Air embolism: What are the risks?

I find myself wondering about the physiological consequences if one were to inject 5 ml of air directly into a vein.

It is frequently cited as a method of self-destruction, which leads me to ponder the specific mechanisms by which such an act induces fatality—is there a definitive certainty regarding death following such an occurrence?

brightpilot12 said:I find myself wondering about the physiological consequences if one were to inject 5 ml of air directly into a vein.

It is frequently cited as a method of self-destruction, which leads me to ponder the specific mechanisms by which such an act induces fatality—is there a definitive certainty regarding death following such an occurrence?

It triggers a heart attack, guaranteed.

Angela Wright said:It triggers a heart attack, guaranteed.

Fair enough, but one has to wonder—what exactly is driving it to such an extreme?

brightpilot12 said:I find myself wondering about the physiological consequences if one were to inject 5 ml of air directly into a vein.

It is frequently cited as a method of self-destruction, which leads me to ponder the specific mechanisms by which such an act induces fatality—is there a definitive certainty regarding death following such an occurrence?

Honestly, 5 ml probably wouldn't even do anything to you. Most likely nothing at all. Usually, you're looking at a "danger zone" starting around 20 ml or more before things get really scary.

When you get enough air in there—I mean a significant amount—it causes a pulmonary air embolism. It's not a heart attack, per se. Basically, all that air traveling through the veins hits a branch of the pulmonary artery and acts just like a massive blood clot. If it's a large enough bubble, you end up with a massive pulmonary embolism. If it's a smaller amount, the symptoms can be all over the place. You might deal with everything from mild discomfort to absolutely terrifying chest pain, shortness of breath, and feeling like you can't catch your breath... stuff like that. Regardless of how much air is involved, it's a gamble; someone could die, or they might just walk away from it.
If you're actually thinking about checking out, please find a better way to handle things. You could end up stuck in a state where you're still conscious but suffering, which is a nightmare.

Scott Allen10 said:Honestly, 5 ml probably wouldn't even do anything to you. Most likely nothing at all. Usually, you're looking at a "danger zone" starting around 20 ml or more before things get really scary.

When you get enough air in there—I mean a significant amount—it causes a pulmonary air embolism. It's not a heart attack, per se. Basically, all that air traveling through the veins hits a branch of the pulmonary artery and acts just like a massive blood clot. If it's a large enough bubble, you end up with a massive pulmonary embolism. If it's a smaller amount, the symptoms can be all over the place. You might deal with everything from mild discomfort to absolutely terrifying chest pain, shortness of breath, and feeling like you can't catch your breath... stuff like that. Regardless of how much air is involved, it's a gamble; someone could die, or they might just walk away from it.
If you're actually thinking about checking out, please find a better way to handle things. You could end up stuck in a state where you're still conscious but suffering, which is a nightmare.

I realize that last sentence was a joke... but whatever, maybe for people who are actually seriously considering this kind of stuff, it isn't funny, so I think we should still be careful...

I mean, someone who’s actually planning on checking out isn't exactly going to be hanging around here posting on the forums right before they do it...
(sorry for the off-topic tangent)

Scott Allen10 said:Honestly, 5 ml probably wouldn't even do anything to you. Most likely nothing at all. Usually, you're looking at a "danger zone" starting around 20 ml or more before things get really scary.

When you get enough air in there—I mean a significant amount—it causes a pulmonary air embolism. It's not a heart attack, per se. Basically, all that air traveling through the veins hits a branch of the pulmonary artery and acts just like a massive blood clot. If it's a large enough bubble, you end up with a massive pulmonary embolism. If it's a smaller amount, the symptoms can be all over the place. You might deal with everything from mild discomfort to absolutely terrifying chest pain, shortness of breath, and feeling like you can't catch your breath... stuff like that. Regardless of how much air is involved, it's a gamble; someone could die, or they might just walk away from it.
If you're actually thinking about checking out, please find a better way to handle things. You could end up stuck in a state where you're still conscious but suffering, which is a nightmare.

I appreciate the response. I am not planning on any such drastic measures; I simply heard this information mentioned elsewhere and found myself curious as to why the mechanics work that way.

placidtinker80 said:I realize that last sentence was a joke... but whatever, maybe for people who are actually seriously considering this kind of stuff, it isn't funny, so I think we should still be careful...

You know what... honestly, it isn't even a joke... and believe me, it’s not some kind of "brutality" either...

See, after spending 20 years dealing with anesthesia and surgery, me and most of the crew on my unit have seen it all—every time someone comes in after trying to end it all with pills, cutting, or whatever else... almost every single time we patch them up, stitch them back together, and pull out the tubes, we pretty much "suggest" they just take an > pipe to the mouth and pull the trigger next time... there's no mistake there... especially when they aren't making life a living hell for everyone around them or playing these little games with us....

When you spend years watching people fight tooth and nail just to hold onto a miserable life, desperate to escape illness or recover from an injury... and then you see these suicidal types who absolutely loathe that same life... hm... well, I don't really care much, even though most of them probably need a psychiatrist...

Man, maybe it's just professional burnout... maybe I've just gone numb... call it whatever you want...

Damn... I'm gonna have to give myself a warning card for going off-topic...☕

Scott Allen10 said:You know what... honestly, it isn't even a joke... and believe me, it’s not some kind of "brutality" either...

See, after spending 20 years dealing with anesthesia and surgery, me and most of the crew on my unit have seen it all—every time someone comes in after trying to end it all with pills, cutting, or whatever else... almost every single time we patch them up, stitch them back together, and pull out the tubes, we pretty much "suggest" they just take an > pipe to the mouth and pull the trigger next time... there's no mistake there... especially when they aren't making life a living hell for everyone around them or playing these little games with us....

When you spend years watching people fight tooth and nail just to hold onto a miserable life, desperate to escape illness or recover from an injury... and then you see these suicidal types who absolutely loathe that same life... hm... well, I don't really care much, even though most of them probably need a psychiatrist...

Man, maybe it's just professional burnout... maybe I've just gone numb... call it whatever you want...

Damn... I'm gonna have to give myself a warning card for going off-topic...☕

I realize this is off-topic, and I'll probably get flagged for it, but I don't care... I just need to comment on that bolded part. Back in 2009, I was diagnosed with a disease that is currently incurable. It was less than a month before my 19th birthday when I found out. When I got the news, I literally got out of bed and walked right out in front of the hospital just to prove to myself how strong I actually am! On the flip side, one of my "friends" at the exact same time broke up with her boyfriend and attempted suicide. Do I feel sorry for her? No. If someone wants to kill themselves, let them; they're a coward anyway!

Or they’re clinically depressed. ☕
They don't necessarily need a specific trigger; sometimes the illness itself just strips away your basic survival instinct, so I would be incredibly careful about judging anyone who takes their own life. And yeah, to echo what Scott Allen10 said—most of them really do need psychiatric help. But that isn't an excuse to mock or look down on them; these people are genuinely suffering.

That’s all well and good in theory, but I’ve personally met far too many people who would actually try to kill you over something stupid. It’s not that I have anything against everyone, but looking at the people in my own neck of the woods, there are just way too many of them.

Generally speaking, if I may just circle back to the beginning of this discussion, the minimum lethal dose for an average adult is roughly 40 mL—just providing some information for academic purposes 😉

swiftpanther52 said:That’s all well and good in theory, but I’ve personally met far too many people who would actually try to kill you over something stupid. It’s not that I have anything against everyone, but looking at the people in my own neck of the woods, there are just way too many of them.

-Great, now we're both going to get banned for off-topic posting, but let's be honest, Scott Allen10 is the one who kicked off the season here.

Come on, tell me—you've actually met that many people in your local area who attempted suicide??

I mean, in my entire life, I haven't personally met anyone who attempted suicide; I don't even know someone through a friend of a friend, and I live in New York City and I'm about 15 years older than you. I think this is the first time I've ever actually asked someone this—where exactly do you live?

*Correction to my previous point: I can recall two cases of suicide that I heard about second or third-hand—one was about 18 years ago, and the other was a few years back outside the US.

In my relatively short time on this planet, I've lived in several different places, and through it all—whether it was during my clinical rotations at the hospital or just while dealing with my own health issues—I’ve crossed paths with quite a few people. You start to see a pattern when these kinds of tragedies cluster together. For instance, about a decade ago, a family friend took their own life. Then, just two or three years back, a neighbor did the same. There was even a neighbor who overdosed on pills, though thankfully they were found in time... and so on. I don't really feel like dwelling on those memories right now...

brightpilot12 said:I find myself wondering about the physiological consequences if one were to inject 5 ml of air directly into a vein.

It is frequently cited as a method of self-destruction, which leads me to ponder the specific mechanisms by which such an act induces fatality—is there a definitive certainty regarding death following such an occurrence?

In my opinion, anesthesia before surgery is the easiest and most painless way to die.🙂 You just have to get lucky enough to find a compassionate anesthesiologist who gives you a bit too much.

Sam Hall15 said:Generally speaking, if I may just circle back to the beginning of this discussion, the minimum lethal dose for an average adult is roughly 40 mL—just providing some information for academic purposes 😉

I had a bit of a momentary panic attack... I’m currently hooked up to an IV, and right after they got everything set up, I looked down and saw—without a doubt—air bubbles in the tubing that had just gone straight into my vein.😕I don’t know exactly how much, but one thing is for certain—it's incredibly dangerous, even if you think you could just jump right in without a second thought.
Has this already happened, or is there a chance it could happen later down the road?
I need an answer ASAP! Please!

Those are tiny amounts of air, honestly. It's really not going to affect you... there's no need to freak out over nothing.

Thanks. It was definitely more than just some minor hiccups—one part of it felt totally hollow... and I don't know, I start spiraling whenever things just go sideways on me like this...
I went in for what should have been a routine surgery, but five days later, I’m hit with a fever that I’ve been fighting for ten straight days now. Now they're treating me in the hospital for sepsis, though honestly, looking at how things have played out, I’m not even sure if that’s actually what’s happening. To make matters worse, after taking those antibiotics from the ENT specialists, my liver levels took a hit—which I'm hoping is just a side effect of the meds—and so on... basically, I'm stuck dealing with all of this on top of everything else because of someone's sheer negligence. At this point? I don't trust anyone.😕

Scott Allen10 said:You know what... honestly, it isn't even a joke... and believe me, it’s not some kind of "brutality" either...

See, after spending 20 years dealing with anesthesia and surgery, me and most of the crew on my unit have seen it all—every time someone comes in after trying to end it all with pills, cutting, or whatever else... almost every single time we patch them up, stitch them back together, and pull out the tubes, we pretty much "suggest" they just take an > pipe to the mouth and pull the trigger next time... there's no mistake there... especially when they aren't making life a living hell for everyone around them or playing these little games with us....

When you spend years watching people fight tooth and nail just to hold onto a miserable life, desperate to escape illness or recover from an injury... and then you see these suicidal types who absolutely loathe that same life... hm... well, I don't really care much, even though most of them probably need a psychiatrist...

Man, maybe it's just professional burnout... maybe I've just gone numb... call it whatever you want...

Damn... I'm gonna have to give myself a warning card for going off-topic...☕

👎That is incredibly tasteless, especially when you’re acting tough toward people who are likely dealing with severe psychological struggles. Those individuals need psychiatrists, not technicians playing games.

Furthermore, according to the United States Code:

Section 96.

(1) Whoever encourages another to commit suicide or assists in their suicide, resulting in death,
shall be punished by imprisonment from six months to three years.

Imagine if someone actually followed your advice with a firearm and left a note thanking you for the help. Do you really want to be responsible for blowing out a mentally ill person's brain? Do you want to land yourself and your coworkers in prison? Is there even a shred of compassion or humanity left under that uniform?

☕

then half of the Alternative medicine crowd could be charged with manslaughter under the United States Code ☕