Die-hard Ultras / Hardcore Supporters

Gerald Wilson8 said:Reading this piece about the Liverpool FC fans over in Aleksinac... I'm speechless.
http://www.hrhb.info/content.php?r=2...ja-ne-prestaje........

🙏🙏🙏🙏

John Perez13 said:The DVD is a massive undertaking, and honestly, it demands way more commitment and free time than most people realize. Plus, there's the question of whether it’s even worth it financially. In this day and age, I think it makes more sense to just drop one high-quality video on YouTube—something like "Yankees vs. Dodgers (choreography by John Perez13)"—that 200,000 people will watch over the next year. It beats sinking $15 per unit into a "DVD project" that maybe a few hundred fans will actually buy, while thousands of others just pirate it. Even if the disclaimer at the start says every dollar goes back to the organization... $0.00

Best,

Well, look, I see things a little differently. I don't think it's all about the money; it's about those priceless memories. Five or ten years from now, you can pop in a disc, watch an entire season, and relive all those great moments, both big and small games. Without this, I'm certain we lose out on documenting so many matches—stuff like the minor league matchups or random away games—that people really only watch once and then they're gone.

I agree that it requires much more time, but if we waited until the end of the season to release the DVD, we'd have plenty of time to make it even higher quality.

And finally, I think those hundred or so people who actually care enough to buy it are more important than the 200,000 random viewers on YouTube... though I bet way more people would buy the original if they could.

That's just my take, and I know I'm probably not the only one thinking this way.😉

John Perez13 said:A DVD is a massive undertaking. It demands way more time and effort than people realize. Plus, does it even make sense financially? Honestly, wouldn't it be better to just drop one high-quality video on YouTube—something like "Yankees vs. Dodgers (choreography by John Perez13)"—that gets 200,000 views in a year? Why sink $15 into a "DVD project" that a few hundred fans will buy while thousands more just pirate it? Even if you claim every cent goes back to the Raiders organization, it's still a gamble. $0.00

Cheers

🙂

I bought one, but let's face it: people are broke. We're struggling just to pay for gas and tickets for every away game. DVDs naturally fall to the bottom of the priority list.😢

Maybe the Raiders need to implement some austerity measures until things pick up again.🙂

silentotter17 said:Look, I see things a bit differently. It isn’t all about the money—it’s about those priceless memories you build along the way. In five or ten years, you’re going to want to pull out an old disc, binge-watch a whole season, and just relive those moments, whether they were massive championship games or some random Tuesday night matchup against a team like the Brewers or the Mariners. That’s how you ensure you’ve actually built a legacy worth looking back on. People are only looking at one thing. For God's sake.

I agree that we need more time—but honestly, if they just held off on releasing the DVD until the end of the season, they’d have way more breathing room to actually get it right. Wouldn't a higher quality product be worth the wait?

To wrap things up, I honestly think those few hundred people—who actually bothered to pay because they give a damn about supporting the work—matter way more than the 200,000 random views on YouTube. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm thinking exactly the same way—even though I know damn well I'm probably the only one who sees it this way.😉

I completely agree with you—we need to start prioritizing the fans over the general public. Isn't that where the real heart of the game lies?

silentotter17 said:In the end, I think those hundred people who actually care enough to buy it matter more than the 200,000 views on YouTube...

That’s just my take, though I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking it.😉

🤣

Sure, why don't you just go borrow 50 DVDs from $17 and try selling them to the crew at the away game in 😍?

silentotter17 said:Look, I see things differently. It isn't just about the cash. It's about creating memories that money can't buy.

Maybe you have that luxury because $15,000 isn't coming straight out of your wallet. Large-scale projects require capital. And when you ask for capital, you have to justify the expense. We aren't the Yankees; we can't just hand someone a $2 million contract and expect them to go jog through Central Park.😁 Right now, a DVD collection is a low priority compared to other needs.😉

silentotter17 said:Priceless memories. In five or ten years, you'll be able to pop in that DVD, watch the whole season, and relive all those great moments—big games and small ones alike.

You don't need a DVD for that. Just pull up YouTube and everything is right there. From the atmosphere at the Bronx in '88 to the Lakers in 2012... it's all available to anyone with an internet connection.🙂

silentotter17 said:You’re definitely including plenty of filler games—stuff like minor league matchups that people watch once and forget.

I agree we should take more time, but if we waited until the end of the season to release the DVD, we'd have much more time to actually make it high quality.

Processing, editing, and encoding video for a physical DVD is not the same as uploading to YouTube. To make one decent DVD, you're looking at at least four months of work, putting in several hours every single day. I don't have that kind of free time. I'm 31 years old. I have a job, a family, and a hundred other responsibilities that I didn't have two years ago when I was making DVDs like it was my full-time gig. Life happens.🤷

John Brown30 said:🙂

I bought one, but honestly, people just don't have the cash. We're barely scraping by covering gas and tickets for every away game, so those DVDs naturally fall to the bottom of the priority list.😢

Whatever. The Raiders probably need to implement some recession measures until things actually pick up again.🙂

Spend less at the bars.

John Perez13 said:, I'm 31, got the job, the family... Life happens, 🤷

😲😲😲

If you were actually a real NFL Ultra, you wouldn't even be around after the game. What's the point of those years anyway? ☕

🤣

John Perez13 said:Look, I don't exactly have all day to sit around here. I'm 31, I've got a job, a family, and a million other responsibilities piling up... things I didn't have to deal with two years ago when my biggest concern was burning DVDs like it was my full-time job. Life happens... damn. 🤷

Just hire some college students instead. They couldn't care less about the Fed anyway. 😁

John Brown30 said:🙂

I went ahead and bought it, but honestly, I just... ugh.People just don't have the cash right now.Honestly, we’re out here scraping together enough cash just to cover gas and tickets every single time we hit the road for an away game, so naturally, buying new DVDs just falls to the bottom of the priority list. 😢

I mean, honestly, I think even the Chicago Blackhawks fans need some serious disciplinary measures put in place until things actually start looking up around here. 🙂

People have plenty of cash, they’re just being total cowards, honestly—they’d much rather blow money on five beers at a local pub than actually back an original project like what WOB or any other group of die-hard supporters put together. Think about the sheer amount of time and effort that goes into this stuff; someone had to step up, leave their wife and kids behind, grab a camera, edit everything, and pull it all together... it's massive work. But people? They're just flakes, plain and simple, and that's exactly what they are. They've always got money lying around for overpriced streetwear, hitting the betting lines, or chasing whatever cheap thrills they find on the weekend, and guess what? That money comes straight from us fans. It hits the whole community, including me, because I was right there handing over my last few bucks to support the stands and the group, even though God knows I could've used that money for a lot more important things.

Whatever, we’re all neglecting our personal lives for the sake of being fans anyway. No need to take things to such an extreme. 😉

I wouldn't go so far as to call it extreme... I mean, sure, we give it our all... at least some of us do... but look, just take a hypothetical where a thousand people show up to every single game and chip in $3.25 a month... how much money is that actually? Is that even a massive amount of cash $3.25 every month? Honestly, it’s nothing. It’s not even close to being "extreme," it’s just that people don't give a damn and they clearly don't respect the effort being put in.

It’s not even $70 a year, yet people always find some reason to dodge it. I guess that's just how people are. 😁

John Brown30 said:Let’s be honest, aren't we all neglecting our personal lives to some degree just to keep up with our fandom? It really isn't necessary to take things to such an extreme level. 😉

Honestly, we’re all just wasting our time here, aren't we? It feels like we're spinning our wheels and accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Is it really fair to say we're being neglected? When you look at the numbers, we’re talking about maybe twenty or thirty people who aren't fully stepping up, and even then, they aren't doing it one hundred percent of the time. Honestly, if I were to suggest that they are only neglecting their responsibilities fifty percent of the time, I think I would actually be overstating the situation.

It seems we simply hold differing perspectives on this matter, as I personally don't view attending a game as an act of neglect. One might choose to frame it as dedicated time set aside for the group and the club outside of match day, but since the vast majority of us enjoy a fair amount of flexibility in our schedules, it rarely ever becomes an actual issue; ultimately, it all comes down to one's own mindset.

placidheron16 said:I’m totally with you there—we should be focusing more on the die-hard fans than the general public.

Lately, I’ve been hearing everyone drone on about 🙂
while other groups were busy building actual subcultures, "we" were just chasing populism and trying to get massive numbers. Now people are finally waking up to it and acting shocked by things they should have seen coming 🙂 though, personally, I don't hold any grudges, and it doesn't really bother me much.
If I have to keep talking to the same ten or sixteen people every single day—and it feels like that's happening here too 🙂
I’ve been sitting here all morning thinking about how those few years the old online forums were active were probably more useful for the existence of the group than, say, twenty years of being some local fan club in a small town—aside from legal fees or money for choreographies, which, honestly, I have no clue what the Chicago Blackhawks fans even use their money for. Back in the early-to-mid 2000s, that kind of funding didn't exist, yet that was when the movement actually gained momentum because people finally opened their eyes. Good communication and a window to the outside world—that’s where the real strength came from. It created a handful of crews whose members are still the heart and soul of the stands today, providing a sense of identity for the younger kids who want to prove themselves on the streets and in the stadium 🙂
Back when I started, you moved from the street straight to the bleachers. You had someone to look up to, a real cohesive group—it wasn't just some half-hearted "singing a little, playing a little" nonsense that pulls you in. But when there isn't a core group, when there aren't incidents or that rebellious spirit that attracts young people, you don't get crews on the street. It's 2012; everything is online now, so you might as well try it that way.
As far as I can recall, Tyler Thomas15 once mentioned a long time ago that he could practically write a thesis on this whole thing 🙂
For those specific groups ( 😛 ) that have had a clear ideology and a mindset passed down through generations from the streets to the stands, they probably don't even need the internet. Take certain hardcore European crews—they don't have websites, but they have deep roots in hundreds upon hundreds of people on the street, and clearly, they don't need anything else. But for the most disorganized "organized" group in the world, which somehow manages to have thousands and thousands of members—likely the largest membership out there—online presence is obviously pure gold 🙂
But right now, it's just a seesaw—50/50 left and right, up and down. Instead of deciding *what* they are, they're struggling to decide if they even *exist*.
But whatever, screw it. If they can't decide, we'll just keep "singing a little and playing a little" 😍
Anyway, Lucky, see you around somewhere, my first love.🙂

Matthew Foster8 said:the most disorganized organized group on the planet 🙂

🤣🤣🤣 I’ve been saying this for years.

The organization is pure gold. 😉

Matthew Foster8 said:I’ve been hearing a lot of noise lately about this—everyone seems to have an opinion on it. 🙂
While others were busy building organized supporter groups, "we" decided to bank everything on populism and sheer numbers instead. We chased the masses—and now that people have finally had their fill, they’re acting surprised by things that should have been obvious from the start. Why the shock? 🙂 Look, I don't personally hold any grudges, nor does any of this really bother me that much.
I can't just spend my whole life talking to the same ten or sixteen people—it’s time I shared a few thoughts here, too. 🙂
I’ve been sitting here all morning ruminating on something—how those few years when the forum was actually active were arguably more vital to the group's existence than the entire twenty-year history of the supporters' club at the local stadium. Aside from the obvious stuff like legal fees or funding massive choreographies—honestly, I have no idea where the money even goes half the time—that digital era did more for us. Back in the early to mid-2000s, we didn't have that kind of capital. We couldn't just buy our way into influence. But that was exactly when things shifted—when people finally opened their eyes and started paying attention. That platform provided essential communication and a window to the outside world; it was the foundation for everything we see now. It gave rise to several core groups—individuals who remain the very heart and edge of the North stands today. It offered a sense of mindset for the younger generation—teaching them how to carry themselves both on the streets and in the stands. If you want to prove yourself, that's where it started. 🙂
When I first started showing up to games, you actually had someone to look up to—there was a real sense of community. It wasn't some half-hearted effort where people would sing for five minutes and then drift off; there was a genuine pull to the group. But when that core foundation disappears? What’s left to draw the younger crowd in? Without a cohesive group to rally around, you lose the incidents, the rebellion, and everything else that drives youth culture. We're looking at 2012 now—everything is digital anyway—so if there isn't a physical presence to grab your attention, you might as well just stay online.
If I recall correctly—and I usually do—Tyler Thomas15 actually mentioned once, quite a while back, that he could probably put together a full-blown white paper on this entire mess. 🙂
As for those groups— 😛 Groups that have possessed a clear ideology and a specific street mentality from day one—passed down through generations from the stands to the pavement—probably don't even need an online presence. Take those Naples fans, for example; they don't bother with a website, yet they have deep-rooted connections in hundreds upon hundreds of people out on the street. They clearly don't need it. Meanwhile, you have the most unorganized "organized" group on the planet—thousands upon thousands of them, supposedly the largest membership base in existence—and somehow, that’s considered pure gold. 🙂
And now we’re looking at a seesaw—a perfect 50/50 split between left and right, up and down—waiting to see if the NFL Ultras can actually make a choice. Or rather, is it even possible for them to decide?
Who cares? Even if things don't go our way, we still have this—a little singing, a little playing. 😍
In any case, stay lucky—I’ll see you around somewhere, my first love. 🙂

The Chicago Blackhawks fans have lost their identity—at least in my eyes. We’ve essentially devolved into nothing more than a crowd looking for a good time. If we ever want to matter again, we need to go back to square one. We need a clear ideology: who are we, what do we stand for, and exactly what kind of group do we actually want to be?

I’m telling you guys, you’re being way too hard on yourselves with these analyses. Look, we’re always freaking self-critical, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but we keep swinging between two insane extremes.
One minute it’s all "we finally stepped up over the last couple of seasons," and then suddenly—boom—it's "we completely collapsed, we need to tear everything down and start from scratch." How does that shift happen in, what, five years tops?😁

The hardest part? Keeping up with the Chicago Blackhawks fans. 😍

Can someone please give me a rational explanation for why four flares are being tossed onto the pitch when the club is practically teetering on the edge of bankruptcy? I mean, when our chief executive has to practically beg big-time lenders like JPMorgan Chase just to secure a line of credit, does this really make sense? Is it because some random guy on the street told us we’re the "good guys," so now we’re flashing messages like HHO and throwing pyrotechnics? Who exactly are we trying to impress here—HHO or the local hooligans? Are we honestly becoming just as insecure and obsessed as those other crews? To be honest, seeing those flares and that message today was a massive embarrassment for the Chicago Blackhawks fans. If we’re going to act like such hardcore rebels, shouldn't we be throwing those flares at the owner's face or toward his penthouse instead of wasting them against the club's empty budget?