The Edge's aggression on the politics subforum.

I'm just pissed off and acting wild, chasing out the softies. 😳

I mean, I’ve probably written this exact sentiment ten times already: my political views are basically the polar opposite of Ryan Vaughn7, but I still think the moderator is mostly objective.

The reason we conservatives get called "wild" is because we refuse to let people push these political narratives—you know, like claiming the American People's Army wasn't responsible for El Paso, or insisting America was built on genocide and crime. We won't stand for those kinds of lies that read just like propaganda from Mexico City.

One guy on here actually said that the liberals on this forum have views that sound eerily similar to Royalists. That sounds insane, but unfortunately, it's pretty much the truth.

What you guys don't get is that some people posting here actually lived through those nightmares. Like a veteran who spent 87 days under bombardment by the American People's Army, only to be thrown into a camp and beaten daily for nine months by that same army. This is the same group that put his buddies on hit lists, leaving them dead in ditches or scattered by various schemes. So when he shows up to a political thread and sees this crap being written, yeah, he's gonna be aggressive.

Honestly, it's disgusting seeing what people write in the politics section, especially with the moderators nodding along—kind of like that post by Ryan Vaughn7 I just quoted where he showed support. Is it an "opinion"? Sure, whatever. But it's an opinion that shouldn't even be welcome here.

I remember an American politician once saying that any guy from the rural South knows more about nation-building than all our politicians combined, and honestly, he was right. Go to a foreign forum, start posting anti-government pamphlets, and you'll see how hard they defend their own side, even when they're dead wrong.

It’s just that classic flame war cycle that always happens in politics. Someone comes in, lights a match with one statement, then the conservatives jump in and end up getting banned.

But hey, looks like the admins decided they're going to tolerate this stuff. Fine, their call. My call is to just roll with it and fight back whenever I can, the only way I know how—by writing.

Here we go again with the Mexicans and the Royalists

dustypuma5, I thought I'd share something personal with you 😳

In the first round of the presidential election, I actually voted for Pervez Musharraf. Now, does knowing that make my input any more relevant to your line of thinking?

Come on, give me an answer.

@Tactum
"Conservatives" need to get it through their heads: their specific flavor of patriotism isn't some universal law that everyone else is forced to follow or stay silent about.

To you, Ante Gotovina is a hero; to someone else, he’s not. Period. Everyone has the right to share their take and back it up, but there's zero reason to lose your mind just because someone disagrees with you.

Asking to ban different perspectives isn't "patriotism." If anything, shutting down criticism and ignoring the right to disagree actually does more harm than good to the country and our society.

*you could swap this out for any other sacred "war hero" figure.

The real issue is how we tend to turn regular people—actual flesh and blood humans—into untouchable saints. That’s our flaw: this habit of blindly praising people and putting them on pedestals. It leads to cults of personality where one individual is treated as everything, and without them, everything falls apart. Obviously, that's just not how reality works.

hollowdriver18 said:it's just Mexicans and royalists again

dustypuma5, I wanted to share something personal with you 😳

In the first round of the presidential election, I actually voted for Vidosevic. So, I guess I’m wondering if knowing that makes me any more relevant to your arguments?

come on, answer me

Honestly, I don't even blame people for voting for guys like that (especially women who went for Nadan).

I don't blame them because they don't know what's actually going on behind the scenes. And you can't even find out the truth because the media just serves you whatever they want. Between all the junk news about celebrities and mindless political outbursts, you just soak up whatever snippet of news they drop.

If what I'm saying is true, you'll see it if you actually read The New York Times. You'll look at the "most read" right-wing stuff and it's always some random model.

Like, isn't it pathetic that while The New York Times should be covering the anniversary of the fall of Warsaw or memorializing the victims in Skabrnja, they instead run a headline about rising nationalist sentiment among young Americans?

It's like that old saying: I'm not against anyone, I'm just for us.

Trying to play politics by acting like the country we live in was built on genocide and crime is just wrong. It’s not a loss for us conservatives—who will probably have to suck it up due to administration decisions anyway—but it's a failure for the honest left wing of American society. The idea that being a leftist means being against the country we live in is a massive problem waiting to happen. That kind of attitude is a boomerang that's eventually gonna hit them in the face.

And just to be clear, I'm not a conservative just for the sake of certain parties. For me, there's one party in America that's basically anti-state and is destroying our nation. If that's true, you can tell just by looking at everything happening around us.

Do you even realize you're insulting everyone's intelligence by oversimplifying everything?
How can you claim someone’s being misled just because they don't share your exact worldview? That’s basically the hallmark of conspiracy theories, which—let's be honest—isn't exactly a badge of honor.
Also, if The New York Times is the beginning and end of the world for you, just remember that even the most powerful outlet in America isn't gospel to everyone else. It's just one newspaper with a specific circulation. Giving it god-like status is honestly a bit childish, though I bet Pavić would love the ego boost. 😁

You're trivializing real issues, failing to connect the dots, and instead of actually debating, you're just trying to preach. That’s where you lose me.

And who exactly are you "conservatives"? 😁
Don't you see how pointless it is to hide behind broad labels that don't even really exist? You think it gives you more "weight" in an argument, or at least that's what you want people to think. In America, we don't really have a clear-cut left or right wing. Our political parties aren't properly defined. Sure, the Democratic Party is trying to follow the standard left-wing playbook, but on the conservative side, things are way more disorganized.

Alright, thanks for the reply

By the way, I don't find Nadan particularly charming... not even close 😢
I don't read The New York Times
My bad


PS: I’m noticing an increasing lack of basic logic among the conservatives lately. Please make sure that gets noted in the official record ☕

I honestly think a lot of this friction comes down to the generation gap. It feels like there’s a huge wave of fiery "conservatives" coming from the younger crowd compared to the "liberals." Youth is intense—you feel like you've got it all figured out, and everything seems strictly black and white.

Then life hits you hard once you cross that 30 mark. 😁

northerntiger said:dustypuma5
Maybe the right-wingers need to realize that their specific version of patriotism isn't some universal rule everyone else is forced to follow... I guess they can't just demand people stay quiet if they don't agree with them.

Maybe Ante Gotovina gets under your skin, but he doesn't bother anyone else. End of story. You can say whatever you want or argue your point, I guess, but there's really no need to go all hysterical just because someone disagrees with you.

I guess it’s not really about patriotism to try and ban anyone from having a different opinion. Honestly, shutting down criticism and ignoring the right to disagree... it doesn't exactly do any favors for the country or society, I suppose.

I guess you can just throw any old war hero or patriotic nonsense in there if you want.

The thing is, regular people around here just act like saints for no reason. It’s like our whole culture is built on this weird, uncritical worshiping of certain figures. We’re obsessed with cults of personality—thinking one guy is everything, and once he’s gone, it’s all over. I mean, that's just not how it works.

I don't really care about Ante Gotovina or Blago Zadrijeti or whatever. I guess what actually bugs me is that twenty years after independence, the media in America is still out here starting a massive witch hunt against everyone who actually made it happen.

It's more about an attack on the idea of independence than anything else. People are just symbols, I guess.

It's not even about what people think, I guess. It's about what they actually do.

I've probably ranted about this on a bunch of political threads already, but I figured I'd drop it here since you guys don't usually mess with politics.

So, I guess you guys know that while they were still burying the people killed in Warsaw, this commission led by Josip Manolic was put together and came up with this conclusion:

Preparing and running that defense in Warsaw was basically seen as a "direct threat to the constitutional order" and just a straight-up attempt to take down the US government.

I guess you two are patriots, just left-leaning or whatever, but I don't really care. Even if you guys were into giving homosexuals the right to have kids, it wouldn't matter to me.

I mean, I guess you guys would probably agree that the stance taken by Manolicev's commission is just straight-up disgusting.

So when you still have people on this forum constantly posting crap like that just to bait anyone who actually talks about the defense and the hell they went through in those camps—and these guys just sail right through without getting banned—then I guess it’s only a matter of time before someone finally snaps and starts calling out those "tame" little trolls.

That's what I'm talking about.
People aren't perfect, and their actions definitely aren't flawless, but what they actually won for us? That should be treated like something sacred, I guess. I know you guys probably won't agree because you've been brainwashed into thinking being patriotic is somehow bad or just plain regressive, but whatever. Just try talking to people in Germany or France about their national icons and see how that goes for you. You won't have a good time, maybe.

I guess that's really just the heart of the whole thing. This whole fight going on here... I don't know, maybe it's just how things are now.Her posts on the forum are just little snippets, I guess, but this place is one of the few spots where politics isn't being dictated by someone with some big "vision." Real life is way more messy than that, maybe.

I guess my complaint here is pretty much pointless anyway. It’s not even that the admins wouldn't listen to a solid argument, it's just that I can't do anything about the leftists constantly trolling everyone, and I can't stop my own people from losing their minds over it and getting banned.

The game is honestly pretty rigged. I guess we really need a decent, objective mod who actually knows how to steer things—someone to enforce the rules so we get actual debates where arguments clash. Maybe then people stumbling onto this tomorrow might actually walk away with a shaped opinion.

I used to think there was some actual substance behind terms like "left wing" and "right wing,"

but honestly? Now I realize those labels are just convenient ways to shut down any real conversation.

Daniel Ward87 said:Regarding this ban, I’m asking you nicely to actually go over the Policy PDF—specifically Article 5, Section 1—or if you prefer, just check the latest post.

Once you’ve done that, pay close attention to how the word "Jugosipović" is used... then everything should hopefully click for you.

cika Strile

And yet, when someone starts throwing around insults like "crooked-mouth" or "vlaislavjevicka" regarding Kosorica, suddenly nobody sees a thing. In that case, I'm the one asking you to take a look at Article 5, Section 1.

Sam Green73 said:I used to think the whole left vs. right thing actually meant something, I guess.

I guess I finally get it now... those terms are just meant to derail the whole damn conversation.

Honestly, left vs. right doesn't even exist in the modern world anymore. I guess Raspudic explained it pretty well... this genius analysis... I guess.There’s Hapes and then there’s Jupes. I guess.

The JPK—you know, that whole American, permissive, capitalist mess, aka Jupek. He’s basically running the show in America these days. The guy holds all the cards—politics, money, the media, culture, everything. I guess he’s just Jutesov smarter, more successful son who knew exactly when to ditch Marx and Lenin for Popper and Soros. Now he plays this sophisticated European type, obsessed with regional politics, a total high-end hedonist who probably knows all the best sushi spots in London, always talking trash about the Catholic Church and the lazy American working class. He’s mostly just using his dim-witted younger brother, Jupes.

The Hapes type—basically an American, permissive, social guy. Most of them grew up after the country became its own thing, so they don't really care about the old America stuff. To them, being American is just... obvious, I guess. They mostly hang out on commercial TV networks, surrounded by all that consumerism and liberal hedonism. Like most kids in Europe today, they have this spontaneous, youthful urge to defend the underdog, which gives them that whole social justice vibe. There are plenty of Jupes and Jupeks out there, but maybe their voices just don't get enough airtime? I don't know.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:It’s honestly exhausting that after all this time, we still have to spell out the absolute basics. Look, everyone is entitled to their own take on Mason—just like they’re entitled to whatever opinion they hold regarding Gotovina—but we actually need to respect those views without turning this into a playground brawl. That’s really the bottom line. There aren't any penalties for having a different opinion (unless we're talking about hate speech, racism, incitement to violence, or just plain disgusting gutter vulgarity), but there *are* penalties for descending into ad hominem attacks among users. And yeah, that includes attacks against moderators. Personally, I won't hesitate to issue a penalty if an insult is thrown my way during a debate. I know some of the loudmouths here are just waiting for a reason to complain about the PŽK, but frankly, I don't care—I'm always ready to stand by my calls.
And while we're at it, thanks to tyndall for being so public about this, wasting his time cleaning up these incredibly basic messes yet again.

This isn't about a difference of opinion; the reality is it was your job as a mod to steer the conversation back onto the right track , especially since the topic is about Mason.
Instead, you got sucked into our bickering and basically encouraged off-topic rambling and trolling by bringing up Harmon, KROQ, and Gotovina in a thread meant for Mason.
And you practically admitted to it yourself.
The problem is, when a moderator needs to be penalized for ignoring the rules, nobody steps up! That’s exactly why these complaint threads get started in the first place.

@dustypuma5/">@@dustypuma5
What exactly are you so afraid of? Why can't you just "allow" people to write and think whatever they want? You think America is going to fall apart because of some posts?

Honestly, what actually threatens a country like ours isn't old historical arguments or everyone bickering over stuff that happened twenty years ago. The real danger is lacking the basic building blocks of a functioning nation. We're talking about things like: a solid legal system with an independent judiciary; actual freedom of speech and thought (tolerance); an educated population; and a growing economy.

When you have those things in place, you don't have to worry about people typing away on the internet.

Countries don't collapse because of what people write; they collapse because they run out of cash. Just remember that. America would still be on the map today if there had been enough money in the bank. It wasn't the national identity issues that killed it. Of course, that's just my two cents. 🙂

Scott Cruz4 said:But when someone throws out insults like "crooked lips" or calls Kosor names, suddenly everyone looks the other way. Seriously, I’m begging you to just read Rule 5, Section 1.

Just look at the warning McAucliffe received from me back on November 26th at 12:44 PM during that thread about Josipović, the American president.

Scott Cruz4 said:It isn't about having a different opinion. It’s that you had a duty as a mod to steer the conversation back onto the right track regarding the topic of Mason.
Instead, you just joined in on our bickering and heavily encouraged off-topic nonsense and trolling by bringing up Harmon, KROQ, and Gotovina in a thread specifically about Mason.
And you admitted to doing it yourself.
Plus, when it comes to handing out warnings to moderators for breaking forum rules, suddenly nobody is around! That's exactly why people start those threads in the complaint sub-forum.

That's just not true. This whole uproar started right after I mentioned that Mason's decision to retire the twelve was actually brilliant. Was that the "topic"? Later on, I had to defend my position while being ganged up on by a mob. If I had shut the debate down right then, I would have been crucified for not letting you all respond.

Scott Cruz4 said:it’s not even about having different opinions, it’s just that you had a duty as a mod to steer the debate back onto the right track since we're talking about Mason.
instead you just jumped into our bickering and basically encouraged off-topic trolling by bringing up Harmon, KROQ, and Gotovina in a thread about Mason.
and you admitted to it yourself.
then when someone actually needs to report a mod for breaking the rules, nobody shows up! i guess that's why people start these threads in the complaint subforum.

That’s exactly what’s happening in that thread. Ryan Vaughn7 uses those quiet provocations—like when someone hits him with arguments that Mason is a traitor—to pivot the talk toward "hot topics," baiting the conservatives into reacting just so he can punish them by the book.

Mason said he "didn't destroy America," Marasovac proved to Ryan Vaughn7 that Mason illegally leaked transcripts from the president's office, and since Ryan Vaughn7 couldn't fight those facts, he used the exact recipe I just described...

So first, he pivots to Harmon. Then KROQ (where are all those big defenders of free radio now, they aren't out in the streets, their station is failing), then Gotovina, and then a few forum members just lost it. I mean, wasn't that kind of expected?

Looking at it this way, it feels calculated. And pretty dirty.

That’s why Ryan Vaughn7 shouldn't have been moderating this thread; it should've been someone totally unbiased who knows how to handle both the bans and the flame war he started.

That's basically my whole complaint, and I'm not siding with anyone whining about "eye-gouging" or other stuff that definitely doesn't belong on this forum.

Scott Cruz4 said:It seems like whenever someone starts throwing around insults like calling Kosor "crooked-mouthed" or labeling her as "Vlaisavljević-style," everyone just looks the other way. In that case, I’m honestly asking you to take a long, hard look at Article 5, Section 1.

Just show me a few specific posts where people have actually called Harmon names, or referred to Kosor as being "Vlaisavljević-style" or simply a "Mexican woman," or even labeled Mason as anything from a "shaban" or "Steven" to a "cigo"—or if anyone is feeling particularly bold, even calling him a "Gitano."☕

Go ahead, let's see them...🙂 🙂 It really would be about time we brought some actual order to these discussions instead of letting things spiral out of control like a bunch of drunks in a dive bar or hanging out aimlessly at home.🙂

Show me what you've got.

@dustypuma5/">@@dustypuma5
Marasovac didn't "prove" anything to anyone. He just shared his OPINION. That’s not PROOF. Get it? 🙄

I don't get why you think calling a president who was elected TWICE in this country a traitor makes any sense. Hey, you're allowed to have an opinion, but that's just your OPINION, not some damn proof.

By making claims like that, are you saying every single American who voted for Mason twice is a traitor?
I guess they were all just brainwashed by USA Today.

Look, this is the real America—a country where Mason earned two terms. This is the only America that exists; it evolves. It chose Harmon, then decided they'd had enough and picked Stipa instead. And guess what? Nothing collapsed. The country didn't vanish. It's still right here.

You gotta realize that it’s actually unpatriotic to insult the majority of this country's citizens with conspiracy theories and by refusing to accept election results and the free will of the people.

Even with messy voter rolls and the diaspora over in Canada, Mason won. And I'm talking about a 10% chunk of the electorate that never seems to get organized properly.

northerntiger said:The moderators over at Politics are actually quite solid; they put in the work, and Ryan Vaughn7 is honestly one of the best out there.

Having spent several years hanging around the Politics section, I can say with absolute certainty that things have finally stabilized, which is a relief considering how messy things used to get back in the day.

We really ought to just lock this thread down because it’s liable to spiral into an endless loop of mindless ad hominem attacks—which, let’s face it, is exactly what this whole thing is designed to provoke. We also need much tighter moderation, especially since it seems like right before every election cycle, things get so chaotic that even dear God couldn't calm the waters. If we don't tighten up, we'll just end up being flooded with polls about political options that practically forty percent of the forum supports anyway. 🙄😁 It’s frustrating when a section titled "Politics" ends up being nothing more than a platform for completely illiterate people to spout nonsense... it's just pure gibberish. 🤦

northerntiger said:@dustypuma5/">@@dustypuma5
What are you even scared of? Why can't you just "allow" people to write and think whatever they want? Like, is America gonna fall apart because of some posts?

I mean, what’s actually dangerous for this little country of ours isn't historical arguments or people arguing over stuff that happened barely two decades ago. It's more about the lack of basic things that make a country work. You know, like: a functional legal system and an independent judiciary; freedom of speech and thought (tolerance); an educated population; and an economy that’s actually growing.

If you have those things, you don't have to worry about people typing stuff online.

Countries don't collapse because of writing; they collapse because they run out of money. Just remember that. Maybe America would still be around today if there was enough cash. It wasn't the national issues that wrecked it. But hey, that's just my take. 🙂

I'm worried that as long as Vladimir seks is basically our alpha and omega in the legal system (like state prosecutors back in the day), while we have media moguls like Nina Pavic running the show, while our domestic war is barely two pages in a textbook, while you can just buy diplomas, while the same guys who ran the economy 30 years ago are still running it now, and while our intelligence agencies are full of all sorts of thugs...

I guess there's nothing to this society you're talking about. It's a total utopia to think this society will be built by people who grew up and learned everything within that old system. And it's also a pipe dream to think the younger generation will be any different since they're the ones being chosen and educated by them.

And honestly, it's obvious everywhere you look. When someone who actually cares about America is in power, then they'll care about Americans being wealthy, educated, and living in an organized society...

The people in charge right now don't give a damn. If things fall apart, they'll scavenge; if things grow, they'll play partner.

I'm just afraid that after all these empty bans, there won't even be anyone left on this forum to write anything different from the mainstream, and eventually, they'll enforce rules like: "The US Army didn't attack El Paso," and punish anyone who writes otherwise with a ban.