Great casting, terrible movie

Hey Xavi! 😘
Look, I know I’m a total old-school relic clinging to the past. There was just something about that cinematic era right after the old studio systems crumbled, before everything turned into this modern blockbuster madness.

Sure, you’ve got Dustin Hoffman, Johnny Depp, even Leonardo DiCaprio when he actually tries (take a look at Gilbert Grape), but honestly? To me, they aren't quite part of some untouchable pantheon. They’re incredibly talented—top-tier actors, really—but I see them more as masters of their specific psychological profiles who can stretch their range just far enough before hitting a limit. The only exception might be Steve Buscemi (since someone brought him up earlier); he’s basically my American Jim Broadbent. 🙂

In truth, I tend to appreciate individual performances rather than those rare instances where acting feels like a pure, disciplined craft. And if I'm being honest, there weren't any more of those back then than there are now. I suppose every era produces maybe two or three true masters, at least in my book... it all comes down to personal taste, after all... and honestly, who could resist Jason Spall in "All or Nothing"?! 😍 But then again, I can't exactly slot him into the same roles as someone like Rhys Ifans. 😍 That’s just my twisted way of looking at things...

northerncrane4 said:There's another one that serves as a perfect catalog of stellar male acting—"Glengary Glen Ross".

Spot on, my friend! This one is an absolute gem, and I actually just picked up a copy on DVD recently. Bravo! 👋 When Lemmona really finds his groove, the man is practically a magician. Plus, having Jonathan Pryce in there is just priceless... mmm... and there's plenty to satisfy fans of Pacina, Kevin Spacey, or Ed Harris... are you guys seriously not interested yet? Huh? 🙏

I was just thinking about The Man in the Iron Mask from 1998. It’s got a great cast, but honestly, the movie kind of sucks.

Actually, any bad British film is probably a perfect example for this topic. Since the Brits seem to have this weird, invisible connection to acting—I don't know why, maybe getting whipped by William Shakespeare somehow boosts the quality—they just seem to have the best actors in the world. Because of that, even their absolute worst movies usually end up being above average when it comes to casting. 😁

...you both are sweet with your enthusiasm and nostalgia, but I can't help feeling that even today—just like always—there are a few truly exceptional actors out there; it’s just that it’s in our nature to be a bit overly nostalgic 🙂 Joseph Lee3, you mentioned Spall, Hoffman, Depp... who all seem, at least to me, capable of playing the widest spectrum of roles. Well, at least two of them have proven it—primarily Hoffman (my personal favorite, so maybe I'm being a bit subjective 😳), who did—and did brilliantly—absolutely everything: from comedy (Punch-Drunk Love) to drama (Magnolia, Love Lisa—which is actually more of a Hoffman film since the script is sparse and relies much more on what we infer from the imagery than what is said), to action (the man even played a villain in Mission: Impossible III with a certain "otherworldly" dimension—though I have a feeling northerncrane4 might not agree with me on that one 🙂), and I could go on... Then there's someone like Edward Norton—in my eyes, one of the best American actors working today (and he had the luck of having the kind of look that fits a Hollywood "leading man" perfectly), who, if he starts picking smarter roles, will almost certainly join the "greats" in twenty years. Of course, to get there, you have to age, no matter how much we try to ignore it 😉, but I’d happily bet money on him...
...what saddens me is the fact that here, as elsewhere, great acting is automatically identified with acting exclusively in English-language films. Our first associations are always Hollywood blockbusters, while British cinema follows, and the rest of the world passes by relatively unnoticed, which feels like an injustice... if you look at the acting of someone like Olivier Gourmet, especially what he did with his brother Dardenn, I don't think you could remain indifferent. The guy might be hyper-productive—less lead roles, less fanfare, more small parts, somewhat similar to Buscemi's excellent "cameo" style mentioned above 🙂—but the way he uses not just his voice and face, but his entire body, is fantastic... then there's the mini-generation of brilliant Danish actors (unfortunately, fewer actresses) led by Mads Mikkelsen (I've been diving deep into his filmography lately, and he really is a man who can pull off any role—he's played everything from dealers to nerds; his only real disappointment was the villain in the new Bond, but I can overlook that because I think the issue is primarily "linguistic": his English sounds a bit clunky in all his films, making the whole thing feel a bit like a recitation... but for "Danish" roles, he deserves nothing but applause, even if it isn't widely recognized...) and Thomsen (also very good, though perhaps a bit more static, less expressive... everyone else—Lia Kaas, Pilmark...—is good, often exceeding the Hollywood standard, but not quite top-tier), Ulrich Mühe (brilliant 👍, and honestly, my surprise at his excellent performance in the recent The Lives of Others seems totally misplaced, given it's just one of many great roles he's had)... there truly are incredible non-English speaking actors that deserve our attention, yet it's rarely done... 🙂

...and please don't take me the wrong way; I'm not saying there are a *ton* of great actors out there—but they exist, in every era, and I genuinely love the belief that they still exist today 🙂There are plenty of actors I enjoy—like Robert Carlyle 😍, who I genuinely adore and has such a solid run of great roles—but honestly, I don't think he can hold a candle to someone like Pacina 😍. That said, there’s definitely a handful of performers who go way beyond just being "personal favorites"...

Joseph Lee3 said:then Jim Broadbent was right there next to her—and honestly, he's probably the finest actor working today, if you ask me—because his technique is just... invisible. It’s this flawless underplaying and perfect character building, no matter what kind of script they throw at him.

👍 👍 👍 👍

Joseph Lee3 🙏 🙏 🙏

quietdriver3 said:Honestly, any bad British film serves as a perfect example for this topic—since Americans have that strange, invisible connection to acting (not sure why, maybe being whipped by William Shakespeare somehow boosts quality?) they just seem to have the best actors in the world, so even their worst movies are above average when it comes to casting. 😁

ae🙏

Man, just look at their kids in movies—even from such a young age, they can already play those cold-blooded killers with that chilling stare🙏

wearygardener13 said:man🙏

seriously, just look at their kids in movies... they can play those cold-blooded killers with that icy stare from such a young age. It's wild.🙏

I guess the Pythons are a perfect example of that for me. I mean, if I recall correctly, none of them actually had formal acting training, yet look at them—they absolutely kill it. They have such an incredible range when it comes to how they play their characters.

Robert Carlyle rules. EOD 🙏 🙏

I suppose I should also mention Grega Kinnear—in my opinion, he’s probably the most underrated actor working today. He completely steals every scene he's in—though, personally, I can't seem to catch him in more than two good films in a row. It makes me think of Mystery Men, which had such an incredible cast, yet ended up being total garbage.

...EOD? 🙂
...Yeah, look, Robert Carlyle is wonderful 😍, but he’s got this one little issue—he’s too low-key, too subtle, which means he rarely gets tapped for the big leading roles. It’s more like a flicker than an explosion... kind of a shame, really, because the guy can pivot between such wildly different archetypes (think Daffy, Begbie, or Gaz 🙂)...
...Grega Kinnear was absolutely stellar in Little Miss Sunshine—for me, he was the absolute highlight of that film—but it feels like people don't quite give him enough credit for it...

@quietdriver3/">@@quietdriver3
...Solid point there—the Americans definitely have their share of consistently brilliant, fascinating actors 👍, especially when I think back to someone like Robert Thewlis 😵...

quietdriver3 is onto something here. There’s a certain legacy to the British scene—it’s built on deep traditions, heavy drama, and a massive theatrical footprint. These days, the worlds seem somewhat disconnected, though you still see young talents like Finnes and Bernal making their way onto the stage. It’s rarely the other way around, though; decades ago, it was perfectly standard for cinema to be dominated by stage veterans who honed their craft in the academy or at the Old Vic, much like how big studios like Olivier & Co. or Guinness used to operate.

As for the Pythons, I suspect their DNA was primarily shaped by The Goon Show, which is something the guys have admitted themselves. Using eggshells to represent horse hooves? Anyone who caught the Goons back in the fifties during those chaotic episodes of "a show called Fred" knows they were the ones pioneering that kind of absurdity. Honestly, after revisiting the Goon archives, there isn't actually much that feels uniquely "Python" in their early stages, aside from Gilliam's animations and a fresh batch of sketches tailored to changing social landscapes. Of course, you also have to account for the shift from the radio era, where the Goons reigned supreme, to the nuances of television. But hey, that’s a conversation for another day. The bottom line is they’re brilliant comedians, but everyone draws their inspiration from somewhere.

wearygardener13 said:But I’d also have to bring up Grega Kinnear; in my eyes, he’s easily the most underrated actor working today. He completely steals every scene he's in, yet somehow, he can't seem to string together even two or three great performances in a row.

I find myself agreeing with this sentiment. Grega 😍

Mrtva mrkva said:Is he? By then he already had dead, Gilbert Grape and Ed Wood under his belt. In the meantime, he knocked out Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Donnie Brasco, then moved on to the Astronaut's wife.

maybe being too good and precool just got boring🙂

Species (1995)—Ben Kingsley, Michael Madsen, Alfred Molina, Forest Whitaker, Marg Helgenberger... honestly, it feels like trash all over again. The only decent reason to sit through this one is, of course, Natasha Henstridge.

...Man, what a total disaster of a movie 😵—I actually stumbled into the theater by mistake, thinking I’d grabbed tickets for Pocahontas 😬—and honestly, it sticks in my mind as one of the absolute worst things I've ever seen... 🙂 Unfortunately, this was the exact film that made me lose all respect for—now an Oscar winner, no less—Forest Whitaker, and nothing has been able to win me back since (mind you, I haven't seen The Last King of Scotland yet)...

Amanda Lopez50 said:Unfortunately, that was the exact movie that made me lose all respect for—the recent Oscar winner—Forest Whitaker, and nothing has been able to win me back (mind you, I haven't seen The Last King of Scotland yet)...

In that case, you absolutely have to watch Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai (1999)
. It’ll restore your faith in him..

...so I watched it... and honestly, Forest is great, but Jim Jarmusch—unfortunately (since I listen to way too much stuff about him, and I really do respect his specific directorial style)—just doesn't quite click for me as a director 🙂 now, don't get me wrong (unlike the guy above who just rolls his eyes immediately 😉), Whitaker is a solid actor, but I can't help feeling that the movies he works on just don't match his actual caliber...
...but anyway, that's getting pretty off-topic 🙂

Amanda Lopez50 said:...man, what a terrible movie 😵 I accidentally saw it in theaters—thinking I'd bought tickets for Pocahontas 😬—and it sticks in my mind as one of the absolute worst ever... 🙂 unfortunately, it was the film that cost me all respect for—the recent Oscar winner—Forest Whitaker, and nothing has helped win it back (noting that I haven't seen The Last King of Scotland either)...

He's good in Panic Room. But that Jarmusch's samurai flick is a total disaster.

Let's just hope—and I really mean this—that Forest Whitaker doesn't try his hand at the director's chair again anytime soon 😬

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