Movies as a commodity

Jesse Thomas7 said:Haha, well... here I go again, standing alone against the entire crowd. Honestly, I’m surprised I even made it through that last round without getting shut down. But look, let’s get back to the actual point before everyone starts trolling me—do you guys seriously believe that movies, on a global scale, haven't just become nothing more than mass-produced commodities designed to be shoved down as many people's throats as possible? I mean, sure, there are always those rare exceptions that break the mold, but for the most part, it's just a product being pushed.

No, they haven't "become" that. They always have been.

Lisa Ross65 said:Look, there is the actual film industry and then there is the factory line churning out mindless junk. It’s on you to choose. Some people here tell you they have endless pages of reviews to browse through. Personally, I rely heavily on Rotten Tomatoes. These days, dropping $25 or $30 at an AMC Theatres for some absolute garbage is a hard pill to swallow. For years now, I've been selective about what I see in theaters—I steer clear of the trash because I refuse to waste money on a bad ticket. That said, I'll happily pay for Paramount Pictures, Warner Bros., Netflix, or Disney. Occasionally, I'll go into a movie knowing it might not be great, but I go in prepared and I don't complain.

Yeah, okay, fair enough, but I’m going to say it for the hundredth time: just because the masses love a movie, or because it has *stellar* reviews, doesn't mean you're going to enjoy it. It’s like how a certain pair of jeans might look killer on everyone EXCEPT you. You can try those jeans on before you buy them to see if they actually work for your frame, rather than just trusting that they look great on someone else. Whether those jeans suit you is a SUBJECTIVE opinion, and liking a movie is exactly the same way.
The real kicker is that trailers and advertisements are specifically engineered to mask every single flaw in a film—they're basically selling you a product that doesn't even exist.
I honestly think it would be amazing—and hey, I'll go ahead and put on my bulletproof vest now because I know people are going to come for me for suggesting this—but it would be great if studios were forced to release the first 15-20 minutes of a movie for FREE instead of pumping out these mindless trailers. That’s more than enough time to figure out if you're being played or not. If you still want to see the rest? Fine, pay the price then.

northerncrane4 said:No, they haven't "become" that. They always have been.

Some people are clearly convinced otherwise—like this whole "commercialization" thing is some brand-new issue that just popped up. I hear those tired old clichés all the time about how things used to be better. They weren't.

The sheer volume of movies has exploded over the years, and the number of cash grabs has spiked right along with it. Acting like discovering that movies are made to make money in 2011 is some groundbreaking realization is just stating the obvious.

What's even funnier to me is all the whining and bitching lately, especially since movies are cheaper and easier to access now than they ever were.

It’s like, I paid the hooker and she didn't perform. Now I want my money back. That's not how it works.

Amores Perros—life's a bitch.

Jesse Thomas7 said:Yeah, okay, fair enough, but I’m going to say it for the hundredth time: just because the masses love a movie, or because it has *stellar* reviews, doesn't mean you're going to enjoy it. It’s like how a certain pair of jeans might look killer on everyone EXCEPT you. You can try those jeans on before you buy them to see if they actually work for your frame, rather than just trusting that they look great on someone else. Whether those jeans suit you is a SUBJECTIVE opinion, and liking a movie is exactly the same way.
The real kicker is that trailers and advertisements are specifically engineered to mask every single flaw in a film—they're basically selling you a product that doesn't even exist.
I honestly think it would be amazing—and hey, I'll go ahead and put on my bulletproof vest now because I know people are going to come for me for suggesting this—but it would be great if studios were forced to release the first 15-20 minutes of a movie for FREE instead of pumping out these mindless trailers. That’s more than enough time to figure out if you're being played or not. If you still want to see the rest? Fine, pay the price then.

Seriously, after all the trailers you've watched, you still haven't learned your lesson?

I think it would be awesome—and yeah, I’m putting on my bulletproof vest because everyone's gonna want to shoot me for this idea—if studios were forced to release the first 15-20 minutes of a movie for FREE instead of wasting money on useless trailers. That's enough time to see if you're actually interested or not. If someone wants to watch the rest, they can pay.

What if soccer players played the first 20 minutes for free? You know, just check it out, and if you like it, you pay. If not, you don't.

Jesse Thomas7 said:Haha, well... here I go again, standing alone against the entire crowd. Honestly, I’m surprised I even made it through that last round without getting shut down. But look, let’s get back to the actual point before everyone starts trolling me—do you guys seriously believe that movies, on a global scale, haven't just become nothing more than mass-produced commodities designed to be shoved down as many people's throats as possible? I mean, sure, there are always those rare exceptions that break the mold, but for the most part, it's just a product being pushed.

One segment of film production has been focused on pushing content to the widest possible audience since almost 1895.😁 It’s only logical; filmmaking is an incredibly expensive art form, and in any studio system operating on market principles, you have to turn a profit to keep the cameras rolling.

There are plenty of "exceptions," so cinema isn't dying. Top-tier films are produced all over the globe, and nowadays, it’s actually easier than ever to make a movie on a shoestring budget. We constantly hear about innovative concepts where films are shot for next to nothing. Think American indies, Dogme 95, or Romanian cinema... there isn't massive money involved, it's not treated as a commodity, yet great films still emerge.

Today when you film, filmmakers have access to affordable digital technology and the internet acts as a godsend for promoting their work. As viewers, we definitely don't have to rely solely on the major studios anymore. From that perspective, industrial film production isn't inherently bad; if anything, we audiences often benefit from the coexistence of true art and the industry.

Walter Grant5 said:Seriously, after all the trailers you've watched, you still haven't learned your lesson?

I think it would be awesome—and yeah, I’m putting on my bulletproof vest because everyone's gonna want to shoot me for this idea—if studios were forced to release the first 15-20 minutes of a movie for FREE instead of wasting money on useless trailers. That's enough time to see if you're actually interested or not. If someone wants to watch the rest, they can pay.

What if soccer players played the first 20 minutes for free? You know, just check it out, and if you like it, you pay. If not, you don't.

See, it’s because of that exact mindset—honestly, please, keep lying to me, I really don't mind, sell me a bridge, don't even bother scoring goals, just film garbage...—that soccer players and Brad Pitt end up with money coming out of their ears, while we sit here yapping away and praying to God that inflation finally stops rising...
Besides, your analogy is totally off base—it would be like soccer players running onto the field and starting to play basketball instead, or like Inter Miami CF showing up to play against a local high school team from San Francisco.

Jesse Thomas7 said:Yeah, okay, fair enough, but I’m going to say it for the hundredth time: just because the masses love a movie, or because it has *stellar* reviews, doesn't mean you're going to enjoy it. It’s like how a certain pair of jeans might look killer on everyone EXCEPT you. You can try those jeans on before you buy them to see if they actually work for your frame, rather than just trusting that they look great on someone else. Whether those jeans suit you is a SUBJECTIVE opinion, and liking a movie is exactly the same way.
The real kicker is that trailers and advertisements are specifically engineered to mask every single flaw in a film—they're basically selling you a product that doesn't even exist.
I honestly think it would be amazing—and hey, I'll go ahead and put on my bulletproof vest now because I know people are going to come for me for suggesting this—but it would be great if studios were forced to release the first 15-20 minutes of a movie for FREE instead of pumping out these mindless trailers. That’s more than enough time to figure out if you're being played or not. If you still want to see the rest? Fine, pay the price then.

There is no fixing subjective perception. For instance, I actually had fun watching Wanted with Angelina Jolie, even though based on my own logic and principles, I shouldn't have liked it—it was mindless, cliché, overproduced, and illogical. Still, I enjoyed it; it was a total "guilty pleasure." Most people I talked to thought the movie was trash. Whether you like a film or not is entirely your own business, which is ultimately shaped by your education, what you've read, your film knowledge, and your personal tastes.

It’s honestly such a pain having to research a movie before you even watch it just to avoid spoilers. It’s a pretty interesting topic, though. And sure, the self-righteous cops and the symbiote fans can go ahead and act all high and mighty about it. 😁

Just kidding. Heh... 🙄. Instead of just tearing into a young lady (presumably 🙂), there could have been a much more interesting debate regarding ticket prices for an art event. I think someone mentioned the possibility of a commission being formed to decide those rates. Though, technically, if a movie is total garbage, they should probably charge more for it—which kind of defeats the whole point of asking for a refund if the "art" turns out to be crap. 🤔

neonsurfer6 said:One segment of film production has been focused on pushing content to the widest possible audience since almost 1895.😁 It’s only logical; filmmaking is an incredibly expensive art form, and in any studio system operating on market principles, you have to turn a profit to keep the cameras rolling.

There are plenty of "exceptions," so cinema isn't dying. Top-tier films are produced all over the globe, and nowadays, it’s actually easier than ever to make a movie on a shoestring budget. We constantly hear about innovative concepts where films are shot for next to nothing. Think American indies, Dogme 95, or Romanian cinema... there isn't massive money involved, it's not treated as a commodity, yet great films still emerge.

Today when you film, filmmakers have access to affordable digital technology and the internet acts as a godsend for promoting their work. As viewers, we definitely don't have to rely solely on the major studios anymore. From that perspective, industrial film production isn't inherently bad; if anything, we audiences often benefit from the coexistence of true art and the industry.

Exactly. It’s just that marketing wasn't even what it is today a hundred years ago. Modern marketing has only really been around for about fifty years, whereas film itself is much older. The lack of artistic freedom in classic Hollywood was on a completely different level compared to what we see now.

Lisa Ross65 said:There is no fixing subjective perception. For instance, I actually had fun watching Wanted with Angelina Jolie, even though based on my own logic and principles, I shouldn't have liked it—it was mindless, cliché, overproduced, and illogical. Still, I enjoyed it; it was a total "guilty pleasure." Most people I talked to thought the movie was trash. Whether you like a film or not is entirely your own business, which is ultimately shaped by your education, what you've read, your film knowledge, and your personal tastes.

That’s exactly my point—since everything is so subjective, why on earth should I feel forced to rely on what everyone else thinks? Just let me sit through the first 15 minutes; if I'm feeling it, I'll happily pay full price to see it through to the end. Besides, being highly educated or having "refined" cinematic tastes doesn't always go hand in hand. I personally know a PhD in physics who is absolutely obsessed with Jim Carrey and basically rolls on the floor laughing the second he shows up on screen. He's his favorite actor, hands down. Then again, I also know a long-haul trucker who could probably rattle off every single Romanian, Russian, Dutch, or New Zealander art-house film ever made and explain the deep subtext you completely missed... The paths to the human heart are strange, haha.

Henry Campbell5 said:It’s honestly such a pain having to research a movie before you even watch it just to avoid spoilers. It’s a pretty interesting topic, though. And sure, the self-righteous cops and the symbiote fans can go ahead and act all high and mighty about it. 😁

Just kidding. Heh... 🙄. Instead of just tearing into a young lady (presumably 🙂), there could have been a much more interesting debate regarding ticket prices for an art event. I think someone mentioned the possibility of a commission being formed to decide those rates. Though, technically, if a movie is total garbage, they should probably charge more for it—which kind of defeats the whole point of asking for a refund if the "art" turns out to be crap. 🤔

HALLELUJAH! Amen to that. Seriously, WHY on earth should I have to spend days playing detective, scouring forums, and reading reviews—which, let's be real, won't actually tell me if *I'll* personally enjoy it—when I could just walk in, feel the vibe, sense the direction of the film, and decide for myself whether it's my thing?
It's like people have stopped caring about the actual cinematic experience itself. Now, everyone's obsessed with the chat threads, the bonus features, trivia from the set, how much weight an actor lost for a role, what the director's next or previous projects were, and so on and so forth...

Jesse Thomas7 said:See, it’s because of that exact mindset—honestly, please, keep lying to me, I really don't mind, sell me a bridge, don't even bother scoring goals, just film garbage...—that soccer players and Brad Pitt end up with money coming out of their ears, while we sit here yapping away and praying to God that inflation finally stops rising...
Besides, your analogy is totally off base—it would be like soccer players running onto the field and starting to play basketball instead, or like Inter Miami CF showing up to play against a local high school team from San Francisco.

They have "money coming out of their ears" because society exists, which is why they do what they do and get paid. Feel free to stay in your rebellious little bubble and stop feeding their pockets with your attention.

By the way, that analogy is a stretch—that would be like soccer players running onto the pitch and playing basketball instead, or if Inter Miami CF showed up instead of Barcelona.

Analogy holds up fine. If soccer players played basketball, they'd be playing non-soccer. You watched a bad movie at the movie theater, not a non-movie.

Jesse Thomas7 said:HALLELUJAH! Amen to that. Seriously, WHY on earth should I have to spend days playing detective, scouring forums, and reading reviews—which, let's be real, won't actually tell me if *I'll* personally enjoy it—when I could just walk in, feel the vibe, sense the direction of the film, and decide for myself whether it's my thing?
It's like people have stopped caring about the actual cinematic experience itself. Now, everyone's obsessed with the chat threads, the bonus features, trivia from the set, how much weight an actor lost for a role, what the director's next or previous projects were, and so on and so forth...

A movie doesn't require any more research before buying than any other product on the market.

Look, if I'm buying a house in some fancy neighborhood, why would I have to act like a private investigator, checking out millions of tiny details like the layout, the local shops, parking spots, or the social makeup of the neighbors? Because I don't want to screw up and throw my money away.

Walter Grant5 said:They have "money coming out of their ears" because society exists, which is why they do what they do and get paid. Feel free to stay in your rebellious little bubble and stop feeding their pockets with your attention.

By the way, that analogy is a stretch—that would be like soccer players running onto the pitch and playing basketball instead, or if Inter Miami CF showed up instead of Barcelona.

Analogy holds up fine. If soccer players played basketball, they'd be playing non-soccer. You watched a bad movie at the movie theater, not a non-movie.

I once watched a film where the creators swore up and down it was a soccer movie, but it was basically just basketball on screen. 👍
Trust me on this one. It's exactly like that. And honestly, it's not even the first time they've pulled that stunt.

Jesse Thomas7 said:I’m honestly at a loss with this one, so if anyone has some actual insight—maybe an argument that won't make me feel totally ripped off, played for a fool, or just plain exhausted every single time I walk out of a movie theater—please throw it my way.
Look, in today's world, consumers actually have rights, right? If you buy a shirt and it falls apart after the first wash, you take it back. If the food you bought is spoiled, you get a refund, and so on, and so forth.
What I can't wrap my head around is why ART (and let's call movies and music that, even if that's debatable) is completely exempt from any kind of accountability toward a dissatisfied customer. How is it possible that this is the one industry where you HAVE to buy completely blind? No matter what, you have to pay for the film—whether it’s a streaming sub, a Blu-ray, or a ticket at AMC Theatres—but if the experience is absolute garbage, who do you even complain to? You paid your money, and that's it. It's gone.
Of course, that's exactly why more and more people are turning to piracy. They’ve been straight-up scammed so many times that they're just looking for a way to actually SEE what they're paying for first (which is honestly such an unthinkable level of audacity!), though of course, that makes the artists who churn out the exact same trash incredibly angry.
Thanks for listening, but I just finished watching Tron: Legacy ($12) and that was truly the final straw for me...
I actually posted this over on the Legal forum too, because I am genuinely curious how they managed to become more protected from unhappy customers than a Siberian tiger.
Long live Quentin Tarantino, though; he's the only one I'll keep buying into blindly...

What you purchased with that ticket was the experience of viewing and consuming the final product created by a creative and technical crew—the product was fully consumed. You got your money's worth out of every single shitty, terrible movie you watch. It's etched into your brain cells now, and there isn't a neurosurgeon alive who can cut it out.
There are no refunds.

I've actually gotten my money back a few times by walking out halfway through a movie and complaining about the technical quality of the projection.

Jesse Thomas7 said:HALLELUJAH! Amen to that. Seriously, WHY on earth should I have to spend days playing detective, scouring forums, and reading reviews—which, let's be real, won't actually tell me if *I'll* personally enjoy it—when I could just walk in, feel the vibe, sense the direction of the film, and decide for myself whether it's my thing?
It's like people have stopped caring about the actual cinematic experience itself. Now, everyone's obsessed with the chat threads, the bonus features, trivia from the set, how much weight an actor lost for a role, what the director's next or previous projects were, and so on and so forth...

LOL

Tell me, when you buy a shirt or some jeans... do you just grab them off the rack, head home, and then realize they don't fit at all? Or do you try them on at the store first? When you're buying a house... aren't you going to actually look at the place before signing the papers?

I was just looking back at this line from the original post...

I'm curious why ART (let's call movies and music that, even if it's debatable) is completely exempt from any responsibility toward an unhappy customer. How is it possible that this is the one industry where YOU HAVE TO BUY COMPLETELY BLIND.

Don't take this personally because I'm not trying to attack anyone... but a statement like that is just total nonsense today, especially that bolded part.
Nowadays, a movie is anything but a product you buy blindly. There was a time when you really did watch movies blind... I remember going to the movie theater without having any clue what the film was about, other than who was in the cast or maybe the genre. Honestly, that was way more fun than it is now. You'd walk out of the theater either thrilled or disappointed. Same goes for video rental stores! Nothing beat walking into a rental shop and spending "three days" picking something out because you knew nothing about the films—you just went by the actors, the cover art, or a solid synopsis on the back.

That doesn't exist anymore. Everything is served to you on a silver platter... from trailers to screenshots and endless comments on forums and sites like IMDb or Rotten Tomatoes. You can build up specific expectations for almost any film, which helps you pick something that actually fits your taste.

So, if someone says they know nothing about a movie today, it looks more like they're being lazy about finding info rather than the movie itself being unpredictable.

Basically... the answer to your "why would I..." is so you can actually make better use of the time you spend watching a movie. Instead of wandering aimlessly, you're heading in the right direction.

Roger Allen3 said:A movie doesn't require any more research before buying than any other product on the market.

Look, if I'm buying a house in some fancy neighborhood, why would I have to act like a private investigator, checking out millions of tiny details like the layout, the local shops, parking spots, or the social makeup of the neighbors? Because I don't want to screw up and throw my money away.

Real estate is expensive, and you're stuck with it for decades. Of course you need to do your homework. With a movie, I just check the director, the cast, or the poster. Honestly, the trailer gives me more than enough info. Nolan, DiCaprio, whatever. You end up with a bit of a gamble anyway. There is zero chance I'm spending half my day reading up on a movie I haven't even seen yet.

Roger Allen3 said:A movie doesn't require any more research before buying than any other product on the market.

Look, if I'm buying a house in some fancy neighborhood, why would I have to act like a private investigator, checking out millions of tiny details like the layout, the local shops, parking spots, or the social makeup of the neighbors? Because I don't want to screw up and throw my money away.

Whatever, man. If you see the apartment and it's a total dump—just DON'T BUY IT. You're left with that choice.
The fact that a film studio thinks they can throw you in jail just because you downloaded their movies without permission proves they acknowledge they HAVE A PRODUCT they want to SELL. So, they should be held to the exact same laws and regulations as anyone else selling a product—namely, that the buyer actually knows what they're getting, and gets compensated if they were misled about what they bought. I'm heading to see my lawyer right now; I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow. This could honestly be the biggest legal precedent in the entire US judicial system when I sue them all down the line for denying us this right! It's Me vs. Universal Pictures. I'll buy you all Ferraris once I'm done with them, thanks to all the motivation you guys gave me, hahahahaha

Jesse Thomas7 said:I once watched a film where the creators swore up and down it was a soccer movie, but it was basically just basketball on screen. 👍
Trust me on this one. It's exactly like that. And honestly, it's not even the first time they've pulled that stunt.

That wasn't what my analogy was getting at, but whatever.

Ever seen an ad actually trying to hook customers by saying: THIS PRODUCT SUCKS! - nah, right?

Jesse Thomas7 said:HALLELUJAH! Amen to that. Seriously, WHY on earth should I have to spend days playing detective, scouring forums, and reading reviews—which, let's be real, won't actually tell me if *I'll* personally enjoy it—when I could just walk in, feel the vibe, sense the direction of the film, and decide for myself whether it's my thing?
It's like people have stopped caring about the actual cinematic experience itself. Now, everyone's obsessed with the chat threads, the bonus features, trivia from the set, how much weight an actor lost for a role, what the director's next or previous projects were, and so on and so forth...

To each their own. Personally, I don't care for that stuff. If you do, that's on you for consuming that kind of garbage. You can't really complain about it later.

Henry Campbell5 said:It’s honestly such a pain having to research a movie before you even watch it just to avoid spoilers. It’s a pretty interesting topic, though. And sure, the self-righteous cops and the symbiote fans can go ahead and act all high and mighty about it. 😁

Just kidding. Heh... 🙄. Instead of just tearing into a young lady (presumably 🙂), there could have been a much more interesting debate regarding ticket prices for an art event. I think someone mentioned the possibility of a commission being formed to decide those rates. Though, technically, if a movie is total garbage, they should probably charge more for it—which kind of defeats the whole point of asking for a refund if the "art" turns out to be crap. 🤔

Trying to set a standard for something like that would be totally subjective and pretty much useless.

Look, Jesse Thomas7, you’re actually rooting for something that already exists—it just hasn't gone mainstream yet (give it time!)

"Pay what you want"
It’s an option some legendary bands—like Radiohead—already use, and even some indie films (check this out: http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/)

Basically, you watch the thing, and if you feel like paying, you do. If not? No biggie, nobody loses out. But honestly, most people still fight against it—mostly because they don't want to shake up the whole parasitic system built around the film industry. Plus, people hate having to take responsibility for their own failures (see my "summa summarum" point below)