Kamikaze - Hurricane

Kamikaze pilots... they were basically flying suicide missions, diving planes loaded with explosives straight into the US Navy to sink ships. Sometimes they weren't even in the cockpit themselves, just launching guided bombs from bombers... It was intense. They managed to take down a massive amount of American vessels.

This was actually how the orders went for those Kamikaze pilots:
˝Returning alive isn't an option. Your mission demands everything, including your life. Your body might perish, but your spirit stays. When one of you falls, it paves the way for millions more. Don't let anything distract you—not even something as small as your gear or your health. You can't leave anything behind to cause regret that follows you through eternity. And, look, don't rush into death blindly. If you can't hit your target, come back. Maybe next time will be better. Just make sure the death you choose makes the biggest impact possible.˝

Here’s what an American Vice Admiral, Brown, had to say about them:
˝I doubt anyone among us who served there, out in the Philippines and over at Okinawa, could ever truly explain the mess of emotions we felt watching someone die—someone who chose to end it all just to destroy us in the process. There was something in that sight, something so foreign to our Western way of thinking, that just felt surreal. We watched every Kamikaze pilot plummet toward us with this kind of detached horror, like witnesses to some terrible cosmic event rather than just victims waiting to be hit. For a second, you'd almost forget yourself, just desperately trying to wrap your head around what that person up there was thinking...˝

What's your take though? Were the Kamikaze just fanatics chasing something impossible, or maybe just fools following leaders blindly? Or were they actual heroes dying with Honor for their country?

Most were likely heroes, but there were surely fools among them as well...

I don't know much about the specifics, but I watched this interview with an old man who was slated to go into combat as a Kamikaze, only for the war to end before he could.

He said it was just business as usual—you get your orders, you get your assignment, and that’s that. No big drama, no fuss. They knew exactly what would happen if they didn't show up. Still, he was clearly relieved when he heard he wasn't heading off to the front. 😁

He didn't come across as some fanatic or some naive kid, either. Just a regular guy looking back on the war and telling his story.☕

brightorca19 said:Kamikaze or suicide pilots would voluntarily crash planes loaded with explosives straight into American ships to sink them. These suicide pilots also operated flying bombs, which were mostly launched from bomber aircraft. The Kamikaze sank a massive number of American vessels.

This was how the orders went for the Japanese Kamikaze:
"Returning alive is not an option. Your mission demands both steadfastness and your death. Your bodies will perish, but your spirit will live on. The death of one among you will lead to the birth of millions more. Do not neglect anything that might harm your boots or your health. You must leave behind no cause for regret to haunt you for eternity. And finally, do not rush toward your end. If you cannot find your target, return. Perhaps next time you will have a better opportunity. Choose the death that will achieve the greatest impact."

Here’s what American Vice Admiral Brown thought about the Kamikaze:
"I doubt there is anyone among us who was there, on the Philippines or on Okinawa, who could fully describe our mixed emotions while watching a man perish—a man who decided to die just to destroy us in that very act. There was something in that sight, so foreign to our Western philosophy, that felt extraordinary. We watched every Kamikaze pilot plunge downward with more detached horror than the usual dread of people witnessing a terrible event. For a moment, we would forget ourselves, desperately trying to grasp the thoughts of that man up there..."

What do you guys think? Were the Kamikaze fanatics chasing something they could only achieve this way—basically fools following their leaders' ideals—or were they heroes who died with Honor fighting for their homeland?

I actually did my senior history project on the Kamikaze! And if I remember right, you pulled this stuff from that documentary that was on American TV ages ago... it was such a great doc! I actually have it recorded, and honestly, I think it does the best job explaining what the Kamikaze really were...

That kind of devotion and Honor! Seriously, if you haven't seen the documentary, it covers absolutely everything. If anyone's interested... shoot me a PM.

Being a Kamikaze was considered the ultimate Honor back then. My favorite part is this one true story at the end of the show—basically, not just anyone could become a Kamikaze. It could only be someone who had no one left, you know? Like, no family to mourn them. There was this one story about a Kamikaze, his wife, and three daughters (if I recall correctly) who took their own lives so he could fulfill that role.

It's wild how much that meant to them.

Btw, isn't this supposed to be a history thread?

Doesn't matter, it's a good one.

"Such unwavering devotion and Honor!"

Honestly, you’d have to be a complete fool to act like that, especially when you're serving a leader who considers himself a god.🙏

The Undertaker said:I actually did my senior history project on the Kamikaze, and if I recall correctly, you pulled this from that one documentary they aired on CNN ages ago... it was a killer documentary! I’ve got it recorded, and I truly believe it's the best explanation of what being a Kamikaze actually meant..

That kind of devotion and Honor! If you haven't seen that documentary, it covers absolutely EVERYTHING. If anyone's interested... shoot me a PM.

Being a Kamikaze was considered the ultimate Honor back then. My favorite part is the true story at the end of the film; basically, you couldn't just become a Kamikaze whenever you wanted. You could only be one if you had no one left—meaning no family to mourn you. There was this one case where a man, his wife, and three daughters (if I remember right) all took their own lives just so he could qualify to be a Kamikaze.

It's unbelievable how much that meant to them.

This guy actually had both parents alive. 😕 There was also another documentary where a man talked about it being an Honor, but he didn't mention that you can only be a Kamikaze if you have nobody left.

Since you clearly know way more about this than I do—can you tell me which documentary it is? It felt like something from the BBC, but I can't remember the title. I watched it a few months ago.

Ugh, you’re really making me go all the way down to the basement for this, aren't you? I am seriously the laziest person alive... but alright, fine! Let me go dig around and check for you.

I actually wrote this a while back for my high school graduation project based on that documentary... it was kind of a rough draft, you know? :

"By May, almost all the original volunteers were gone, which meant they desperately needed new pilots and new officers to keep that samurai spirit alive. Not everyone could be a Kamikaze pilot, though. Those with a lot of experience had to step up and look after the others—they basically ended up in the Kamikaze administration wing.
Toward the end of the war, they even started forming new Kamikaze units out of students who had maybe only 30 hours of flight training under their belts. And get this—even these new recruits stuck to that whole code of voluntary self-sacrifice. All those stories about pilots being drugged or tied down? Total fiction. They went willingly.
Every single day, volunteers would step forward to fly. Some guys would constantly try to put their names
on the list, but they’d always be crossed off because the brass needed them to train the next batch of pilots.
As they headed into battle, the Kamikaze had this song they’d sing right before takeoff:

“Farewell to the little green island.
Goodbye to my hometown.
Goodbye to the hands waving white handkerchiefs.
Our golden flower on our pilot caps shines just like our spirit.
Oh blue sky, great big sky, you are receiving us, brave pilots.”

Some of them would sing that song not just once, but four times in a row! Which means, hey, not every Kamikaze was "lucky" enough to die instantly; plenty of them actually survived.
The only way to stop a Kamikaze was total destruction. They were moving so fast that you had to wipe them out within 20 seconds of them getting close.
The data shows that among Allied anti-aircraft gunners, cases of PTSD more than doubled.
At one point in May, the Allied commanders were actually seriously considering pulling back from Okinawa because of the Kamikaze.
Americans took the biggest hit. Four British carriers had steel decks, but the American ones were much more vulnerable since they used wooden decks.
A Kamikaze plane could dive straight into the hangars and torch hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel.
Eventually, even among the Kamikaze ranks, things started sliding into neglect and disobedience.
Officers were ordered to crack down and enforce discipline.

Okinawa fell on June 23, 1945. It was the first time in 12 weeks that the Allies could finally sit down and assess the damage.

Okinawa, April 1 – June 23:
-Number of Kamikaze planes launched - 1915
-Allied ships sunk - 36
-Allied ships damaged - 368
-Allied soldiers wounded - 4800
-Allied soldiers killed - 5000

I've lost it... I don't know where the rest of it is...😕

And listen, Mr. Miller... it's obvious you don't really get it...
Unlike Westerners, who can be a bit soft, people in the East—especially the Japanese people—valued Honor above everything else.

Look, I don't know where you grew up, probably just some neighborhood with your buddies and whatever, blah, blah, blah... but Japanese people were simply raised differently. Dying for the Emperor and for something sacred? That was considered an Honor!

You can't just brush that off! That's a completely different culture! It's why Japanese companies are leaders in business today—every single worker is incredibly loyal to their company... unlike our strikers back home... which seems crazy to us, but you have to look at all the factors involved.

How am I supposed to explain the Revolutionary War to you if we look at it through our own lens? Like, if soldiers just stood in line waiting for someone to fire, then they fire, then they wait again... it doesn't work like that.
These are historical events that shouldn't be judged solely by our perspective, otherwise, they'll make absolutely no sense at all.

feralhawk10, I’ll get that tape sent over to you...😁

I honestly have so much respect for the Japanese people... if we were even half as disciplined as they are, man, where would we be? When they go on strike, they just wear a sign saying "on strike" and then actually get their work done, which basically shames their boss for letting things get that far. And remember that story about their transport minister? He took his own life years ago just because the trains were delayed by maybe twelve minutes total over an entire year, I think...
It's the same thing with the Kamikaze. Those were people driven by pure Honor and pride. You really have to hand it to them, they had some serious guts...

I’m not entirely certain I’d go so far as to lay down my life for anyone—not because I’m particularly fearful, mind you, but rather because sacrificing one's existence seems like a rather pointless endeavor, wouldn't you agree?🙂

Well. That terrifyingly noble quest for Meaning.
For Purpose. For Honor.
What a killer!

Rista seems to buy into everything you say about honor, but let's be honest: that kind of "honor" is nothing more than fanaticism.
We see modern parallels to this exact brand of supposed "honor" all the time—take the radicalized suicide bombers we see in the news today. The only real difference back then was that those fighters were specifically targeting military personnel. But if you pull on that thread, you'll see the pattern: it’s not about critical thinking or using one's own intellect; it’s about being indoctrinated from childhood to believe blindly in some deity.

feralhawk10 said:Look, I get why someone would argue about Honor, but honestly? That whole concept is just pure fanaticism.
You can see almost the exact same thing happening today with those suicide bombers. The only real difference back then was that they were mostly targeting military forces. But if you really sit down and draw the parallel, you'll see it's all just indoctrination from childhood and blind faith in a deity instead of actually using your own brain.

Wait, I didn't even say... I mean, my whole point—if I'm drawing a conclusion here—is that they are fanatics! And yeah, that mindset has carried on right up to the present day, even if there are some tiny differences between them and what we see now...

Even for the Japanese people early on, the idea of suicide missions wasn't exactly easy to swallow... oh man, imagine how you'd handle watching a movie like that... aaaaaah!

The Undertaker said:Ugh, because of you I actually have to dig through the basement, and I am feeling lazy... fine, I'll go check for you.

Thanks for the excerpt! 🙂 It’s interesting, and it actually ties into what I was looking into. Not everyone involved were volunteers, either.
Honestly, their culture just fascinates me; we are never going to truly wrap our heads around it. And what people fail to realize is that the unknown—that's what scares them. 😁

When you look at how they live—organized like ants, pure self-discipline... they remind me of the Borg.😲

I don't think an individualist who sees the utter pointlessness of war can find even a shred of admiration for that fanatic way of "living"—or rather, dying—but it is fascinating that people like that still exist today. You can't help but ask "why?".
The very concept of common sense on this planet is like a chameleon—it's entirely shaped by its environment. 😁

Honestly, I find their culture absolutely fascinating. It’s something we will likely never truly grasp, and I suppose what people fail to realize is that fear is what drives them.

Don't you think something like this could happen in any culture? I mean, granted, it depends on the specific historical and social context. But personally, I believe it can happen, it has happened before, it is happening now, and it will certainly happen again.

Jason Morgan2 said:You think this can't happen in any other culture? Sure, it depends on the specific historical and social landscape. My point is that it can happen, it has happened, and it will happen again.

Did I ever actually say it couldn't happen?😕 Did you even bother reading my entire post?😁

brightorca19 said:"Survival isn't even part of the equation here. Your mission demands both total commitment and your own demise. Your bodies will be gone, but your spirit stays behind. When one of you falls, it sparks the birth of millions more. Watch your step—don't let anything damage your boots or your health before the time comes. Leave nothing behind that would cause regret in the afterlife. And for heaven's sake, don't rush the end. If you can't find your mark, just head back. Maybe the next opportunity will be more favorable. Choose the death that carries the most weight."

I finally understand why my brain has been stuck in this endless loop.😎

For the last fifteen years, I've been living by that Kamikaze philosophy—the idea that someone has to pay the ultimate price so everyone else can live.

So, yeah, it actually makes sense. I'm not just shooting at nothing, though maybe... just maybe... shooting at nothing wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

Jason Morgan2 said:Don't you think this could happen in any culture? I mean, given the right historical or social context, sure. Personally, I think it can happen, it has happened, and it’ll probably happen again.

🙂 Look, I find Japanese culture fascinating because, in many ways, I feel like they're actually anticipating what future advanced societies might look like. Their radical approach to daily life and their level of consumerism... it seems like a logical next step for Western cultures, I guess.
On the flip side, their value system is truly unique. You can see this deep-seated traditionalism even in their modern language, and it's really the root of this whole topic. The Japanese people appreciate life, but they don't view death as something inherently bad. Why do they celebrate cherry blossoms? Because they die at the peak of their beauty. 🙂 Zen, as an intellectual concept, relies entirely on that specific moment. Thinking about death, or being afraid of it, just doesn't fit into the concept.
Anyway, I love Japan. 😍

feralhawk10 said:Rista thinks you're confusing honor with straight-up fanaticism.

Honor isn't fanaticism.

It’s more like a fundamental trait—for certain people, it's that core pillar you have to water constantly just to stay upright.
There isn't a shred of fanaticism in true honor, believe me, I've seen enough to know.

I know plenty of people who would sell their own souls for a handful of pocket change.

Then I know people who would actually die just because they felt their honor had been compromised. 😢

I used to think I didn't get them, but honestly? I'm cut from the exact same cloth.