Rules on deleting and moderating posts

Ladies, you really think you can prove how easily a thread falls apart? Or how much a moderator has to step in to save it? You're wasting your breath. It all gets deleted anyway.
By the way, Sila, take a look at how the mod split these threads. Don't blame me.

If anyone actually cared about improving the quality and flow of discussion here, they’d hire moderators who actually know how to moderate: basically, people capable of keeping posts on topic, moving things around, and deleting off-topic garbage.

Maria Barnes said:You probably realize that once you start posting seriously, both the tone and the direction of the debate shift. Even those typical Forum idiots can change their tone if they want to. So, really, it’s the people writing the posts who set the mood, not the moderators. Moderators can only step in to save things if there's actually something left worth saving. We could probably keep this thread going in a coherent—or totally trivial—tone if we wanted to.

I almost missed this, but it pretty much gets to the heart of the issue. 😳

A moderator is supposed to moderate. Their main job isn't just deleting stuff or handing out bans; it's to moderate. To guide things. To respond in a way that keeps the discussion on topic and moving in a sensible direction. Right?
It's rare to find a moderator here who actually does that kind of moderating.

d@d@ said:If he was actually doing that in the politics subforum, the admins wouldn't be protecting him—meaning people would be talking about it, but they aren't.

Maria Barnes?

By the way, I’ve even got screenshots showing him doing it. You want me to email you, Maria Barnes? Just so I don't look like I'm just talking nonsense, and so I don't end up spamming this place.

Tyler Grant76 said:The moderator is moderating. Their primary job isn't just deleting posts and handing out bans—it's moderation. Guiding the flow. Responding in a way that keeps the discussion on track and moving toward something meaningful. Right?
There are very few moderators on this Forum who actually moderate in that sense.

So tell me, what's stopping you from being one?

Maria Barnes said:So, tell me... what's actually stopping you from being a moderator like that?

I just don't have any desire to be a moderator on this Forum.

Tyler Grant76 said:I have zero interest in being a moderator on this Forum.

Honestly, who is actually being subpar here? You don't need an official title to do everything you just listed as essential moderator duties:

A moderator moderates. Their primary job isn't just deleting posts or handing out bans—it's moderating. Guiding the conversation. Replying in a way that keeps the discussion on topic and moving in a productive direction.

None of that requires actual moderator authority. You or any other regular user can do all of it. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to complain that a moderator isn't doing what you think they should be doing (guiding, replying) when you could just do it yourself?

Maria Barnes said:Honestly, anyone can act smart. You don't need an official title to do all those things you just listed that make a good moderator.

Even though we're talking about being an official moderator on an American Forum 😁, I’d argue that I was repeatedly blocked from restoring topics by a formal moderator here (Michael Adams2). It was constant trolling—refusing to split threads, refusing to stop insults, and so on. I reported posts. I filed complaints. Nothing happened. So, I just left.

None of that actually requires moderator privileges. You, or any other user on this Forum, could do all of it. It seems a bit silly to complain that a moderator isn't doing what you think they should be doing—like guiding the talk or replying—when you could just do it yourself.

Well, I can't do anything when my posts get deleted, or when the whole flow of a conversation is manipulated through selective deleting. I just don't have the energy or the time to deal with someone shouting "you said black!" after I clearly said "white," and then while I'm confusedly scrolling back up to find my "white" post... it's gone. 😁 So then I'll just repost. Or maybe I'll just spam. 😁 😁

By the way, since it’s such a rare chance to be talking to you while you're actually running this whole service, I was wondering... do you feel like you have any editorial responsibility?

It’s ridiculous that he deletes every single post where you actually try to contribute something constructive or help steer the discussion like a proper Forum moderator.

Just an FYI: posts aren't actually deleted. They just get hidden, and everything can be reviewed or restored if necessary. So, if you have a grievance, there's a place for it. Post the links to what was supposedly removed, explain the issue, and it'll be looked into.

Tyler Grant76 said:Since you're actually here—and since you own this service, no less—I have to ask: do you take any editorial responsibility for what happens on this site?

No. I don't answer for anything you write. Those are your personal opinions, not the views of the Forum. We (the moderators and admins) are just the janitors and the makeup artists. We step in to make minor adjustments to ensure threads and posts stay within basic civilized norms, blah blah blah... and follow the rules of this Forum.

Maria Barnes said:Look, I’m not responsible for what you guys say here. Those are just your own personal opinions, not the official stance of the Forum.

That's clear enough.

We (the moderators and admins) are really just here to handle the light cleaning and touch-ups. We perform minor interventions to ensure all topics and posts stay within generally accepted civilized norms, blah, blah... and follow the rules of this Forum.

There are two other types of responsibility here. First off, if a moderator on your Forum breaks their own rules... well, are they actually accountable to you? I mean, if you don't say anything, does that basically mean you're okay with that kind of moderating? Maybe. I guess it’s worth considering.
And another thing... if posts on this Forum start veering way outside basic civilized norms—you know, stuff involving race, gender, nationality, or just general intolerance—and then a user actually gets "rewarded" with moderation for it, doesn't that basically mean the Forum is endorsing that kind of behavior? I guess it suggests the platform is okay with people stepping outside those social boundaries. Maybe.
Look, at the end of the day, this is a public online space. There are certain ground rules we all have to follow, if that's how you want to put it. 🥳

Maria Barnes said:Just so you know, posts aren't actually deleted. They just get hidden from view, so everything can be audited or restored if necessary. So, if anyone feels they have a legitimate grievance, there’s a place for it—just provide the links to where the content should be, explain what happened, and we'll look into it.

That's great. Read up. 👍

So, I was just wondering... is there any way I can get those unattached posts to actually show up for me? 🙂

Tyler Grant76 said:But there are two other types of responsibility here. First, if your Forum moderator breaks their own rules, are they accountable to you? If you don't react, does that mean you're consenting to that kind of moderating?
Second, if posts on the Forum cross the line of basic civilized norms—racism, sexism, nationalism, or general intolerance—and a user is "rewarded" with moderation instead of being penalized, doesn't that mean this Forum supports behavior that falls outside those norms?
At the end of the day, this is a public electronic medium. There are rules to the game, if you want to call it that. 🥳

You keep bringing up Michael Adams2, don't you? Honestly, that topic is ancient news, but fine—if you’re going to insist, I’ll address it. Michael Adams2 was nominated by three moderators on the Politics subforum who were considered decent mods, as much as anyone can be on Politics. I personally vet every moderator. I actually asked them about his old posts that weren't fit for a moderator—exactly what you're asking—the ones that got him banned originally. They told me those posts were from a lifetime ago. He hasn't done anything like that in over a year, and during that time, he's stayed within the Forum rules. By all other measures, he could be an excellent moderator. We've had plenty of decent moderators.

Since any moderator can be stripped of their title at any moment if they violate moderation policy—which was emphasized right when Michael Adams2 was stepping up—there isn't really any risk, even if we make a mistake in our assessment.

A moderator's personal views aren't my views, nor are they the Forum's. The bottom line is that personal opinions shouldn't influence moderation. If someone has specific complaints about how things are being handled... I've already said what needs to be done. I won't accept vague arguments like "they're breaking the rules" as valid points. Believe me, we discuss every single one of those complaints seriously and extensively in the Moderators section. That subforum is one of our biggest based on thread and post count alone.

And to answer your question: if a moderator breaks the rules, does that mean I implicitly agree? Of course not. If I know someone is violating the rules, I will definitely react. Just keep in mind that it's possible—and likely—that I don't know about every single violation. But that's why there are other admins and super-moderators who can and must step in. You have to speak up.

Maria Barnes said:.. Seriously though, we’re taking all these complaints super seriously and going into massive, deep-dive discussions with the moderators, which is why that politics subforum is actually one of our biggest hubs when you count up all the threads and posts.
..

..Sorry to just jump in like this, but I’ve got one question—okay, make that two, actually let's go with three, please! 🙂

..Why isn't the politics subforum open up for everyone else on the Forum to see as a read-only section?

..Is that just your personal call, or is that what most of the moderators want?

..I mean, what exactly are we trying to hide here?

And look, I’m apologizing to the rest of the community right now because I really don't want to get sucked into a huge debate or keep piling on more questions. 🙂

Hey, Maria Barnes, can you please just put back everything I deleted, Tyler Grant76? Just lay it all out there for everyone to see so people know I wasn't trying to silence her debate or anything—it was just straight-up spam. Honestly, trolling and stirring the pot... that’s basically the only reason she even showed up to the politics subforum. Please, just bring it all back! Let everyone see why she actually got banned, how many of her spammy posts were wiped, and how many other junk posts had to go. She was constantly being difficult in threads and totally wrecking them with those silly little jabs of hers. I mean, she really should have been banned like, ten times over because she’s just so destructive, but she only got hit once because she wouldn't stop being such a nuisance and kept reposting stuff that had already been scrubbed. Just pure provocation, nonsense, and total stupidity... that’s all she ever brought to Politics. If you could, maybe present the whole thread where she got banned? Like, show the reasoning, show the spam levels, and if possible, just restore all those deleted posts right here so we can all see what we're dealing with. Just a plain old liar, I guess.

..hey Maria Barnes, check out this moderator.

..I mean, what can I even say besides that this Forum actually provides some serious life lessons on how you take someone who used to be a total troll or a flamewar addict and mold them into a top-tier, loyal moderator—someone who’s a ruthless truth-seeker with a super subtle knack for sniffing out hidden aggression. Especially when they finally get their hands on all those technical tools!

..So, how could you not think back and compare our Forum to places where people like Vienna, Pollux, or even Maria Barnes and a bunch of others I can't even remember right now used to moderate? It’s honestly so fascinating to watch how this whole place evolves, truly. And man, comparing how things used to be versus how they are now in terms of quality, wit, coherence (which is basically the go-to word here whenever someone's ripping a post apart), and just how clearly people express themselves... it's wild.

But hey, whatever. Whether anyone actually stops to think about what they want from this Forum—be it just some commercialized virtual distraction or a genuine attempt at high-quality info sharing—that's totally on you.
If you guys want to keep this "debate" going in the exact tone and style the moderators clearly want for this thread, then by all means, go for it... without me. I'm officially bowing out.

Is it just me... back when you used to jump into the politics subforum with actual purpose and a clear goal... people were way more persistent... I mean, did everyone just lose their drive? What a bummer...

Maria Barnes, please, I’m asking you, just lay it all out for everyone—show us all those deleted posts from Tyler Grant76 so we can actually see what went down. We need to know why she got that one single ban... how constructive her posts really were, how she basically hijacked every single thread she touched, and honestly, how many times she brought me up in her posts... etc etc...

That's my request... and if that's not gonna happen... then, well, I'm asking you...

I already filed a report right here
The way this whole W&S section operates under Michael Adams2's protection is just ridiculous
If someone misses an insult or two, fine, whatever—but this constant nonsense is getting old. Yet, the second anyone actually tries to push back, the moderators swoop in with a ban

At this point, why don't you guys just put up a sign saying Mexicans and dogs aren't welcome?

Jacob Allen said:..I mean, how can you not look back and compare this Forum to how things used to be? Especially when you think about how people like vienna, pollux, or even Maria Barnes used to moderate things—plus a bunch of other names I can't quite pull up right now... It’s actually pretty fascinating to watch how a Forum evolves over time. There's something really interesting about comparing the old days to what we have now—especially when you look at the quality, the humor, the coherence (which, let's face it, is one of the most common things people nitpick here), and just how clearly thoughts are expressed.

Regarding the whole thing about coherence and how people express themselves... honestly, it doesn't have all that much to do with the specific moderators... see, there was a time when places like Newsy were actual hubs for high-level discussion and swapping ideas—almost like the digital successors to those old-school BBS boards—but nowadays, you mostly just run into the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel content... new era, new crowd, I guess... I'm not trying to bash anyone specifically, but just a few years ago, the internet felt like it was reserved for an "elite class"... today, everyone and their mother is online... and I don't think if 😎 and 🙂 were the mods, they could really change the fundamental DNA of the Forum...