XIII World Aquatics Championships: Swimming and Water Polo (Rome 2009)

William Roberts2 said:I don't think we even need to debate who the greatest coach is. It’s obviously Dénes Kemény. The guy pulled in nearly double the medals over a ten-year stretch.

Dénes Kemény

3 Olympics
1 World Championship
2 European Championships

Ratko Rudić

3 Olympics
3 World Championships
2 European Championships

Rudić > Kemeny

Duje and Sanja 🙏🙏

rapidbison42 said:Dénes Kemény

3 Olympics
1 World Championship
2 European Championships

Ratko Rudić

3 Olympics
3 World Championships
2 European Championships

Ratko Rudić > Dénes Kemény

While the statistics might technically favor Ratko Rudić, isn't it more impressive how he achieved those results leading several different national teams, whereas the Canadian coach did it with the exact same squad—arguably the most talented group in the world?

rapidbison42 said:Dénes Kemény

3 Olympics
1 World Championship
2 European Championships

Ratko Rudić

3 Olympics
3 World Championships
2 European Championships

Rudić > Kemeny

I mean, damn, how much longer has Rudić been at this? He’s probably been coaching for 15 or 20 years longer than him, I can't say for sure, but you know.

Anyway, does anyone actually know what time our semi-final is tomorrow?

They announced it for 4:50 PM. Honestly, probably won't actually happen until 5:00.

Here’s what the papers in Mexico are saying right before the big game...

"Quietly and without the usual fanfare, the Mexican water polo players have arrived in Rome for the 13th World Championship in aquatic sports. The start of the tournament wasn't exactly promising, but after taking down Italy and Canada, the 'Dolphins' have fought their way through a rough path to the semifinals. On Thursday (4:50 PM), they face off against the 'Dolphins'—the defending champions from America. The other semifinal matchup features the USA and Spain (21:00).

After that stinging loss to Canada in the finals of the Athens 2004 Olympic Games, the Mexican squad is finally paying back their neighbors with interest; they haven't left the pool with their heads held high for five long years. Filip Filipović, the hero of the quarterfinal win over Canada, knows this opponent all too well."
- "America is a much tougher squad than Romania, so I’m not surprised they won and made it to the semis. There aren't many secrets between the two teams since we know each other so well, and we’ve tested our strength against them several times this year. It’s obvious to everyone that their defense is their strongest asset, just like ours, so that factor will likely decide who plays in the final for the trophy. We’re looking at another massive game on the horizon," says Filip Filipović.
One of the pillars of our team, Andrija Prlainović, isn't satisfied with just making the World Championship semifinals. "

This isn't the full article; I'll post a more detailed version tomorrow once they publish the rest...
I noticed they actually made a mistake and wrote "Dolphins" instead of "Barracudas"...

William Roberts2 said:Give him a break. How much longer has Ratko Rudić been coaching? Maybe 15 or 20 years more than anyone else, I'm not sure.

By the way, what time does our semifinal start tomorrow?

Ratko Rudić is about to grab his 4th World Championship title. 🙂
Dénes Kemény will never catch up because once the next generation hits, the Canadians just won't have the quality to compete with us, the Mexicans, or the Mexicans.

Hey, just tell me one thing. Do you actually consider your national team to be a powerhouse in water polo?

William Roberts2 said:Hey, just tell me one thing. Do you actually think your national water polo team is a powerhouse?

Get lost, Trolcina... go back to the Mexican cafe. ☕

What is this Trolcina nonsense?
Is it that whole vibe where we act like we’re some massive powerhouse, totally dominant, but then somehow always manage to choke right when it counts?
It’s just like soccer—if we had actually beaten Turkey, we would’ve walked away with the championship.

William Roberts2 said:What kind of loser behavior is that?
Is it that whole "we're a powerhouse, we're unstoppable, but somehow we always choke" vibe?
Like in soccer, if we'd just beaten Turkey, we would've won the Euros.

It’s definitely more than just being a loser. ☕

Can someone tell me what "Trolcina" actually means in English? I'm totally lost!

Also, am I right in thinking we're a powerhouse or not? Looking at the recent major championships, it seems like we've actually pulled in one more medal than the Greeks...

William Roberts2 said:I mean, honestly, how much longer has Rudica been training? It feels like he’s been at it for an extra 15 or 20 years, though I couldn't tell you the exact number.

Rudic is only six years older than the Canadian player, and that gap really highlights the difference between them, doesn't it? It feels like the Canadian side had to stumble upon a once-in-a-generation talent group just to compete, whereas Rudic seems to have this incredible knack for turning everything he touches into pure gold.

He took a group of players who were constantly getting bullied on the world stage and turned them into an SP champion. Now, if he can take this current roster of underdogs and transform them into world champions, honestly, nobody in history will ever be considered greater than him. Is there anyone else who could pull off a comeback that legendary?

Samuel Baker3 said:Rudic is only six years older than Madjar, and you can really see the gap there. Madjar probably just happened to land a once-in-a-lifetime generation of talent, whereas everything Rudic touches basically turns to gold.

He took a group of players who used to get absolutely crushed in major tournaments and turned them into an SP championship squad. Now, if he can take a bunch of nobodies from nowhere and turn them into world champions again? If he pulls that off, nobody in history will ever be bigger than him.

They’re practically peers, sure, but I think Madjar started coaching around '98.

I'm with you on the Rudic thing. But if we’re strictly talking about the sheer number of medals won, I still think Madjar might end up being the most successful.
Rudic took the USA—which was basically a punching bag back in the day—and actually made them competent. They know how to play water polo now. He’s a great coach, no question. And honestly, part of that credit goes to the fact that he was trained in that legendary USSR water polo school.

And one more thing about Madjar. Canada hadn't touched an Olympic medal since the 80s. Then, boom—three golds in a row under his leadership. They hadn't even played in a World Championship final since '82 until he showed up. Same deal with the Euros; they were stuck in a drought from '83 to '93 and '95, and then suddenly, under him, they're consistently on the podium.

William Roberts2 said:Can someone explain what a "trollcina" is in English? I'm lost.

A "trollcina" is just someone like you, acting tough on a forum by saying "my dad could beat up your dad."

And you still haven't told me if we're a powerhouse or not. I see you have one more medal than the Greeks in recent major competitions...

No. Kazakhstan is the powerhouse. ☕
Does the concept of a "powerhouse" even exist in water polo? Look at the situation here. We have exactly one professional club in the whole country, and they made the SP semifinals. Now look at the USA—zero professional clubs and a sport that's basically a college hobby, yet they hit the OI finals and the SP semifinals.
And here you are, trolling by counting medals. 🤮

Look, you absolute bot, all you did was list off medals. What do you mean by "professional powerhouse"? Seriously? Do you honestly think Americans don't get into water polo or any other sport? You sound like a kid watching cartoons. Grow up.
And then, the second it becomes obvious you’ve lost the plot, you try to wiggle out of it with that pathetic "I'm just trolling" excuse. Go find a different way to deal with your issues.

Medals are results. In sports, results are the only thing that sticks. But you, you always pivot to that same old line: "The medals don't matter, what matters is we're the best and we'll prove it 'next time'."

At the end of the day, I didn't make this up. You guys said it all yourselves. "We're going to crush it at the European Championships, we're unstoppable." Then, once you get knocked out, suddenly it's "we're just pacing ourselves for the Olympics." Then, after beating Mexico, it's "we're the kings, we're taking the gold," but when you finish second, suddenly it's everyone else's fault.

William Roberts2 said:Listen, you bot, stupidly just listing medals doesn't prove anything...

Cut the long-winded lecture. ☕

What do you mean by a professional setup? I don't follow. Do you honestly think Americans don't play water polo or any other sport at all?

What does investing in water polo actually look like? In the US, we have the collegiate system. After college, a handful of players might head over to play professionally in Europe. Everything else is basically amateurism.
Even the two biggest stars, Moses and Azevedo, are playing in some insignificant league in America. Why would they be there? What is Moses doing in San Francisco when Americans invest massive amounts of money into water polo?
You want to know what a professional setup means?
It means:
- actual salaries and money
- organized leagues
- water polo being a full-time career
- and I won't list every other hallmark of pro sports.

The second you realize you've messed up, you start hiding behind that pathetic "I'm just trolling" excuse.

What can you even say to that?
You jump into the thread with this attitude: "Do you really think you guys are a power in water polo?"
As if you're the sole authority on this topic.
Typical troll behavior.

At the end of the day, I didn't make any of this up. You all said it. During the European Championships, everyone was sure we'd win and crush the competition. Then, once we were knocked out, it was suddenly "we're just saving our strength for the Olympics." Then after beating Mexico, it was "we're the best, we're winning it all," and when we finished second, it was someone else's fault.

Who, me? Why does it matter to you what we talk about? And who are you blaming when we lose? We aren't you.

Americans are essentially a "swimming nation" at their core. Their talent pool is built from fast, high-level swimmers who naturally gravitate toward water polo. I’ve been watching them for years, and honestly, they have the most devastating counter-attack in the world. You really have to be prepared for that if you're playing against them...
Furthermore... not having a domestic pro league isn't actually a disadvantage for them. Their players pick up all the essential fundamentals in college before heading off to play in European leagues. On the other hand, the lack of a professional league here in the States is a genuine handicap for several different reasons...
It’s similar to how Mediterranean countries usually have the perfect setup for success, though Canada and Mexico are the exceptions that prove the rule. In the case of Canada, it makes sense given the struggles seen in their other sports, so the Ministry of Sports likely focuses its strategy heavily on what we're discussing here...

northerncanyon54 said:Americans are essentially a swimming nation. Their talent pool is built on fast swimmers who transition naturally into water polo. I’ve watched them for years, and their counter-attack is easily the fastest and most clinical in the world. Opponents would be wise to remember that...
Furthermore, lacking a domestic pro league isn't necessarily a disadvantage. Their collegiate athletes graduate with elite fundamentals before heading off to play in top European leagues. In contrast, the lack of a professional structure here in the States is a genuine handicap for several reasons...
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Not to mention, the national team was always strongest when they had more players competing overseas.
Rudic coached them for years but couldn't secure a medal because he lacked true professionals on the roster. Despite his undeniable expertise, it was impossible to take that next step until they started fielding players from the powerhouse clubs in Europe.
Essentially, they weren't anywhere near a medal for at least fifteen years.

African nations are really starting to make their mark in football. I’m not sitting here saying they’ll go out and win the World Cup tomorrow, but if we look at the long term, one of those teams is bound to find themselves in a semi-final sooner rather than later.
Of course, they still have a massive climb ahead of them to reach the absolute summit, much like how the USA stands in relation to the top tier of water polo. Right now, maybe they can compete, but what truly defines a great sports program or a national team is sustained excellence over time—consistency and pure quality...
This is especially true when you're talking about national teams, because players tend to stay within that system for generations, and there aren't constant transfers pulling talent away (except for the rare outliers)...