Politics Moderation - Ukraine topic, moderator Rocky

It’s happening again on Politics, just like a few weeks ago. It’s the same crowd constantly swapping out their usernames, flooding the thread by the thousands—maybe even hundreds of times—trying to force these totally random comparisons between what’s going on in Ukraine and the wars back during the old America days. They’re obsessed with these arbitrary parallels. Basically, they’re all pushing the narrative that Russia is just like Mexico, or that the rebels are basically Royalists, and so on. At the exact same time, they’re clearly and aggressively acting as cheerleaders for the idea that the USA is the greatest thing ever created. But get this: the second I try to make a similarly logical comparison between the situation in Ukraine and any tension between China, the USA, or any other global dispute, my post gets nuked and I get flagged for a violation. Typical.

Things calmed down for a bit after I filed that last complaint. But now? It’s all kicking off again because a few clones decided to reboot themselves. And still zero reaction from the moderators. Seriously?

Whenever I decide to call out people with those kinds of views as being nothing more than "warmongers," this is exactly what happens:

Reddit 21:47 goldenowl73 06/20/2014

Hey Jack Cook7,

You have received a violation on Reddit

Reason: Calling oneself trolling
-------

You have received a violation on Reddit. This one's a 35-point hit, which means you might find yourself locked out for a bit until it clears. Just a heads up—serious violations stay on your record forever.

Original Post:

Practix says: Check out this post
Ukrainians are such chill, hardworking, and genuinely smart people. They’re handling this whole anti-terrorist operation super tactically and taking it slow just to keep the casualties to a minimum. They're actually hoping the terrorists will just come to their senses and pack up and leave those occupied parts of Ukraine. Honestly, if it were up to Moscow, they would've leveled the whole place to the ground by now—dead or alive. That’s where Ukrainians are different; they aren't afraid, but they don't go looking for a fight either.

Jack Cook7 says:
Looks like the buzzer squad just got some reinforcements.

Honestly, they had it coming, goddammit...

So, I tried it again. After repeatedly using the same handle to flag those thousands of unacceptable posts to the moderators, the result is... go ahead, take a guess:

Reddit 21:56 goldenowl73 06/20/2014
You have received a violation on Reddit. This one's worth 30 points and might get you locked out for a bit until it clears. Just a heads up—serious violations stay on your record forever.

Original Post:
Reddit 21:56 goldenowl73 06/20/2014

Quote:
Moderators, seriously, how much longer are we going to have to put up with this?

It’s pretty obvious that the moderator, goldenowl73, is totally biased on this topic. You can see it everywhere—from how he handles his own posts like he owns the place to the way he "moderates" my stuff. My post got nuked, while the original post stayed right up. Typical.

Here’s a rundown of all the violations I've picked up over the last month—all of them were about Ukraine:

06/20/2014. You have received a violation on Reddit
Reddit 21:56 goldenowl73

06/20/2014. You have received a violation on Reddit
21:47 goldenowl73

Posts: 1 Last week

06/10/2014. You have received a violation on Reddit
21:07 goldenowl73

Posts: 1 two weeks ago

06/04/2014. You have received a violation on Reddit
06:23 goldenowl73

Posts: 1 3 weeks ago
05/25/2014. You have received a violation on Reddit
13:29

I’m ASKING AGAIN to please clear this thread out of all those clones. They are totally suffocating the discussion with their mindless, random, and a thousand times debunked comparisons that do nothing but demonize one side of the argument.

For all these reasons, I’m asking to have my last two violations wiped. It’s blindingly obvious that one of the moderators is having a hard time dealing with anyone who holds views contrary to their own, and they're basically letting the clones take over the thread just because they happen to agree with the mod's personal bias.

Because of all that, I’m also requesting that goldenowl73 be stripped of their moderation rights for this specific thread.

Well, I have to admit, I actually enjoy getting into a debate with goldenowl73.

goldenowl73 acting as a moderator for this thread?

I’ve gotta say, he’s a bit biased.

He tends to tolerate clones and people who echo his own views, while handing out bans to anyone with a different opinion just because of some minor stupidity.
The perfect example is driftingtinker, who got banned a couple of days ago over a post saying, "This is what you call trolling," which was actually a reaction to the video posted above.
Since the post containing the video had already been deleted, it just looked like AX was trolling into a void.
AX is basically our go-to video translator here; there are others, sure, but they aren't nearly as active or consistent, which makes him incredibly valuable to this discussion.
If someone commits a massive, blatant violation of the rules, then yeah, let them fly, but if it isn't that serious, it’s a real shame to lose someone who spends their time silently translating videos for everyone else.

I wouldn't mind goldenowl73 handing out warnings if I didn't get the nagging feeling that he "overlooks" the exact same violations when they come from people who agree with him.

About a month ago, I actually wrote something about how he moderates the thread regarding Ukraine, pointing out that it would be much fairer if he just stepped back from moderating entirely while he's so passionately rooting for one side, but clearly, that didn't lead anywhere.

PS: I picked up a warning today for this post:
http://www.reddit.com/showpost.php?p=5...&postcount=379

I didn't appeal it, but honestly, I don't know how else to respond to that NATO argument claiming Greenpeace is cozying up to Putin, other than with a bit of humor.😁
The joke would have totally fallen flat if I had included a formal description of the video (which showed a Russian helicopter landing on a Greenpeace ship).
But looking at it strictly by the book, I guess I was wrong—I didn't include the video description.🙂

Yeah. I’m also voting to have goldenowl73 suspended from the Ukraine thread by the mods. Reason—heavy bias.

I honestly don't think someone as biased as goldenowl73 should be anywhere near moderating a topic this complex.
The real issue is how he turns a blind eye to trolling from users who share his views—including those obvious clones—which completely undermines the integrity of the discussion. On top of that, he occasionally engages in trolling himself, even when it's proven beyond a doubt that he's wrong.
Meanwhile, anyone who dares to disagree with him constantly finds themselves getting penalized for the smallest, most insignificant things.

Like I mentioned in that other thread, I’m getting this weird vibe that our dear moderator is being a little biased, you know? It feels like his finger is always hovering over the ban button whenever he thinks he can catch some contrarian off guard with a little penalty.

The second thing is that, if we’re being honest, most of the people here are just straight-up trolling in the Ukraine thread—like that absolute nonsense about the old ladies in Russia tonight.

Once a few of us get fed up with this kind of stupidity and walk away, the thread is basically gonna be left to that one lone genius and his dozen clones who show up every single day.🙂

BTW. Isn't it kind of strange how the only ones whining here are the pro-Russians? Not a single democrat in sight.🙂

Just speaking in general terms here; you'll find answers to your earlier questions soon enough.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion that someone is using a clone account, but we need certainty. We can only step in once we're absolutely sure. Owning a clone isn't against the rules, but using one alongside your main account on the same thread—or trying to bypass a ban by using a clone while the original is suspended—is where we have to step in and investigate.
The colleague mentioned isn't the only moderator handling this thread, though he tends to be more visible since he posts more frequently than the rest of us.

Oh, please. We aren't even talking about subtle clones here; we're talking about those humanoid bots where you can smell them coming after the very first sentence, even if you're just casually scrolling through the thread.
Right after they sign up, they rush straight to the polls to cast their vote, and then they just pick up right where they left off in their last session—doing this exact same thing every single day. 🙂

But look, let's not get sidetracked; the clones are actually the smaller issue here.

Look, we actually have visibility into your IP addresses. Seriously, if I even get a hunch that someone is a clone, I’ll go ahead and check. I sniff around, compare IPs, and run my own little clone tracker... and right at the start of this thread, it says in bold and underlined, "We aren't going to warn you about this anymore, nor will we warn you about tagging people or especially the mutual accusations of trolling.
" This is already the seventh thread about Ukraine where we keep pinning the exact same post, and you guys CONSTANTLY ignore it. It's a million warnings, pleas, and strikes. Yet, the same group of people keeps doing the exact same things.

And honestly, the persistent, almost daily refrain from you heavy hitters is always "stop trolling," or "look how much they're trolling," etc. Even here in this specific thread, you couldn't help yourselves.

Just look at the thread itself. You've basically chased away everyone with half a brain through your constant aggressive outbursts. If Charles Fox10 and I didn't step in to clean this mess up, nobody who thinks differently than you few regular visitors—who keep pushing that same old line over there—would ever write anything. Because once you catch someone in your loop, there's no way they're staying for more than a couple of days. You'll just be left with about ten of you sitting there alone, stroking each other's egos and mocking any links anyone tries to post. And heaven forbid someone returns to post about the guy or the works of the President of the RF; then you'll probably finally have a thread that suits your tastes, where they'll start posting every tiny detail of a tank's carburetor like it's some peak achievement of human civilization.

goldenowl73 said:Reddit 21:56 goldenowl73 06/20/2014 Look, we actually have visibility into your IP addresses. Believe me, if I suspect someone is just some clone account—I check them. I sniff around, compare IPs, and run a bit of a clone tracker... and right at the start of the thread, it’s written in bold and underlined: "We won't be warning you about this anymore, nor will we be banning people for tagging others..." Especially all those mutual accusations about calling oneself trolling—it's just constant.
This is actually the seventh thread about Ukraine where we keep slapping this exact same post onto it—a post that you guys CONSTANTLY ignore. I mean, seriously... a million warnings, endless pleas, even getting accounts wiped—it doesn't matter. It’s still just the same people, doing the exact same things, over and over again.

It’s still happening—that same persistent, almost daily little jab from you active posters. "Stop trolling," "Look how they're trolling," and so on. Even here, in this specific thread, you guys just couldn't help yourselves from falling into that same old pattern.

Just look at this thread. You guys have basically chased everyone living in it away with those constant, aggressive outbursts. I mean, if Charles Fox10 and I weren't constantly cleaning up the mess, nobody would be left—except for you few regular visitors who insist on keeping the most extreme side represented there. Because once you corner someone in an argument, there’s zero chance they’ll stick around for more than a couple of days. Eventually, it'll just be about ten of you sitting there alone, stroking each other's egos and mocking whatever links people post. And then, once the fanboys of the Russian President come back, they'll probably start posting every single tiny detail about some tank's carburetor like it's some kind of pinnacle of human civilization... then maybe, just maybe, you'll finally have the thread exactly how you want it.

Reddit 21:56 goldenowl73 06/20/2014 Hey, what is this massive distortion of the facts and this whole act of playing the innocent victim? Honestly, if this thread turned into a total fanboy shouting match, that’s mostly on you—though I guess Bubby peace bears some responsibility too, since you guys didn't bother weeding out the trolls and the partisans right from the jump. Then you have the other side—the ones actually using arguments and evidence from the start—which is the pro-Russian faction that you still refuse to call by its real name (yeah, the one involving a coup organized and funded by America). They became "fanboys" simply because that was the only way anyone could function in this thread. So, thanks to you and Bubby peace—and maybe a few others—for that. But it isn't just about the trolls—and yeah, I'd count you in there since you just keep posting the same debunked takes over and over again—it's also about how you guys selectively hand out bans to anyone who dares to disagree with you. Take me, for instance... I picked up five warnings throughout April, all from Bubby peace's crew. One was for "nonsense"—which was basically just me making a joke to a female moderator—while at the same time, certain people are allowed to openly spread racial and nationalistic hate against Palestinians in a thread about Ukraine. I’d love to see how Reddit would handle it if someone wrote something about Jews the way Bubby peace does when he's talking trash about Palestinians. It's clearly a double standard.

Does it actually bother you when people get called out for trolling? I mean—maybe it should. It feels like we should finally start cracking down on actual trolling, starting with those spammers who just pop up on every single thread to repeat the same debunked lies the second they've been proven wrong.
If you want actual proof that they just tolerate trolling here—I mean, look at the fact that Michael Collins still hasn't been hit with a permanent ban on Reddit.

Don't take this personally—I actually held you and Bubby peace in pretty high regard—but you guys completely lost all credibility during that Ukraine discussion. It felt like watching a bunch of small-minded, insecure little pharaohs trying to nurse their own egos by flexing whatever tiny bit of authority they happen to hold. If I were the moderator, I’d have just stepped down from my duties on that thread immediately. Honestly, if there's a conflict of interest—meaning, getting bogged down in those endless regional squabbles where everyone insists on fighting tooth and nail just to prove a point over absolute trivialities—I'd rather just opt out.

Before anything else, I’d probably try to efficiently clear out all the weeds from the Ukraine thread—I mean, if I were running things. My first move would be to pin a chronological overview of the proven events being discussed right at the top (for instance, on Feb 12th, the US Ambassador stated that Americans did indeed fund the coup in Ukraine, then on Feb 14th, certain riots broke out, followed by Feb 15th... though those dates are just placeholders, obviously). That way, anyone wanting to argue otherwise would actually have to back themselves up with credible links. If someone managed to prove a specific point in that timeline was wrong, it would get corrected immediately—but if they couldn't, they wouldn't be allowed to keep repeating that same claim in the thread. That seems to be the Achilles' heel of this whole discussion—everyone on both sides just keeps regurgitating the same tired, debunked nonsense, even people like you and others similar to you acting as moderators. If they didn't stop, they’d be flagged instantly as a troll.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet—challenging you and anyone else who thinks like you to an actual debate over what's happening in Ukraine. Let's see who actually has the stamina to keep this going for a full month.

Look, I honestly don't give a damn about people using clones—even if they’re posting under one or two different accounts. I don't even use them myself! Heck, even if those clones are actually being paid to sit there and type, I couldn't care less. What I *actually* have a problem with is what I already mentioned, so I’m gonna say it again, just with a bit more detail:

1. People are just constantly dumbing down this whole "Ukraine" topic. Seriously. It’s just the same old nonsense. You’re hitting me with those mindless, arbitrary comparisons again—the same stuff we already chewed through over on PŽK back when you guys called me out (you know, the whole bit about the frontier, fascists, Nazis, and Maddox). Look, this topic is super relevant, I get it, but when someone keeps recycling the exact same "argument" thousands of times even after being countered a thousand times, it isn't a debate anymore. It's just one side trying to run a propaganda campaign. And then, of course, anyone who dares to disagree or push back gets labeled a tool, a Russophile, or a Putin follower. Honestly, those comparisons are about as useful as comparing the war in Ukraine to some Star Trek episode where the United Federation of Planets and their shaky allies the Vulcans go up against the Klingons and those wildcards that keep switching sides like the Romulans.
Here’s a bit of a "historical source" for you to chew on—go ahead and compare: Check this out: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation_War_(2372-73)) with the war in Ukraine.
What’s even the point? Once you've laid out all the arguments and counterarguments comparing those two conflicts—showing exactly where they line up and where they don't—the case is closed. Honestly, bringing it up again after everyone’s already been warned is just straight-up spamming the thread. Or trolling, or fallacy-mongering... whatever you want to call it.

On the flip side, if you start making comparisons to other conflicts—you know, like China/Taiwan/Japan/Korea, the US/Vietnam situation, or even the Federation vs. Klingons (whether you're joking around or being dead serious)—and those matchups are actually just as relevant and comparable, you score points. Last time I checked, poking fun at people or using irony regarding their posts and views wasn't against the rules, though most of the time I find myself scoring my points specifically through that irony (aka "trolling").

Look, the point is obvious—one side is just trying to take the whole Ukraine conflict and drag it onto our own backyard. They’re basically using emotional blackmail to manipulate readers who don't have all the facts, and honestly, no amount of actual counter-arguments even makes a dent. I'm not saying any of that isn't true, BUT THIS SAME CROWD DOES THIS THOUSANDS OF TIMES. It's a total pattern. Repeat that a thousand times and maybe people will actually start believing you!Honestly, at least 10% of the posts in this thread—which, let's be real, probably has over 50,000 replies by now—just boil down to that same old, stale emotional blackmail. They keep dragging up the war in America to guilt-trip anyone talking. It’s basically like they’re labeling anyone who doesn't blindly cheer for the current Kyiv armed groups as some kind of radical extremist sympathizer. And if you actually point out how ridiculous that is? Boom. You get flagged.

So, basically, moderation here just lets people spam this thread constantly with these fresh little clone accounts throwing out random quasi-arguments, even though they were debunked ages ago (or "debunked," if you want to be picky). It feels like they just pick and choose who to punish based on whatever the moderators are feeling that day. On the flip side, they’ll go after posts about Koniev because apparently he's "detailing every single screw in a Russian tank," which—let's be real—is actually more informative than most of the crap being posted by "the side" that never gets sanctioned. Honestly, it's just the same old story I ran into last time when I wrote that long-winded breakdown over on PŽK.

And just like that, we stumble right into the whole "Buzin fighting squads" concept.

2. "Buzin-bojna" Reddit 21:56 goldenowl73 06/20/2014 Honestly, there’s a nickname that’s just stuck to this Politics/World news thread because even a blind man can see what’s happening. It’s become super obvious that there’s always this same little crew flooding a few specific topics with nothing but endless praise for the USA, democracy, the West, the Arab Spring, and all that stuff. It really blew up during the whole Syria war situation. As soon as things escalated in Ukraine, everyone suddenly pivoted. One minute they were obsessing over Syria, and the next, those same "crusaders" jumped ship to focus entirely on Ukraine. Now? You barely even see them talking about Syria anymore. They just move wherever the hype is. Like they were following orders.Man, they spent months flooding the Syria threads with the same old recycled lines like, "Oh, the USA is the greatest democracy ever, everyone knows it! Why doesn't anyone just move to Russia or China instead? Why don't you want to live with the allies of that bloodthirsty dictator Assad who’s slaughtering his own people?" They posted that stuff thousands of times. And then, suddenly—poof—it’s all over and everyone pivots en masse to Ukraine. I don't even bother asking anymore if they're getting paid for this gig (I mean, it’s only a few hours of work a day if you're just hitting one or two threads), or if the check comes from some embassy or whoever else is pulling the strings. But now, you actually get penalized just for suggesting someone might be part of that "Embassy Brigade." Clearly, that little nickname hits a nerve with someone.

On the flip side, there’s absolutely zero penalty or even a slap on the wrist when someone from the "Buzin brigade" calls their opponents a "pro-Russian internet troll brigade" (there were a few posts right before my comment about the "Buzin brigade," but they've been scrubbed now, of course). So, I’d love for someone to explain to me: what exactly is so offensive or punishable about calling someone a member of the "Buzin brigade," yet it’s perfectly fine to call someone a "pro-Russian" or a "Russophile"? Personally, I’m neither, and I find those labels pretty insulting. It’s funny because just a couple of months ago, everyone was claiming Russians get paid $36 a day to be active online. Around that same time, the "Buzin brigade" started acting all offended by that label and the hint that they might actually be getting paid for their "work."

3. And while we're talking about this "Buzin brigade" and all their clone accounts, here’s a little tip for the moderators: — look, you guys can't catch a clone if they don't want to be found and know exactly what they're doing.

Changing an IP address is a piece of cake—you've got all sorts of public and private proxies to choose from, including Tor. There are basically three levels of proxies: some just mask or swap your IP, others substitute the entire TCP/IP session, and then there's the third level that hides absolutely everything, including your browser settings (type of browser, cookies, resolution, unique configurations, "fingerprinting," etc.).

You can actually run an online test to check this stuff for yourself; there are tons of them out there:
https://anonymous-proxy-servers.net/...rity_test.html
...all while paying a subscription for whatever level of anonymity you want. And that brings us right back to our potential "Buzin brigade": if someone is being paid to spam certain major political topics, they definitely have their employer's cash to spend on this kind of thing.

Also, just forget about avoiding tracking if you're using Google AdWords, Yahoo, Facebook, or similar online tracking services. By tweaking your local firewall on your PC, you can easily kill off all those pop-up ads that leave fingerprints on your computer (that's that 24-digit hex code you see in the address bar following the thread shortcut on Reddit, which is unique to every user and used, among other things, to track them). This is how they build a user profile, which can then be used to track you across every single website that uses AdWords or similar tech. And no, just disabling cookies isn't enough. One thing is "cross-site scripting"—if you have one session open on, say, Reddit, and another on Gmail, it's possible to jump from one session to the other and back, even if you're using "secure" HTTPS for the latter. That's how Google and the rest of them suck up more data for tracking.

I don't see any ads on Reddit at all because I've blocked the main internet sources for pop-ups, which mostly kills the tracking too (but not entirely). Want a list of firewall commands? I didn't post them here just because I realize Reddit has to make money somehow, and besides, I never click on those ads anyway. Usually, clicking is the main way they build those ad profiles. So how do they change their ads to match my interests on Reddit if I never click? Well, the applets loaded onto your PC scan the traffic you generate on the forum—basically, what threads you're reading. That's why I started seeing ads for vacations in Turkey near the Syrian border, trips to Moscow and St. Petersburg, or ads for various companies selling weapons and military gear—all based on the topics I open in the Politics/World subforum, right up until I blocked them completely. There is a fix for that scanning (including that famous big "I" that Google's English spellcheck constantly inserts into online posts on Reddit, making it obvious they're scanning ALL the traffic moving between the user and Reddit), but let's not get sidetracked. Essentially, Reddit serves as a massive data source for Google, Facebook, and the rest of the giants regarding users/readers and their preferences. Someone packages all that up, sells it, and becomes the richest company in the world. From there, it's actually pretty easy to extract a user's true identity using various utility programs. A byproduct of that is "clone tracking," which moderators use to identify users. So, that's all about "clone tracking" and the sources of the "Buzin brigade"—just sticking to the facts so we don't descend into paranoia.

Getting rid of all that tracking is actually pretty easy, but we’d run into a bit of a snag—if everyone starts knowing what's up, Reddit's ad revenue is gonna tank, and at the same time, we'll get flooded with a bunch of useless clone accounts. Neither side wants that, right? (And seriously, just fix that load balancer over at Orbit; setting up a public DNS isn't rocket science. Also, FYI, you can still track users via public DNS anyway).

==================

Long story short, it all boils down to how moderation is handled, specifically:
a) unbiased moderation—meaning the rules apply to everyone equally.

b) thread management criteria, basically keeping things on track and stopping people from spamming the same nonsense "data" over and over again using clone accounts or whatever else.

It's blindingly obvious that when it comes to the Ukraine thread, neither of those boxes is being checked. Since this isn't the first time this has happened—and it's been dragging on for months, even years if you count the Syria stuff—there's really only one solution: "Either change the horse or change the rider."

So, I'm looking for a response just like I laid out in my first post.

===========================

In a few days, I'm gonna start a thread over in Politics/World asking who's paying for online work on forums, news comment sections, and stuff like that. Let's finally expose those "paid shill" crews that exist just to push agendas, and then act all "offended" the second you call them out on it.

I've been following this thread, and honestly, I think the moderators are doing a pretty solid job overall.

From what I can see, they don't allow people to label the Ukrainian Government or the Maidan protesters as fascists, Nazis, or anything similar—and I actually think that’s fair. It's just labeling, and it doesn't add any real substance to the debate; it isn't an actual argument.

But looking at it from the other side, applying those same labels to Putin, the federalists, or the rebels by calling them Stalinists or Royalists is also just labeling. It should be treated with the exact same level of scrutiny.

Basically, my take is that comparing the Maidan protesters to Nazis or SSovc should be moderated just as strictly as comparing the federalists to Royalists or communists. I'm not saying we're equating Nazis with communists here; I'm just saying that in both cases, it's pure labeling. It adds nothing to the discussion or the logic. Instead, it just triggers an equal reaction from the opposing side, turning everything into a massive trolling fest that makes the thread impossible to read and, frankly, totally useless.🤷

On the side of the Kyiv government, certain neo-Nazi units sporting Nazi symbols are officially being given a pass: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._SS_o...22Das_Reich%22
Here's the proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGxVO6gF_fs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

So, it isn't entirely out of line to label them fascists, even if I personally try to avoid using that term.

On the flip side, there is this constant trend of labeling rebels as terrorists—and that includes civilians, women, and children; basically anyone in the Donbas who stands against the Kyiv government.

Why is this being allowed to happen?

goldenowl73 said:So, basically, the OHCHR just dropped a report regarding the situation over in Ukraine...
It’s a pretty massive piece—honestly quite extensive. I’ll just pull out the most important bits for now...

The presence of armed People and weapons in The regions of Donetsk and Luhansk Has increased—it’s just one of those things that seems to be unfolding right before our eyes, I guess. It’s hard to wrap your head around how quickly things escalate, maybe because we’re all just watching from a distance, but the reality on the ground is shifting. It feels like a slow burn that’s suddenly catching fire, though I suppose that’s just how these geopolitical shifts tend to work. It's a heavy situation, really.
The presence of armed People and weapons in The regions of Donetsk and Luhansk Has increased. Representatives of The “ Donetsk People ’ S Republic ” have recognised The presence within their armed groups of citizens of The Russian Federation , including fra Chechnya and other republics of The North Caucasus. have recognized the
Representatives of The “ Donetsk People ’ S Republic ” have recognised The presence within their armed groups of citizens of The Russian Federation , including fra Chechnya and other republics of The North Caucasus Russiaincluding
...from Chechnya and other republics of the North Caucasus. In the period following the—well, I guess you could say things started shifting then, though maybe that's just how I see it. It’s all pretty complicated, really.
Regarding the elections—well, the HRMMU actually spotted armed men out in trucks and armored vehicles on the move... I guess that says a lot.
walking around downtown Donetsk in daylight.
The escalation in criminal activity resulting in human rights abuses is no longer limited—it’s spreading, I guess. It feels like everything is just spilling over the edges now, past where anyone thought it would go. Maybe that's just how things work when they start sliding downhill, but it definitely doesn't feel contained anymore.
It’s essentially about targeting everyone from journalists and elected officials to local politicians, civil servants, and regular folks in the community—it's just a broad sweep, I guess.
Social activists—it's a broad term, isn't it? I guess you could say they're everywhere these days, though whether that's a good thing or just more noise in an already crowded room... well, that's debatable. There's a certain exhaustion that comes with watching the constant cycle of protests and digital outcries—it feels like everyone is perpetually fighting a battle against some perceived injustice, which, granted, might be necessary sometimes, but it often feels like a treadmill of endless outrage. Maybe it's just me, or maybe we've all just reached a point of collective burnout where every movement feels like a repetition of the last one. It’s a strange, wearying dance between genuine passion and what seems to be performative gesture, and honestly, I'm not sure where the line actually sits anymore. Kidnappings, arbitrary detentions, various forms of mistreatment or torture, and outright killings—it’s all just part of the grim reality of what we're seeing.
The actions of these various armed groups are starting to bleed out—it’s no longer just localized skirmishes—and they're now hitting the general population across both of those eastern regions. I guess you could say the impact is widening, which is... well, it's messy.
...which have basically devolved into this whole atmosphere of intimidation—and honestly, just plain old fear because of it. Armed...
I guess we really need to start pressuring these groups—they’ve got to end these illegal operations and just put the guns down, honestly. Maybe if there was enough pressure, they'd finally see sense, but who knows... it feels like a long shot.
The HRMMU is expressing some serious concern regarding the uptick in reports coming through—it seems like things are escalating quite a bit lately.
I guess I'm just staring at this blank space—not that there's much to say right now, really. It feels like we're just waiting for something to happen, or maybe we've already missed it. Hard to tell sometimes. Anyway, just sitting here. Enforced disappearances—it’s one of those terms that sounds clinical when you read it in a report, but the reality behind it is just... heavy. It’s that chilling process where people simply vanish into thin air, stripped of their legal existence by the state or whoever happens to be holding the guns at the time. There’s no trial, no record, no nothing—just a void where a human being used to be. I guess when you look at how power functions, it’s perhaps the most absolute way to silence someone. It isn't just about removing a person from a room; it's about erasing them from the fabric of society entirely. It leaves families in this permanent, agonizing limbo—not quite mourning because there's no body, but not living because there's no closure. It’s a grim, calculated tool of control, and honestly, it's hard to wrap your head around the sheer coldness required to pull it off. As a result of those security operations—and I suppose we all know how that goes—the Government really has to...
Maybe we should consider using further restraint of force—though I guess that’s easier said than done when things are already spiraling. It’s a delicate balance, really... one where everyone seems to be tripping over their own feet. I don't know. Perhaps more restraint is what's needed, but then again, history suggests that once the momentum starts, staying measured becomes a bit of a pipe dream. Just my two cents, anyway.

Whatever, blah, blah, blah...

znanost2000 said:If you take that report—the one you just shared—and actually compare it to the reports that same organization has put out regarding Israel or the US... well, I guess you start seeing things a bit differently.
Then you’re going to find out that they’ve got even more uncomfortable stuff tucked away over there—I guess it's just one thing after another.

The problem is just... well, it's of this nature.
Whenever a report like that drops about Russia—well, you can bet all the NATO and EU media outlets will be shoving it onto the front page immediately.
It seems like whenever there’s any actual news regarding NATO or the EU membership stuff, people just stop talking about it—or worse, they bury it on the back pages where nobody's looking. I guess that's just how the media works, isn't it? They only care when it fits a certain narrative, otherwise, it just sort of... disappears. Maybe it's intentional, maybe it's just laziness, but it definitely feels like it's being pushed to the sidelines.

Is that even possible?
There isn't a single word of criticism directed at the pro-American regime over in Kyiv—not one.
If they aren't being objective—if there's no actual neutrality there—then they're clearly biased, and honestly, that's just more fuel for their propaganda machine.
If anyone decides to start messing around on Reddit... !!!

.

goldenowl73 said:
Look, we are talking about Ukraine here—if you want to dive into those OHCHR reports regarding Israel, there’s already a specific thread for that, and if you want to talk media, there’s an entire sub-forum dedicated to it. Please, just stick to the topic. I don't know how many times we have to go over this. And no, this isn't a thread for discussing other users, clones, or the moderators either.

He covers just about everything—you really just have to sit back and read. 😉

So, I just clicked on some random thread about Ukraine and—bam—there it is: a glaring example of threats (via future warnings of warnings and bans) being thrown at someone just trying to make a perfectly legitimate point. All coming from a self-proclaimed moderator, naturally, apparently in an attempt to shield their own posts from any potentially uncomfortable replies.

Just so the "moderator" in question knows—when you're in a debate, or a heated argument, or any kind of back-and-forth where two opposing sides exist, if one side brings out their witnesses and evidence, the other side is going to try to dispute them—that is, try to discredit them—by pointing out their past mistakes, lies, deceptions, or crimes.
If the US State Department makes certain claims about Ukraine in the media, it would be 300% valid to challenge their credibility by bringing up their claims regarding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, or their statements about "unarmed, peaceful, and democratic" protesters in Libya, Syria, and so on...

But I guess it’s much more "democratic"—and certainly more parliamentary—to just force your opinion on everyone through the power of moderation...

Raymond Ross33 said:I'm following this thread, and honestly? I think the moderators are doing a pretty solid job.

Here’s what I’ve noticed lately: people aren't allowed to just go around calling the Ukrainian Government or the Maidan protesters fascists or Nazis and stuff like that. And honestly? Good. That kind of labeling doesn't actually add anything to the conversation anyway—it's not even a real argument.

But look, on the flip side, if you’re gonna go around slapping labels like "Stalinist," "Royalist," or whatever else on Putin, the federalists, and the rebels, then that's just labeling too. It all needs to be treated exactly the same way.

Look, I honestly feel like comparing Maidan supporters to Nazis or the SSovc should be moderated just as strictly as comparing Federalists to Royalists or Communists. It’s not even about saying Nazis and Communists are the same thing—it's about the fact that in both cases, you're just slapping on labels that add zero value to the actual debate. All it does is trigger an equal and opposite reaction from the other side, turning the whole thread into a massive troll-fest. It makes it impossible for anyone actually trying to follow the topic to read anything useful, and honestly, it's just a waste of everyone's time. 🤷

I’m pretty much on board with how the mods are handling this thread, except for those specific exceptions I already pointed out.

Labeling the Kyiv government as "fascists" has been a core part of the propaganda playbook for both Ukraine and Russia from the get-go. Honestly, the Ukrainian authorities themselves practically handed them the ammunition for that when they started acting the way they did back on March 1st, 2014. I mean, look—if someone is out there praising Hitler as some kind of liberator who brought freedom to Ukraine in '41... (just look at that appointed governor of the southern Kherson region giving a speech to the people of Kherson on May 9th this year, only to get heckled and pelted with stuff), what are you supposed to call that? And more importantly, how do you label a government that actually appoints people like that or just sits there and tolerates it? Let’s not get bogged down in the weeds here; there's a whole separate thread for deep dives into Ukraine.

It’s pretty obvious there are some Stalin nostalgics among the people opposing them, even if they don't make it super clear. But look, Lenin and that red flag—which always come as a package deal—are the exact person and symbol under which Ukraine was liberated. Sure, you could argue it was actually an occupation, but Lenin is the one who handed Ukraine that entire eastern and southern strip that everyone is fighting over today, stretching all the way from Kharkiv to Odessa. And then you've got Stalin handing over the westernmost part of the country back in '45. Honestly, the USSR, Lenin, and Stalin are responsible for probably like 60% of the territory in modern-day Ukraine. Not to mention that infamous Felix Dzerzhinsky, who apparently has three or four different cities named after him scattered all across Ukraine.

So, there’s honestly zero point in getting sucked into the messy internal drama over in Ukraine (at least not on PŽK), because you can just find some rational counter-argument for absolutely anything someone says. It’s a total wash. The real issue is whether the moderation rules are actually being applied fairly to everyone—specifically when it comes to shutting down all that spam where people try to draw ridiculous parallels to wars with Klingons or Romulans. Honestly, those sci-fi comparisons are being used way too easily as "arguments" to justify whatever side someone is taking.

I already laid out how messy the whole situation in Ukraine actually is. Honestly, if you don't know the ins and outs, it’s nearly impossible to figure out what the actual facts are. But here’s the thing: if you feed these "certain people" the same facts hundreds of times, and they just keep parroting the same debunked nonsense over and over, what do you even have left? It’s just pure propaganda pushing from both sides. You've got these "human bots" flooding the internet with repetitive posts to drown out reality—the reality that people are dying just so guys like Joe Biden’s son, Khodorkovsky, or whoever the hell those players are on the Eastern Ukrainian and Russian sides, can rake in the profit. That’s exactly the point this topic should be about! We should be digging into that. Instead, we get some mindless fanatic obsessed with waving an M53 flag to "help his brothers," and then uses that as an excuse to claim anyone questioning the coup-driven government in Kyiv is just a sympathizer. Total nonsense.

Jack Cook7 said:If someone is praising Hitler as a liberator who brought freedom to Ukraine back in '41 (like that appointed governor of the southern Kherson region who gave a speech to the people of Kherson this May 9th, only to get heckled and pelted with objects), what do you even call that? And how do you describe the authorities who appointed him or continue to tolerate him? Let's not get bogged down in the weeds—there's a whole separate thread for the Ukraine situation.

Well, in that case, there really is a valid reason to call someone a Nazi, especially since he actually declared himself as such. Honestly, my first instinct would be to just call him an idiot, but I think that might fly against the rules here since it counts as an insult...🤷

Jack Cook7 said:I pointed out earlier just how messy things are in Ukraine. It’s tough to make a call on the actual facts without knowing the ins and outs. But if these same "facts" are repeated hundreds of times to certain individuals, and they just keep parroting the same disputed claims over and over, what's left? It's just propaganda machines on both sides. They use a sea of repetitive "human bot" posts to drown out reality—the reality that people are dying just to line the pockets of folks like Joe Biden's son, Khodorkovsky, or whoever those guys are on the Eastern Ukrainian and Russian sides. That's exactly the point this thread should be tackling. Instead, we get some mindless extremist waving an M53 flag to "help his brothers," and then everyone who questions the coup-driven government in Kyiv gets labeled a sympathizer for those extremists.

I totally agree with your point. This thread needs to be cleared of all the noise—the extremists, the communists, the Nazis—only then could we have a real academic debate. But let's be honest, that's pretty unrealistic.

What you're describing is basically a perfect example of how modern media handles topics, and honestly, a forum acts just like a medium. That's why it ends up like this.

I wish I didn't have to wade through the same old relativism and historical revisionism—the kind of stuff where people say, "Three hundred years ago, we were using forks while they were eating with their hands" 🙂 just to try and find a single shred of useful information in this ocean of posts. 🤷

Well, goldenowl73 is right; it’s just a fact. Some pro-Russia types treat this thread like a personal diary. For instance, just recently I counted 8 posts from one guy on one page and another 6 on the next, all without a single link—just his endless opinions. Blah. There are actual blogs for that. Plus, the same guy explicitly stated he doesn't care what I think, which basically confirms it's perfect blog material.
Another person keeps using the word "hunta." Given there's a legitimate government over there, that term has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Then you have people replying to each other like they're buddies on Facebook.
If myself and Practix didn't show up, the only pro-Ukraine person left would be Collins, whom you've all labeled as "ignorant" a hundred times over.
I have to admit, like many others, I once thought about staying away entirely. It feels like this thread could just as easily be renamed "Pro-Russia" or "Glory to Putin," or whatever else suits your mood.
Calling it anything else besides aggression is a stretch; that's the only way to describe the situation in this topic.
If you want to be left alone, fine, no problem. Just keep posting twisted Russian propaganda and inaccurate translations (like that nonsense about 9000 hryvnia in three months).
But
the thing that sticks with me is something I read somewhere stating this is actually the goal of Russian propaganda—to occupy every internet information niche and drive people away from forums through obnoxious behavior.
Well, I'm not backing down. See ya around. 🙂)))))))

hiddenrider66 said:Look, Rocky is spot on, it’s just a reality at this point. A certain subset of the pro-Russia crowd treats this thread like their own personal diary; for instance, I recently counted eight posts on one page and another six on the next where there wasn't a single link provided—just endless personal opinions. Honestly, if you want to vent like that, go start a blog, because he explicitly stated he doesn't care what I think, which makes it the perfect venue for a blog.
Another type constantly uses the word "junta." Given that there is a legitimate government in place over there, using that term is totally disconnected from the actual situation.
Some people are even chiming in as if they were all old friends hanging out on Facebook.
If Practice and I don't show up here, the only ones left defending the pro-Kremlin side would be Collins, whom you guys have labeled "dimwitted" about a hundred times already.
I have to admit, much like many others felt, I actually thought about staying away entirely because this whole Ukraine topic could easily just be renamed "Pro-Russia" or "Glory to Putin," or whatever suits your narrative better.
Calling it aggression is the only way to accurately describe the state of affairs in this thread.
If you want to be left alone, fine by me, just keep posting distorted Russian propaganda and those wildly inaccurate translations (like that nonsense about 9,000 hryvnia for three months).
But
The thing that keeps me here is the idea I read somewhere that this is actually a core part of Russian propaganda—occupying every online information niche and then using obnoxious behavior on forums to drive everyone else away.
So, I'm not backing down. See you around. 🙂)))))))

Saying Rocky is right isn't stating a fact; it's just your opinion.
I'm not so arrogant as to claim I'm always right, let alone that my view is an objective fact.
Claiming something is an absolute fact pretty much kills any chance of having a real discussion about it.

I do agree that people should probably exercise some self-censorship regarding the word "junta." It was catchy and fitting at the start, but now it's just getting tedious.
It's like how we'd kick Nazis out of a game, unless they were being mentioned specifically in relation to an event involving Nazi glorification by one of the sides or something similar.
A lot of these are just emotional hooks being thrown out by one side.
Then you have the other side with their various extremists and radicals.
As for the legality or legitimacy of the government, I won't go there; we've already exhausted that debate in this thread.

Regarding the whole "blogging" thing, I recall an example from your side that felt less like a political blog and more like a music blog:😁:



Jesus did mention something about the speck in your own eye versus the log in someone else's, didn't He?

Don't get me wrong, though—your posts aren't bothering me at all.

Don't let them get to you. Of course we'll keep reading; I have no idea why you'd think anyone actually wants you to stop posting.🙂

hiddenrider66 said:Well, I guess Rocky is right, that's just how it is. A certain segment of the pro-Russia crowd treats this thread like their own personal blog—for instance, just the other day, I counted 8 posts on one page and another 6 on the next without a single link to back them up, just endless opinions. Blah, blah... there are actual blogs for that, really. Plus, the same guy claimed he doesn't care what I think—which, honestly, is exactly why you'd write a blog.
Some others constantly throw around the word "hunta." Given that there's a legitimate government there, using that term is just... off.
Some people here act like they're all buddies on Facebook.
If Practice and I don't show up, the only ones left defending the pro-Ukraine side would be Collins, who you guys have labeled "dim-witted" a hundred times over.
I have to admit, like many others felt, I thought about just staying away entirely because this "Ukraine" thread could easily be renamed "Pro-Russia" or "Glory to Putin," or whatever suits your mood better.
Calling it aggression is pretty much the only way to describe the situation in this topic.
If you want to be left alone, fine, no problem—just keep posting skewed Russian propaganda and inaccurate translations (like that bit about 9,000 hryvnia in three months).
But
the thing that keeps me here is something I read somewhere—that this is actually part of the Russian propaganda playbook: occupy all the online information niches and then use obnoxious behavior on forums to drive everyone else away.
So, I'm not backing down. See ya around.🙂)))))))

1) You seem incapable of grasping that among those labeled pro-Russian, there are also pro-Ukrainian people—meaning most of the folks you call "pro-Russian" actually just sympathize with the Ukrainian people and what happened to them, which was a coup orchestrated by the American directorate.
Supporting Russia doesn't automatically mean being against Ukraine, at least not in the minds of pro-American trolls. And supporting Russia doesn't mean endorsing every single thing Russia does.

2) Regimes that seize power through force or coups/military takeovers are called—well, juntas. Yeah, juntas. Usually, people use it for military juntas, but in this context, the term fits perfectly. The only thing separating the current Ukrainian government from having democracy imported via bombs from American bombers is how well they play along—basically, how much they're willing to cater to the whims of the bosses in the White House. Otherwise, in any other reality, they would have been bombed months ago.

3) Michael Collins—how would you describe a man with a concrete sarcophagus around his head, similar to the one at Chernobyl, that even the most aggressive arguments in the universe can't penetrate? An adolescent without a life of his own who churns out 12,000 posts a year on this forum (under the Kyle Reese clone, he managed over 12,000 posts in his first year—that's 1,000 a month, or over 30 a day), a guy pretending he has a life, studies, or a girlfriend; a guy who trolls at least 6,000 of those 12,000 posts while the rest are just top-tier nonsense he repeated last year, this year, and will probably repeat next year? A guy looking for virtual friends and accomplices here, while everyone else rightfully writes him off as an immature kid and—as he called himself—a "forum lunatic"? Because, you know how it goes—if you go to bed with the kids, you wake up wet in the morning, and nobody needs that.
How do you label someone who presents himself as a victim of aggression by the strong against the weak, yet openly supports almost every brutal and illegal act of the strong against the weak over the last twenty years (unless, of course, the aggression is carried out by non-Americans)? How do you label a guy famous for saying he "doesn't support the strategy used in the Vietnam War, but he supports the war itself..." (he meant the war wasn't conducted efficiently enough...). What do you say when someone plays the victim of war, only to talk trash about millions of victims of wars, coups, and military interventions worldwide, simply because those events were organized by his idols—the presidents of the universe, the champions of democracy and freedom?
How do you even label someone who spins one story on one thread and then flips the script entirely on another? It’s like they just bend whatever facts are available to fit some pre-packaged dogma about how infallible America and the West supposedly are. Honestly, what you wrote in the bolded part... I don't know, maybe it's a bit too soft

The only thing that really gets to me is the lack of oversight—I mean, it feels like a child could lose their life on a forum and the social services wouldn't even blink...

Just an example here. I’m just sharing my take like everyone else does—not attacking anyone—yet you all jumped straight to labeling and attacking me. Why? Is this about me, or is it about the moderator, Rocky?
Seriously, am I not allowed to have an opinion here?
Aside from me, who else among the pro-Ukraine crowd—there are only three of us left on this thread, mind you—has actually said anything? Instead, you lot have turned this into a literal witch hunt (thanks, Rocky) in your little echo chamber.
Has anyone else supporting Ukraine actually called their opponent a small-minded brat or suggested they need therapy?
Anyway, I get it. Truth hurts, and clearly, you guys prefer a private club where you can vent about your personal biases without anyone disrupting the vibe. I'll head over to the Russia thread for a while so I don't get in your way. Best.
btw @Zachary Torres81/">@@Zachary Torres81 - if you hadn't posted those certain Kremlin-style Russian images—you know the ones—I wouldn't have posted those hits either. I only did it as a direct response to your post. Provocation breeds provocation.

hiddenrider66 said:Look, Rock is totally right—it’s just the truth. Some of the pro-Russia crowd treats this thread like their own personal diary. For instance, just the other day I saw someone list eight posts on one page and six more on another without even providing a single link; it was just their raw opinion. Blah, blah. If you want to vent, go start a blog! Plus, that same guy actually told me he doesn't care what I think, which pretty much confirms it—perfect for a blog.
Then you've got others constantly throwing around the word "hunta." Given there's a legitimate government there, that term makes zero sense.
Some people here act like they're chatting with buddies on Facebook.
If myself and Practice didn't show up, the only pro-Ukraine person left would be Collins, whom you guys have labeled "ignorant" a hundred times already.
I gotta admit, just like a lot of others felt, I thought about quitting too because this whole "Ukraine" thread could easily just be renamed "Pro-Russia" or "Glory to Putin," or whatever suits your vibe better.
Calling it aggression is basically the only way to describe the state of this topic.
If you want to be left alone, fine by me, but all you'll get is twisted Russian propaganda and total nonsense translations (like that ridiculous bit about 9,000 hryvnia for three months).
But
here's what keeps me going: I read somewhere that this is exactly what Russian propaganda aims for—taking over every online information niche and driving people away from the conversation through obnoxious behavior on forums.
Well, I'm not backing down. See ya around 🙂)))))))

I'm the one who brought up the idea of a "hunta that staged a coup and seized power in Kyiv" to the Ukraine thread.

On one side, people were correcting me saying it should be a "military junta," while on the other, they argued that "hunta" implies a military coup, and since Turchynov and Yatsenyuk aren't military men, it wasn't accurate.

To me, "hunta" is the perfect way to describe who moved into the halls of the Senate in Kyiv back on March 1st. I laid out my reasoning in the thread.

As for paramilitary groups, that's also true. This illegal coup-driven government ("hunta") in Kyiv declared new military units called the "National Guard," and then these independent "Volunteer Battalions" popped up that are neither part of the regular Ukrainian army nor the National Guard. That is the literal definition of paramilitary formations. And everything else that comes with it.

I was also the first one to call out the "death squads" that started terrorizing Odessa and other places immediately after.

All my posts are verifiable. If anyone has an issue with the facts presented or opinions based on those facts, please, speak up in the thread.

And let's keep the Star Trek nerd debates somewhere else.