Singapore Grand Prix (Miami Grand Prix Circuit) - 09/23/2012

William Bennett53 said:Honestly, what a joke... they didn't even hand out penalties to Ayrton Senna or Felipe Massa, yet they went after Michael Schumacher just for a standard overtake... if that's the case, they should have penalized that poor Indian driver when he ended up hitting the wall too.
As for Mark Webber, I'm not even sure why he got penalized since I missed the overtake through the chicane. It honestly baffles me that they didn't penalize Pastor Maldonado or Lewis Hamilton for their mechanical failures.

Senna vs Massa doesn't count as a penalty because Massa cut the chicane while Senna was just closing the door—if someone had actually hit the wall, there would've been a penalty, but this? Nothing.
Agreed on Schumacher being unfairly penalized, and Webber too.

Move of the season, without a doubt.

Pushing it like that on a street circuit, and then managing to catch a car that’s dancing all over the track... with only a few inches of breathing room left... even the most elite drivers wouldn't dare attempt that. 🙏🙏🙏

William Bennett53 said:Honestly, what a joke... they didn't even hand out penalties to Ayrton Senna or Felipe Massa, yet they went after Michael Schumacher just for a standard overtake... if that's the case, they should have penalized that poor Indian driver when he ended up hitting the wall too.
As for Mark Webber, I'm not even sure why he got penalized since I missed the overtake through the chicane. It honestly baffles me that they didn't penalize Pastor Maldonado or Lewis Hamilton for their mechanical failures.

They penalized Webber because Kamui Kobayashi shoved him right off the track.😁
They completely screwed the pooch again, and they did it badly.🤣

Also, the penalty for Deda is pretty bizarre once again.🤷
Maybe it's just their little way of making sure Deda gets punished, or maybe Bernie is just intentionally getting back at Mercedes.🤷

Amanda Kelly said:There’s one thing that really gets under my skin regarding all this "luck and misfortune" talk whenever a competitor drops out.
It’s a plain fact: when someone ahead of you pulls out due to a breakdown, those behind benefit. They move up, they gain positions, and they pick up more points. The biggest win, obviously, is watching your direct rivals bleed points.

People really ought to grasp—finally, at least—that Formula 1 is a team sport.
If a car breaks down mid-race, that falls squarely on the shoulders of the team. It's their responsibility.
Is Fernando Alonso somehow to blame because Red Bull Racing's alternators are failing, or because McLaren can't seem to tune both of their cars properly for two or three races in a row? Of course not. They're the ones at fault, not him.
And if you want to score points, let alone win a championship, you actually have to finish the race first.

If it hadn't been for that opening lap incident at Spa-Francorchamps, Fernando Alonso would be sitting there today as the absolute record-holder for consecutive races with points. That’s something worth respecting. Deeply. He deserves credit for that, and so does Ferrari as a team. That isn't just pure luck.

Look, Ferrari is solid enough to finish races and the car is pretty reliable—probably the most dependable one on the grid
but, raw speed is a whole different beast entirely
what's the point of constantly grabbing points if you can't actually win? —just look at Kimi

@Amanda Kelly - It was a solid way to wrap up the season. If things had gone sideways, Massa would have been branded an oblivious idiot—just like Pastor Maldonado—for causing a wreck while trying to overtake at the tightest part of the track.

@Amanda Kelly - You've got a point, naturally. Formula 1 is essentially the marriage of man and machine (and for the last few decades, the machine has definitely been calling the shots). Of course, someone gaining a position simply because someone else’s car broke down shouldn't be criticized for it. Perhaps Vettel would have been slower all season if they'd opted for a more conservative alternator (or better cooling for it), and maybe Lewis, if they had swapped his gearbox yesterday, would have ended up under the wheels of Kamui Kobayashi, Senna, or, as per usual, Massa... But that's all just "what-if" scenarios. At the end of the day, the title goes to whoever collects the most points, not whoever had the best pace before a breakdown or a DNF. 🙏

Nathan Jones98 said:Look, Ferrari is solid enough to finish races and the car is pretty reliable—probably the most dependable one on the grid
but, raw speed is a whole different beast entirely
what's the point of constantly grabbing points if you can't actually win? —just look at Kimi

It seems clear that Ferrari and Fernando Alonso have opted for reliability. They've built a car capable of hitting the podium on almost any circuit. It isn't specialized for specific tracks—unlike how Red Bull targets places like Valencia or Singapore—but clearly, this strategy of picking up points everywhere is working.

And it's working so effectively that over the last six or seven races, Fernando Alonso has maintained a steady thirty-point lead over his closest rival.

Jason Campbell70 said:Move of the season, without a doubt.

Pushing it like that on a street circuit, and then managing to catch a car that’s dancing all over the track... with only a few inches of breathing room left... even the most elite drivers wouldn't dare attempt that. 🙏🙏🙏

Felipe Massa 🙏 handled that like a total pro.

David Anderson72, why don't you join us for the championship? 🙏 It’s really not that much of a time sink to put together a ranking once every two weeks in about five minutes... and even if you happen to miss a race, it doesn't matter, the prediction still counts toward your total.

I guess I'm late to the party now, right?🤷 I'll catch the next one.

Jason Campbell70 said:Move of the season, without a doubt.

Pushing it like that on a street circuit, and then managing to catch a car that’s dancing all over the track... with only a few inches of breathing room left... even the most elite drivers wouldn't dare attempt that. 🙏🙏🙏

I don't get why Smedley looks so annoyed—instead of being stoked that Massa is finally racing and pulling in points, he's just shaking his head.

stormybadger8 said:Yeah, honestly, Button is more to blame here.😁
He basically admitted it indirectly. If he hadn't been so cautious, he wouldn't be whining about how it was all Vettel's fault. He wouldn't be hunting for a penalty just to snatch the win if he truly believed he was innocent and Vettel was in the wrong.
That was just sloppy driving on Button's part. It’s obvious the guy in front dictates the pace. He's going to speed up, slow down, or weave left and right under the SC just to get those tires and brakes up to temperature—that's his prerogative.
Besides, this isn't exactly news, so saying it caught him off guard is a stretch.😁

And how can the driver behind not know what the lead car is doing? They don't just start the race wherever the leader feels like it; everyone knows exactly which line the restart happens on and exactly when you're allowed to overtake the guy setting the pace.
Take Fernando Alonso, for example—he knew exactly what was happening, so he had zero issues and didn't have to worry about sudden braking. Everyone else behind him knew it too.😉
I highly doubt you're going to tell me the guys trailing Vettel weren't busy warming up their tires and brakes.😁

So what's your take? Who actually filed the protest? Are you positive it wasn't Button and McLaren doing the suing?

Or do you think it was Alonso 😁 (who watched the whole thing from a safe distance, looking for any chance to knock out another rival)?
Honestly, looking at it now, if that had worked, we might have ended the championship right then and there. 😂

Jason Campbell70 said:Move of the season, without a doubt.

Pushing it like that on a street circuit, and then managing to catch a car that’s dancing all over the track... with only a few inches of breathing room left... even the most elite drivers wouldn't dare attempt that. 🙏🙏🙏

You definitely have a sharper eye for detail than I do.
Was Massa actually completely off the track at that chicane—with all four wheels crossing the white line—or were his right tires still technically on the racing line?
And did cutting that chicane give him the momentum he needed to pull ahead of Ayrton Senna?

Amanda Kelly said:So what's your take? Who actually filed the protest? Are you positive it wasn't Button and McLaren doing the suing?

Or do you think it was Alonso 😁 (who watched the whole thing from a safe distance, looking for any chance to knock out another rival)?
Honestly, looking at it now, if that had worked, we might have ended the championship right then and there. 😂

Well, Button basically protested over the team radio immediately, and then I bet the team followed up.
But before the winner was even announced, and again during his BBC interview, I got the impression he doesn't blame Vettel one bit. He even said something along the lines of Vettel just pushed too hard and his wheels got locked up during braking...

I have a feeling the FIA wanted to nail Vettel, but Button’s perspective ended up leaving them with absolutely zero ground to stand on.
Honestly, I kind of like Button more today than I did before.😁

BTW, Jordan totally tore Witmarsh apart. 😂
When asked if they’d ask Button to step down as Hamilton's No2 for the rest of the season, Witmarsh claimed Button offered it himself—saying he just wanted to do what was right and best for the team.
When pressed with "but did you actually ask him?", Witmarsh just gave some blah-blah about how happy he is that Button is being so responsible and all that.

Then, once he left, Jordan said the guy is completely unprofessional and that’s not how things work—drivers aren't the ones making calls or telling the Team Principal how to run the show.
Basically, he stopped just short of calling him a total amateur who hasn't a clue how to manage a team.😁

Felipe Massa was really cutting those chicanes, which actually gave him an illegal advantage in certain moments.
That habit of clipping the chicanes definitely helped him stay right on Ayrton Senna's tail.

Tyler Bennett5 said:You definitely have a sharper eye for detail than I do.
Was Massa actually completely off the track at that chicane—with all four wheels crossing the white line—or were his right tires still technically on the racing line?
And did cutting that chicane give him the momentum he needed to pull ahead of Ayrton Senna?

They were debating it on BBC and concluded his front right was on the track the whole time... maybe a centimeter or two off, but still inside.
That means he only had three wheels off the track, so there's absolutely no case for a penalty.😉

He made a few comments regarding the announcers. Honestly, just like I told him, this specific lineup is the best one we could realistically hope for, but they actually managed to mess up today by claiming:
- that de la Rosa has over 200 starts
- that the screen incorrectly showed an overtake between Mark Webber and Kamui Kobayashi being checked
- that Fernando Alonso had extended his lead in the standings (which, as I mentioned earlier, was already mocked by Paul Lopez6)

tbf - congrats on the win. 🙏 It was intense. 🙏
Anyway, are you unhappy because you think I'm being too loud, or are you just ignoring my attempt for some other reason? 😁

Tyler Bennett5 said:You definitely have a sharper eye for detail than I do.
Was Massa actually completely off the track at that chicane—with all four wheels crossing the white line—or were his right tires still technically on the racing line?
And did cutting that chicane give him the momentum he needed to pull ahead of Ayrton Senna?

It’s honestly impossible to be certain. We’re talking about millimeters here—the difference between his right tires being completely on the white line or not. And even then, does the rule look at the inner or outer edge of that line? I couldn't tell you. My gut feeling is they look at the outer edge, and if that's the case, Massa had two wheels "on the track."
But whether he gained an advantage or not, it's...

William Bennett53 said:He made a few comments regarding the announcers. Honestly, just like I told him, this specific lineup is the best one we could realistically hope for, but they actually managed to mess up today by claiming:
- that de la Rosa has over 200 starts
- that the screen incorrectly showed an overtake between Mark Webber and Kamui Kobayashi being checked
- that Fernando Alonso had extended his lead in the standings (which, as I mentioned earlier, was already mocked by Paul Lopez6)

tbf - congrats on the win. 🙏 It was intense. 🙏
Anyway, are you unhappy because you think I'm being too loud, or are you just ignoring my attempt for some other reason? 😁

Nah, doesn't feel quite right to me. I'd have preferred her to win without Hamilton pulling out.
Still, thank God, at least she might actually change her helmet now🤣 it would be painful watching another race like that🤣

Tyler Bennett5 said:You definitely have a sharper eye for detail than I do.
Was Massa actually completely off the track at that chicane—with all four wheels crossing the white line—or were his right tires still technically on the racing line?
And did cutting that chicane give him the momentum he needed to pull ahead of Ayrton Senna?

First, let's look at the incident in question:




Next, let's check the regulations:

FIA 2012 F1 2012 Sporting Regulations states:
......

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the
track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the
track.

.....

Take a close look at the onboard footage from Massine's car, specifically the position of the front right tire relative to the line marking the left edge of the track. At no point does that front right tire go outside (to the left of) that line. And according to the rule mentioned above, that is more than enough to constitute a "correct cornering."

mistybear87 said:It’s honestly impossible to be certain. We’re talking about millimeters here—the difference between his right tires being completely on the white line or not. And even then, does the rule look at the inner or outer edge of that line? I couldn't tell you. My gut feeling is they look at the outer edge, and if that's the case, Massa had two wheels "on the track."
But whether he gained an advantage or not, it's...

I covered all of this in my previous post. 🙂