Moderating Skywalker on Tourism

I’m asking if someone can keep an eye on how the moderator Mark Harris66 is handling the Tourism PDF.
Last night or early this morning, she wiped out several posts regarding Budapest—specifically posts by Elizabeth... and then Xavier started reading way too much into them, claiming they were being political when they weren't. It feels like she's playing politics herself by twisting the meaning of posts just because she doesn't "like" them for some reason.

Could you please drop the links to those threads and, if you happen to know, maybe even the approximate page number where those posts were deleted? If she didn't actually end up deleting the posts you're talking about, then just send over the links to them instead.

I left last night's posts up to the "politics" threads.
Douglas Clark2 brought politics into it by mentioning the museum's founders (the Republican Party / Viktor Orbán). What started as a totally harmless, purely touristy question—like, is the House of Terror actually worth visiting?—turned into a conversation about manipulation and controversy. Then another user asked for clarification, which pulled Viktor Orbán right into the mix... I left those responses alone, even though they drifted into Offtopic territory.
It really could have been handled without bringing up the Republican Party or Viktor Orbán/politics at all.
I’ve already mentioned that any debate regarding the political nature of a museum can move over to the Tourism Offtopic thread—you can talk about pretty much anything there.
As for Viktor Orbán and American politics, there's a dedicated "America" thread in the European Union section under Politics.

I think they started scrubbing posts right after this one.

I managed to read the posts before they vanished. Honestly, deleting them was totally unnecessary, just like disqualifying Elizabeth and Xavier, who were actually making sense and being super articulate and respectful with their points.

But I guess it’s not even surprising, since on the Tourism board, politics only comes up when the moderator jumps in and everyone else just nods along with her. Like that’s somehow normal.

The moderator went ahead and scrubbed all the evidence of her subpar moderation. I’m asking the admins to please take a look at those deleted posts and actually evaluate how she’s handling things... Honestly, she keeps dragging politics into everything, inserting herself into what should be a civilized discussion among adults, and she can't even wrap up a thread without deleting posts because her bias was so incredibly obvious to everyone watching. Everything that happened afterward regarding my initial mention of the Republican Party and certain cultural policies has absolutely nothing to do with the core issue; she just brought politics in at the lowest possible level and showed extreme favoritism... She actually thanked (!) one forum member who kept pushing political talking points way more than I did, only to turn around and lash out at me, cutting me off before I could even get a word in. Her poor moderation has caused more mess than she’s even capable of cleaning up...

It would be nice if she offered an apology, really, because the way she kept attacking me was just unprecedented and plain rude—twisting my words and trying to disqualify me in front of the rest of the community for no reason at all. I specifically asked her not to delete anything or continue maliciously misinterpreting what I write, since that feels more like blatant trolling than actual good moderation, but she just wouldn't listen. I can't even give you the specific post number because she already wiped it...

Just to add, she was being incredibly bold by continuing to provoke Xavier by basically challenging her to provide counterarguments to Magor—talk about a total failure in managing political debate... and then to have the nerve to judge her level of involvement in the thread was just plain uncalled for. It honestly rubbed me the wrong way even more; I mean, what kind of moderator looks down on people and calls them out for simply joining a discussion? This isn't even the first time she’s pulled something like this, and frankly, I don't think the admins should be letting moderators act this way. A moderator shouldn't be allowed to bully forum members like that...

I'm asking that the other moderator (aircanada) step up more often in the Tourism subforum, and if my own posts ever need to be moderated, I'd prefer it if he were the one handling it exclusively.

velvetgull9 said:I actually managed to read the posts before they vanished. Honestly, the deletion was totally unnecessary—as were the disqualifications for Elizabeth and Xavier. Both of them presented their views in such a coherent, cultured, and articulate way...

It’s really not surprising, though—on the Tourism board, politics only comes up when the moderator jumps in and everyone else just nods along. As if that’s anything new.

Don't be so quick to judge—on the Tourism board, political talk is strictly limited to the "Offtopic US tourism" thread, which is exactly why that thread exists in the first place. They always move posts over there whenever things get political, or they just wipe them out entirely.

Kate Roberts said:I think they started scrubbing posts right after this one...

Take a closer look—Douglas Clark2 posted right after that...

A few posts from Mark Harris66, Douglas Clark2, and Xavier have been deleted. I can't quite recall exactly where the deletions started. Mark Harris66 will know, so hopefully he can repost what was lost if there's no other way to recover them.

I was pretty shocked when I saw those posts were gone this morning.
NN deleted her own posts too. Maybe she realized she went a bit overboard reacting to their arguments.

I've cleared out some posts because they were getting off-track—and since I'm dealing with some technical glitches right now, I haven't moved them over to the "Offtopic Destination and other topics" thread like I mentioned last night...
I decided to leave Elizabeth's post regarding her critique of the Museum (she was actually sharing an opinion from a Canadian artist) along with her reply to Magor's post—since he cited two sources that don't really fit this specific discussion—so I figured I'd just let both sides of the museum debate stay visible for a bit.
The whole question about the Museum was strictly about Tourism...
Standard procedure here is that if a discussion starts veering into off-topic territory, we either move it over to the offtopic thread so people can keep chatting there, or we just wipe it clean...

Sandra Brown18 said:she was actually just relaying the views of a Canadian artist

I’m telling you once, please stop trying to read between the lines with me. This is just another accusation of plagiarism—malicious, baseless, and frankly exhausting... I don't go around translating people's work, I simply synthesize information gathered from various sources, providing links for anyone who actually cares to dig deeper.

Hey, Supermoderator, are you seeing this? It’s the same old pattern, and honestly, I find it completely unacceptable...

I don't think anyone actually cares if the posts aren't about Tourism in the US 😁

It’s such a bummer they got deleted. I mean, the idea that you can't be an authority on a topic unless you actually live in that country is kind of wild, right? Like, why is someone's opinion automatically valued more than someone who actually visited the place and wrote about it? And honestly, saying someone shouldn't join the discussion just because they don't live there—even when their advice on things like which subway line to take from point A to point B would be totally useless—is just pretty sad, I guess.

Elbereth posted a question—totally harmless, really—about whether it's actually worth checking out the House of Terror Museum...
Douglas Clark2 replied with this:

So, this salty death guy is asking this:...

That's exactly what Douglas Clark2 thinks about it...
I haven't seen any posts from you yet—it looks like you're just getting settled in here. Anyway, if you ever want to dive into some actual discussion, feel free to jump in... looking forward to seeing what you have to say.

She linked that text to show she basically summarized everything and translated it into American for her post...
I took a quick look into the author's background—turns out she’s a Canadian artist. She hasn't actually published any professional work regarding politics, American history, or museum studies... so, I don't really see what makes her an expert when it comes to giving an objective take on a museum. But hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion—so I'll just leave this here...
So, Magor chimed in and wrote this:
I haven't seen that link yet—looks like it didn't come through properly. Send it over again and I'll take a look...
So, Magor laid out some solid facts—stuff you can easily fact-check online—and used them to really clear up the context behind everything...
So, Elizabeth replied to that—and I just left it at that. Her next post was more of the same, where she dropped two links—well, two specific articles. I actually took the time to dig into those articles, checking out the sources and the authors... and honestly? It’s hard to see how those pieces could possibly be more relevant than anything we've posted here, or even more meaningful than the 6,320 reviews on Tripadvisor showing the museum has high ratings and great feedback. But hey, I left the links there anyway...
Check out this link for things to do in Budapest—it’s got some great stuff if you're looking for ideas... definitely worth a look.

I mentioned earlier that I’d move these posts over to the Offtopic section so we could keep the conversation going there. We already drifted into Offtopic territory anyway—and since I couldn't technically migrate the thread myself, I just cleared them out. This sub is strictly for Tourism, and since the Budapest threads have been focused on travel for years, I didn't want to risk the discussion veering off completely into other areas... which it did...😁)

Nobody was cheated here—no one got banned and no posts were deleted arbitrarily. We just cleared out the stuff following that point because it was getting way too off-topic and drifted far from the actual travel side of things... leaving only the last few bits that were strictly about tourism. As for the person asking about the Museum, they already received a detailed answer, so there wasn't much else to add to the thread...

Magor has been posting on threads related to Canada for years—specifically over in the Linguistics subforum when it comes to the Canadian language, or in the Tourism section whenever someone needs travel tips for Canada or Budapest. He even jumps into the History section to help out with discussions on surname origins when they involve Canadian names. Since he’s actually a Canadian native living in Canada, he has much better access to local sources and newspapers than we ever could—not that we'd stand a chance given our lack of Canadian skills... To be specific, he hasn't voiced a single political opinion in any of his posts. Everything he writes is strictly informative—just like the stuff from me and Richard Palmer90—so there’s really no reason to doubt him. All his posts stay perfectly on topic...
Based on what he’s posted on those subforums so far—I actually went back and combed through all his posts again tonight just to be safe—there isn't any sign of a political stance... so I don't really have any reason to think he's biased.
Xavier popped up in the Tourism subforum for the first time yesterday—which is wild, considering she hasn't posted a single thing in the Tourism section or any of those Canadian-related threads over her nine years of moderating... She only dropped a couple of posts that were completely off-topic, too. I really wish she'd stick to the actual topics for once...
There’s a massive difference there.

So, look—nobody was actually harmed here. No one got a strike or anything; we just cleared out the offtopic posts. We kept all of Elizabeth's posts and links intact, and the user actually got their answer about the Museum... If anyone still wants to argue about it, feel free to head over to the Tourism offtopic thread.

Sandra Brown18 said:Xavier showed up for the first time yesterday in the Tourism subforum (in all nine years of moderating, she hasn't left a single post in Tourism or on any "Canadian" topics in other sections) and just dropped a few posts that are completely off-topic. I really wish she had at least contributed something on-topic.
That makes a massive difference...

I’ve been following this discussion, and even though I don't have much to do with Tourism, I feel I have to respond to the idea that someone's participation should be judged by what, when, or where they did or didn't post. Using that as a relevant criterion for involvement is something that affects the entire forum. Honestly, that kind of attitude just isn't in the spirit of this community. Everyone chooses when and what to write; no one is obligated to participate, so you shouldn't hold someone's lack of activity elsewhere against them. Exceptions exist for specific things like classified ads, but those are covered by the rules and aren't what I'm talking about. At the end of the day, everyone has to start somewhere. If we approach people this way, that starting point might just become their exit...

Sandra Brown18 said:I mentioned earlier that these posts should probably move over to the Offtopic section so the discussion could actually continue there. We drifted into Offtopic territory pretty much immediately, and since I didn't have the technical ability to manually migrate the thread to the right sub-forum, I just cleared them out... this is a Tourism sub-forum, after all, and for years the Budapest threads here have stayed strictly about travel, so I was worried the conversation would veer off into completely unrelated waters—which, unsurprisingly, it did.😁

Nobody is being victimized here—nobody got flagged, and nothing was deleted unfairly; I just removed the posts following that point because they were heavy on the Offtopic stuff and had zero connection to the actual travel aspects of the thread, except for maybe the last couple which were purely about sightseeing. Besides, the person asking about the Museum already got a thorough answer, so there wasn't really any reason to keep going there.

It’s funny how conveniently you ignore the fact that you were being totally unfair in the follow-up conversation... acting biased, disqualifying regular users, and honestly, just behaving scandalously for someone in a moderator role. You didn't delete those posts because they were "offtopic," you deleted them because you embarrassed yourself and you knew anyone with a shred of neutrality could see it. Those ad hominem attacks you launched at me and another user—and the way you're still sitting here trying to play judge on who is "credible" and who isn't—is just beneath the dignity of a moderator and it's killing the quality of this forum. What you did last night wasn't moderating. Deciding who is a credible user and who isn't? That’s not the job. Getting inside people's heads to speculate on their intentions, guessing their political leanings, making things up regarding Jews or linguistics, and just generally being smeary and accusatory... none of that is part of the role. If you've got the nerve, go ahead and post links to everything through the end.

We're all being penalized by participating in this sub-forum if we have to sit through this level of rudeness, dishonesty, and the total meltdown of an incompetent moderator.

Charles Thompson18, Douglas Clark2, velvetgull9... if you recall, back when we had those "political issues" in the Tourism section, we used to settle things right here in the chat thread. The last time that happened (which involved the moderator NN too) was because of a debate that got a bit too xenophobic—maybe you remember my posts? It’s possible to resolve these kinds of problems like gentlemen without calling in the super-moderators... (Or maybe it isn't? I guess I think it is.)

For example, something like this...

The sheer number of people who are fed up with how Mark Harris66 handles moderation is honestly a huge red flag.

I just really hope that once this whole thing blows over, her constant habit of deleting posts finally gets fixed with a permanent solution that actually keeps the majority of us on this forum happy.

ruggedseal19 said:The sheer number of people unhappy with Mark Harris66's moderation is what really bothers me.

I just hope this whole thing regarding her constant deleting finally gets a permanent fix that actually satisfies most of the users here.

What strikes me is how much politics keeps bleeding into Tourism, which is completely pointless! If people want political debates, they should just head over to Politics and leave us alone. Luckily, that doesn't happen all that often.

One thing is obvious—you have this specific obsession with partisan history and monuments, which is fine; we don't all share the same interests when it comes to travel. As long as it doesn't turn into endless fighting between the left and the right, I don't care.

Did NN mess up? I suppose she did, but who hasn't? From my own experience with forum moderation, I know you can't please everyone. I think NN does an okay job, but I’d personally prefer if she could just strip the Tourism section of any political nonsense whenever possible. When issues like this pop up, though, she handles it by sticking to principle without picking sides.

Mass deleting posts IS politics. You can't talk about Tourism without touching on its downsides, and you definitely can't ignore how intertwined Tourism and Politics are—maybe more than any other sector.

The whole Left vs. Right thing doesn't even matter here. It's like people act like those divisions don't exist anymore? And no, it’s not just about that. Politics is also what happens when someone demands there be "no politics." I don't have some weird obsession with it—it's just irrelevant to the topic at hand.

What's clearly eating at me, and honestly driving me crazy, is this suppression of any kind of progressive critique. It just so happens to be about Tourism right now, but it could've been anything, while these regressive, backwards views are basically treated with respect. The method they're using to enforce this political agenda is deleting certain people's posts while letting others slide by. They're clearly treating us like idiots—if I'm being polite about it.
Besides, it's obvious that Tourism is moderated under the rule that we should all just be consumers of travel products—like a flock of sheep meant to visit Museums or wherever else without questioning anything except how to get there, what to see, and how to get home. Because if we actually ask questions, we're labeled "Offtopic," our views get nuked, or if we're "lucky," we get shoved into the Offtopic section, which is basically a dumping ground for people they think are crazy. Sure, I'm oversimplifying, but that's pretty much how it works. It's wrong, annoying, and totally unfair in every sense. Tourism isn't just made up of consumers; it's a much bigger, more complex story. That's why it's crucial that everyone who wants to join the conversation gets heard, provided they follow the rules, which is usually the case with Tourism anyway.

I'll stop here since we're officially offtopic.
I just really hope we don't have to keep going through this cycle where we all end up complaining about the exact same things over and over. It's in everyone's best interest to just fix this situation once and for all.