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SICKO

Started by placidfox55 · · 👁 6 views · 33 replies

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Participants placidfox55Sandra King86Paul Garcia25Mark Johnson5redowl90David Price5Amanda Morris3quietdriver3Samuel Smith5rapidbear20Brian Nelson4ironfalcon9Olivia Martin6Hannah VaughnAnthony Kim18Linda Gonzalez16Maria Fox4Jack Campbell59
quietdriver3 quietdriver3 Regular
290 messages
joined Mar 2005
#21 ·
John Robinson said:Are you talking about a country where athletes show up to international competitions just to figure out how to flee the very nation they’re supposedly representing?

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the Cuban healthcare system... you know, the one that draws in maybe 20,000 desperate people every year—people who usually come from the countries everyone else is trying to "escape" from—just because they're looking for medical care that's actually affordable and decent.
Samuel Smith5 Samuel Smith5 Active Member
61 messages
joined Apr 2007
#22 ·
John Robinson said:You honestly expect doctors—people who spend over a decade in training—to be nothing more than free labor? You think every single supply needed for a surgical procedure should just be handed out for zero cost? Give me a break. That kind of mindset is exactly why our education system is failing, why healthcare is a mess, and why the bureaucracy is such a nightmare. Everyone wants everything for free, and then they turn around and curse the very country that’s bleeding money trying to accommodate them. Try taking that same logic to an auto insurer or a life insurance company and see how quickly they show you the door.

Firefighters, the police, public schools—they aren't "free." It’s pretty obvious you aren't grasping how this works, so let me break it down for you. We all fund the healthcare system together. Next time you swing by a 7-Eleven to grab a Slim Jim, just remember that you already handed over 22% of your money to the IRS. 👍

John Robinson said:You might as well just tell them they get a free car, a free high-end gaming rig, a massive 17-inch laptop, and a free hookup every single night while they sit there watching reality TV during prime time. It’s all just noise at this point.

Look, when we talk about things like free transportation or universal high-speed internet, we’re talking about luxuries. And let's be honest—luxury comes with a price tag. But healthcare? That’s a different story entirely. Health isn't a luxury, and it never should be treated as one. Everyone deserves the basic right to be healthy. It's like expecting the fire department to show up when your house is going up in flames, or being able to actually file a lawsuit when someone swipes your bike right off your porch. Those aren't perks; they're the baseline.

If I had to choose which finger to get sewn back onto my hand, I’d go with the more expensive one. It's a simple matter of utility versus cost, really. You look at it like an investment in your own functionality. Why settle for the budget version when you can get the high-end model that actually works properly? It's just basic logic.
Anthony Kim18 Anthony Kim18 Active Member
238 messages
joined Apr 2006
#23 ·
Did you guys catch that clip of Michael Moore on CNN?
Olivia Martin6 Olivia Martin6 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Oct 2006
#24 ·
Samuel Smith5 said:Firefighters, police, and schools are free. It seems you aren't quite grasping this, so let me break it down. We all fund healthcare. Next time you hit a convenience store to grab some junk food, just remember you already handed over 22% to the government treasury 👍

Efficient Corp schooling isn't free—just look at university rankings in the USA, where tuition can exceed $30,000 a year. An efficient police force isn't free either, and cutting costs there just invites corruption. The same goes for efficient healthcare; it’s expensive because lines of retirees and people with endless pill collections create massive debt when everything is "free." Doctors end up rushing prescriptions just to clear the waiting rooms. You don't see this kind of mess when things actually cost money. Now, explain to me how buying snacks and paying a measly 22% has anything to do with debts totaling several billion dollars that keep climbing. Economic indicators clearly show this healthcare system is broken. Feral Interactive wrote about these systemic issues a few years back; go dig through their archives. It was one of the few decent takes on the subject in our media that I actually found insightful.
redowl90 redowl90 Regular
287 messages
joined Aug 2005
#25 ·
John Robinson said:The economic indicators clearly show that a healthcare system like this just isn't working.

Hold on a second... So you’re actually arguing that the system in the USA is better? You know, where you pick an insurance provider, pay whatever astronomical figures they demand year after year, and then when you actually get sick and need surgery, the company just tells you: "NOPE! NO SURGERY FOR YOU! You mentioned having a cold 12 hours ago and didn't disclose it on the form we made you sign back then!!!"
Then some "doctor" walks in and basically says: "Look, think about this logically—if I deny you this surgery, I get a bonus! I'll end up with even more money, which I have plenty of anyway... But if I reject you, I'll have EVEN MORE! Because... who needs your health when I can make a profit, right?"

One more thing: you mentioned the country is struggling because of the economy... Well, we can agree on that. But would you honestly rather the government be broke due to debt, or would you rather *you* be broke for the exact same reason, especially if it means paying hundreds of dollars for Aspirin or a basic throat exam?
Don't get me wrong—neither option is good. But if you're choosing the lesser of two evils for an individual, you're always going to go with the first one. It’s like watching trashy daytime TV: every show is terrible, but something like *Thugs and Princesses* is still slightly less painful than the rest, so it ends up being the "best" choice... Even though it’s still bad. You see what I mean? 🙂
Olivia Martin6 Olivia Martin6 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Oct 2006
#26 ·
redowl90 said:Hold on a second... So you're actually claiming the system in the USA is better? You pick an insurance provider, pay whatever insane amounts they demand for years, then you get sick and need surgery, only for the company to tell you: "NO! YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT SURGERY! YOU HAD A COLD TWELVE HOURS AGO AND YOU DIDN'T MENTION IT ON THE FORM WE MADE YOU FILL OUT!!!"
And then some "doctor" shows up and goes: "Look, look, think about this more carefully—because by denying you this surgery right now, I GET A BONUS! I'll have even more money, which I have plenty of anyway... But I'm going to reject you so I can have EVEN MORE! Because... who cares about your health when I can make a profit, right?!"

Get it? 🙂

Moore probably interviewed fifty people, and the fifty-first one just happened to have some issue he could exploit to start ranting. Moore is the star of all his documentaries, not the actual topics he presents. Moore is a massive, hypocritical pig, and if you think this reflects the whole USA, then go jump into a three-foot puddle and stay there. This documentary is likely just some conspiracy theory cooked up in some small town, but this time it’s playing on big screens.
Get it? 🙂

No. Moore isn't my only source of information regarding a country this time, especially not regarding the USA.
redowl90 redowl90 Regular
287 messages
joined Aug 2005
#27 ·
John Robinson said:Moore probably interviewed fifty people, and the fifty-first one just happened to have some issue he could exploit to start ranting. Moore is the star of all his documentaries, not the actual subjects. He’s a massive, hypocritical jerk, and if you think this represents the entire USA, you should probably go jump into a pool deeper than three feet and stay there. This documentary is likely just some conspiracy theory born in a small town somewhere, only now it's being shown on big screens.

No. Moore isn't my only source of information regarding the state of things in the USA this time around.

OK. It’s pretty obvious you have a bone to pick with Moore and his films, but the things he portrays definitely aren't made up. Maybe they're propaganda (just like all of Fahrenheit 9/11, which was pretty obvious from the plane footage), but the fact remains that it's a truthful depiction—meaning these things actually happen. Unfortunately. And if that's the case, I'll just say to the USA: "Thanks... but no thanks."
Olivia Martin6 Olivia Martin6 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Oct 2006
#28 ·
What exactly is he showing? Give me some expert analysis to back him up, and then I’ll happily admit I was wrong. I'll concede that Moore is basically a 21st-century prophet spreading nothing but joy and goodness wherever he goes, and his aura is so powerful it'll make me want to celebrate every single time he pops up on my screen. Until then......
redowl90 redowl90 Regular
287 messages
joined Aug 2005
#29 ·
John Robinson said:Give me specific examples of what he’s showing, and back them up with actual expert opinions. If you can do that, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong and concede that Michael Moore is some kind of 21st-century prophet bringing nothing but joy and prosperity to the world—so much so that I'll happily celebrate every single one of his appearances on screen. Until then......

Look, I also think Michael Moore's films are pure propaganda (especially Fahrenheit 9/11), and I really dislike how desperately he tries to rub our noses in how flawed the American system is and how bad things are here...

...but the undeniable truth remains: he’s actually portraying things exactly as they are.
Linda Gonzalez16 Linda Gonzalez16 Member
38 messages
joined Dec 2003
#30 ·
redowl90 said:Look, I also think Michael Moore's movies are straight-up propaganda (especially Fahrenheit 9/11) and I hate how he desperately rubs it in our faces just how bad Americans are and how much of a wreck their system is...

...but the undeniable fact remains that it’s exactly how he portrays it!

It’s never quite that black and white. You can make a biased documentary anywhere in the world; it all comes down to what your intentions are. I work in healthcare, so I've got "inside" experience from both the US and other places. Sure, crazy stuff happens, but trust me, the screen often pushes generalizations, while the reality sits somewhere in the middle.
The truth is, tons of people in the US lack health insurance. But it's also true that, take UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles for example, lives are frequently saved through heart and lung transplants even for people without coverage or with plans that don't cover such procedures. When you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's pretty easy to see whether economics is winning out over humanity or not.
Obviously, you need to point out the flaws and make people aware of things that need fixing, but you shouldn't ignore or downplay the good stuff in that process. From my perspective, "Sicko" is pure propaganda loaded with bias (you show what you want to show and hide the rest—I mean, leaving parts out isn't technically a lie, it's just not the whole truth), but if that's what it takes to get a result, I'm not against it.

On the flip side, the healthcare system here is built on a solid idea—collecting funds and providing access based on "social" principles—but when it comes to organization and how the money actually gets distributed, there's still a lot of mess (like the role of primary care doctors, secondary care being overwhelmed by issues that arguably don't belong there, staffing shortages, and so on).
Maria Fox4 Maria Fox4 Member
10 messages
joined Sep 2012
#31 ·
I just finished watching it, and even though we’ve heard this all before, he really hit the nail on the head regarding the issues. I’m with the previous poster on this—he definitely glossed over what actually works. But man, when it comes to healthcare in the USA, the whole system is basically a massive disgrace. They aren't doing much better with Social Security either, but that’s a whole other headache. At least we’re ahead of them when it comes to medical care. His movie also serves as a brutal reminder of how cutthroat capitalism can get and highlights the actual benefits of a social safety net. It shows that people should come before profits, which clearly isn't how things work in America.
Maria Fox4 Maria Fox4 Member
10 messages
joined Sep 2012
#32 ·
And let me tell you, there’s no way this movie qualifies as a comedy, no matter how much people try to claim it is. I don't care how sarcastic Moore's little trip to Guantanamo was or those ridiculous shouts from the boat demanding they provide insurance.😁
David Price5 David Price5 Regular
435 messages
joined Jul 2012
#33 ·
Try searching online for the documentary Sicko. It really highlights the systemic issues within our healthcare system...
Jack Campbell59 Jack Campbell59 Member
25 messages
joined Jan 2008
#34 ·
rapidbear20 said:—well, Michael Moore, the guy with the hat... I haven't actually watched
but after reading through your posts, I can't help but wonder how doctors in America can have the heart to screw people over like that... what happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

that’s exactly what’s been rattling around in my head this whole time—it feels like nobody actually understands the Hippocratic Oath or the true purpose of medicine anymore. These doctors go through these noble programs—learning how to heal people, how to actually help the sick—and yet they end up acting like nothing more than cold bureaucrats or Wall Street speculators. 🙄
In those messy ER dramas, like Chicago Hope or ER, they never show the dark side of it all... instead, it's always just a parade of merciful, saintly American doctors and Nightingale-style nurses... 🤷 yeah, right... ☕ it really feels like the US is losing its way.🤷

because it seems like the rest of the world has set up their healthcare systems with the exact same "less is more" mentality... 🙏

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