New fan laws: What do we think?

I’ve been under some kind of indefinite restraining order over in San Diego... Just about a month ago, I finally got a blue envelope in the mail stating that the restrictions were being lifted and that the fine I received alongside the order—which, let's be honest, I haven't paid yet—was being tossed out.

Out of the 17 people on that list, maybe seven or eight managed to get cleared after putting up a fight; everyone else just took it on the chin...

So, I’ve got a question... just got served with a court ruling today—fine and a one-year ban
The thing is, the paperwork says I’m banned from NK San Diego, but that club folded over a year ago
The fans were actually showing up for San Diego 1919 instead

wearypanther21 said:So, I've got a question. I just received a court ruling today stating I have to pay a fine and face a one-year ban.
The thing is, the ruling says the ban is for NK San Diego, but that club actually folded over a year ago.
The fans were there supporting the successor club, San Diego 1919.

...it’s all the same nonsense, really.

I'm not even sure if it's the same deal, honestly... feels like some people just got completely screwed by how this whole thing was set up...

but I get what you're saying, you know? getting judged based on absolutely nothing like that, so...

Here’s just my two cents and a pretty basic question, so please don't take this as an invitation to start throwing shade or picking fights with each other—I'm actually looking for some real action here.
What exactly is stopping American supporter groups from pooling all their resources—legal, media, whatever it takes—to launch massive campaigns on a national level? We need to go beyond just complaining about laws (which are unconstitutional in so many ways anyway, not to mention how the police and the whole repressive apparatus love to abuse them) and act like that German Pirate Party did.
Their whole campaign was built on the idea that "human rights don't stop at the stadium gates" and pushed for the decriminalization of pyrotechnics and everything else...
http://www.piratenpartei.de/2013/08/...tadiontor-vor/
If you ask me, now is absolutely not the time to be obsessing over "fan codes of conduct." The government isn't some rival fan club; state officials aren't just twisting the law to screw you over, they’re eventually screwing over the entire public. Once they start using laws to repress people and exercise political whims, it becomes a way to terrorize anyone who happens to be disobedient to whoever is in power. That's why I think a real campaign and actual activism matters way more than any of the petty stuff supporter groups are distracted by right now.
The general public—or those idiots in the stands clapping while the cops clear out a section for some verbal offense that isn't even a crime—needs to realize that once certain things become "normalized," their own freedoms are next on the chopping block. There’s no limit to how far they’ll go if they manage to label someone a collective enemy and convince the public that wiping them out is necessary. It's a textbook totalitarian tactic.
https://piraten-augsburg.de/media//banner-webseite.png

By the stadium gates, not "doors," my bad. Just a slip of the tongue.

Human rights don't just vanish once you step through the stadium gates.
A solid slogan.

But when we’re talking specifically about New York City, I really think that's the case. It’s over. Case closed.!
It was actually finished over three years ago—back on January 15, 2010.
Who was actually in charge back then? And more importantly, who is being held accountable for the absolute carnage at Rotor? When you have hundreds of citizens and fans suffering serious physical harm and seeing their basic human rights trampled, someone has to answer for that.
A small portion of that crowd had the chance to experience the intensity of the Red Sox faithful firsthand during the away game in New Jersey.

So, it’s all "according to the law," regardless of which specific rule they decide to hide behind. But let's be honest: rights tend to evaporate long before you even reach the stadium gates.

It really depends on how you look at it, but honestly, the fight hasn't even truly kicked off yet. Nobody has actually launched a real campaign—legally, through the media, or politically—to go after the establishment that just does whatever the hell it wants. And let’s be real, the only ones with enough muscle and organization to actually pull that off are the fan associations. Sure, there's this whole "spite-driven resistance" thing happening, but that’s just noise; it’s basically suicide. What we actually need are people willing to take them to court for every single abuse of power. We need fan groups to step up and file a massive lawsuit with the Supreme Court over this latest Sports Fan Act (they tried with the previous amendments and failed miserably). There's so much idiocy involved, from command responsibility to masking—not to mention how they maintain these lists of hundreds of people where only a handful actually face bans, using the rest just to mess with our heads... This stupid law basically allows them to punish someone twice for the same thing, like issuing a ban based on two totally contradictory reasons where one doesn't even hold water.
Look, if a court issues a ban during a legal proceeding, then fine, that’s a judicial decision regardless of what anyone thinks. BUT, suddenly this law gives some cop total discretionary power to deny someone entry to Yankee Stadium on the spot just because he has a "hunch that they behaved unlawfully." Then what the hell are courts and penalties even for?? If is talking about having a hunch that someone is already banned—since that's the only way to prove someone acted illegally—then you can't have hundreds of names on a list and then start banning people who aren't even on it.
Either way, the law shouldn't work like this; stuff like this needs to be challenged in the Supreme Court, people need to sue... but whatever. It's like nobody has the energy left, and everyone is just leaning into nihilism and a slow, quiet surrender. Goddammit.

I find myself in complete agreement with Thomas Williams59 on this matter. We need to file a petition with the Supreme Court to challenge the constitutionality of the Sports Fan Act immediately. And frankly, what is going on with the group's legal counsel? Why hasn't there been a single official statement lately? It feels like they're just letting the group get dragged through the mud in every corner of the media without any defense.

I honestly feel like everyone—every single group involved—is on a massive downward slide when it comes to actually filing lawsuits against police officers or holding them accountable through their superiors. It’s the same story with certain judges who seem more interested in rubber-stamping fake police testimony than anything else. I don't know if it's a lack of guts, a lack of will, or just some other underlying issue. But without real pressure, you're never going to see any actual results.

rustyangler122 said:I honestly think we’re all seeing a massive decline across the board. Every group is failing when it comes to filing lawsuits—whether it’s against police officers or going after their superiors. Then you’ve got certain judges who basically just nod along to fake police testimony. It's pathetic.It comes down to guts, willpower, or maybe just some other missing ingredient, I don't know. If nobody puts the pressure on, nothing ever changes.

Both, actually.☕

...messed up priorities, broken promises, whatever...

Look, I’m not saying it’s nothing—let’s not spread misinformation here—because I hear they’re going to try this private legal route, and I know how much those things drag on because lawsuits are a massive headache, and trust me, I get the struggle. But like I was saying... we really need to be pushing for a broader campaign and a constitutional challenge too. Just because the previous attempt at a constitutional challenge against the old law got tossed doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again. And again. And again. You gotta back it up with a massive public campaign. Like I mentioned before, there are provisions in place right now that should theoretically fall into place like dominoes; for instance, a cop’s random, discretionary decision shouldn't be allowed to override a court ruling and effectively just nullify it. What’s even the point of having court mandates or specific deadlines if some beat cop can just decide—even after your sentence and your ban have expired—to keep you out of the stadium FOREVER just because he "feels" like it?
And that’s just one single issue that needs to be dismantled, assuming any justice actually exists anymore. But hey, there’s always hope that a tiny shred of fairness is left in this society; it’s way too easy to just roll over and give up ahead of time.

...in my opinion, one of the most critical issues we face right now is how everyone is so quick to solve other people's problems while just giving up on their own. This post by Thomas Williams59 is simple, I guess, but it says so much...
DON'T GIVE UP. BE PERSISTENT. BE ANNOYING. BE BOLD, BE BRASH, BE UNRELENTING...

First off, hey everyone! I was hoping someone here might be able to point me in the right direction...

So, basically, a few months back I "failed" a breathalyzer test over in San Francisco, and as you might expect, a blue envelope showed up at my door a few days later. My reading was 0.17, which landed me a fine $1333, and now I’m looking to file an appeal to see if I can get that penalty reduced. The thing is, I'm a bit lost because the paperwork I received doesn't actually say where I'm supposed to send this objection... it's all a little confusing. The citation was issued by the municipal court in San Francisco, but there isn't a specific address listed for appeals or anything like that. Should I just mail it down to them in San Francisco, or should I take it personally to the courthouse in Washington, D.C., where I live? Also, would anyone be able to drop the appeal off on my behalf, since I'm working all day every day... And to top it all off, I can't for the life of me find the decision number that's supposedly required for the filing. I'm staring at the page wondering if it's that string of numbers in the text like "511-xx-x/xx/xxxx," or if it's that "Ref No: J-xxxx/xx-x" printed in the top right corner of the notice...

Thanks in advance for any help you can give 😉

Noah Bailey7 said:First off, hey everyone! I could really use some help if anyone here knows how this works.

So, basically, a few months back, I failed a breathalyzer test in San Francisco, and then (predictably) a blue envelope showed up in my mail. My reading was 0.08, so I got hit with a fine $1333 and now I’m looking to file an appeal to try and get that penalty reduced. The thing is, I'm a bit lost on where actually to send this appeal because none of the paperwork I received gives me any clear instructions. The citation was issued by the municipal court in San Francisco, but there isn't a specific address listed for appeals or anything like that. Should I just mail it to them in San Francisco, or should I take it in person to the courthouse in Washington, D.C., where I actually live? Also, can someone else drop the appeal off for me since I'm working all day? On top of that, I can't find the actual case number that I'm supposed to include in my appeal. I'm not sure if it's the number within the body of the text—something like "511-xx-x/xx/xxxx"—or if it's that "Ref No: J-xxxx/xx-x" printed in the top right corner of the notice.

Thanks in advance for any help 😉

...one little detail that might actually help you out. During the big rivalry game (in the away section), they were selling canned Budweiser.

Listen to this jerk claiming only 5% of those arrested actually face any penalties 🤮

The English model...

copperharbor02 said:Listen, jerk, only 5% of those detained actually end up getting fined. 🤮

The English model...

He laid out how ticket distribution is going strictly through the clubs since they're the ones holding the bag. Basically, away teams will have to handle tickets for their own fans (just like how Real Madrid sets up vouchers for their supporters during European trips)—meaning there'll be a clear paper trail of exactly who bought what.

According to him, at every stadium hosting high-risk games, they’ll set up an office for a dedicated referee on-site. This person will hand out immediate penalties to fans who get banned from stadiums, and I guess there will be zero tolerance if anyone uses pyrotechnics.

So, does this mean the right to an appeal or even having a lawyer is just gone now? 🤔

The Josip Broz Marshall method.