Singapore Grand Prix - Sep 25, 2011

redviper32 said:Oh, sure! It’s always the same story—just when they think they’ve finally gained an edge on everyone else, Newey shows up and somehow manages to pull ahead by two full steps. And honestly, it just seems to happen season after season (okay, maybe not *that* many years, but it definitely feels like 😁 to me)

But hey, what can you do? I find myself hoping for a miracle next season just as much as I hope my favorite baseball team won't blow a lead in the bottom of the ninth during the playoffs, though we all know how that usually goes... nothing ever changes. 😬

I guess I just can't help being an optimist. 🙂

2006: Adrian Newey joins Red Bull Racing - 16 points in the season (7 total)
2007 Red Bull Racing - 24 points (5 total)
2008 Red Bull Racing - 29 points (7 total)
2008 Sebastian Vettel in Red Bull Racing - 35 points☕
2009 Red Bull Racing - 153.5 points (2 total)
2009 Sebastian Vettel in Red Bull Racing - 84 points (2 total)

We know the rest; it wasn't even that long ago.🙂

Besides, Ferrari dominated for years, so now it's their turn to sit back for at least a decade. If someone else is going to take the crown from them, I'd much rather it be Williams Racing or McLaren.🙂

When I mentioned Adrian Newey, I was really thinking about the entire Red Bull Racing setup. I mean, Sebastian Vettel’s contribution there is just massive, isn't it? Not just because of how he drives, but also because of all that technical feedback he gives the engineers while working right alongside Adrian Newey. Honestly, if you put Vettel and Fernando Alonso in the same car, I don't even know who I'd put my money on!

As for this whole dominance thing, I'm just not a fan of it, not even when it's Ferrari. It would be so much better if everyone was actually competitive, you know? It sucks when teams get put in a spot where the championship is basically decided by the 6th, 7th, or 8th race of the season. I really think it might be ideal if they let teams do more testing during the season again, just so everyone can stay in the fight and actually compete at their absolute best until the very end.

redviper32 said:When I mentioned Adrian Newey, I was really thinking about the entire Red Bull Racing setup. I mean, Sebastian Vettel’s contribution there is just massive, isn't it? Not just because of how he drives, but also because of all that technical feedback he gives the engineers while working right alongside Adrian Newey. Honestly, if you put Vettel and Fernando Alonso in the same car, I don't even know who I'd put my money on!

As for this whole dominance thing, I'm just not a fan of it, not even when it's Ferrari. It would be so much better if everyone was actually competitive, you know? It sucks when teams get put in a spot where the championship is basically decided by the 6th, 7th, or 8th race of the season. I really think it might be ideal if they let teams do more testing during the season again, just so everyone can stay in the fight and actually compete at their absolute best until the very end.

To be honest, even I'm not enjoying this level of dominance from Vettel.

I agree with everyone, including the point about testing, though I worry about the backlash. Bringing testing back might actually backfire and make the dominance even more obvious and crushing.

stormybadger8 said:2006: Adrian Newey joins Red Bull Racing - 16 points in the season (7 total)
2007 Red Bull Racing - 24 points (5 total)
2008 Red Bull Racing - 29 points (7 total)
2008 Sebastian Vettel in Red Bull Racing - 35 points☕
2009 Red Bull Racing - 153.5 points (2 total)
2009 Sebastian Vettel in Red Bull Racing - 84 points (2 total)

We know the rest; it wasn't even that long ago.🙂

Besides, Ferrari dominated for years, so now it's their turn to sit back for at least a decade. If someone else is going to take the crown from them, I'd much rather it be Williams Racing or McLaren.🙂

Red Bull's massive surge was largely thanks to those huge rule changes, you know? If they hadn't pivoted the regulations like that, there's no way they would have shot up the ranks quite as fast or as aggressively as they did.☕

What kind of dominance are you talking about? McLaren currently has the fastest race car on the grid, so don't blame them when they're being indecisive and failing to capitalize—they’re just wasting time messing around with Lewis...

McLaren this season is looking a lot like Red Bull did last year: drivers crashing into each other, mysterious technical failures... and that blatant favoritism toward a pseudo-number-one driver. It’s the exact same pattern we saw from Red Bull last season.

If Fernando Alonso had a McLaren this good last season, there wouldn't have been any debate about who the champion was.

There's no question Red Bull is the real deal, but the credit goes entirely to Sebastian Vettel. Sure, he had his moments, but overall he drove phenomenally. While everyone else was struggling, he stayed in total control. After last season, I was actually kicking myself because I didn't think he deserved the title, but this year he's made up for it and proven he's top-tier talent.

In my opinion, though, one of the McLaren drivers should have been the champion this season. Vettel's lead looks much larger than it actually was.

Look, as for Vettel's dominance, let's be real—Red Bull Racing's stranglehold on this is pretty obvious if you just look at Mark Webber's results.🤷

And as for McLaren... 👍

I’ve been saying since day one that they would’ve been serious title contenders—maybe even champions—if they’d actually given Jenson Button a shot and treated him like their number one driver. You could see that potential right from the season opener.☕

The only important difference compared to last year is that Ferrari is an even bigger disaster than before, though Alonso is driving way better. You can tell by looking at Felipe Massa.😳

Zero podiums in 2011 (best finish was 5th) versus five podiums in 2010 and being close a few other times.

Basically, Alonso is largely responsible for keeping them in the game because he dragged in a mountain of points for McLaren, but even then, Vettel in the Red Bull was just too fast for him to catch up.☕

stormybadger8 said:2006: Adrian Newey joins Red Bull Racing - 16 points in the season (7 total)
2007 Red Bull Racing - 24 points (5 total)
2008 Red Bull Racing - 29 points (7 total)
2008 Sebastian Vettel in Red Bull Racing - 35 points☕
2009 Red Bull Racing - 153.5 points (2 total)
2009 Sebastian Vettel in Red Bull Racing - 84 points (2 total)

We know the rest; it wasn't even that long ago.🙂

Besides, Ferrari dominated for years, so now it's their turn to sit back for at least a decade. If someone else is going to take the crown from them, I'd much rather it be Williams Racing or McLaren.🙂

Look, you really can't just look at it in such a straight line...
For instance, the budget factor plays a massive role in Formula 1...
When they first bought the team, they had to build everything from scratch—get the right people in place, secure the right engines...
And all of that comes with a price tag.
They were constantly building up their capital; in that first season, Red Bull had about $58 million, which then climbed to around $80 million per season... and they maintained that level until, well, 2009, when the budget jumped to $109 million—plus they invested 20% more into developing the race car for 2009 compared to the previous year.
We also shouldn't overlook the compound effect of having that money—I mean, there's a huge difference between dropping $50 million into a team that hasn't found its footing yet versus pouring $110 million into an organization that’s already been finely tuned for a while now.
Having a bigger budget than McLaren is no small feat...
Of course, Vettel played his part, but claiming he was the main driver behind it all feels like a bit of a stretch—especially in today's era of Formula 1.

nimblesurfer17 said:Look, you really can't just look at it in such a straight line...
For instance, the budget factor plays a massive role in Formula 1...
When they first bought the team, they had to build everything from scratch—get the right people in place, secure the right engines...
And all of that comes with a price tag.
They were constantly building up their capital; in that first season, Red Bull had about $58 million, which then climbed to around $80 million per season... and they maintained that level until, well, 2009, when the budget jumped to $109 million—plus they invested 20% more into developing the race car for 2009 compared to the previous year.
We also shouldn't overlook the compound effect of having that money—I mean, there's a huge difference between dropping $50 million into a team that hasn't found its footing yet versus pouring $110 million into an organization that’s already been finely tuned for a while now.
Having a bigger budget than McLaren is no small feat...
Of course, Vettel played his part, but claiming he was the main driver behind it all feels like a bit of a stretch—especially in today's era of Formula 1.

It wasn't the primary reason, whoever told you that 🤦, but damn it, it's not insignificant like some people claim either.☕

This season, he's the one responsible for the results—way more than last year. I don't care what anyone says, he's only got two other podiums this season, and just five third-place finishes in a dominant car where Vettel has 8 wins and 12 total podiums.

If last year's title contender only grabbed 7 podiums in total, the car is the only reason Vettel won the championship. Think whatever you want, 🙄

There's a DRS zone sitting right between turns 5 and 7.

stormybadger8 said:There's a DRS zone sitting right between turns 5 and 7.

Honestly, I saw that coming from a mile away.☕

Are these journalists actually speculating that Jenson Button might move to Ferrari?

Regarding Ferrari, I am quite pleased they intend to utilize these upcoming six races for component testing.
The Ferrari project for next year is being spearheaded by Pat Fry, who stepped in this May to replace technical director Aldo Costa, and his primary objective is to boost the "absolute level of downforce."

In my estimation, however, the root cause of this poor form remains this:

Looking at 2011, there is one specific aspect that mirrors 2009, given that Ferrari failed to enter this season with a superior interpretation of the technical regulations, a feat their rivals managed to achieve.

Starting in 2012, however, the changes will be limited to exhaust systems, which must transition to a conventional design.

One significant innovation should be the introduction of a pull-rod rear suspension, a concept that Ferrari intends to replicate from Red Bull, despite much confusion as to why they did not implement such a thing this year.

"The pull-rod system will allow for a lower, more compact rear end, though it will not appear on the race car until next season," reports The Wall Street Journal. "Over the final six GP weekends this year, Ferrari will be testing both mechanical and aerodynamic components for 2012, even during race weekends."

Brian Campbell36 said:Are these journalists actually speculating that Jenson Button might move to Ferrari?

Regarding Ferrari, I am quite pleased they intend to utilize these upcoming six races for component testing.
The Ferrari project for next year is being spearheaded by Pat Fry, who stepped in this May to replace technical director Aldo Costa, and his primary objective is to boost the "absolute level of downforce."

In my estimation, however, the root cause of this poor form remains this:

Looking at 2011, there is one specific aspect that mirrors 2009, given that Ferrari failed to enter this season with a superior interpretation of the technical regulations, a feat their rivals managed to achieve.

Starting in 2012, however, the changes will be limited to exhaust systems, which must transition to a conventional design.

One significant innovation should be the introduction of a pull-rod rear suspension, a concept that Ferrari intends to replicate from Red Bull, despite much confusion as to why they did not implement such a thing this year.

"The pull-rod system will allow for a lower, more compact rear end, though it will not appear on the race car until next season," reports The Wall Street Journal. "Over the final six GP weekends this year, Ferrari will be testing both mechanical and aerodynamic components for 2012, even during race weekends."

Do you have a link for the pull-rod info? They spent so much time bragging about that push-rod suspension setup before the season started...

steelmaker83 said:Do you have a link for the pull-rod info? They spent so much time bragging about that push-rod suspension setup before the season started...

They really doubled down on that single-keel design for a long time, even while everyone else was making the switch over to zero-keel suspension. Now, it seems like having it is just the standard default for everyone.😉

If Jenson Button moves to Ferrari, I'm done with Formula 1

Michael Lee4 said:If Jenson Button moves to Ferrari, I'm done with Formula 1

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

mistybear87 said:🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Are you kidding me? What kind of legacy is that? You think having "drove for Ferrari" on your resume actually means anything? Look at the likes of Rubens Barrichello, Felipe Massa, or Max Mosley. Those aren't careers, man. Being a number two driver for Ferrari is just a fast track to being irrelevant. 🙄

Michael Lee4 said:Are you kidding me? What kind of legacy is that? You think having "drove for Ferrari" on your resume actually means anything? Look at the likes of Rubens Barrichello, Felipe Massa, or Max Mosley. Those aren't careers, man. Being a number two driver for Ferrari is just a fast track to being irrelevant. 🙄

just a bunch of glorified assistants who ended up with zero titles to show for it☕

Michael Lee4 said:If Jenson Button moves to Ferrari, I'm done with Formula 1

Are you really going to sit there and curse the days when you were busy worshiping his greatness in that silver race car?

Michael Lee4 said:If Jenson Button moves to Ferrari, I'm done with Formula 1

Maybe you'll end up becoming a Ferrari fan? Don't act like that's impossible...

Michael Lee4 said:Are you kidding me? What kind of legacy is that? You think having "drove for Ferrari" on your resume actually means anything? Look at the likes of Rubens Barrichello, Felipe Massa, or Max Mosley. Those aren't careers, man. Being a number two driver for Ferrari is just a fast track to being irrelevant. 🙄

Look, I'm not trying to start anything; it’s just funny watching the McLaren crowd act like they've been betrayed on every single level because of Button. 🤣🤣 🤣