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Cognitive Biases

Started by Jerry Martin19 · · 👁 8 views · 73 replies

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Participants Jerry Martin19Eric Jackson43electriccyclist15rowdybadger41Raymond Palmer8nimblemarlin6mellowtrucker44northernangler17wiredranger30Thomas Davis13feralorca82Henry Campbell5Charles EvansChloe Patel36Richard Wilson4irongardener12Emily Johnson27lonelynx16Jamie Ruiz5David Price5Jose Chase2crimsonmoose3Jason Chavez32slywolf45
Henry Campbell5 Henry Campbell5 Active Member
77 messages
joined Jun 2008
#61 ·
Jerry Martin19 said:@Henry Campbell5/">@@Henry Campbell5, if you listen to you, you'd think filmmakers only make movies just to please the critics... 🙂

I have to say, I don't see the connection between what I said and your conclusion. Who makes movies and why they make them... that's a whole different conversation...

I try to watch movies without letting outside noise get in my head. But if a film actually grabs me, I end up falling down a rabbit hole reading everything I can find... including those genius forum reviews like, "You're an idiot if you think this movie sucks, because I say it's a masterpiece," because at the end of the day, it all just comes down to who's talking... 😉
Jerry Martin19 Jerry Martin19 RegularOP
367 messages
joined Nov 2006
#62 ·
Henry Campbell5 said:I’ve gotta say, I don’t see how my point leads to your conclusion. Who movies are actually made for is a whole different conversation...

Movies are made for the people they want to reach and the people who actually want to watch them, not for the folks sitting around judging everything based on their own little checklists. Pretty sure you're thinking the same thing.

Sure, if a movie catches my eye, I’ll look it up, but I don't need some critic to "explain" things to me. Most of the time, reviews just serve to kill the hype and make everything feel tedious. I'd much rather just browse a forum thread, read what I need, and ask a question if something’s unclear. If I wasn't hanging out here, I've got friends I can talk shop with. Critics just drop their opinions and walk away—there's no back-and-forth, so there's nothing to gain from it. It doesn't feel helpful or insightful...

P. S. The very concept of "criticism" implies finding flaws. Every single movie gets picked apart, and if we went by a critic's logic, we'd have to assume no movie is actually good. That's just nonsense... 🙂
Jason Chavez32 Jason Chavez32 Active Member
56 messages
joined Dec 2007
#63 ·
"Criterion bias" is hands down the best thread title ever! 🙏
Chloe Patel36 Chloe Patel36 Member
12 messages
joined Apr 2007
#64 ·
Jerry Martin19 said:I mean, movies are made, I guess, by people who want to make them for the audience they want to reach, not for a bunch of folks looking to tear them apart based on their own little checklists, and you probably feel the same way about it.

I think you might be getting a bit tangled up in that whole RADI-concept thing. To be honest, I’m kind of losing the thread because there are just so many RADI-concepts floating around. (And there’s definitely too many of them, 😁 )

Anyway, moving on to what I actually think... and hey, no offense intended here...

...critics just put their words out there and you can't really push back, so it feels like there's nothing to gain from it. I don't see much value or any real insight in that.

In my mind, whenever you criticize or praise a movie, you're basically joining the ranks of the critics, and in a way, you're giving them a response right back.

EDIT: I guess I was thinking of criticizing as being "worse" than praising, even though those two things aren't necessarily the same thing, but I think you get where I'm coming from...
Jerry Martin19 Jerry Martin19 RegularOP
367 messages
joined Nov 2006
#65 ·
Tyler Hall83 said:You went a bit overboard with that RADI-concept. Honestly, I’m lost in all the jargon... there's definitely too much of it. 😁 )

Moving on to my take... no offense intended...

Wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders when I stumbled through the door last night... 😁

I feel like every time you tear a movie apart or sing its praises, you're basically joining the ranks of the critics... and in doing so, you're giving them a taste of their own medicine.

Look, I thought being critical was worse than giving props, even if they aren't exactly the same thing, but I think you get what I mean...

I critique movies for myself. I don't force my standards on anyone else, even when they try to do it to me. My takes aren't being put on a pedestal like those "professional" critics act like they are. You can take my opinion, think about it, or just ignore it... but when critics speak, most people just nod along. Not me...

P. S. Most of the criteria I laid out here are just personal preferences—unless someone decides to jump in and turn this into a debate—mostly just to make things a little easier on you. Critics tend to weaponize their standards for different reasons. That’s where the real problem lies...

offtopic:

Jason Chavez32 said:"Criterion bias" is hands down the best thread title ever... 🙏

Give me a break... 🙂
Chloe Patel36 Chloe Patel36 Member
12 messages
joined Apr 2007
#66 ·
Jerry Martin19 said:Look, I’m just out here critiquing movies for myself, you know? I don't go around forcing my own standards on everyone else, even when I see other people doing exactly that. My takes aren't being pushed or spotlighted the way those "professional" critics do it, where they act like their word is law. You can take what I say, think about it, or just totally ignore it—it doesn't really matter to me. But when those big-time critics speak, most people just nod along and assume they're right, though personally, I don't see it that way at all.

P. S. I guess those criteria you just read through are mostly just my own personal thing—I mean, unless someone decides to jump in and steer the conversation somewhere else entirely—but they're really just there to make things a little easier on you every now and then. It's just that critics tend to use them for all sorts of other motives, and I think that's where the real difference lies, which is also kind of the problem, I suppose.

I mean, I mostly agree with you, though I’m not so sure about the whole idea that critics get to dictate how we feel—it kind of feels like they have to talk that way, I guess. Personally, I don't think most people are actually swayed by what some reviewer says, even if, maybe, a tiny piece of that criticism sticks in the back of our minds whether we want it to or not. They can sit there and give their ratings, praise it, hate on it, or just totally trash a movie (which, honestly, I think they do every single time without fail), but at the end of the day, they aren't ever going to ruin the experience for the actual people sitting in the theater watching the film.
I mean, look, it isn't exactly totalitarianism just because one person's opinion gets treated like it's the consensus for everyone, I guess. It’s not like one individual's take automatically defines the whole group, you know?
Man, I think I've really gotten myself stuck now... 🙂
Jerry Martin19 Jerry Martin19 RegularOP
367 messages
joined Nov 2006
#67 ·
Tyler Hall83 said:I’m mostly with you, except for the idea that critics' takes have to be right. Most people aren't easily swayed by what others think, even if some of that criticism sticks in the back of our minds whether we like it or not. They can rate it, praise it, hate it, or trash it (and honestly, they usually just trash it), but they aren't going to ruin the experience for the actual audience.
It's not like individual opinions represent the whole damn world.
now I'm getting deep... 🙂

Look, I'm not saying their word is gospel, but in the eyes of most viewers, big studios, and the entire Hollywood industry, those reviews basically dictate everything. Why do critics even exist if nobody cares? Because someone needs them. They're the ones cranking out all those "top ten" lists and those "deep" (🙄) essays on specific titles. Do you actually need someone else's take to help you form your own? Not me. If I already have an opinion on a movie, why the hell would I care about someone else's? Who am I watching movies for, anyway? That's the point I'm making. 🙂
Chloe Patel36 Chloe Patel36 Member
12 messages
joined Apr 2007
#68 ·
Jerry Martin19 said:I’m not saying everything they say is gospel or anything, but in the eyes of a huge chunk of people—and even within the big Hollywood studios and the entire film industry—it basically carries a ton of weight. I mean, why would critics even exist if nobody actually cared about them? They exist because there’s a demand. It’s the critics who put together all those top-tier rankings and write those deep dives (🙄) into specific movies. Do you honestly feel like you need someone else's take just to figure out what you think? Personally, I don't. If I already have my own sense of what makes a movie good, why on earth would I care about some stranger's opinion? At the end of the day, who am I watching the movie for? That’s really the point I’m trying to make here. 🙂

First off, regarding whether I need a critic's input, I think I've made my position pretty clear.
What we're really getting at here is that we're all just defending our own perspectives, so I guess there isn't much point in us just shouting the same things back and forth indefinitely.
As for those rating lists... I was actually thinking about this earlier, and it made me wonder what those rankings will even look like fifty years from now. 😕 I honestly think that once a "new generation" of critics takes over, we're going to see some massive shifts in how those lists are put together.
Jerry Martin19 Jerry Martin19 RegularOP
367 messages
joined Nov 2006
#69 ·
man, these rankings 😱

they need to go too. right now... ☕

P. S. for those obsessed with the top rankings, tell me... what's even the point? how are they actually useful? 🙂
Jose Chase2 Jose Chase2 Active Member
196 messages
joined Sep 2008
#70 ·
Well, let's see which movie is actually the most requested at our local video rental shops :Olić: 😬
slywolf45 slywolf45 Regular
299 messages
joined Apr 2016
#71 ·
Ah, the critics... people who desperately need something to do. Once they finish their little "criticism school" 😕 it becomes their entire identity. We usually find ourselves nodding along with anyone who praises the movies we love or drags the ones we actually enjoy.
But at the end of the day, they’re just humans—not some programmed robots that you only switch on when it's time to assign a rating—so while they're tearing a film apart, they're really just projecting their own personal tastes.
That’s why you shouldn't take their reviews as gospel or let them dictate whether a movie is worth your time or not.
Because, as some wise soul once said (I can't recall who, and no, I don't think it was Brian Molko)... everyone has an asshole. 🤣 🤣
Jerry Martin19 Jerry Martin19 RegularOP
367 messages
joined Nov 2006
#72 ·
Jose Chase2 said:Let's see which movies are actually killing it at our local video stores... :Olić: 😬

🤣

And how much they pulled in, like Shrek, Pirates of the Caribbean, and stuff like that... 🙂
Jerry Martin19 Jerry Martin19 RegularOP
367 messages
joined Nov 2006
#73 ·
slywolf45 said:Like some smart guy once said (not sure if it was Brian Molko though)... everyone's got one 🤣 🤣

🙏 🤣

Who says Brian Molko isn't smart? 😕

P. S. He definitely said it, whether he was quoting someone else or just being himself is another story. I thought it was his own line originally, but now I'm pretty sure he was just quoting Woody Harrelson. David Price5 dropped the link 🙂
slywolf45 slywolf45 Regular
299 messages
joined Apr 2016
#74 ·
Jerry Martin19 said:🙏 🤣

Who says Brian Molko isn't brilliant? 😕

P.S. He said it 100%, but whether he was actually quoting someone else or just repeating a sentiment is a different story altogether. I initially thought the line was his own, but now I’m starting to suspect he was just channeling Woody Harrelson. Mladja provided the link 🙂

Look, I'm not suggesting Brian lacks intellect—if he didn't have it, I wouldn't be hanging out with him in the first place. 😉 I just wanted to point out that I don't think those were his original words.

Anyway, what would we ever do without Mladja? 😁 🙏

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