New fan laws: What do we think?

Robert Davis12 said:Look, we are already neck-deep in this mess, and if we don't take some kind of decisive action, we won't even be around in a year or two... What should we actually do? Honestly, I have no clue—and since I don't know, I’m certainly not qualified to lecture anyone, nor is it my intention to do so—I just want to say that it is high time we set our personal grievances aside and try to achieve something together... Because what is being proposed right now—this whole "incognito" home supporter thing—is absolute garbage. Are we really going to celebrate the "success" of having 17, 45, or 97 of us sneaking into Kranjčević, an apartment complex, or Aldo Drosina unnoticed and scattered? Posting photos just to prove we were there, as if we were talking about a recent big game at Yankee Stadium rather than this pathetic excuse for an American league? I'll say it again: I don't know what the solution is, but it has to be something real—even if it means the opposing fans end up standing right next to me on the North Stand...

Exactly. I don't even know anymore; after eleven years of being a regular at games (aside from those 13 months during the boycott), I haven't gone back since that big derby at Dodger Stadium where we were chanting together—mostly because I want my last memory of this to be a good one. It isn't that I've given up, but I've come to realize that the stands aren't necessarily the place where real change happens for our benefit; they are just a place where I can vent my frustration with everything happening in American soccer and with "my" Los Angeles Dodgers, which is easier said than done. This current path leads nowhere, and there is no theory suggesting that me calling the club or signing up for lists to get vouchers for home or away games is going to fix anything.

Elections! 🙂

Is anyone actually capable of answering why we’ve even reached this point? Why is the crackdown so intense—and why is there zero freedom left when it comes to traveling for away games? And what's the deal with these vouchers and all this other nonsense? Just... why? Please, for once, don't be idiots and just reply with "I'm writing" or some other mindless filler...

If you want a perfect example of what "unity" looks like—or rather, the complete lack of it—when we try to fight back against repression, just look at the thread about the US National Team on this forum. It’ll make everything crystal clear. We can't even get our heads straight on the basics, like whether we should even bother supporting the national squad, let alone coordinate any actual joint action.

It’s high time that, alongside all the hype surrounding gym culture and the rise of MMA, we actually take a hard look at what’s happening within the Polish soccer scene...

Slask Wroclaw vs. Ruch Chorzów (02.18.2012)
Once again, the Ruch Chorzów fans were barred from traveling to the away game. In an incredible move, the Slask Wroclaw supporters actually bought up the tickets for them just to fill their own section! I mean, just remember—these two sets of fans absolutely loathe each other. Talk about a gutsy move!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...59981945_n.jpg
http://www.ultras-tifo.net/images/st...Chorzow/15.jpg

And then there's the exact opposite scenario...
http://www.ultras-tifo.net/news/1902...-22092013.html

I guess what really worries me is that we haven't seen any other supporter groups step up or say anything about this whole mess yet, especially since the next game is just around the corner. If you can't see where this is coming from, why they're doing it, or who they're actually targeting, then I honestly think you're just being blind to the situation.

velvetfalcon80 said:What actually worries me is the silence. Not a single other supporter group has even issued a statement on this mess, and the next game is right around the corner. Honestly, if you can't see where this is coming from, what the motive is, or who they're actually targeting, you're just being willfully blind.

That’s just not true. A few others have spoken up, they just haven't done it publicly yet.

Eric Phillips52 said:that's just not true, I mean, a few others have basically made their positions known, they just haven't done it publicly yet, I guess.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking too.

Zachary Carter53 said:I’d probably say things will play out just like they did back in the 80s. They'll show up in Chicago totally unorganized, flying under the radar, just wandering through the streets. Then, you stumble upon a small group of them, and suddenly—bam—you realize those guys aren't welcome here at all.🙂

What "groups" are you talking about stumbling into back in the 80s? 😕

Ryan Ramos98 said:It is high time that—beyond just promoting gym culture and combat sports training—we take a serious look at examples like this from the Polish scene...

Slask Wroclaw vs. Ruch Chorzow (February 18, 2012)
The Ruch Chorzów faithful—once again—were barred from attending the away game. In an incredible turn of events, the Slask Wroclaw supporters actually stepped up and purchased tickets for the visiting section themselves! It’s worth noting that both fanbases absolutely despise one another—so this was truly a brave action.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...59981945_n.jpg
I was just looking at this photo from the match against Ruch Chorzów—it really captures the energy of the crowd! It reminds me quite a bit of those intense atmospheres you see down at Yankee Stadium during a playoff run.

It’s actually quite the opposite—it really is.
The recent developments regarding fan legislation—it’s quite a complex situation, really—have sparked significant debate within the community. I was reading through some reports earlier this morning while grabbing coffee, and it seems the legal landscape for supporters is shifting in ways that could impact everything from stadium access to how we organize at games. It’s a lot to process, but I remain optimistic about our ability to navigate these changes!

It’s actually quite a win—the police managed to pull off exactly what they were aiming for—which was ensuring there was zero conflict in the stands even though both groups showed up.

neonhawk15 said:What groups were they even "running into" back in the eighties? 😕

Man, you totally missed my point. I’m talking about just showing up in a new city unannounced—like, walking through downtown or heading toward the stadium and just stumbling right into another group's crowd...

Everything seems possible except for one major hurdle... the fact that whether you're part of the home supporters or just a regular spectator in the east or west stands, if the cops at the gate spot you looking like an away fan, they’ll likely haul you straight off to a transport van or a holding cell.
I saw this firsthand recently when the LA Galaxy played a cup match out in Des Moines. A few of us were trying to make it into the main stands, but the security spotted us immediately. They ushered us right over to the away section while blowing whistles in our faces, harassing us, filming us, and even making us take off our shoes and stuff like that... just to be difficult.

Henry Grant51 said:It all seems plausible except for one thing... if the police at the entrance—whether they're guarding the home fans or just regular spectators in the East or West stands—spot you as an away supporter, they’ll probably just toss you straight into a transport van or a holding cell.
We saw this firsthand when LA Galaxy played a cup match in Des Moines... a few of us tried to get into the stands, but the cops clocked us immediately. They marched us over to the away section while blowing breathalyzers in our faces, harassing us, filming us, even making us take off our shoes and stuff...

Sure, they can harass you (but haven't we grown used to that? 🤷), but they can't legally ban you under any real law. This rule was issued by the USSF, not the US Government, so this "law" can be ignored since it wasn't passed by Congress. Just keep standing tall!

I didn't explicitly mention a formal ban, but they’ll basically kick you out of the stadium... you'd probably only manage to get inside once every ten tries if that happens.

Robert Šola is living in his own little universe:
View on imgur

Mark Carter10 said:Sure, they can give you a hard time—though honestly, isn't that just part of the experience at this point? 🤷—but they can't actually hit you with a legal ban under any real statute. This whole regulation was issued by the USSF, not the US Government, so since it wasn't passed by Congress, it’s basically just an internal policy that can be ignored... so just keep standing your ground!

See, this isn't even a real law—it's just one of those updated measures tucked away in an action plan designed to crack down on fans. The actual law was established ages ago, which gives the USSF all the freedom in the world to pad it out, add new bits, or tweak things whenever they feel like it—as much as they want, really—making this specific provision incredibly, incredibly difficult to challenge in court.

And yeah, under that same framework, they can kick you out of the stadium if they deem you "suspicious" or whatever else they decide... So, while you might not get a formal legal ban, you still won't be watching the games either...

The crux of the entire issue lies in how the FBI decides to handle this matter. From their perspective, it’s much more efficient to keep fans contained within the stadium stands rather than having to police them out on the streets of the city. This brings up some serious questions regarding our freedom of movement—do they actually have the legal authority to bar people from entering town? Given where we live, I wouldn't be surprised if they try, which leaves us facing a massive amount of uncertainty moving forward.

Alexander Miller54 said:Robert Šola is living in his own little world:
View on imgur

Hmm. Interesting.

I guess Šola used to be one of those people standing up against Mamić and the way the USSF runs things. Not sure what changed since then.

Henry Grant51 said:None of this works unless you account for one major flaw... the cops at the stadium entrances. Whether it’s the home supporters' section or just general seating like the east or west stands, if they spot you as an away fan, they'll likely toss you straight into a van or a holding cell.
Look at what happened when LA Galaxy played a cup match in Des Moines... a few of us tried to get into the main stands, but they spotted us immediately at the gate. They marched us over to the visiting section while blowing smoke in our faces, harassing us, filming us, even making us take off our shoes and stuff like that...

Honestly, I think getting into the stands in San Francisco, Miami, or San Diego will be easier since you can actually blend into the crowd. In Des Moines, where these low-tier matches happen every other leap year, there's nowhere to hide.

cosmicdrifter44 said:This isn't even a law. It’s just one of those tweaked measures tucked away in an action plan to crack down on fans. Since the actual law was passed ages ago, the USSF basically has free rein to pad it out, add stuff, or change things whenever they feel like it. It makes it incredibly difficult to actually challenge this provision in court.

And yeah, under that same fan law, they can just kick you out of the stadium if they decide you look suspicious or whatever. You won't get an official ban, but you still won't be watching any games.

They can't just rewrite the fan law on a whim. Every single amendment has to go through debate and a vote in Congress, get signed by the President, and then be officially published. It doesn't work like that.
The law is the law, and frankly, it’s bullshit. But even then, you can't exactly tell a cop to back off; they'll just slap you with something like "obstructing an officer" or "disturbing the peace." Of course, if you end up before a decent judge, you could fight those charges in court. It really just comes down to us—do we actually have the stomach to fight this, or are we just going to roll over? Personally, I think most people will stand their ground. 😉

They have officially labeled this as "additional USSF measures to prevent stadium unrest," though I suppose we could more accurately describe it as an infringement on fundamental human rights—specifically the freedom of movement, an attempt to silence the masses, and a calculated effort to suppress the fan movement. Regardless of how they frame it, we simply cannot allow ourselves to be intimidated by a corrupt establishment that seems to dominate US Soccer.
The Seattle demon group refuses to participate in any voucher distribution schemes or ticket purchases tied to such vouchers. This does not mean that from the stands of our stadiums, the voice of the Seattle demon will not be heard; it will remain a voice that continues to cheer for our beloved club, a voice that will not tremble or fall silent when it becomes necessary to shout against the system.
I think we all understand their true objective: they want empty stands filled with casual spectators who will turn a blind eye to whatever misconduct occurs, people who lack concern and won't rebel because they are merely passing through. But perhaps we can ensure that doesn't happen. We should move forward together, even more strongly than before, because for us, our clubs and their matches are not mere afterthoughts; they are a part of the life we live and what we truly love.
For a better tomorrow, and for the salvation of American soccer.
ALL AS ONE - SHOULDER TO SHOULDER

Seattle demon