Issues with discussions regarding cancer treatment

Two women on that thread—Yin Yang and SVJETLOST9—are out there acting like they're experts, claiming modern medicine can't do squat about cancer and that it's all just some massive conspiracy to poison people. Seriously? This kind of talk can actually trigger a nocebo effect in patients undergoing chemotherapy. And if someone actually falls for this nonsense and walks away from life-saving treatment? That’s bordering on manslaughter.
Then you've got the moderator, Ryan Gomez4, who claims she's here to "keep order," but instead, she's handing out bans to anyone brave enough to directly challenge those ridiculous claims. Meanwhile, my own posts get nuked because she can't find a single legitimate reason to penalize them.
By doing this, she’s actually fueling that "negative energy" (the nocebo) against people relying on actual medical science. It goes against everything a moderator should be—honestly, it goes against basic human decency.

hollowtrucker77 popped up in the thread earlier with some comments that should have kept the discussion on track and prevented it from devolving into a total smear campaign against doctors. But since I have no clue if the moderator actually intends to follow any rules, I figured I'd vent about it here.

Her true intentions will be crystal clear once you see my post that went up right at midnight. :

Is posting on a forum really considered manslaughter now? Are we saying someone's therapy failed just because of what was written online? Is that how things work on Alternative?

😵

Get a grip.

Jose White18 said:Is posting on a forum really considered manslaughter now? Are we saying someone's therapy failed just because of what was written online? Is that how things work on Alternative?

😵

Get a grip.

We’re talking about massive walls of text here where a woman claims modern medicine is toxic and basically tells potential patients to stay away.
Look, SVJETLOST9, if she doesn't beat her cancer, she won't be the first victim of this kind of practice—swapping a hospital for amateur guesswork. The truth is, people today are absolutely terrified the second they get diagnosed with a tumor, making them easy targets for suggestions that lead them straight to the grave.
Personally? I don't much care how someone dies, as long as it's crystal clear who sent them there.

Everyone is the architect of their own destiny, so you have every right to decide whose advice you listen to and how you choose to treat your body.
It’s the tumor that kills you, not someone else's suggestion.

steelsurfer42, we have a disclaimer where we tell people to go talk to actual medical professionals before they start drinking raccoon sweat or other nonsense. If someone can't or won't wrap their head around that, there's honestly not much we can do for them.

Jose White18 said:Everyone is the architect of their own destiny, so you have every right to decide whose advice you listen to and how you choose to treat your body.
It’s the tumor that kills you, not someone else's suggestion.

Whatever, screw all that....
Can I get advice on building a bomb here on the forum?
Or tips on how to break into a Golf GTI?
Or maybe political advice on how to kill a Mexican?
Or the best way to kill cats on KLJ?

I guess the mods just don't get the basic rules of how they should be moderating...

The topic is about alternative medicine, and frankly, I don't see the issue here at all.

However, I do agree that this kind of thing definitely doesn't belong in the Health subforum.

On a side note, I know someone who treats themselves and their child using nothing but highly alternative methods.

Do I really need to point out that they spend half their time talking to trees, hugging them, and rolling around naked in the dirt?

😳

dustypuma5 said:Whatever, screw all that....
Can I get advice on building a bomb here on the forum?
Or tips on how to break into a Golf GTI?
Or maybe political advice on how to kill a Mexican?
Or the best way to kill cats on KLJ?

I guess the mods just don't get the basic rules of how they should be moderating...

How is any of this comparable to giving someone advice on what they should or shouldn't do with their own body? ☕

I'm surprised the moderators don't grasp the basic principles they're supposed to be moderating...

The moderators get it. It's the self-righteous ones who don't.

I mean, by that logic, anyone could just post whatever advice they wanted without any issues.
I guess this site follows Rhode Island law. And since unlicensed medical practice is illegal there, encouraging that kind of stuff shouldn't even be tolerated on the forum.
If you can't give advice on making a bomb because it's illegal, then you shouldn't be allowed to tell people to skip chemo and go see Andy instead.

Oh, and honestly, I don't think you really get it.

hollowtrucker77 said:dustypuma5, calling everything from Coldrex to Ginkgo Biloba "quackery" is quite the stretch,
the only thing I’ll actually give you credit for is agreeing that telling people to ditch mainstream medicine entirely is just plain illegal advice.

That last point is exactly why I started this whole thread. 😁
Between that and the moderator who went on a tear trying to delete my posts because she couldn't just ban me outright, I've had enough.

Look, hollowtrucker77, that’s exactly my point. The alternative medicine section is crawling with losers trying to sell urine, bleach, or water diluted 237 times, plus people pushing sun-gazing nonsense or setting up shady meetings with local con artists and random hustlers...
It needs a massive cleanup, just like that one purge we had before.
On any cancer treatment thread, every single piece of advice like, "If I were you, I'd ditch chemo and go see that magical Uzguz guy who cures 47 types of cancer with dipole radiation from his big toes..." should be banned, in my opinion.

I think this forum is supposed to be a serious place, and if that's the case, you shouldn't let this slide.

That’s one issue, and honestly, I think it's an easy fix.

Then there’s the second issue: people posting in the alternative sections take every scientific fact as a personal insult. I see it all the time, but on a site like forumu.hr, which is actually meant to be legitimate, people with actual scientific backgrounds should be allowed to debunk theories posted by people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about.

It’s not even about democracy or free speech or whatever—it’s about safety. When someone gullible and easily led stumbles onto a thread, they need to be able to read something backed by science or a warning about how dangerous these methods are. That's huge. If you ban guys like steelsurfer42, Chronic Vlado, and the rest, or if you stop someone like Endimon from posting in the alternative section like they used to, then you'll need a disclaimer way bigger than the one we have now. I guess that current one was already a compromise after long negotiations and barely made it through.

Look, I don't care if someone writes about the healing properties of bleach, but I do care if someone deletes a naturalist's description of how much damage bleach does to your stomach flora...

As for insults? Ha! Where have you seen a conflict between Catholics and Muslims, believers and atheists, or vegetarians and meat-eaters... without some insults flying?
That’s already covered by the forum rules regarding conduct. 😁

Besides, saying "sun-gazing is dangerous stupidity" isn't an insult, just like saying a Mig 29 is garbage or that Button is a bad driver isn't an insult to VP.
🙂

Oh, and maybe show some thanks to the people who actually have knowledge and the guts to call stuff out over there. 😉

Look, if this is really such a headache, I suggest we just shut down the alternative medicine subforum entirely. People interested in that stuff will always find their way to niche boards dedicated specifically to those topics anyway. You can't host a space for these ideas and then complain about the content, expecting the board to turn into a testing ground where skeptics get to set all the rules to prove everything is ineffective.

It’s the same logic—you wouldn't have psychologists constantly swooping in to tear down mysticism...

If these subforums are open to people interested in those themes, they should be left alone. I'm not saying there shouldn't be skeptical debate, but you shouldn't be able to ban a specific alternative narrative just because it doesn't fit a certain mold. Either let people talk, or just scrap the subforum. I don't see any point in maintaining a section if the whole purpose ends up being policing anything that doesn't align perfectly with mainstream science or medicine. That kind of scrutiny can happen elsewhere.

dustypuma5 said:Look, hollowtrucker77, that’s exactly my point. The alternative medicine section is crawling with losers trying to sell urine, bleach, or water diluted 237 times, plus people pushing sun-gazing nonsense or setting up shady meetings with local con artists and random hustlers...
It needs a massive cleanup, just like that one purge we had before.
On any cancer treatment thread, every single piece of advice like, "If I were you, I'd ditch chemo and go see that magical Uzguz guy who cures 47 types of cancer with dipole radiation from his big toes..." should be banned, in my opinion.

I think this forum is supposed to be a serious place, and if that's the case, you shouldn't let this slide.

That’s one issue, and honestly, I think it's an easy fix.

Then there’s the second issue: people posting in the alternative sections take every scientific fact as a personal insult. I see it all the time, but on a site like forumu.hr, which is actually meant to be legitimate, people with actual scientific backgrounds should be allowed to debunk theories posted by people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about.

It’s not even about democracy or free speech or whatever—it’s about safety. When someone gullible and easily led stumbles onto a thread, they need to be able to read something backed by science or a warning about how dangerous these methods are. That's huge. If you ban guys like steelsurfer42, Chronic Vlado, and the rest, or if you stop someone like Endimon from posting in the alternative section like they used to, then you'll need a disclaimer way bigger than the one we have now. I guess that current one was already a compromise after long negotiations and barely made it through.

Look, I don't care if someone writes about the healing properties of bleach, but I do care if someone deletes a naturalist's description of how much damage bleach does to your stomach flora...

As for insults? Ha! Where have you seen a conflict between Catholics and Muslims, believers and atheists, or vegetarians and meat-eaters... without some insults flying?
That’s already covered by the forum rules regarding conduct. 😁

Besides, saying "sun-gazing is dangerous stupidity" isn't an insult, just like saying a Mig 29 is garbage or that Button is a bad driver isn't an insult to VP.
🙂

Oh, and maybe show some thanks to the people who actually have knowledge and the guts to call stuff out over there. 😉

If we had a debate like that, what would be left of the alternative? 🤷

Jose White18 said:If we had a debate like that, what would be left of the alternative? 🤷

Everything, really! Except they’d probably end up offering an alternative to the alternative. Seriously? 😁

Hey bluemason3, there’s absolutely no reason to shut this down. Sure, maybe if too many "naturalists" showed up they'd clear out all the fog, but that's not even the real issue here. The real problem is the people actually creating the fog in the first place!

Jose White18 said:If we had a debate like that, what would be left of the alternative? 🤷

So what’s left of that vegetarianism thread on the SoN forum? I mean, the moderators are clearly meat-eaters themselves. It’s not like anyone is banned from sharing their views on being a vegetarian, but it’s also not against the rules to push back with actual scientific evidence and show how harmful it can be.

So, I guess the debate would just keep going.

I guess the whole point of this forum isn't to be some kind of advice column, even if it helps sometimes. It’s more about just throwing arguments back and forth to see what sticks.

Are you maybe thinking of that debate where you alternative dismissed right out of the gate as just some quacks? here

👏

That was quite the discussion...

steelsurfer42 said:Everything, really! Except they’d probably end up offering an alternative to the alternative. Seriously? 😁

Hey bluemason3, there’s absolutely no reason to shut this down. Sure, maybe if too many "naturalists" showed up they'd clear out all the fog, but that's not even the real issue here. The real problem is the people actually creating the fog in the first place!

The real issue here is the off-topic drifting. Just look at what that cancer treatment thread turned into. If these debates are allowed to run wild, any topic could easily morph into a pro-versus-con debate about alternative medicine itself. That's pure off-topic territory. On the flip side, if skeptics swoop in and hijack every single discussion like that, you could call it trolling. 😁 I suppose determining where the actual discussion ends and the chaos begins is just a matter of moderator judgment. 🤷

Jose White18 said:Are you maybe thinking of that debate where you alternative dismissed right out of the gate as just some quacks? here

👏

That was quite the discussion...

But look, if someone drops some theory or a new method, they gotta prove it. Until there's actual proof, most people are just gonna think it's nonsense.

I don't see anything weird about that. That's just life.

It wasn't me labeling them, it's just what science says, and science is pretty much what our laws are built on. And the law says that trying to treat cancer by rubbing your hands on your head is definitely quackery.
As long as those laws are in place, you kind of have to follow them. 🙂

dustypuma5 said:But look, if someone drops some theory or a new method, they gotta prove it. Until there's actual proof, most people are just gonna think it's nonsense.

I don't see anything weird about that. That's just life.

It wasn't me labeling them, it's just what science says, and science is pretty much what our laws are built on. And the law says that trying to treat cancer by rubbing your hands on your head is definitely quackery.
As long as those laws are in place, you kind of have to follow them. 🙂

No amount of disclaimers, moderation, or laws will help that small remaining minority. At that point, Sal's initiative basically boils down to protecting adults and capable professionals from themselves. Is it worth it? Does it even make sense?

What kind of scientific evidence do you even expect for something like Tarot readings?
Should we just shut down and delete every thread about that too?