless.

Can you really not think for yourself for more than five minutes without being steered toward something that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand? .. 😕 😢
(It's honestly not even worth debating those ridiculous characters who keep leading you toward the wrong conclusions)

I haven't spent 26 years studying nutrition, proteins, and their impact on health and the human body quite like the aforementioned dr. Heber has, but the information I get FROM HIM is something I actually apply in practice. I design individualized programs based specifically on protein intake, and the results are phenomenal—which is the only thing that truly matters... 😎

We're all just here to swap experiences and info, so believe whatever you want to believe. If you'd rather keep listening to those "ridiculous characters," then go right ahead—no problem there 😁

PS: Since you seem literate enough, maybe try doing some actual research online regarding the "ShapeWorks" programs, which are centered entirely around dietary protein levels... 👍

George Bailey2 said:Just so there isn't any confusion among the uninitiated—that whey can't be used as a substitute for actual whey protein powder, because this liquid whey vulgaris stuff actually has a pretty low protein content.

That just goes to show you how little these "clowns" actually know about what they're talking about... 😉 😁 👍

dustycanyon6 said:Don't let yourself be fooled—the FDA is a dangerous "health" organization that looks out for big corporate interests rather than actual human health. I mean, honestly, haven't you heard about the absolute disasters we've seen lately with drugs like Vioxx? It's infuriating.

Seriously? Of all the pieces out there, you actually picked this one? It’s a total joke—just a blatant, sponsored hit piece filled with nothing but cherry-picked "data" designed to "prove" something that isn't even true. It’s basically just half-truths wrapped up in fancy packaging to mislead people.

3) You notice that only women are being mentioned in this text—honestly, I think the reason for that is pretty damn obvious.

And besides that—there is absolutely zero mention of the actual damage caused by consuming soy. Not a single word about phytic acid, which, if you actually bother to look into it, strips essential minerals right out of your body—and this is specifically an issue with unfermented soy. It’s just completely ignored.

Look, let's be real here—you’re going to see way more actual health benefits from cutting back on sugar than you ever will from loading up on soy (assuming we were even ignoring all the massive red flags that come along with soy, which, let's face it, is a huge assumption).

And let’s not even get started on the fact that people conveniently forget soy is actually one of the top ten most common allergens out there! It's all right there in plain sight—if anyone would bother to look. Everything is perfectly clear, really.

Look, you just don't get it—neither the FDA nor the mainstream medical establishment holds those absolute, ironclad stances they used to when it comes to research from actual scientists and nutritionists. The conclusions drawn about food versus pharmaceuticals are shifting constantly. Honestly, drugs are losing this race more often than not lately; there’s a massive, growing consensus that eating real, healthy food is actually the most effective way to heal the body. 👍

Honestly, this article just confirms everything I already knew—and everything I’ve heard straight from dr. Heber. I mean, seriously, if you actually had an internet connection and took a second to educate yourself, you'd see that. 😉

3) Read that again:

The whole debate surrounding soy and men’s health—it’s honestly exhausting. I feel like every time you turn around, there’s some new, sensationalist headline claiming that eating a few tofu cubes is going to completely wreck your testosterone levels or turn you into a woman. It’s just... it's ridiculous. Look, I’m not saying we shouldn't be cautious about what we put in our bodies—we definitely should be—but this specific panic over soy feels incredibly exaggerated. I mean, where is the actual data? Most of these alarmist claims seem to stem from studies done on rats using massive, unrealistic doses of soy isoflavones that no human being would ever consume in a normal diet. If you're eating a balanced meal with some edamame or tempeh, you aren't suddenly going to lose your masculinity overnight. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to stop letting these extreme, fear-mongering narratives dictate our nutrition. We should probably look at more nuanced research—stuff from places like the National Institutes of Health—rather than just reacting to whatever scary thing pops up on a social media feed. Maybe we could all just take a breath and look at the actual science instead of panicking every time a plant-based protein shows up on the menu. It’s frustrating, really.

It seems like most of the research regarding how soy protein actually impacts our health has been focused almost exclusively on women—which, honestly, feels like a bit of a massive oversight if you ask me. So, there’s this new study out—and honestly, I’m still processing it—but it seems like we might finally be getting some actual clarity on things. It’s about time, I guess. In a study conducted over in Scotland, researchers took a deep dive into how soy protein and those soy isoflavones actually impact blood pressure and cholesterol levels. When it comes to men...The study actually involved 61 participants—though, honestly, I guess you have to wonder if that sample size is even enough to draw any real conclusions. Man. So, I was looking into this study involving people in that high-risk age bracket—you know, the 45 to 59 range where heart disease starts becoming a serious concern—and the results are actually pretty interesting. For five weeks, one group focused their diet on getting at least 20 grams of soy protein and 80 grams of soy isoflavones daily. Meanwhile, the control group just stuck to a standard diet supplemented with olive oil. By the end of the trial, the soy group showed a significant drop in both systolic and diastolic blood pressure, not to mention their total cholesterol levels. It’s worth noting that both groups saw an increase in HDL—that "good" cholesterol everyone talks about—but the impact on those blood pressure numbers for the soy group was quite substantial. I guess it goes to show that even small dietary shifts might actually move the needle when it comes to cardiovascular health. 🙂

It’s actually scientifically proven—though I guess some people still love to deny it—that soy protein helps regulate thyroid function and balances hormones in women. On top of that, there's evidence it can help prevent breast cancer, stomach cancer, and even prostate cancer in men... plus everything else mentioned above. 👍

So, let me get this straight—if we’re supposedly flushing out all these "essential" minerals every single time we hit the bathroom, what exactly is the logic here? Does that mean we should just stop peeing altogether? Or—and I'm just spitballing here—should we actually be focusing on getting more minerals through our diet? It seems like a bit of a circular argument if you think about it, but I guess I'm just questioning the fundamental premise being thrown around. 😁

Alright, we’re on the same page here—though, if I’m being honest, that comparison you made was a bit of a stretch. 😉

I feel like I’m constantly going on about this—honestly, it's all I talk about lately. So, about that soy protein... So, you’re actually out here lecturing me about the entire plant... seriously? 😛

dr. Heber said:6) I’m over here constantly talking about soy PROTEIN and you're out here obsessing over the entire plant... 😛

Wait, so allergens aren't proteins? Or are proteins not allergens? I'm confused...

Rachel Brooks63 said:Wait, are allergens not proteins? Or are proteins not allergens? I always get a little tripped up on that one!

Please, don't go confusing him!

Mayo said:Look, this is just a space for us to swap stories and info... everyone’s free to believe whatever they want. If you'd rather listen to those "funny characters" out there, go ahead... be my guest. No hard feelings... 😁

Look, all that advertising on products like the ones you’re talking about... I don't see that as actual information or real-world experience. It's just marketing. Pure and simple. And since that's basically the only argument you've brought to the table, I feel like we've hit a dead end here... I honestly couldn't care less what some Herbalife doctor says. At the end of the day, he isn't unbiased, and he can't be. You haven't actually provided any other "data"... so, really, what am I even supposed to take away from this?

Mayo said:You just don't get it... neither the FDA nor mainstream medicine holds those ironclad positions they used to when it comes to what scientists and nutritionists are actually finding. The conclusions are shifting. When you look at the race between drugs and nutrition, the meds are losing more often than not. There’s just more and more talk lately about how real, healthy food is actually the best way to heal the body... 👍

The FDA... man, they really just follow whatever way the wind blows. Basically, they just go wherever the money is... 😉 Honestly, big pharma companies are throwing massive amounts of money at the FDA just to get their drugs tested and approved. It creates this weird situation where the FDA actually has a financial incentive to greenlight as many drugs as possible without doing enough deep dives... and when things go sideways? They’re way too slow to pull dangerous, under-tested meds off the shelves. We see it happening all the time lately. If I remember correctly, there was some talk a couple of years back about moving toward regulating supplements more strictly, too. That would mean the FDA starts pulling even more profit from manufacturers making vitamins, minerals, and all those other supplements. And honestly, that’s going to be a huge market. Supplements are basically becoming a necessity for staying healthy... people are starting to believe that you can't really reach peak health through diet alone without them...

Honestly, this article just backs up everything I already knew... and everything I’ve heard straight from dr. Heber. Seriously, if you have an internet connection, maybe do a little digging for yourself... 😉

Please don't try to sell me on dr. Heber or anyone else caught up in those conflict-of-interest loops... I mean, when you see him basically endorsing stuff right on the Herbalife pages, his bias is pretty much staring you in the face. It’s just obvious... And honestly, with millions of doctors out there, is it really that hard to find someone with a different take? Even if their opinion goes against the mainstream medical consensus... it's worth looking into... I've stumbled across plenty of convincing arguments against soy online, though I'm still not totally sold on it myself. If you actually have some solid info, send over some links to high-quality sources... assuming anything like that even exists out there...

Read that again... carefully...

Soy and men’s health... it's one of those topics that always seems to spark a massive debate online, doesn't it? You see people getting really worked up about it... I've been looking into the actual science behind it lately. There's so much noise out there, especially when you hear certain claims about hormones or how soy affects guys. It can get pretty overwhelming if you don't know where to look for the real facts... But honestly, once you dig past the headlines and look at what the actual research says, things start to look a bit different. It’s worth taking a second to breathe and look at the data instead of just following the panic...

So, there's this NEW study out... and honestly, has anyone ever actually done one like this before? It feels like this might be the only one that’s coming up with these supposedly "positive" results. They had 61 men participate, which is a pretty solid number, I guess... but we're talking about an older crowd here. To be honest, I have no idea who actually ran the study or whose money was behind it. Plus, they aren't mentioning any side effects at all... which really makes me wonder if the conclusions are being skewed or just filtered to look good...

Science actually backs this up... soy protein helps regulate thyroid function and keeps women's hormones in check. Plus, there's evidence it can help prevent breast cancer, stomach cancer, and even prostate cancer in men... on top of everything else mentioned above...

It’s funny how people love to toss around the phrase "it's scientifically proven"... like it's some kind of ultimate, untouchable truth that you aren't allowed to question. It makes it sound so absolute... almost sacred. But honestly, who exactly is doing the proving? What kind of methods are they actually using? And more importantly... what about the downsides? Are there any negative side effects lurking under the surface? You have to wonder if those risks might actually outweigh the benefits in the long run...

"Regulates." That's such a nice, cozy little word, isn't it? It sounds so safe... But when it comes to soy and hormones, things get messy. Sure, maybe it could be useful for women dealing with low estrogen—if we just completely ignored all the nasty side effects that come with unfermented soy... But for everyone else? It’s pretty much toxic. And honestly, that probably includes almost every man out there too...

Here’s a quote from another page...

It’s honestly pretty wild how soy somehow became this "health food" everyone swears by... when you look at what Dr. Heber says, it's a different story entirely. There are thousands of studies out there linking it to all kinds of issues—malnutrition, gut problems, even messing with your immune system and thyroid. It goes way beyond that, too... we're talking cognitive decline, reproductive issues, infertility, and even links to cancer and heart disease. Just crazy how much the narrative has shifted...

So, if those "essential" minerals are getting flushed out every single time we hit the bathroom... what does that actually mean for us? Are we supposed to just stop peeing? Or is it more about the fact that we probably need to be loading up on way more minerals through our diet? ... 😁

That’s honestly such a silly thing to say... I’m pretty bummed you don't see that yourself. I really hope I don't have to sit here and break down exactly why it's so ridiculous...

Alright, we’re on the same page here... though I gotta say, that comparison you made was a bit of a stretch... 😉

I honestly don't get why people think that's a fair comparison... It just doesn't hold up. Sugar is one of those massive, driving factors behind heart disease and vascular issues, not to mention a whole host of other health problems too... It’s hard to ignore the connection there.

I feel like I'm constantly talking about... So, about that soy protein... So you're actually talking about the entire plant... 😛

I’ve been seeing all these fitness blogs claiming that soy protein is just as bad as actual soy because they share the same "toxic" profile. It seems like a pretty logical jump to make, right? If the plant itself is problematic due to certain compounds, then the protein derived from it must be too... But I wanted to see if anyone here knows more about the actual science behind this. Like, what exactly stays in the protein isolate versus what remains in the whole bean? Are we talking about the absence of isoflavones in those processed supplements? Or maybe the phytic acid—which can be a real nightmare and usually needs fermentation to break down—isn't even present in the final product? There are so many different stuff found in plain old soy... just curious if anyone has a different take on the breakdown...

dustycanyon6 said:Look, I don't consider the promotional material slapped onto products like the ones you're talking about to be actual information or lived experience—it’s just straight-up marketing. And since that's the only "evidence" you're bringing to the table, I guess we're done here; there isn't much left to debate. Honestly, I couldn't care less what some Herbalife doctor has to say—he’s clearly not objective, and he certainly can't be. You haven't provided any other real data or insights—so, really, what am I supposed to conclude from all this?

Look, draw whatever conclusions you want. I’ve laid out the facts exactly as I see them—information I genuinely believe is accurate and solid. You can take what I've said, go ahead and verify it yourself, and then decide whether to accept it or just shut it down right here and now. That’s your prerogative—it's your right, after all—and honestly, I don't have any problem with that one bit. 🙂

If you actually take a second to look closer at the facts, you might realize that this "Herbalife doctor" didn't just stumble into this field—he spent twenty-six years building up his expertise, earning his credentials, and establishing a real reputation long before he ever stepped foot in Herbalife (which, let's be honest, was only about two years ago). I mean, seriously... maybe you should start asking yourself some actual questions? Like, how does that even work, and more importantly, why would someone make that move?

dustycanyon6 said:The FDA is clearly just following the money—it’s all about where the big checks are being written! 😉 Look, let’s be real here—pharmaceutical companies are cutting massive checks to the FDA just to get their products tested and greenlit. It creates this massive conflict of interest where the FDA essentially wants to approve as many drugs as possible to keep the gears turning, often without doing any thorough vetting. And when things go south? They are agonizingly slow to react if a drug turns out to be dangerous due to insufficient testing—which, frankly, seems to be happening way too often lately. If I recall correctly—and I might be slightly off on the exact timing—there was a huge debate a year or two ago about bringing supplements under the same regulatory microscope. If that happens, the FDA stands to make a killing from manufacturers of vitamins, minerals, and all those other dietary supplements. Honestly, supplements are about to become a total juggernaut. They’re already becoming indispensable because there's this growing, undeniable consensus that you simply can't reach peak health through diet alone without some kind of supplementation. It's becoming the new standard.

If people actually understood the kind of uphill battles and absolute nonsense those who advocated for healthy eating twenty-five years ago had to endure—back when everyone claimed nutrition was the ultimate key to wellness and disease prevention—they’d realize I’m not some spokesperson for the FDA (honestly, I couldn't care less about them). I’m just standing here, practically gloating, because even they have finally come to the realization that pills aren't always the best way to fix a human body.

The reality is—and I can't stress this enough—that now even the big pharma giants have suddenly decided to start churning out all these vitamin supplements. It’s almost laughable. They haven't laid eyes on a single real, whole plant in their entire lives—not one! 😁 (zaključak donesi sam)
Look, you have to understand—the pharmaceutical industry doesn't actually "manufacture" soy protein. Because they don't own the product, they can't exactly cut them checks to spread misinformation, either. Once in a while, the actual truth manages to break through the noise... and honestly, that’s exactly what happened here.

I’m with you on this one—I honestly don't think a diet can ever be truly optimal without some form of vitamin supplementation. I mean, let's be real, unless you're living on a perfectly curated, scientifically engineered menu every single day, there are going to be gaps. I guess you could argue otherwise, but in my opinion? It's just not happening. 😎
I’m going to go out on a limb here—and I know I’m not the only one thinking this—but it feels like the fruits and vegetables we’re buying today just don't have the same nutritional punch they did 10 or 20 years ago. It’s like the vitamins and minerals have just... evaporated? If you want to actually get a decent dose of those essential nutrients now, you basically have to eat massive quantities of produce just to make up the deficit—which, of course, leads straight into the calorie trap. That’s the real danger right there. Honestly, just do me a favor: go talk to your parents or your grandparents. Ask them about the taste—and I mean the actual *flavor* and aroma—of fresh produce back in their day compared to what we see on the shelves at Walmart today. Once you hear their stories, you can probably draw your own conclusions.
P.S. — there are actually some out there too... Scientific research—it’s a phrase that gets thrown around constantly these days, doesn't it? People love to toss it out there to justify just about anything, but I honestly find myself questioning how much of what we see is actually vetted. It’s easy to claim something is "proven" when, in reality, it might just be one outlier study that hasn't even been properly peer-reviewed yet. I mean, maybe I'm being too cynical, but you have to wonder about the funding behind these studies—who is actually paying the bills? If the money is coming from a massive corporation with a vested interest in the outcome, can we really trust the results? It’s a mess, frankly. We need more transparency, more rigor, and way less hype if we're ever going to get to the truth. Regarding that whole situation—look, just go ahead and verify it for yourself. I mean, draw your own conclusions. 😉

dustycanyon6 said:Please, just don't try to lecture me using dr. Heber or people like him—it’s all a massive conflict of interest. I mean, when he’s out there actively promoting himself on Herbalife’s own pages, his "unbiased" stance becomes pretty obvious, doesn't it? It's almost laughable. And honestly, with millions of doctors out there, is it really that much to ask to find even one person with a different perspective? Even if that viewpoint happens to run counter to the medical establishment's consensus, surely someone exists. As for soy—look, I’ve stumbled across plenty of convincing arguments against it online, though I'm not entirely sold on the whole thing myself. If you actually have some solid info or data, please, send over some links to high-quality sources—assuming anything actually credible exists out there.

Look, I’ve said this before—and I’ll say it again—Heber built his entire reputation and expertise long before he ever stepped foot at Herbalife. Everything he does now is just an attempt to take that established knowledge and actually get people to apply it in the real world.

Look, I’m sticking with him—believe whoever you want, that’s fine by me, but that’s where I stand. Period. 🙂

dustycanyon6 said:They included AS MANY AS 61 men—which, okay, I guess that sounds like an impressive number to some people—but let's be real here: we're talking about nothing but elderly guys. Honestly, I have no clue who actually ran this study or whose pockets were being filled to fund it, but they conveniently failed to mention any negative side effects. That just screams to me that the results might be biased or, at the very least, heavily filtered. It makes you wonder about the integrity of the whole thing.

What the hell are you even talking about? I honestly can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say.
So, you’re telling me we need to run studies on millions of people just to get a straight answer? Give me a break. To figure out if a certain fruit extract actually helps eye health—as if that's even a question—you don't exactly need a massive census. Honestly, I think one single "test subject" would be more than enough to prove the point. Just one. 😉
Look, the doubts are all in your head—not mine—and honestly? You’re wasting your own energy stressing over this, whereas I couldn't care less. 🙂

dustycanyon6 said:It’s just so incredibly convenient, isn't it? To toss around phrases like "scientifically proven" as if they're some kind of holy, untouchable gospel that nobody—and I mean *nobody*—is allowed to question. It’s presented as this absolute, unshakeable truth that sits there above all criticism. But honestly, it makes me wonder... who exactly is doing the proving? What kind of methods are we actually talking about here? Because science isn't just some magic wand you wave to end a conversation. There have to be potential downsides, right? I mean, surely there are negative consequences to consider. And more importantly—and this is the part people always seem to gloss over—are those negative side effects actually worse than the supposed benefits? It feels like we're just skipping straight to the conclusion without looking at the fine print.

Look, if you can actually get me dr. Heber’s email address, why don't you just go ahead and send him the questions yourself? I mean—if you really want to go down that road—it might be better if you handled it.

dustycanyon6 said:"Regulates." What a lovely, deceptive little word, isn't it? People love using it to make everything sound scientific and safe. If we were talking about women struggling with low estrogen levels—and let’s just assume, for a second, we’re ignoring the massive downsides that come with unfermented soy—then sure, maybe there's a case to be made for it being useful. But for everyone else? It’s essentially toxic. And honestly, that probably includes almost every man on the planet.

Honestly, any decent gynecologist worth their salt is going to tell you the exact same thing I just did—it’s not exactly groundbreaking stuff. This isn't some revolutionary secret; you can find this information pretty much anywhere if you actually bother to look. If you're skeptical about any of it, fine—do your own digging and verify it yourself. 😉

dustycanyon6 said:Explain why that’s such a terrible comparison! I honestly don't get it—sugar is one of the primary drivers behind heart disease, cardiovascular issues, and a whole host of other health problems too.

I already typed out a reply to you, but you beat me to the punch.
Sugar is only harmful if it turns into fat—basically, when it isn't burned off—and since that happens about 98% of the time because people don't move enough and eat garbage filled with sugar, that’s why the warnings exist. I mean, surely you know someone who eats sweets all day and isn't overweight?

dustycanyon6 said:According to those bodybuilding websites, soy protein contains all the same nasty stuff as soy itself, so it’s logical to assume that if soy is bad, soy protein is just as bad. Or do you actually know something different? What exactly is missing from soy protein that's present in whole soy? Are you trying to tell me these soy protein supplements don't have isoflavones? Or phytic acid—which is incredibly harmful but gets destroyed during fermentation? Those are just a few of the toxic elements found in soy...

There are endless "bodybuilding sites" where everyone has their own "unique" theory—feel free to keep reading them, but personally, I’ll stick to actual scientists.

See, I used to be into bodybuilding myself (I even started a club once), and I've come across info in plenty of places suggesting that a combo of soy and whey protein is the best way to go—though I might have forgotten the exact reasoning (or maybe I never truly understood it).

What I assume is that you need fast-acting proteins (whey) alongside ones that do the long-term "heavy lifting" (soy). It's probably a similar situation with carbs, where you need both "slow" and "fast" versions.

You're claiming things you read somewhere without actually bothering to fact-check them, whereas I've found different information that—well, it actually supports my point...

KANLI CAPSULES (ISOFLAVONES)
Ingredients: Soy isoflavone—a natural medicinal ingredient extracted from soy.

PS: This has nothing to do with Herbalife, and no, these weren't written by "Herbalife doctors." 😉

mayo said:The reality is that Big Pharma suddenly decided they're vitamin manufacturers too, even though they haven't laid eyes on an actual plant in years... 😁 (draw your own conclusions)

Pharmaceutical companies started churning out vitamins a long, long time ago—way before Herbalife was even a thing.

And where does Herbalife actually have plantations for non-GMO, pesticide-free soy, fruit, and veggies? Probably in some perfectly healthy corner of America? 😁 Or maybe they just have a few small-time HL dealers pumping out vitamin pills. 😁

mayo said:PS: There are actually some scientific studies on this. Go check them out for yourself (draw your own conclusions).

Ooh... a "scientific" article... 🙄

Sarah Gomez52 said:1) Pharmaceutical companies started churning out vitamins a long, long time ago—way before Herbalife was even a thing.

2) And where exactly does Herbalife have these plantations of non-GMO, pesticide-free soy, fruit, and veg? Probably in some perfectly healthy version of America? 😁 Or maybe they just have tiny little HL dealers who sit around pooping out vitamin pills. 😁

Honestly, your claims are so pathetic that it’s actually getting sad to watch... 😢

1) Stop talking nonsense—do a little actual research for once. HL was founded back in 1980, at a time when the very lobby you're so desperately defending didn't even realize that plants could be a source of health (rather than just relying on drugs). 😁

2) If you were actually curious, you could just ask a simple question instead of blathering on aimlessly... the plantations are located all over the world (Brazil, India, China, etc.)—mostly wherever those specific crops grow best—but I guess that doesn't matter to you. All that matters is having something to spit on... you're just pathetic. 😢

Look, Macbudalaš, this forum is a public space, so if you have something to say to me, just say it here for everyone to see. You aren't really someone I’d ever bother chatting with via PM. I already told you that back when you were trying to talk me into attending that HL meeting.
Come on, man, show a little backbone and stop acting like such a pushover all the time.

You know, Mayo... I’m getting a little tired here, so I think I’ll just step back from this topic. It feels like I’m talking to a brick wall. Let me say this one more time: do you honestly believe dr. Heber is just out there promoting Herbalife for the fun of it? Look, the guy isn't necessarily untrustworthy—I’m not saying everything he says or stands for is wrong—but there is a massive conflict of interest here. We just can't take anything he says at face value... he's only going to highlight the stuff that benefits Herbalife. So, I'll say it again: stop pushing dr. Heber on people.

And on a completely different note regarding soy:

I already gave you my answer, but you cut me off.
Sugar is only harmful if it turns into fat—meaning if it's stored because you didn't burn it off. Since that happens about 98% of the time because people don't move enough and eat junk food loaded with sugar, that's why they warn us about it. I mean, surely you know someone who eats sweets all day and isn't overweight?

I'm going to quote what I already quoted once before: Sugar can cause a decrease in your insulin sensitivity thereby causing an abnormally high insulin levels and eventually diabetes... are you seriously telling me that's not true?

dustycanyon6 said:I really have to say this one more time: do you honestly believe Dr. Heber is advertising himself with Herbalife for nothing? Look, this isn't about whether his scientific claims are wrong—I'm not saying that—but there is a massive conflict of interest here. We just can't take anything he says at face value because, well, he’s only going to highlight the stuff that benefits Herbalife. So, I’ll say it again: stop pushing Dr. Heber on people.

I honestly don't get how you can make such sweeping generalizations when you don't even know him—you haven't even met the guy! ... I’ve listened to him multiple times, I’ve actually met him in person, and I have several videos where you can clearly see how genuinely passionate he is about his work (which I could show you, if you actually wanted to see them) ... the man simply found a way through Herbalife to put his research into actual practice .... and he always speaks with pride about how Herbalife changed his life.👍

He doesn't need anyone to hype him up; his expert opinion has been featured everywhere in the media, including NBC, CNN, and Discovery Channel.
He serves as a Director at the National Institutes of Health, the Director of the Dietary Supplement Research Center, the Director of the National Cancer Institute – Division of Clinical Nutrition, and leads obesity training subsidized by the NIH.
Dr. Heber's primary research focus is on obesity treatments, nutrition for cancer prevention, and related therapies. He is the director of the UCLA Center for Human Nutrition at the University of California, Los Angeles.
As a founding director of the UCLA Center for Human Nutrition, Dr. Heber has documented just how vital it is to use an individualized plan to achieve healthy weight loss. This includes healthy eating and personalized slimming through ShapeWorks.

Dr. Heber’s research confirms that a lean, low-calorie protein diet is essential for losing weight. "The key is matching the proteins in your diet with the proteins in your body," says Dr. Heber. "Meal replacement shakes are ideal for achieving this goal."

I'm not sure if you can even grasp the level of prestige this man holds in nutritional science circles, or the sheer depth of his knowledge, but from what I can see, it doesn't matter to those who aren't actually looking for information, but are just hunting for a reason to trash everything... 😉

You keep harping on about some "conflict of interest" because, unfortunately, that seems to be the only way some people here know how to think. Plenty of successful people and scientists have realized what Herbalife is all about and they join for the challenge, not just the money. Nobel laureate Dr. Ignarro did it, and so did Michael O. Johnson, the current president of the company, who was a top manager at Walt Disney for 17 years. He's also an athlete (triathlon), and he’s the one who brought Herbalife closer to the world of sports. When elite athletes—who live on supplements their entire lives—feel the difference and the power of "cellular nutrition," it shouldn't be hard to imagine how that translates to the average person.

Look, the topic here was about proteins, and I am simply here to advocate for, explain, and argue the information I have. I am defending my views against your attacks, which mostly lack any real substance. Mentioning such distinguished experts should at least give you something to think about, but apparently, that's not happening here... 🙂 😎

dustycanyon6 said:I’m going to repeat what I’ve already said once before: Sugar can cause a decrease in your insulin sensitivity thereby causing an abnormally high insulin levels and eventually diabetes — are you seriously telling me that isn't true?

Look, I’m not saying it’s false, but pay close attention to that one little word: CAN... 😉
It feels like I’m talking about apples and you’re over there arguing about pears... 😁

I honestly don't know how else to explain this to you... sugar MIGHT cause all those issues, sure, but it isn't a guaranteed sentence if a person is actually healthy and stays active... obviously, it isn't a good idea to go overboard on sugar (saturated carbs) because people get used to it and just stop paying attention—sodas and pastries are absolute "bombs" that you really shouldn't be consuming in massive quantities.. 👍

overloaded carbs 🙂 🙂 🙂

rustymoose54 said:saturated carbs 🙂 🙂 🙂

Now you're just being a contrarian for the sake of it. 😁