Request to bring Geomancy back to the Magic and Mysticism thread

I am in total agreement.
(First off, I have to say, I was absolutely floored to see that Geomancy hasn't been reinstated either!)

The Magic and Mysticism section just isn't the same without Geomancy; it’s lost its essence—and I am referring to the positive aspects here, not the lack of discipline from certain questioners that ultimately led us down this path—nor does it reflect what the section could truly become. Geomancy was such a cornerstone of the Magic and Mysticism PDF!

Kenneth Price72 did a wonderful job in his post explaining exactly what Geomancy entails.

It belongs right there alongside tarot; separating them is like splitting up a family. It simply makes no sense, and frankly, there is zero common sense applied here. 🤷

I believe we are all exhausted by these games of one-upmanship, so I won't ramble on too long, but surely this is a matter of elementary logic: why on earth would Geomancy be (or remain) categorized under All Sorts of Things instead of being in Magic and Mysticism? Please, I beg you, do not take advantage of the fact that Kenneth Price72 is such a polite individual—a true gentleman, really—who clearly has no desire to get dragged into petty bickering, arguing, or trying to outsmart everyone else!

Personally, I feel compelled to suggest that Tarot Master Recommendations should also stay within Magic and Mysticism (unless perhaps we should request a brand new topic for that specifically? 🙄), because logically, it fits perfectly there. It’s not as if recommendations for psychiatrists and psychologists were stripped from the Psychology section and tossed into All Sorts of Things or some other corner, nor were hair stylists, estheticians, or dermatologists evicted from the Cosmetics section to be dumped elsewhere... Everything falls into the same logical "box."

Good grief, people—moderators, admins—can we please put an end to this infantile tug-of-war!

Thanks, krezz, for kicking off this discussion... since I feel like I’ve already exhausted my arguments regarding moving this topic to different sections, I really don't want to sound like a broken record, but I do feel compelled to reiterate once more that I believe Geomancy deserves its own dedicated space here on M@M... "all sorts of things" simply isn't the right place for it.

I’m on the same page here. I think René deserves the recognition. He’s the one putting in most of the hours and sharing what he knows just to help everyone else out, so his perspective should carry some weight given how much he contributes to this community. I also have a suggestion, if you're open to it: maybe we could update the rules in the first post to require a minimum post count before someone can ask a question. It might be a good way to weed out the clones. 🤷

Geomancy is a method of divination that maintains indirect links to astrology. Much like other similar practices whose primary objective is strictly predictive in nature, it falls under the category of all sorts of things.

Tarot is far more than just a tool for fortune-telling. While many view it solely through the lens of divination, that is merely one small facet of its potential utility. When you look closer, these cards serve as sophisticated gateways to the astral plane and act as intricate blueprints for constructing occult rituals, thanks to the dense layers of symbolism embedded within individual cards. Furthermore, each card of the Major Arcana can function as a profound instrument for meditation or even psychoanalysis, given the powerful archetypes they manifest. Is it not reductive to limit such a system to mere prediction? Because divination represents only a minor application of what these tools can actually achieve, we have agreed that this subject warrants its own distinct category for discussion.

For much the same reason, I have established a dedicated thread regarding horary astrology within the Astrology subforum.

Ryan Wilson2, just who exactly are you picking a fight with, and what on earth could possibly be the reason?

I have already stated my position regarding other methods of divination, and I cannot be held responsible if you failed to grasp the substance of my argument.

It is patently obvious that your sole intention here is to provoke an argument and resort to insults; I would strongly suggest you find someone in the real world to whom you can vent your frustrations.

I am sorry, but you insulted me with that—it was an entirely unnecessary and excessive reaction on your part (specifically regarding those instructions about "venting your frustrations on someone in real life"—which were crude). I believe it was perfectly obvious that my only intention was to reach an agreement where we could all discuss things together and attempt to create something for the PDF that was highly frequented and eagerly read, rather than dragging this out painfully for days or weeks. Unfortunately, that simply didn't happen.

I stated that it makes logical sense to me that Geomancy, along with Recommendations, falls under magic and mysticism; they should simply go into the same "box," as someone else put it. It's cleaner, more sensible, and so on. I have every right to express that opinion. Kenneth Price72 wrote a very good and quite extensive post on the other thread just the other day regarding geomancy and its history, so if that isn't enough to make it clear how much it belongs under magic and mysticism, then I truly do not know.... 😕 🤷 😕

Now you have claimed that geomancy has indirect ties to astrology—well, why then, if not under magic and mysticism, would it be placed under Astrology? But no, it can't go there either; it must go under All Sorts, because apparently no other place can be found for it within the Alternative category? Strange. Is there really no way to handle Recommendations, such as how recommendations are handled on other PDFs?

But fine. Since those who have spent years bombarding tarot masters, Ren, and others with hundreds of their inquiries are now, quite wisely, remaining silent and presumably waiting for someone else to fight for their interests, I don't see any point in wasting any more of my time on this.

I will no longer participate in this thread, nor any similar one, because I find that there is a palpable, visible preponderance of hatred and disparaging remarks directed toward the forum members who participated in the threads for tarot, Geomancy, Recommendations, and so forth.

Warm regards to everyone who participated in this thread and previous ones!

To be perfectly honest, I haven’t even felt much inclination to post here lately, mostly because everything I say seems to come across as nothing more than a grievance, supported by perhaps two or three forum regulars who just wanted to make their voices heard regarding the relocation of this thread. So, this will be my final word on the matter, offered solely in an attempt to debunk the claim that Geomancy is strictly limited to divination.
In my own estimation and firm belief, Geomancy absolutely belongs in the section titled magic and mysticism.
Everything bahomet mentioned concerning tarot remains valid; however, while Geomancy works with incredibly modest tools—just sixteen figures that look exactly what they are, lacking both the symbolic depth and the lush, illustrative richness found in tarot decks—that does nothing to diminish its inherent value or its potential. During one particular era of its history, these figures were refined into symbols specifically utilized in talismanic magic; furthermore, for my own practice, they have served me in what is known as "scrying," as a focal point for meditation, and even as a gateway to other dimensions. Beyond that, I have experimented with a method that could tentatively be described as manifestation work for achieving specific goals, and I have had quite successful experiences there as well. My results have ranged from modest to profoundly significant, which only serves to prove that while Geomancy might not be an overly elaborate magical system, it is certainly far more than a mere method of divination.
I have no desire to mystify things or attribute qualities to it that it doesn't possess, yet it pains me to see Geomancy stripped of what is rightfully its own. Just as a natal chart in astrology functions as divination, so too does Geomancy. But, taking into account everything I’ve noted above regarding magical practice, it gains entirely different dimensions. The very history of Geomancy is fascinating reading; tracing its supposed origins leads us toward African variants like Ifa and other traditions tied to sub-Saharan Africa. This only reinforces the fact that these methods were integral to the spiritual lives of the peoples and tribes inhabiting those regions. Yes, they functioned primarily as divination, but they were never exclusively that.
And finally, I find the current placement of this topic increasingly irritating—it is just all sorts of things. With all due respect to people and their personal concerns, amidst threads about washing machines vibrating, random pictures, and e-cigarettes, it makes it seem as though Geomancy is something so "miscellaneous" that it’s difficult to even define where it fits. Someone looking for a better battery for their remote control will eventually stumble upon it—which is admittedly one way to discover Geomancy—but it feels like a status that "demeans" the practice, especially since there is a dedicated virtual space on this forum for magic and mysticism, where Geomancy undeniably belongs.

I honestly believed that by bringing magic and mysticism back into the conversation through Tarot, Geomancy would naturally follow suit. I was wrong, though. It’s the same old story: everyone just feels the need to belittle others... everything that needs to be said has already been said...
Reno laid it all out so perfectly, and I am standing right behind him on this one. Unfortunately, from what I can see, both of these subjects have been effectively killed off here...
Look, if my voice—and the voices of those who agree with me—actually carries any weight at all regarding whether Geomancy should return to the realm of magic, or if it could at least find its place alongside Astrology (assuming Horary still has a seat at that table), then I believe Geomancy deserves that spot too.
Please, stop devaluing people's hard work and their genuine intentions. It honestly makes me sick to see how much everything has devolved into this...
That's all I have to say. Best,

I’m adding my voice to the call to bring this topic back to where it belongs.
Geomancy and Tarot are essentially twin souls; I truly hope the other half of that pair finds its way home soon.
Though, honestly, I can't even be sure if there's anything left to restore.
I realize how much of a nightmare this must be for the moderation team to handle.
But let's be real—the people contributing to those threads invested just as much time and energy as the mods did.
The way this was handled feels dismissive, unfair, and frankly, completely undeserved.

So, to all the dedicated hands out there, and to all your cards and charts: a massive 🙂🙂

More drama with the tarot readings. To stop this from getting even more messy, I suggest we all just pack up and move to a different forum. I know Reese was acting pretty sketchy on some random message board back in 2022.

geometry and magic and they belong together in an M&M PDF, and that’s really all there is to say...