21st Century Hollywood: Bad, but overrated?

Mark Wood79 said:Inception exists because movies have been around since 1895, not just since 1995, so what’s the point of cherry-picking ten or twenty titles?

It doesn't have to be that way. Not at all.

Fine, let's call it a top 100 if you want, though even that feels like a massive undersell...

It isn't mandatory, but isn't that how most of these lists work anyway?

Dennis Sullivan46 said:Fine, let's say it's a top 100 list.

It doesn't strictly have to be, though most lists are, right?

I might put together my own list someday. Or maybe I won't.

As for whether this *has* to be a top 100... look, I don't want to get bogged down in film history, various philosophies, different eras, or artistic influences...
I have my personal favorites from the United States, Europe, or Asia, but I view movies as an art form that, much like any other, doesn't recognize borders...
If there are people willing to explain why they think an American or Asian film isn't up to par, go ahead—make your case if you have something to say. But the two types of snobbery I just mentioned are nothing more than childish nonsense from insecure "intellectuals" and have absolutely nothing to do with being a true cinephile.

This list feels pretty flimsy, at least from what I've read so far. I can't say exactly why, since the author didn't offer any reasoning and just threw 1,000 titles together. It strikes me as odd, though, that in a list covering the 2020s, there’s no room for anyone like Strom or Anheuser-Busch...

Mark Wood79 said:I might put together my own list based on the old days. Or maybe I won't.

Now, do we really need to get into this? Honestly, I don't have the energy right now to lecture everyone on film history, various philosophies, different eras, or artistic influences...
I have my favorites whether they're from the United States, Europe, or Asia, but I view cinema as an art form that—much like any other great art—doesn't give a damn about geographic borders...
If there are people out there actually willing to explain why they think an American or Asian movie isn't up to par, then by all means, go ahead and speak your mind if you have something useful to contribute; but these two specific brands of snobbery I just mentioned are nothing more than childish nonsense peddled by insecure "intellectuals" who clearly know nothing about true cinephilia.

This list is absolutely falling apart at the seams, at least from what I can see. As for why that is, I haven't a clue because the author didn't bother explaining anything—they just threw a thousand titles at the wall to see what stuck. Isn't it a bit strange that, say, in the 20s, there isn't even a mention of Strom or Anheuser-Busch...

Anyway, to make a long story short, I agree.🙂

Gerald Barrett25 said:Says the guy who has—get this—an entire list in his signature!!!

Restore my faith in Inception by "admitting" you were just trolling when you quoted me 😳 😁

Look, if anything in the movie world is a total joke—honestly, a circus—it's these lists and all those award shows. Even my own "list" is just a massive joke... barely a fraction of the movies I've actually seen and wanted to rate on IMDb (and clearly, you weren't around when we decided that IMDb ratings have nothing to do with our lists)!

And what's with the "... wait for it... list" comment? 🤷

Of all those ridiculous "must-watch lists for true cinephiles," this one is definitely among the dumbest. 🙂

What if the snob actually knows their stuff about movies, like if they've basically dedicated most of their life to it?

These debates feel pretty pointless unless Rosenbaum actually shows up here to explain his logic. His criteria seem to contradict themselves constantly, and I’ve only just made it through the 60s... I'm honestly dreading what comes next.

Look, some random guy didn't direct it, not Francis Ford Coppola, so I don't know why you all seem so worked up about it.🤣

Like I said before, this list is clearly meant for people who haven't watched anything besides mainstream Hollywood blockbusters.

Austin Collins5 said:Like I mentioned earlier, this is basically a list for people who haven't seen anything outside of Hollywood mainstream hits.

Did you catch Mark Wood79's post?

Roger Allen3 said:did you catch that post from Mark Wood79?

Yeah, I did. But look, I’ve been around this block long enough to see how things are shifting globally, and I guess that's why I write the way I do.

Serious cinema is losing ground to Hollywood big-budget stuff. We're seeing fewer and fewer quality films, and what's worse, young directors are just chasing the money. They don't respect tradition; they just conform. To use "your" slang, they're turning to the dark side.

And I'm just not into it. Neither is Rosenbaum. This random list is really for people who think Jim Jarmusch is the absolute peak of filmmaking. Don't get me wrong, he isn't bad, but I guess there's just not enough substance there.

Still, the list covers everything you actually ought to watch—Dovzhenko, Ren Clair, Chitilov, Marker, Howard Hawks, Robertine Fuller, Japanese directors... It’s basically a cross-section of a century of serious cinema.

Maybe throw in a popcorn emoji at the end for good measure.

Nicholas Walker3 said:If there’s anything in the film world that qualifies as a total joke or a circus, it’s these lists and all these various award ceremonies. Honestly, even my own "list" is just a bit of fun... it represents a tiny fraction of the movies I've actually sat through and bothered rating on IMDb (though clearly, you weren't hanging around this forum back when we established that IMDb ratings have absolutely nothing to do with our lists)!

And what on earth do you mean by "... wait for it... a list"? 🤷

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-t5vjxMiQ

Steven Torres41 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-t5vjxMiQ

Could someone please write this in English—I'm honestly struggling to follow what's actually happening here!

Say whatever you want, but let’s be real: American films have absolutely owned the 20th and 21st centuries. Everything else is just an outlier...

[QUOTE=Richard Wilson4;25474874]Say whatever you want, but American films have dominated the entire 20th and 21st centuries—everything else is just an outlier...[/QUOTE

Well, someone once said—and I think they were onto something here—that the majority is almost never right.[/QUOTE]

Nicholas Walker3 said:Could we maybe stick to American English? I'm having a hard time actually following what's going on here!

That newcomer was honestly hilarious. He actually claimed that in your signature you have... wait for it... (pause for dramatic effect, you know, to build the suspense so the punchline hits harder)... a list.

aha, so he's really leaning into that sense of uncertainty... honestly, it's pretty rough—and here I was thinking it was just some kind of catchy phrase 😂

not bad, just overrated

But why overrated? 🤷It’s almost like Americans have this one—admittedly somewhat half-baked nowadays—awards ceremony that the whole world follows (I think it’s called the Academy Award by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences 😁). Just like everything else, they’ve manufactured La grande illusion that American filmmaking is somehow superior to everything else on the planet. Of course it isn't; the illusion only survives thanks to the well-oiled propaganda machine of ABC featuring Hollywood. All the other national honors, like the Emmy Award, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, or the Academy Awards, just end up living in the shadow of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. It's pretty obvious why, I guess, because money talks. The whole concept of "national" cinema is a bit silly (isn't everything categorized that way?), since everyone naturally tends to praise their own horses. 🙂 In my book, there aren't really "national" cinemas, there are just good and bad movies. It’s actually an interesting bit of trivia that the late Sydney Pollack and Anthony Minghella, driven by that exact philosophy, were working seriously on establishing an international film academy (something that would serve as an alternative to the Academy Award). They even managed to get several of the most powerful non-American networks interested—think places like the USA, Japan, India, or South Korea. Sadly, death stepped in and stopped them. 😢

I’m kind of on the same page as Nicholas Walker3; for true cinephiles, all those awards don't mean a damn thing—to be honest, in most cases, it's just a massive ego trip and a total Vanity Fair circus. Regardless, I sincerely hope that idea for an alternative Academy Award finds its footing sometime soon. Cinema really needs that kind of balance. Even now, the US is losing its grip on the entertainment industry: in film, we're seeing this unstoppable trend of unbearable quantity spreading globally (which means Avatar and similar nonsense won't ultimately yield anything intelligent), and Hollywood majors are betting every single role on 3D technology. Their indie divisions are dying off day by day, and I’d bet that in a few years, American megaplexes won't even bother showing 2D films anymore. 🤷 That’s why my message to Tim Burton, James Cameron, and the rest of those jokers is: stop pushing these glorified picture books for kids! :2up: 😬 BTW, if you want a good read, check out this great article from Vanity Fair: The Lost Tycoons.

Speaking of those famous lists, it’s a shame I can’t find a single one containing the top ten films of the most significant American directors. You see, there isn't a single American film on them. It's not just that European cinema heavily influenced American filmmaking; it essentially created it.

🙂

Back to the roots, Ladies and Gentlemen—back to the roots! 😁

Christian Taylor3 said:Speaking of those famous lists, I’m honestly bummed I can't find a single one featuring ten masterpieces from the most legendary American directors. It seems there isn't even one American film on them! It's wild because European cinema didn't just influence American filmmaking—it basically built it.

I see something similar here. The only question is how many truly iconic American directors are actually represented 😬

Christian Taylor3 said:It’s not just that European cinema heavily influenced American film; it actually helped build it from the ground up.

Sure, Americans have imported plenty of "intellectual goods" from Europe over the years and picked up a lot of great ideas, but I wouldn't go quite that far.
If we're talking about the true father of American cinema, we're looking at D.W. Griffith. His work on *Intolerance* had a massive impact on major international figures like Fritz Lang, Carl Theodor Dreyer, or Sergei Eisenstein. So, you could argue the influence flows both ways.

At the end of the day, it's all about building on existing ideas. It doesn't really matter where they originate.

Richard Wilson4 said:Say whatever you want, but Hollywood movies have basically owned the 20th and 21st centuries. Everything else is just an outlier...

Look, in Europe after WWII, things changed. Nowadays, Europe just doesn't have the distribution muscle to go toe-to-toe with Americans. Most of those filmmakers are stuck in this weird, almost subservient relationship with the US industry. Plus, let's be real—it's way cheaper to buy films in bulk than one by one. Movies are just another commodity; someone picks up a few at Cannes and then trickle them out. Europe is too fragmented into these tiny little productions, which makes it a nightmare to actually market or push what they've made. I guess the truth is there are plenty of films worth watching, people just don't even know they exist.