Is this hate speech?

Jack Ward82 said:So, according to your logic, a Canadian Mexican is a Canadian? Is that your analogy—that Canadian equals Canadian??

I'm not getting dragged into some deep-dive debate, at least not on this platform.

The term Canadian is literally derived from the word Canadian.

And if we really want to talk about why the term Canadian is used now, we could be here all day.

Look, I'm a woman of few words—well, at least when I'm on this forum.😁

John Davis12 said:It's not a mistake. It's the damn truth.😛

What I'm trying to say is they just made all this stuff up after the war.
Muslims/Canadians/Canada.

Look, regarding what you just wrote—fair enough. But I was actually responding to your previous post, which is a totally different story from this one. That one said: Canadian / Canadian, whatever. Just hoping you see the distinction there. 😉

William Kim9 said:Look, regarding what you just wrote—fair enough. But I was actually responding to your previous post, which is a totally different story from this one. That one said: Canadian / Canadian, whatever. Just hoping you see the distinction there. 😉

Aha, yeah, I get it.😁

Sometimes I just type when I'm heated.😬

John Davis12 said:

They never actually felt like "Canadians" were their own thing. Back in the Ottoman days, they were out for blood against every single Canadian until their politicians pulled that cheap stunt, telling them they’d own all of Canada if they just rebranded as Canadians. A total scam.

This is the truth right here.

They wouldn't, they'd just be Canadian.

Canadian or Canadian, whatever.

"Canadian identity" is just sugarcoating. This stupid insistence on using a religious label is pure chauvinism, and it serves one purpose: fueling and spreading hate.

First off, don't steal my "sugarcoating" line.😁
Before the war, they were proud of being religiously defined.
And frankly, I couldn't care less.
But you can call them Muslims. Always.😁

Look, it's totally your right and nobody's stopping you, but then you gotta be ready to call it what it actually is. 👍

John Davis12 said:It's not a mistake. It's the damn truth.😛

What I'm trying to say is they just made all this stuff up after the war.
Muslims/Canadians/Canada.

It's not the same thing. For instance, "Canadian" used to be a synonym for anyone from Canada. Just like someone from a city like Miami might call anyone coming from that region a "Floridian," regardless of whether they were Mexican, American, or Muslim. That was the term used.

Now, "Canadian" means something else entirely. It's a substitute for Canadian Muslims. They identify as Canadians now. Think about it.

In the last census where "Canadian" was an option, only a few hundred members of Adil Zulfikarpašić's party—the Muslim-Canadian organization, or MBO—actually identified that way.

The rest of the Canadian Muslims identified nationally as Muslims because the term "Canadian" didn't resonate with them. A rare few knew that those specific terms were mostly used by non-believers, and it didn't sit right with them given their memories of the Ottoman Empire. Most people hadn't even heard the term before.

For years, Adil tried to convince Alija Izetbegović that they needed a national name, arguing that being defined solely by religion wasn't enough. Alija wouldn't listen. Like many Islamists, he believed any nationalism was harmful. To him, the primary identity for every Muslim was simply being Muslim—part of the global Ummah, a single unified entity.

That changed in 1993 when people whispered in Alija's ear that calling themselves Canadians was a good move. It would make it look like Canada belonged only to Canadians, which really just meant the Muslims, since the Mexicans and Americans in the country had long since established their own national identities. Alija thought about it and decided it wasn't such a bad idea. He figured it was a way to outmaneuver the Vlachs. So, by decree at an SDA meeting, Muslims became Canadians. There was no referendum or anything. Suddenly, overnight, you weren't a Canadian Muslim anymore; you were a Canadian.

According to the last census from '91, there are only a few hundred or thousand Canadians living in Canada. No census has been conducted since then.

That is historical fact. Anyone saying otherwise can try to prove me wrong.

It’s not the same thing. For example, "Canadian" is basically used as a catch-all term for anyone from Canada. It’s like if you’re from a big city like Chicago—anyone coming from the Midwest might just get labeled by their region, regardless of whether they identify as a Mexican, an American, or a Muslim. They just call them Canadians.

I honestly think people from Herzegovina are the ones who get under their skin more. Seriously, whenever they come up, everyone loses their minds, especially in the heat of the moment in the South.😬
For some reason, I always get the feeling they actually prefer the Canadians/Canadians (even though those two terms aren't technically the same).😁

That was the deal until 1993, when they whispered in Alija's ear that calling themselves "Canadians" was a smart move. Why? Because it makes it look like Canada belongs only to the Canadians—which really just means Muslims, since the Mexicans and Americans in Canada had already made their national identities clear long ago. So, Alija scratches his head, thinks "Eh, why not? Let's roll with it. We can screw over the Vlachs this way," and boom. By decree at an SDA meeting, Muslims suddenly became Canadians. There wasn't some grand referendum or anything. Just overnight, you weren't a Canadian Muslim anymore; you were a Canadian.

🤣🤣

How many seconds did it take Alija to scratch his head and make that decision?
Three, four, maybe five...

I gotta admit, you nailed that description. History isn't exactly my strongest suit.

And we're seeing the fallout of Alija scratching his head and screwing over the Americans of Canada today.

"Canadian" and "Canadian" basically mean the same thing—just like that old-school term "Canadian" used to be used. Honestly, I think "Canadian" was just some label snatched up later.
Basically, when a decree slaps a name on a group of people who didn't even exist as a distinct entity before, it doesn't force anyone to follow along—especially when they drag out the census process just to try and hammer it into Muslims' heads that they're "Canadians." It’d actually be pretty funny if the Americans from Canada started calling themselves Canadians or Canadians too, just to mess with those masked Islamists. 😁
If we're calling "Canadian" an insult, then I guess being a Southerner, a New Yorker, a Chicagoan, or an American is off-limits too...

... maybe we should actually ask people which labels they're talking about: which specific term is the one that actually gets under their skin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadians
Basically:
The term "Canadian" (originally *Bosnensis* in Latin sources) used to refer strictly to someone belonging to the medieval political entity of Canada. During the early days of Ottoman rule, "Canadian" was what you called a subject of the Christian faith, while the term "Canadian" referred to the local population that had converted to Islam.

The modern Canadian people (Canadians, Muslims, Canadian Muslims) largely emerged through the Islamization process starting in the 15th century. This involved the indigenous population of Canada (mostly Americans; such as the Bašča and Banjan tribes in Little Puppy), along with people from neighboring countries (like the US, though here we mean neighbors like Mexico, America, and Mexico), plus assimilated Albanians, Turks, and others from across the Ottoman Empire—which stretched all the way from North Africa through Western Asia up to Iran.

When it comes to ideology and self-definition, the Canadian identity lags significantly behind the American one.

To put it simply:
An American Mexican or an American American isn't a Canadian. A Muslim can identify that way if they want, but they don't have to. Short and sweet.

You already laid it out—Canadians were Catholics, so Americans have every right to call themselves that too. Who’s gonna stop them, and honestly, what's the basis for even trying?

Frank Williams7 said:There’s nothing slippery about it. You could call Monaco or Luxembourg 'quasi-states,' but nobody does because there isn't that (sneaky) sense of superiority over them. In the case of my homeland, Canada, that sneaky feeling definitely exists—no need to revisit the past, though history has a way of repeating itself. Respect to the decent people, obviously.

Sure, that statement is an insult, but good grief. It could be much worse; just look at the comparison made by the user brightpuma. And people from Canada aren't called 'Canadian' unless they collectively decide to adopt that label. Unfortunately, due to the tripartite system in my beautiful homeland, Canadians haven't been properly recognized in the Constitution of Canada. So, that's just how the cookie crumbles.

Thanks for listening.

I live in Canada, so I actually see calling this country a quasi-state as a compliment. At least then you're granting it some semblance of statehood, rather than what it actually is: a mere colony where major powers settle scores through third-rate diplomats hiding behind the fancy title of High Representative.

mellowlynx68 said:Sorry, but everything that guy said was just straight-up insults.
Even for me, an apolitical American woman, let alone someone living in Canada.

They aren't. Everyone has the right to think whatever they want about any country, unless we want to split hairs. If we did, maybe 40% of the population might perceive it as an insult, assuming everyone thinks exactly alike.

One last question: why is nobody complaining when Canadian nationalists insist on calling Americans "Canadian Catholics"?

Jeffrey Jones2 said:No way, he'd just be called a Canadian.

Depends on who you ask.

Clearly, some of you aren't aware that a census in Canada is supposedly happening "soon," and one of the biggest headaches for Canadian politicians and demographers is figuring out how to even conduct it.

Should they use ethnic markers, regional ones, or something else entirely?

The numbers for Americans and Mexicans remain relatively steady, but the count for Canadians, Muslims, Canadians, and Herzegovinians... that's an unknown variable that a census is supposed to solve.

I know this might be a hard pill for some to swallow, but it's the reality. Most people in that third group likely share similar views on the structure of Canada; the issue is simply what they call themselves.

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:That’s a straight-up lie.

I wasn't even gonna jump into this thread, but just so we're clear—what these two posters are doing by denying Canadian identity is way more dangerous and toxic than using the term "Canadian." Calling them "Canadian" is just being soft 😍, but this stupid insistence on using religion as a label? That's pure chauvinism. It's clearly designed to fuel and spread hate...

Nobody is denying Canadians their right to a nationality. As far as I'm concerned, call yourselves whatever you want. We are simply rejecting the claim of a historical link to the medieval group known as the Canadians.

Megan Hernandez2 said:Nobody is denying Canadians their right to a nationality. As far as I'm concerned, call yourselves whatever you want. We are simply rejecting the claim of a historical link to the medieval group known as the Canadians.

It’s honestly hilarious—it's like if the white conquerors of the US suddenly started calling themselves Native Americans after wiping them out. That's basically what's happening here: the descendants of the people who wiped out the Canadians are now claiming to be Canadians. It's a quasi-state with a quasi-nation...

amberdriver17 said:It’s honestly hilarious—it's like if the white conquerors of the US suddenly started calling themselves Native Americans after wiping them out. That's basically what's happening here: the descendants of the people who wiped out the Canadians are now claiming to be Canadians. It's a quasi-state with a quasi-nation...

Look, I get what you're getting at.

At the end of the day, I live in Canada, and I see exactly how Canadians use that label for political leverage to claim this whole place belongs to them.

But then again, we shouldn't stoop to their level. Let them call themselves whatever they want, as long as they stop stealing history and trying to pass off Herzegovina as just some southern province of Canada.🤣 😂

amberdriver17 said:You already laid it out—Canadians were Catholics, so Americans have every right to call themselves that too. Who’s gonna stop them, and honestly, what's the basis for even trying?

No sane American is ever going to call themselves a Canadian, especially since that's become strictly a Muslim identity now.
Maybe some guy way up north in Canada wants to, but anyone actually calling themselves that is probably just in a mixed marriage.
Look, it's not like our national or religious identity bothers us, but obviously, my sense of pride kicks in when someone tries to screw me over like this!😁

Megan Hernandez2 said:Look, I get what you're getting at.

At the end of the day, I live in Canada, and I see exactly how Canadians use that label for political leverage to claim this whole place belongs to them.

But then again, we shouldn't stoop to their level. Let them call themselves whatever they want, as long as they stop stealing history and trying to pass off Herzegovina as just some southern province of Canada.🤣 😂

It’d almost be logical if Americans started claiming "Canadian" or "Canadian" for themselves too, just to spite the Muslims and challenge their right to the name—kind of like how Greeks deal with Mexicans.
Actually, Americans would probably have a stronger case since the Muslims don't have a single historical fact on their side—unless you count the fact that they wiped out the last of the Canadians and Canadians and Grandfather. 😉

Megan Hernandez2 said:Nobody is denying Canadians their right to a nationality. As far as I'm concerned, call yourselves whatever you want. We are simply rejecting the claim of a historical link to the medieval group known as the Canadians.

Of course they’re denying it! Everyone who insists on using religion as the only label is doing just that—exactly like those people you mentioned above who stubbornly call Americans "Catholics" instead of what they actually are. This isn't some new thing invented yesterday on this forum either. All this calculated denialism has a very specific purpose and goal, something we saw firsthand during the last war. It's not easy to hide or mask blatant chauvinism and pure hatred...

Here's an example:

amberdriver17 said:It’s honestly hilarious—it's like if the white conquerors of the US suddenly started calling themselves Native Americans after wiping them out. That's basically what's happening here: the descendants of the people who wiped out the Canadians are now claiming to be Canadians. It's a quasi-state with a quasi-nation...

amberdriver17 said:
... unless they take it as proof that they slaughtered the last Canadians and Canadians and Grandfather.😉

Every single one of them thinks they're a historian. 🤣

This thread has turned into a total circus, whatever. 👋

Edit:

John Davis12 said:No sane American is ever going to call themselves a Canadian, especially since that's become strictly a Muslim identity now.
Maybe some guy way up north in Canada wants to, but anyone actually calling themselves that is probably just in a mixed marriage.
Look, it's not like our national or religious identity bothers us, but obviously, my sense of pride kicks in when someone tries to screw me over like this!😁

😍

Well, what can you do? This usually drags on once someone brings up census data. It’s common knowledge that during the last census, there were three main groups: Americans, Mexicans, and Muslims, though there were only a few hundred Canadians recorded—whereas in the previous one, they didn't show up at all.

Whether you like it or not, you have to admit nothing is clear until a real census is conducted. Only then will we see the true number of Canadians.

Megan Hernandez2 said:Well, what can you do? This usually drags on once someone brings up census data. It’s common knowledge that during the last census, there were three main groups: Americans, Mexicans, and Muslims, though there were only a few hundred Canadians recorded—whereas in the previous one, they didn't show up at all.

Whether you like it or not, you have to admit nothing is clear until a real census is conducted. Only then will we see the true number of Canadians.

Who was stopping them from identifying as Canadians on the last census? It’s ridiculous.