Setting the rules for the Reddit F1 championship 2013

Quick question for the host here... 🤣

Don't you think the racers deserve to know there are people among them actually cheating in the championship?
And don't you think they have a right to know if a player like that is just going to be allowed to keep competing in this year's season?

In my book, cheating should be handled the way it was back in 2010—when everyone using multiple clones got disqualified from the current season and banned from next year's race. Instead, we're basically giving them an apology and an invitation to stay in the game. It sends such a terrible message... like, hey, go ahead and clone yourself. If you get caught, worst case scenario is they just delete the clone, but the original guy gets to keep racing like nothing happened. 🤣 You even get a "joker" card to make sure you don't miss a round... 🤣 then you just find another teammate (or just spawn a new clone and try to be more careful next time). 🤣

Edward Howard2 said:Quick question for the host here... 🤣

Don't you think the racers deserve to know there are people among them actually cheating in the championship?
And don't you think they have a right to know if a player like that is just going to be allowed to keep competing in this year's season?

In my book, cheating should be handled the way it was back in 2010—when everyone using multiple clones got disqualified from the current season and banned from next year's race. Instead, we're basically giving them an apology and an invitation to stay in the game. It sends such a terrible message... like, hey, go ahead and clone yourself. If you get caught, worst case scenario is they just delete the clone, but the original guy gets to keep racing like nothing happened. 🤣 You even get a "joker" card to make sure you don't miss a round... 🤣 then you just find another teammate (or just spawn a new clone and try to be more careful next time). 🤣

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about; take that up with the moderators! 😁

Just kidding!

Don't you think the competitors have a right to know there are people among them cheating in the championship?
Don't you think the competitors have a right to know that such a player will be allowed to continue playing in this year's championship?

In my view, cheating should be sanctioned much like it was back in 2010—by disqualifying all multiple clones from the current season and banning them from next year's competition. It shouldn't just result in an apology and an invitation to keep playing. Doing this sends a dangerous message: "Go ahead, clone yourself... and if you get caught, the worst that happens is your clone gets removed, while the original can keep competing as if nothing happened." 🤣 You even have a joker card to ensure you don't miss a round... 🤣 and then you just find another colleague (or simply create a new clone and be more careful next time). 🤣

The fundamental issue is that this specific situation isn't explicitly defined in the rulebook, so I have to rely on my own judgment.

The Commissioner is acting here as both the organizer and a moderator, so they are aware of the situation, but that doesn't mean they are obligated to act in a certain way. A tournament director isn't required to dig through the PZK, nor are the moderators obligated to submit reports regarding bans directly to the Commissioner.

A ban, in its essence, isn't necessarily permanent (as we've seen even with supposed permanent bans), and there is no guarantee that a competitor won't be reinstated by a higher authority before the deadline for the next forecast.

Every competitor in this championship is welcome, provided they respect the rules and are prepared to face the consequences if they violate them!

In my management system, I did not account for the withdrawal or expulsion of competitors from the championship!

Those are, in short, the reasons behind the decision to allow both banned competitors to continue in the championship, strictly following all existing rules!
If you or anyone else knows of any other clones in the championship, feel free to speak up!
😁

Terry Carter2 said:I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about; take that up with the moderators! 😁

Just kidding!

Don't you think the competitors have a right to know there are people among them cheating in the championship?
Don't you think the competitors have a right to know that such a player will be allowed to continue playing in this year's championship?

In my view, cheating should be sanctioned much like it was back in 2010—by disqualifying all multiple clones from the current season and banning them from next year's competition. It shouldn't just result in an apology and an invitation to keep playing. Doing this sends a dangerous message: "Go ahead, clone yourself... and if you get caught, the worst that happens is your clone gets removed, while the original can keep competing as if nothing happened." 🤣 You even have a joker card to ensure you don't miss a round... 🤣 and then you just find another colleague (or simply create a new clone and be more careful next time). 🤣

The fundamental issue is that this specific situation isn't explicitly defined in the rulebook, so I have to rely on my own judgment.

The Commissioner is acting here as both the organizer and a moderator, so they are aware of the situation, but that doesn't mean they are obligated to act in a certain way. A tournament director isn't required to dig through the PZK, nor are the moderators obligated to submit reports regarding bans directly to the Commissioner.

A ban, in its essence, isn't necessarily permanent (as we've seen even with supposed permanent bans), and there is no guarantee that a competitor won't be reinstated by a higher authority before the deadline for the next forecast.

Every competitor in this championship is welcome, provided they respect the rules and are prepared to face the consequences if they violate them!

In my management system, I did not account for the withdrawal or expulsion of competitors from the championship!

Those are, in short, the reasons behind the decision to allow both banned competitors to continue in the championship, strictly following all existing rules!
If you or anyone else knows of any other clones in the championship, feel free to speak up!
😁

This is really just a matter of common sense rather than strict rulebook stuff. 🤣

Besides, there's actually a specific rule for these kinds of messy situations...

Terry Carter2 said:Rule 14: If a controversial situation arises during the competition that isn't explicitly covered by the points in this Rulebook, the race director will make the call using common sense while sticking to the principle of fair competition.

I really don't see how this is "fair competition" for those of us who aren't running multiple accounts...

How exactly do you think both of them can keep participating? 😁 It's not exactly right if the clone users just hang around for the next three races waiting to play their jokers, is it? 🤣

Edward Howard2 said:This is really just a matter of common sense rather than strict rulebook stuff. 🤣

Besides, there's actually a specific rule for these kinds of messy situations...

I really don't see how this is "fair competition" for those of us who aren't running multiple accounts...

How exactly do you think both of them can keep participating? 😁 It's not exactly right if the clone users just hang around for the next three races waiting to play their jokers, is it? 🤣

For now, yes. Like I told you, I have no desire to step on the toes of the moderators or management. Even if I wanted to, I have zero motivation to rush into deleting points or anything of the sort...
Try to stop looking at this solely from the perspective of someone without clones. Just imagine for a second that you were the one sitting in the accused's chair.
Picture this: you rack up a mountain of points, you're leading the championship, and then suddenly you get hit with a ban—maybe even a permanent one—that you claim is completely unjustified. Then, some self-righteous bystander steps up and insists you need to be disqualified immediately. The manager actually goes ahead and does it, having no clue that you’ll eventually prove to the moderation team that the ban was a mistake, allowing you to rejoin the fray.
Ten days later, you show up back in the competition and say, "Hey, I'm playing again, why on earth would I be disqualified?" (I assume you follow my logic here)
Then that same "righteous" guy pipes up, saying, "Well, yeah, why wouldn't they let him back in!" and so on...
Meanwhile, I'm the manager sitting here all night long, typing, calculating, deleting, recalculating, and typing more, just going in circles. Look, I shouldn't have to kill myself just for the sake of the Formula One World Championship.
😁

Terry Carter2 said:I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about; take that up with the moderators! 😁

Just kidding!

Don't you think the competitors have a right to know there are people among them cheating in the championship?
Don't you think the competitors have a right to know that such a player will be allowed to continue playing in this year's championship?

In my view, cheating should be sanctioned much like it was back in 2010—by disqualifying all multiple clones from the current season and banning them from next year's competition. It shouldn't just result in an apology and an invitation to keep playing. Doing this sends a dangerous message: "Go ahead, clone yourself... and if you get caught, the worst that happens is your clone gets removed, while the original can keep competing as if nothing happened." 🤣 You even have a joker card to ensure you don't miss a round... 🤣 and then you just find another colleague (or simply create a new clone and be more careful next time). 🤣

The fundamental issue is that this specific situation isn't explicitly defined in the rulebook, so I have to rely on my own judgment.

The Commissioner is acting here as both the organizer and a moderator, so they are aware of the situation, but that doesn't mean they are obligated to act in a certain way. A tournament director isn't required to dig through the PZK, nor are the moderators obligated to submit reports regarding bans directly to the Commissioner.

A ban, in its essence, isn't necessarily permanent (as we've seen even with supposed permanent bans), and there is no guarantee that a competitor won't be reinstated by a higher authority before the deadline for the next forecast.

Every competitor in this championship is welcome, provided they respect the rules and are prepared to face the consequences if they violate them!

In my management system, I did not account for the withdrawal or expulsion of competitors from the championship!

Those are, in short, the reasons behind the decision to allow both banned competitors to continue in the championship, strictly following all existing rules!
If you or anyone else knows of any other clones in the championship, feel free to speak up!
😁

Good grief, Terry Carter2—until you actually became a mod, you spent ten years just posting emojis. You've always had that same avatar (ševa) and haven't even hit a hundred posts total.

If we're going to talk about clones, you're the first one on my radar. 🙂

So, am I the original here, or just some cheap clone?
😁

Terry Carter2 said:So, am I the original here, or just some cheap clone?
😁

I honestly couldn't say—it’s really more a matter of your own conscience anyway.🙂

Let’s put in some effort and vote in the newly posted poll for this thread to support our most reasonable proposal!
Under this suggestion, any scenario where more than 75% of the drivers are ranked identically within the full forecast would be classified as a tie, bringing us perfectly in line with the existing regulations.

If this democratic approach to updating our current rules proves successful, we'll move on to tackling the points system right after this poll concludes!
😁

One quick question here.
Would any potential new rules being voted on be implemented immediately this season, or would they wait until next season takes off?
I mean, things like transcription updates or minor rule tweaks make sense to roll out right away, but changing the points system once the season is already underway? In my opinion, that’s a recipe for disaster. Why?
Now, this falls under the territory of ŠBBKBB, but I have a nagging feeling we'd end up with people whining that it isn't fair to change the scoring system mid-stream. They'd claim everything should have been done under the old rules and argue they were cheated because the new scoring wasn't there from day one.
So, to me, it seems perfectly logical to take these major rule changes, put them up for deliberation and a vote, and then officially bake them into the rulebook for the following season.
Basically, while we are all active during the current season, we should use this time to debate all the ambiguities, potential shifts, proposals, and other championship matters. We discuss, we vote, and we shape the new regulations or amendments for the next year. Because, as we saw during this off-season break—when the current rules and leadership elections were on the table—a huge chunk of the group was either absent, uninterested, or just checked out. Therefore, this system of drafting rules or amendments during an active season to prepare for the next one seems like the only sensible way to go.🙂

Terry Carter2 said:Let’s put in some effort and vote in the newly posted poll for this thread to support our most reasonable proposal!
Under this suggestion, any scenario where more than 75% of the drivers are ranked identically within the full forecast would be classified as a tie, bringing us perfectly in line with the existing regulations.

If this democratic approach to updating our current rules proves successful, we'll move on to tackling the points system right after this poll concludes!
😁

These poll questions are pretty pointless—you completely missed the mark on what this thread is actually about.

Maybe you should add an option like: Copying is fine, unless the people being copied decide to file a complaint. 😁

And from what I can see, the crowd is overwhelmingly voting to just "keep everything exactly as it was."

Are they referring to the rule change from a couple of days ago, or the original set of rules we started with? 😁

Terry Carter2 said:For now, yes. Like I told you, I have no desire to step on the toes of the moderators or management. Even if I wanted to, I have zero motivation to rush into deleting points or anything of the sort...
Try to stop looking at this solely from the perspective of someone without clones. Just imagine for a second that you were the one sitting in the accused's chair.
Picture this: you rack up a mountain of points, you're leading the championship, and then suddenly you get hit with a ban—maybe even a permanent one—that you claim is completely unjustified. Then, some self-righteous bystander steps up and insists you need to be disqualified immediately. The manager actually goes ahead and does it, having no clue that you’ll eventually prove to the moderation team that the ban was a mistake, allowing you to rejoin the fray.
Ten days later, you show up back in the competition and say, "Hey, I'm playing again, why on earth would I be disqualified?" (I assume you follow my logic here)
Then that same "righteous" guy pipes up, saying, "Well, yeah, why wouldn't they let him back in!" and so on...
Meanwhile, I'm the manager sitting here all night long, typing, calculating, deleting, recalculating, and typing more, just going in circles. Look, I shouldn't have to kill myself just for the sake of the Formula One World Championship.
😁

Look... and your whole thing about handing out penalties (not even debating if they're fair) on the championship thread is mixing administrative roles with moderating if that's how you see it... but honestly, talking about "what ifs" is pointless... what if you weren't a mod or whatever... the fact is, you *are* a mod, you caught the cheating, and instead of using your position to protect the integrity of the competition, you're making things complicated by validating Joker predictions for guys you know are just clones...
If you think a cheater can prove to the admins they aren't using clones, just set a 7-10 day window for them to do it. Don't publish the official results until that period is up. We can post provisional results for Malaysia with a note saying they might be adjusted due to certain reasons. It's much easier to wait ten days for the final standings than to deal with the fallout later when we realize clones were stealing points from people who actually earned them.
Also, it's useless to speculate about what would happen if this was discovered halfway through the season while someone is leading the pack... the reality is we caught it right at the start. This is actually a good thing—we caught it right after the first race, so we can nip it in the bud, disqualify the clones, adjust the results for Australia, and head into the second race with a clean slate.
I get that as the organizer, you have to deal with the headache of deleting and correcting everything... I used to run things too, so I know it's a grind... but I'd much rather redo the math five times than let someone make a fool out of me by running a competition filled with clones... cloning is the toughest kind of cheating there is, and I really don't think there should be any mercy or pity for anyone who chooses to go that route...

As for the copying issue... I voted against changing anything, not because the current rule is perfect, but because it doesn't *need* to change for the competition to work better. I feel the same way about changing the scoring system; there's zero justification for changing it mid-season if it's been working fine for three years, especially if the only reason to change it is because certain individuals had bad luck. 🤦 That whole mess reminds me so much of that first race back in 2009 when they were also only counting drivers in the exact positions...🤣

ruggedhawk20 said:When I buy my buddies a round of beers, it's just being a good friend—it's not some illegal sweepstakes.

So, does the winner actually get a prize?

I’m the one handing out the prize for the "Presvetli Cup." Basically, at the end of the season, I'm buying a six-pack for whoever wins the "Presvetli Cup."

Yeah 😁exactly.

Go ahead, try explaining to the U.S. Treasury how you, Dorian, and Terry Carter2 run a sports prediction game on an online forum where prizes are handed out... then come back and tell us what they have to say about it. 😁

@Terry Carter2

I'm not sure if anyone actually put together the standings from the last race. I can't find the thread anywhere—does anyone even bother with that anymore this season? Everything is so cluttered now that I can barely navigate the forum without getting lost. 😁

I’m usually down to handle the podium graphics, but my computer is currently in the shop. If someone else could step up and whip up the tables for the last race and the upcoming one—maybe just drop the avatars into last year's podium template—that would be great. Does anyone actually handle the standings lately? Once my PC is back, I'll get started on some fresh podium designs. By the way, where did the results thread go? Or is everything just being dumped into this massive mess now? 😁

Changing the rules mid-season is absolute madness, especially when you start messing with the points system.☕
And anyone trying to act like a genius by lecturing others on the regulations halfway through the season... just shut it. Save the wisdom for next year.
There was plenty of time to debate the rules during the off-season. Anyone who didn't speak up then can officially eat their words now.
Otherwise, we’d basically have rule changes every single race depending on whoever feels like benefiting at that exact moment.🙄

At this rate, I could probably spend my time obsessing over exactly how much extra credit the PP should get for Australia, since God knows that might actually net me a few points.😬

Anyone who actually copies those results should have half a point docked from their standing in this race and that’s that.

Seriously though, who are these "clones" everyone keeps talking about? 🍿

darkmarlin16 said:Seriously though, who are these "clones" everyone keeps talking about? 🍿

well, there's an entire thread about that over on your old corner of the forum... 😁

Edward Howard2 said:well, there's an entire thread about that over on your old corner of the forum... 😁

Whoa, things are getting spicy over there 🍿

Hey, can someone drop the link here? 😁

cosmicridge5 said:@Terry Carter2

I'm not sure if anyone actually put together the standings from the last race. I can't find the thread anywhere—does anyone even bother with that anymore this season? Everything is so cluttered now that I can barely navigate the forum without getting lost. 😁

I’m usually down to handle the podium graphics, but my computer is currently in the shop. If someone else could step up and whip up the tables for the last race and the upcoming one—maybe just drop the avatars into last year's podium template—that would be great. Does anyone actually handle the standings lately? Once my PC is back, I'll get started on some fresh podium designs. By the way, where did the results thread go? Or is everything just being dumped into this massive mess now? 😁

The results are on the main page of the championship, and regarding the podium graphics, don't sweat it. We'll wait until you get your gear fixed before you tackle them!
😁