Formula 1 Indian Grand Prix - Buddh International Circuit (Oct 30, 2011)

stormybadger8 said:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95863

Interesting enough, Mark Webber thinks Massu shouldn't have been penalized.

Looking at the actual incident, I agree—he shouldn't have been. It just happens to look like Mass was intentionally closing the door to force a crash, even if Lewis Hamilton drove in there like an absolute idiot.🤷

Mass was on his racing line. How is that "closing the door"? Hamilton charged in like a maniac, Mass didn't budge, and they collided.

Why should Mass have moved? Hamilton didn't even get halfway alongside him. Who does Hamilton think he is, thinking everyone else on the track has to move out of his way?

Hamilton is a racer, sure, but this isn't a video game. He drives like he's still in a go-kart. The guy has never actually matured enough for an F1 car.

The tragic part is that his rookie season was actually his best. Since then, it's been a steady decline. What he's shown lately is more suited for NASCAR. That’s the plain truth, and it's pretty pathetic for someone who acts like he's the greatest driver alive.

steelmaker83 said:Felipe Massa was on his line. What a pathetic move. Hamilton just charged in like an idiot, Massa didn't budge, and they collided.

Why should Massa have moved? Hamilton didn't even get halfway alongside the car. Who does Hamilton think he is, thinking everyone has to clear the track for him?.......

Look, Hamilton's a racer, but this isn't a video game. In his head, he’s still driving go-karts. The guy just never grew up for F1.

The saddest part? His rookie season was actually his best. It's been downhill ever since. Honestly, what he's shown lately is more suited for NASCAR. That's the truth......

All five points are spot on, but you can see in the footage that Massa looks over at him a few times and keeps heading right for him, knowing a crash is coming.

I think that's the main reason for the penalty.

The only thing I disagree with is if he actually intended to do it—because if he did, he botched it. If you're going to ram someone, you do it so Hamilton gets forced off the track or you both go out. You don't just let Hamilton walk away clean.

Like a Button style 🙂
That would have been the proper way to handle Hamilton's stupidity.

Lewis Hamilton didn't just dive in like some total amateur, both of them were hitting the apex at the exact same time, and since Massa veered right into Hamilton's line, you can't even use the racing line excuse to justify it 😉

hollowgull5 said:Was Hamilton really driving like a complete amateur? I don't think so. It wasn't some reckless move; both drivers were diving into that corner at the exact same time. Honestly, once you see how Felipe Massa veered right toward Lewis Hamilton, the whole "racing line" excuse just falls apart. How can you even justify that line when he’s cutting someone off like that? 😉

Track limits or not, I think what really matters is that point Herbert made. It’s pretty clear that Massa knew exactly where Hamilton was positioned; he knew a collision was imminent. If he had just widened his line slightly, he would have left enough room to avoid the whole mess entirely. In my view, the penalty they handed out was completely justified.

stormybadger8 said:All five points are true and they definitely hold up, but you can clearly see in the footage that Felipe Massa looks over at him several times and heads straight toward him anyway, knowing a collision is coming.

I think that’s the main reason for the penalty.

The only catch is that if he actually intended to do it, he executed it miserably. If his goal was to ram him, he should have done it in a way that sent Lewis Hamilton off the track or took them both out, rather than just failing and being the only one to lose out.

Take a Button style move, for example. 🙂
That would have been an appropriate response to Hamilton's stupidity.

Felipe Massa knew Hamilton was there, that part is accurate, but he stayed on his racing line assuming Hamilton would back off.

I don't think Felipe Massa intentionally rammed him to cause a crash; he probably just thought, "Forget this, I'm going for it." Hamilton obviously didn't back off, and they collided.

The stewards penalized Felipe Massa simply because it was obvious he knew where the other guy was, and then a racing incident occurred—one where Hamilton shouldn't have been penalized—so they hit Massa just to show they aren't playing favorites with the driver they're protecting.

Felipe Massa didn't leave enough room, but that has NEVER, ever been grounds for a penalty before.

This was a pure racing incident where both drivers share the blame, and absolutely nobody should have been penalized.

It's laughable to me that when Hamilton messed up again, they punished the other guy just because Hamilton wasn't the sole culprit.

Pathetic.

stormybadger8 said:All five points are absolutely valid—honestly, you can see it right there in the footage where Felipe Massa glances over at him a few times before moving in, clearly knowing a collision was coming.

In my opinion, that’s actually the core reason behind the penalty.

The only real "what if" is this: if he truly intended to cause that wreck, he executed it terribly. I mean, if the goal was to take someone out, he should have made sure Lewis Hamilton ended up off the track or just took them both out entirely—instead, he just ended up losing his own race.
Think about it in a 🙂Button style
way. That was a pretty fitting response to some of Hamilton's questionable moves earlier.

But wait, didn't Massa end up with a massive thirty-second lead that got completely wiped out because of that pit lane penalty? 🤷

steelmaker83 said:Herbert penalized Massa purely because it was obvious Massa knew what was coming. It was a legitimate racing incident where Lewis Hamilton shouldn't have been touched, but they went after Massa just to prove they aren't out to get the driver

Massa didn't leave enough room, sure, but that has NEVER—and I mean never—been a reason to hand out a penalty before.

That’s the sixth incident involving those two this season.
It feels pretty fitting that Massa finally gets slapped with a penalty too, just once.

If you ask me, both drivers messed up. They could have both played it a bit smarter and just let it go.
At the end of the day, Lewis Hamilton lost more here; he needed those points way more than anyone else.

Roger Wright94 said:This marks the sixth incident involving these two this season.
It’s only fair that Massa gets penalized at least once too.

In my view, both drivers completely botched the situation. They could have easily played it more conservatively and both made it through.
Ultimately, when you look at the fallout, Lewis Hamilton is the one who lost out; he needed those points more than anyone.

Like I said, there was an opening to penalize Massa, and they took it.

As for the loss, neither driver should care about a single point right now—it’s practically irrelevant at this stage of the season.

Bring on the seventh incident.

stormybadger8 said:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95863

Interesting. Mark Webber thinks the penalty for Felipe Massa was unnecessary.

Based on the actual contact? I agree. But isn't it just how it looks? Like Massa intentionally shut the door to force a collision? Even if Lewis Hamilton drove in there like a complete amateur.🤷

If any other two drivers were involved, there wouldn't have been a penalty. I'm certain of it. I mean, was anyone penalized for the Alonso-Button incident in Canada?

Jenson Button honestly just got lucky walking away from that Canadian race with the result he did... First, he knocks Fernando Alonso out of the race (though I know people are calling it a racing incident), then he spins Mark Webber around for a full 360... and to top it all off, he pulls that sneaky move where he plays the victim, acting like he didn't see anything or knew nothing while basically forcing Lewis Hamilton into a corner to close the door on him.🙂

They were perfectly level at the braking point, but I guess Lewis Hamilton had to brake early because he was on the dirty side of the track using all of the inside line. It gave him some room, so I'm not sure why people are blaming him; it felt like a decent chance, though maybe not a guaranteed one. 🙂

It’s kind of like when Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton were racing in China during the first turn... Jenson barely even made contact with half of his car against him, but once Jenson saw how much space he was taking up, he just went wider. 😉 Still, comparing Jenson Button to Felipe Massa in terms of how "cooperative" they are during a race is always an interesting thought. 😬

Interesting stuff. Out of 88 NASCAR races, Lewis Hamilton has been involved in 37 incidents.😳

I didn't bother checking every single one on the list, but I counted 37 races in this table. That's a massive number, honestly.😲

stormybadger8 said:Interesting stuff. Across 88 NASCAR races, Lewis Hamilton was involved in 37 total incidents.😳

I didn't check every single one they listed, but I counted 37 races in this table. That is definitely a massive number.😲

What an absolute theft by that racing news site. Keith from f1fanatica wrote the entire text and did all the analysis, and these hacks just ripped it off.

I'll reach out to Keith and let him know this is happening. It isn't the first time, and frankly, the laziness and lack of ethics here is infuriating.

Stay far away from that site.

crimsonstag84 said:They were perfectly lined up at the braking point. Hamilton braked early because he was on the dirty side of the track and used all the inside line space. Why blame him? It was a decent chance, even if not a guaranteed one. 🙂

The overtake was basically "if the other guy doesn't move, someone's going to crash." Just like most of Hamilton's other moves lately. 😁

Hamilton enters the corner faster, and he's doing it over the dirty part of the track. Naturally, nowhere near the racing line. If the other driver doesn't yield the line, a collision is almost inevitable.

He pulled the exact same stunt at the British Grand Prix. Only there, the App factor was even more intense. A much "heavier" corner, aggressive braking, zero chance to back out if the driver ahead closes the door. And yeah, that driver was Felipe Massa.

At the end of the day, IMO, it's just a racing incident. What should they do? Ban "closing the door"? That would be ridiculous.

Hamilton thinks he’s untouchable—like he can just do whatever he wants—and honestly, last time Massa was involved, I think he got the short end of the stick with that penalty.
What else was Massa supposed to do besides watch his mirrors and keep an eye on this "wildcard"? Even when I'm behind the wheel, I don't let some ego-driven personality dictate my driving; if someone slams into me, it's on them because they were the one trailing.
At the end of the day, how would Hamilton have even cleared that corner if he hadn't taken out Massa? He really should've hit the brakes—it just seems like, up until now, he's found it easier to just wreck his competition rather than actually racing them fairly.

🙂 🙂 🙂

🍿

Michael Lee4 said:🙂 🙂 🙂

🍿

You've been pretty 🙂 lately, you doing okay?

stormybadger8 said:Pretty wild stuff—looking at 88 Formula 1 races and finding 37 total incidents involving Lewis Hamilton😳

I didn't sit here and double-check every single one they listed, but I counted 37 races in this table, and man, that is a massive number😲

Holy crap, that’s basically like having some kind of incident in every single race over two full seasons😲

🙂

stormybadger8 said:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95863

Funny enough, Webber thinks that penalty for Massa was totally uncalled for.

🙂

I guess we finally figured out who the last lone survivor left on the grid actually is.☕

Douglas Parker61 said:You've been posting a lot of 🙂 lately, you doing okay?

Who said I was crying? I'm just messing with these losers who are still whining about the last race.☕