How drug abuse rewires the brain and messes with your motivation systems

redhawk76 said:But—are you actually convinced that your "information" helps those countless people who aren't exactly rock solid? You know, the ones who have every chance of buckling somewhere along that journey and "losing control" because they're young, immature, or just emotionally weak... does your data actually help them, or is it just encouraging them to engage in what might seem like "consequence-free" drug use?

Yes, I am absolutely certain that information helps everyone, especially when you move past that somewhat paternalistic and sweeping generalization you're leaning on. My stance is backed up by the policies of various governments that have seen a drop in new addiction rates thanks to no-bullshit information campaigns, smarter drug differentiation, and harm reduction strategies for existing users.

I think everyone needs to grasp that, at the end of the day, the decision to use drugs rests solely with the individual standing there facing the choice and the supply. That person can only make a rational decision if they have accurate information that they can actually trust.

But look, if that person hears moralizing garbage like "all drugs are evil," tries some marijuana, realizes it’s not the apocalypse, and concludes it can be used recreationally, they lose all faith in the messengers and everything else they say. Once that happens, they have zero reason to believe that heroin is as terrifying as it's portrayed; after all, if they were lied to about marijuana, what’s stopping them from lying about heroin? That’s the entire crux of the matter: dishonest, moralizing, unscientific, and purely propagandistic messaging destroys credibility and ultimately misses the mark entirely.

The fact that the US every single year without exception sees a constant war of newly registered addicts speaks volumes.

wanderingmaker8 said:I suspect everyone needs to realize that the ultimate decision of whether or not to use drugs rests entirely with the individual standing there, faced with both the choice and the availability. They will only reach a sound conclusion if they possess accurate information that they can actually trust...

What pure demagoguery. This is especially glaring when you consider that these supposedly "smart, mature, and responsible" decisions are being forced upon fourteen, fifteen, or sixteen-year-olds standing at the entrance of a nightclub or already high at some house party...
While I might agree that American drug policy is fundamentally flawed and ineffective, our reasoning for why that is remains quite different.
Furthermore, I maintain that whether someone descends into addiction isn't merely a matter of being sufficiently informed about "intelligent" consumption; rather, it is primarily dictated by an individual's personality structure and their level of maturity. It goes without saying that we shouldn't dispute the lack of maturity in children to whom drugs are currently so readily accessible. That is almost certainly a major driver behind the sharp rise in addiction rates: drugs are reaching a younger, much more immature demographic today—kids who, unfortunately, rack up years of addiction before they even possess the basic maturity required to make a rational decision.

Might as well throw my two cents in here too... I only actually signed up for this thread because I can't stand the constant bullshit. Fuck, honestly, almost all the info out there regarding drugs is just built on pure ignorance, propaganda, and straight-up myths, it's enough to make me sick... though thank god there are a few people in here who actually know what they're talking about.

Michelle Cook83 said:Ecstasy, LSD, DMT, PCP... just a whole damn list of ways to lose your mind...🤣

Anyone telling you that LSD or DMT messes with your brain is either straight-up clueless or just lying to your face... The only real danger with psychedelics is triggering a mental health issue if you're already genetically predisposed to it—which happens to a tiny, tiny fraction of people—or maybe some PTSD from a horrific trip, though that's pretty much avoidable if you actually prepare properly. Those "flashbacks" usually aren't even permanent, either. Honestly, this stuff almost never happens to anyone; I saw on Erowid that the odds of running into those issues are like 2 in 2,000...

There aren't any other physical dangers, period. Just deal with it... Your brain isn't going to bleed or develop holes in it. Go read some books or just scour the internet—hit up Erowid, MAPS, or Wikipedia... the biggest actual risk is just fucking things up for yourself while you're high (but that’s what trip sitters are for), though those "I can fly" suicide attempts are incredibly rare. The only thing I ever heard about was some guy in Ireland who jumped out a window on mushrooms back in 2004, which ended up fueling the prohibition movement over there...

MDMA has... some... Basically, you’re looking at the serotonin crash—that massive deficit that leaves you feeling like absolute shit with a brutal hangover and deep depression the next day... plus that whole "oxidizing" thing where your brain cells basically get fried because dopamine breakdown goes haywire once your serotonin levels bottom out and leave those receptors with nothing else to grab onto... But honestly, you can pretty much dodge or totally kill that misery by loading up on Vitamin C, a B-complex, 5HTP, and magnesium... you can pick all that stuff up anywhere, and it'll smooth out that nasty comedown perfectly...
Honestly, all that talk about Ecstasy absolutely nuking your brain is such a massive exaggeration... you'll see exactly what I mean if you just watch the movie in the link below...

The real killers here are dehydration, heatstroke, mixing it with booze, and that psychological hook you get from ecstasy... which isn't even really a thing with LSD or DMT (did I already mention that none of these stuff actually cause physical addiction?)...
Look, I’m not out here trying to push Ecstasy on anyone—honestly, I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten-foot pole... but hey, facts are facts.
Anyway, it’ll probably hit medical use soon... MAPS is already testing it to treat PTSD...

Yeah, I'm with you on the PCP... it's absolutely brutal...

wanderingmaker8 said:It’s total bullshit that E destroys your brainpower...

The BBC recently aired this show...The e generation AT 40...So, they interviewed some of the original long-term E-a users and experts who basically tore through all those stupid myths surrounding ecstasy... Honestly, that whole massive panic over E-a back in the 90s was just your typical, classic reaction to something people didn't understand yet...

Sadly, the drug debate here in the States is still dominated by pure prejudice instead of actual science... since having an honest conversation about drugs is such a massive taboo, the American public will probably be waiting another century before they're ready to actually listen to a show like this.

Link to the show (22MB, requires a free account on the SendIt service)

Check this out—there's a killer documentary on Ecstasy here, which also shows just how far certain people will go to spin total bullshit to manipulate the masses.

vividmaker532 said:It’s honestly hilarious that in this country, the two most dangerous (in terms of consequences) and most pointless (in terms of effects) substances are nicotine and alcohol. And of course, those two are perfectly legal, while some psychedelics are branded as the most dangerous and heavy drugs, even though their physical harm has never actually been proven... Take LSD, for example; it works in such tiny doses—we're talking micrograms—that it literally can't be toxic or harmful to the body, because there isn't a single substance known to science that is toxic at such a minuscule dose...
I could sit here and try to debunk endless drug myths, but the truth is that most people (at least in our nation) have had their brains washed so thoroughly by the government and sheer ignorance that they aren't even interested in learning the truth... It's pathetic...

ps. Just to be clear, I'm not justifying drug use or saying everything is fine. I'm talking specifically about hallucinogenic psychedelics (psilocybin, mescaline, LSD, LSA, salvinorin A...) whose physical harm is absolutely zero compared to alcohol and nicotine.
And one more thing—when it comes to potential psychological damage from hallucinogens (bad trips, paranoia, etc.), that's entirely on the individual for being unprepared. Hallucinogens aren't toys; they are powerful tools for exploring consciousness that require several days of mental prep if you want the experience to actually be useful (if anyone cares, Google -> set & setting)

🙏 🙏 Thank god someone finally knows what they're talking about. You've given me way too much to read here... 😘

wanderingmaker8 said:@briskranger2: I know it exists, it just hasn't hit the club scene yet...

Heh, I never understood why anyone would go to a party to dance and move, only to knock themselves out with anesthetics, or worse, end up pinned to the floor because they took too much...

Anonymous said:Taking massive hits of ketamine will absolutely wreck you... we're talking hallucinations, deep depression, total memory loss, losing control of your body, delirium, and even respiratory failure that can actually kill you. It’s all over the club scene and rave circuits, and honestly, it's terrifying how often it gets used as a date rape drug too...

Depression? You mean like, actually feeling depressed, or that "depression" where the drugs just absolutely wreck your body's chemistry...
Stopping breathing? That only happens if you go absolutely overboard... Nobody stops breathing from a standard dose of ketamine. As for that assault, you can blame briskranger2 (who I also totally agree with)... 👍 Just so we're clear... like I've said before, that stuff is straight-up lethal... the recreational dose is way too close to a fatal one for my liking...

wanderingmaker8 said:People describe that sensation of dropping into a K-hole like they're completely detached from their own bodies, just totally lost in space and time, hovering right on that razor-thin edge between being conscious and blacking out... some people think it’s the ultimate high, while others get so terrified they swear off Ketamine forever...

Yeah... So, basically, Ketamine is a "dissociative"—if that’s even the right word for it—meaning it just rips your mind away from your body. You can get a similar vibe with massive doses of LSD or tryptamines when you hit that ego death stage, but with Ketamine, that separation is the whole damn point. A K-hole is just what happens when that feeling hits full throttle because you took way too much... total disconnection...

By the way, Ket isn't even a "real" psychedelic... it’s more like a dissociative that just happens to have some psychedelic properties thrown in there. Real psychedelics are stuff like LSD, LSA, Psilocybin, Mescaline, DMT, and all those other tryptamines—plus you've got Salvinorin A, which is its own beast entirely, a totally different breed of psychedelic altogether...
It’s a whole different story when people start using "psychedelics" as a catch-all term for everything from Ketamine and PCP to Muscimol, MDMA, DXM, and all those 2-CT-7 variants... even high doses of weed if you swallow it...

Unlike "real" psychedelics, ketamine builds up a massive psychological addiction, plus frequent use basically just fries your brain...

vividmaker532 said:Fuck, you're bringing all this synthetic chemistry into it, when native Americans have been using mescaline from cacti and psilocybin from mushrooms for thousands of years just for the hell of it... 😁

Word. 👍 LSD is pretty much the only decent "chemical" out there if you ask me... more like a "semi-chemical" since it’s just a slightly tweaked version of LSA, which is totally natural.

redhawk76 said:What kind of ethics are you people even operating on with these posts... honestly, if my friend read them, he’d have some choice words to say, especially after spending years living through a hell created by his own son—a kid who refused to ever admit he had an addiction and insisted he was just doing "smart" drug use. And now, he's stuck in an even deeper hell, going on four years now, ever since that "genius" overdosed...

Man, please tell me... you think he actually kicked it from some mushrooms? Or maybe an LSD trip gone wrong? Could've been cactus, DMT... who even knows at this point...
Or maybe it’s just heroin, cocaine, or meth? Look, please just realize that if someone crashes a car because of a manufacturing defect, you don't ban every single vehicle on the road—you just pull that specific model... And if some idiot tries to climb a mountain without any gear or experience and ends up falling to their death, are you really going to go around blaming the damn mountain?
I haven't seen anyone on this forum pushing that addictive garbage that just fries your brain... Honestly, I haven't seen a single person here promoting any of that shit. This place is about trading info so maybe someone actually learns something, so if they eventually decide to go down that road, they pick something that isn't a total death trap—something that actually opens your mind and lets you find yourself instead of just clouding your head, making you stupid, and leaving you stuck in a massive depression the next day...

Maybe all this info is here because being informed is just plain safer than being clueless. Or maybe it’s here to help closed-minded types like you—people who can't see past their own damn noses—actually learn something for once... to start questioning the garbage society and the media shove down your throat and finally use that brain God gave you. One day, when you actually put in the work to research every possible angle before forming an opinion, maybe you'll finally see things for what they really are...

You really want to know what drug prohibition—the kind pushed by people like you—has actually done for the world? Fine, let me break it down for you... it’s just fueled higher usage year after year by making everything feel like "forbidden fruit," creating a massive backfire effect. It’s birthed the most powerful criminal syndicates on the planet, lumped all substances into one messy category, and put kids at risk because they can't tell the difference between mushrooms and speed... and guess which one is easier to find? Since everything is illegal, there's zero quality control, so these profit-driven dealers just lace everything with whatever trash helps them skim more money, leaving people hooked on stuff way more toxic than what they actually paid for. Plus, it’s filled our prisons with non-violent "criminals" who were just following that same primal curiosity that's driven every single great human achievement in history... pure, raw wonder...

And yet, cigarettes and booze are perfectly legal, mostly because they rake in massive amounts of cash... It’s wild when you realize more people die every year from smoking than from any other drug on the planet. Nicotine itself is lethal at just around 50mg/kg, which actually makes it more toxic than arsenic... For perspective, the LD50 of cocaine is 1000mg/kg...
Alcohol has absolutely wrecked more families and taken more lives than all the illegal drugs combined... It just rips through your entire system and slowly but surely leaves you permanently broken. But hey, they’re legal just because people have been drinking it "forever" and it brings in massive tax revenue...

And get this... you probably don't even realize that those allergy pills and cough syrups sitting in your medicine cabinet are psychoactive too, and honestly, they're way more dangerous than any psychedelic out there... You even have drugs sitting right there in your kitchen pantry that you could pick up at a Walmart for... $2.25You can hallucinate your brains out and literally die if you take too much, yet there isn't a single word about that on the packaging... and honestly, are you even aware that kids might be walking past those beautiful white flowers and black berries every single day on their way to school... It's fucking insane how some of the most dangerous stuff out there is totally legal and just grows like weeds all over our cities and suburbs. Is the law actually here to protect us? Because if it is, why are LSD and Psilocybin illegal when they’re practically harmless and have massive medical potential for treating THIS? What exactly is so terrifying about Psilocybin, what's the big danger here:

In 2006, a group of researchers from Johns Hopkins School of Medicine led by Roland R Griffiths conducted an experiment assessing the degree of mystical experience and attitudinal effects of the psilocybin experience; this report was published in the journal Psychopharmacology. Thirty-six volunteers without prior experience with hallucinogens were given psilocybin and methylphenidate (Ritalin) in separate sessions, the methylphenidate sessions serving as a control and active placebo; the tests were double-blind, with neither the subject nor the administrator knowing which drug was being administered. The degree of mystical experience was measured using a questionnaire on mystical experience developed by Ralph W Hood; 61% of subjects reported a "complete mystical experience" after their psilocybin session, while only 13% reported such an outcome after their experience with methylphenidate. Two months after taking psilocybin, 79% of the participants reported moderately to greatly increased life satisfaction and sense of well-being. About 36% of participants also had a strong to extreme “experience of fear” or dysphoria (eg, a “bad trip”) at some point during the psilocybin session (which was not reported by any subject during the methylphenidate session), with about one-third of these (13% of the total) reporting that this dysphoria dominated the entire session. These negative effects were reported to be easily managed by the researchers and did not have a lasting negative effect on the subject’s sense of well-being.

Does that sound like a drug that ruins lives to you? Does that even sound like a drug?
And think about it—if the law is supposed to keep us safe, why is that stuff illegal while Datura is just growing wild in the neighborhood? What happens when some kid hears they can get high on Datura? "Oh, it's not illegal, so it must be safe!" Datura is a Deliriant and a literal poison; people die from overdosing on it every single year. The law is fucking useless, honestly... Nobody has ever died from an overdose of THC or LSD—you'd need like 100,000 times a normal dose to kick the bucket—nor from mushrooms, where you'd basically have to eat as much as you weigh to overdose on Psilocybin. And before you bring up indirect deaths, just look at alcohol.

Natural psychedelics are a gift; they've been used all over the world throughout history, for thousands of years, as a way to connect with everything, a tool for self-discovery, a path to wisdom, enlightenment, and just getting a more open perspective on life. Anyone who thinks they can ban self-exploration, mind-opening, and NATURE—part of the planet we're all part of—without any actual valid arguments, can go fuck themselves. People think the more you hallucinate, the more your brain dies. Hey! HEY!? You think dreaming isn't a hallucination? Does sleeping destroy your brain? And what about the connection between DMT, which is naturally present in the brain, dreams, and those indescribable things people experience under its influence?

The key is information, plus freedom of thought and choice. Because lying to people about these substances to stop them from using them backfires completely; once people realize they've been lied to the whole time, they're just gonna be like, "Oh, so none of that was true, let's go get high." But the real question is... what are they going to get high on?....
On the flip side, if you actually give people the real facts, they can make their own damn choices instead of having the government decide for them. Because banning self-discovery and opening your mind is basically just banning thought itself...

Don't forget that most doctors are essentially just salesmen first and healers second. You really think the massive profits from drugs that aren't nearly as effective as certain banned substances don't line someone's pockets? And you honestly believe psychiatrists love the idea of "self-treatment"? Do you really swallow everything "society" and the mainstream media feed you? Think again.

The sheer fact that in the US you can catch a heavier sentence for mushrooms than for cocaine is fucking disgusting.

The day they start distinguishing "good" drugs from "bad" ones is the day I might actually believe the people in power have any clue what they're doing. But once they ban Sage, I'm losing that hope forever. Honestly, you can probably guess which one is coming first...

Kyle Ross56 said:That day when they decide which drugs are "good" and which ones are "bad"...

Diversifying how we approach different substances is absolutely vital. You can't just lump all psychostimulants into one bucket and treat them identically, because that kind of blanket approach is exactly what fuels addiction growth.

I’d also add that we need to start raising awareness about the massive distinction between abuse and use. In America, any instance of using an illegal drug is automatically labeled as abuse, which isn't just total nonsense—it's a complete contradiction to how we view legal substances like alcohol or nicotine, where we actually acknowledge that difference.

Granted, more stories are leaking into the mainstream about successful, productive members of society who use drugs recreationally (without abusing them), so there's this shy, tentative effort to break down the prejudices that the media and the government have brainwashed into the public during their endless war on drugs. But don't be fooled; we aren't going to stop hearing that idiotic "marijuana leads to heroin" crap or the claim that "everyone who touches drugs ends up as a criminal or a hooker" anytime soon. 🙄

Kyle Ross56, my man 😬massive respect 👍>
- you said everything I couldn't bring myself to write 🙂>
you stripped the mystery away from things most people just don't get

take a seat, kid! 👍>

I'm glad you brought up that hellscape known as datura. It's what those clueless kids end up swallowing when they can't get their hands on actual psychedelics and are desperate to experiment... considering that some tiny, beautiful mushrooms are treated by the law like they're child abusers... the punishment is completely out of proportion. So instead, the whole crowd ends up in the ER with brains fried by scopolamine, atropine, and all those other toxic alkaloids

man, if we could actually explain things to this sheep/goat, this country might actually be a little slice of heaven... but honestly, I think she's just a textbook case of dementia 😢>
http://www.nytimes.com/article/news-story-example-link>

Kyle Ross56🙏

Kyle Ross56 said:Natural psychedelics are essentially a gift—they've been used globally throughout history, spanning thousands of years, as a way to connect with everything, a tool for self-discovery, gaining wisdom, enlightenment, or just a broader perspective on life. Anyone who thinks they can actually ban self-exploration, mind-opening, and nature—which is part of this planet we all belong to—without any legitimate arguments, is probably going to get totally fucked. People seem to think that more hallucinations equals more brain death. Seriously? I mean, what is dreaming if not a hallucination? Does sleeping destroy the brain? And one might wonder about the connection between the DMT naturally present in our brains, dreaming, and those indescribable experiences people have under its influence.

I suppose I should credit you for everything you mentioned 👍

I’d just add one quote that seems somewhat related to your point...

"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
Terrence McKenna (R. I. P.) 🙏

wanderingmaker8 said:I’d also add that we really need to keep an eye on this and start building some actual awareness about the difference between... just some more bullshit abuse... i... Usage...In America, they treat any kind of illegal drug use as "abuse," which is just total bullshit... especially when you consider how hypocritical they are about legal stuff like booze and nicotine, where that distinction actually exists...

I totally get where you're coming from, but this isn't just an issue here in America. Aside from places like Peru and Brazil, and maybe one outlier in the States, any kind of "spiritual" use of psychoactives is legally lumped in with abuse... basically, if it isn't strictly medical, they call it abuse. Cheers to intelligence, I guess...

briskranger2 said:If we could actually explain some things to this total sheep... man, this country would be a goddamn paradise... but honestly, I’m pretty sure she’s just a textbook case of dementia... 😢
Check out this article about how some big bank is tightening the screws on loans again... honestly, just when you think they'll give us a break, they find a new way to squeeze every last cent out of us... typical...

So. What's there left to say? Words are pretty much useless at this point...



So, weed is basically legal in half of Europe now, yet here we are with them tightening the screws like nothing happened... give me a break. The last time they treated marijuana use like it was a straight-up homicide was back in the 60s over in the UK. Looks like she’s just trailing about forty years behind the rest of the civilized world...

vividmaker532 said:If "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" doesn't give you the right to mess around with your own headspace, then the Declaration of Independence is basically just overpriced scrap paper...
Terrence McKenna (R. I. P.) 🙏

Terrence McKenna... 🙏 I constantly find myself scrolling through Google Video just to hunt down his old speeches...

Here's another one... 🤣
Honestly, if the government actually did its job right, they’d basically just work themselves straight into bankruptcy and disappear... wouldn't that be something?
Timothy Leary

Just some car bullshit... 🙏

Kyle Ross56... you have a PM 😉

I’m not entirely sure if this belongs here, so I’ll let the admin move it to the right sub if I’ve missed the mark.

I’m dealing with a 24-year-old guy who, because of how life played out, ended up with nothing more than an elementary school education. He spent a few months in a juvenile detention center, and honestly, he has zero interest in working. He completely shuts down whenever anyone in the house tries to talk to him; every attempt at a conversation just ends with him walking out the door. He basically treats the house like a glorified motel—he shows up in the morning, sleeps, and then leaves again. He doesn't touch anything in the house except his bed. It’s pretty obvious he’s using drugs, though I have no clue what specifically he's on, but he definitely uses Xanax in heavy amounts. To put it bluntly, he’s totally out of control and avoids any kind of human contact at all costs. He isn't aggressive, though.
Since he's an adult now, I’m wondering if there is any legal way to get him to go somewhere for a consultation or therapy, given that he’s almost certainly struggling with addiction.