Anesthesia, Resuscitation, and ICU: Q&A

Walter Long82, thanks for the kind words. I really hope things are looking up for you. I'm scheduled to sit down with my anesthesiologist this Tuesday to talk everything through.

Hey everyone!
Here's another one, fresh out of surgery :O
I have a question—I see you guys are loaded with info here, and I am DESPERATE to know... 😁
So, here's the deal... I just had ankle surgery that lasted about 3 hours (it was a corrective procedure from a surgery done a few years back). I've had two surgeries before this and never had any issues with anesthesia. However, I take meds for ADHD (Fevarin - 50 mg, Xanax - up to 2 mg, and Nebilet 2.5 mg 😍 because of my "nervous heart"), and I had a massive reaction to CAVE ETOMIDAT in the form of generalized seizures 😲
Everything settled down fine afterward, really... but I'm wondering how likely it is that there's a connection between those specific meds and an interaction? Generally speaking, I'm pretty healthy 🙂, though on the slimmer side... They asked me about allergies, and all I could tell them was that I'm allergic to crawfish? And I've also had rashes and itching from canned bluefish a couple of times. Are these types of allergies and reactions to anesthetics common...?
Just so you know, the night before surgery, per my agreement with the anesthesiologist, I only took 0.5 mg of Xanax plus 2.5 mg of Nebilet, then another 0.5 mg of Xanax in the morning, and absolutely nothing else until around 1 or 2 PM when the surgery started.
If anyone knows anything, thanks in advance! 🙂

Hey, quick question—anyone know about the aftermath of anesthesia? Specifically, can heavy doses or general anesthesia mess with your equilibrium long-term? Because honestly, I feel like I’m walking around drunk today.

Does anybody actually have an answer for this? 😢

Ashley Jackson43 said:I’m seriously losing my mind here, please, I desperately need some help before I go crazy.🙂

So, I’m about six weeks out from having my baby via C-section, and they used a spinal block to get it done.
Everything went pretty smoothly in the OR, though I do remember the doctor mentioning that the anesthesia wasn't really kicking in quite like she expected at first, but after a little bit of waiting, it finally started to take hold and everything wrapped up just fine.

But honestly, the real nightmare doesn't even start until about the 36-hour mark, which is when my arms and legs just started swelling up like crazy—you know how it goes, though... I mean, I wasn't exactly panicking at first, I just figured it was one of those things that happens.
Then things started getting really weird—I began feeling these pins and needles shooting through my arms and legs, but the absolute worst part was when I’d try to do something simple like grab my phone or even just touch something. It felt like these sudden electric shocks were jolting right through my limbs; honestly, I'm not even sure how else to put it, but it was like these little bursts of electricity hitting me out of nowhere.
I was honestly spiraling a bit during my appointment today, just totally freaking out about everything. I laid it all out for Dr. House, and he basically told me that what I'm feeling is likely just a reaction to the spinal procedure. He thinks it should settle down on its own within about forty days, but if things don't start looking up by then, he wants me to go ahead and check in with a neurologist.

It’s been three days since I finally made it back home, and honestly, those electric shock sensations have finally chilled out, which is a relief, but man, this tingling in my legs is just relentless. It’s driving me absolutely up the wall because the second I try to sit down or lie back to relax, it starts up again without stopping. My hands are feeling a little better, though I’ve definitely noticed a weird change in how they feel—like, everything feels way more intense now, so even just touching something like a rough towel or some coarse fabric feels super overwhelming.

So, I finally made it to the neurologist for that EMG test, and turns out I’ve got chronic L5-S1 radiculopathy going on, which totally explains why my legs feel like they're being hit by lightning sometimes. But when I brought up the weird tingling sensations in my arms, he just looked at me and insisted it was all just anxiety—honestly, it's a bit frustrating when you're feeling physical symptoms and get told it's all in your head, you know? 🙄
So, I've got an appointment lined up with a new neurologist in just a few days, which feels like a bit of a fresh start, honestly.Hey, can someone who actually knows their stuff please help me out here... I'm trying to figure out what exactly went sideways.

I actually dug up this old post from Dr. House where he mentions something pretty similar, so I'm just gonna paste it here.

The main risks you'd probably run into with those specific blocks would mostly be...
So, I was thinking about that whole thing with allergic reactions to local anesthetics—have you guys ever actually had to deal with one of those before? If you've already been through it, then honestly, don't even sweat it because you know what to expect, but if you haven't, you'll pretty much just see how your body handles it when the time comes.
You know, there’s also that risk where an anesthetic accidentally gets injected straight into the vein, and since we’re talking about a pretty heavy dose, things can get messy fast. It can trigger some really scary stuff like heart arrhythmias, passing out, dizziness, or even tingling in your arms and seizures—it all just depends on what kind of anesthetic they're using. Most of those reactions can be managed or dialed back with medication, but man, it’s such a rough ride for the patient; you're already trying to get through surgery, and then you have to deal with all that chaos on top of it.
3) You know, there’s always that tiny risk of accidentally hitting a nerve with the needle, which can lead to some annoying paresthesia—you know, that weird tingling or numbness where you just lose feeling in a certain area for a while. Honestly, most doctors try to dodge that altogether by using ultrasound guidance and nerve stimulators during the block, but at the end of the day, it really comes down to your specific anatomy and how much experience the anesthesiologist actually has under their belt.

Man, I really feel for you, because I went through something similar last year after a nasty accident, and that constant nerve pain is just something else entirely. It’s definitely possible that you’ve got some nerve damage going on, but honestly, whether it ever settles down usually depends on how bad the initial hit was—sometimes it takes a while, but you shouldn't lose hope.

I reached out to Dr. House to see if he could weigh in on this, so fingers crossed he actually gets back to me.🙂

Brenda Clark10 said:Hey guys, I'm wondering about the aftermath of anesthesia—specifically, can a big surgery or even just general anesthesia mess with your sense of balance for a while? Because honestly, I feel like I've been walking around totally drunk all day today.

I really don't think that would be linked to the anesthesia at all, though I've noticed in medical circles how people love to blame everything on the anesthetic procedure, whether there's actually a reason for it or not.🙂

mistyseal11 said:So I was back in the OR again today, though this time it was just for some cosmetic stuff.

I had one of those local anesthesia shots—you know, the kind they give you at the dentist—but I totally blanked on the name... honestly, it was mixed with adrenaline too.

Does anyone remember what that specific combo is called?
And

Lidocaine + adrenaline

Taylor Anderson182 said:Hey there! How's everything going with you?
Here we go again, just another one who's fresh out of surgery... :O
So, I've been hanging around here for a bit and seeing how much everyone knows, and honestly, I’m just dying to pick your brains because I am SO incredibly curious about something... 😁
So, here’s the deal... I just went through this three-hour wrist surgery to fix up some work from a couple of years back—this was actually my second time having them go in on it—and honestly, the anesthesia didn't give me any trouble at all. I am currently on a few different things for my anxiety, though, like 50 mg of Paxil, up to 2 mg of Xanax, and a little bit of Nebivolol just to keep my heart from racing when I get worked up. 😍 I actually had a pretty scary reaction to CAVE Etomidate once, where I ended up having full-on generalized seizures. 😲
Everything went smoothly after that, actually... but I can't help wondering how likely it is that there’s a real connection here with those specific meds and how they might be interacting with each other? For the most part, I've always been pretty healthy. 🙂I mean, I’m built a bit more on the slender side, but honestly... they were asking me about allergies during the intake, and I was just sitting there thinking, "Wait, am I allergic to crawfish?" Seriously, I've also had those annoying rashes and itching fits after eating canned tuna before. Do you think having those kinds of food allergies makes an adverse reaction to anesthesia any more likely?
So, the night before my surgery, I actually had a little chat with my anesthesiologist and we worked out a plan where I just took a 0.5 mg dose of Xanax along with my 2.5 mg Nebilet, and then I took another 0.5 mg of Xanax the next morning, but honestly, I didn't take anything else at all until around 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon when they finally started the procedure.
If anyone happens to have the scoop on this, I'd really appreciate the help! 🙂

It’s pretty wild to think that a specific combination could actually trigger an allergic reaction, though if we're really looking at hypersensitivity, it's technically possible. I mean, being allergic to certain anesthetics isn't exactly common, but it does happen more often than you'd think. Given everything that was shared here about existing allergies and how that whole situation went down, it honestly seems like getting some formal allergy testing done would be a smart move just to get some peace of mind regarding those meds. It’s definitely something to keep on the radar if there's ever a need for anesthesia down the road.

Scott Allen10 said:It’s unlikely some random combo caused the reaction (assuming this actually is a hypersensitivity reaction). Allergies to certain anesthetics aren't super common, but they definitely exist. Given there's a history of allergies mentioned here and based on what happened, some kind of allergy testing should be done just so the person has some peace of mind regarding those drugs. This definitely needs to be kept in mind if any anesthesia is required down the road.

THANKS for the reply!
🙂
It's driving me crazy, especially since I'm not REALLY allergic to anything, except maybe crawfish... lol. Everything else was just some "isolated" incident, totally out of nowhere :S... otherwise, blue fish is fine by me 🤷
I'm wondering, do those tests cost extra? I heard they can be pretty pricey.... I have supplemental insurance, but I can already see my primary care doctor's face looking at the bill like :O
There we go, another question! 😬

Scott Allen10 said:That shouldn't have anything to do with the anesthesia. Honestly, in medical circles, it’s always such a trend to blame everything on the anesthetic procedure—whether it actually makes sense or not. 🙂

Thanks, Scott Allen10. So I guess it stays a "mystery" then! 🙂

Taylor Anderson182 said:I was wondering, do those extra tests actually cost a fortune? I've heard they can get pretty pricey... I already have supplemental insurance, but even then, looking at my primary care doctor's bill, I can already see how much this is going to hurt my wallet. :O
Well, here we go again—back to square one with another question! 😬

Honestly, I haven't even begun to wrap my head around what the price tag on that would actually look like...🤷....

I’m looking at getting surgery to fix a kilo of hernia in my groin. Here in the States, they usually go with general or spinal anesthesia, but I’ve heard that over in Germany, they mostly just stick to local anesthesia. Can anyone explain why there's such a massive difference in how they handle this?

Also, how long does local anesthesia actually last? Like, is it possible for it to hold up for an hour or two if needed? Thanks!

Taylor Anderson182 said:Hey there!
So, I just had another surgery, fresh off the operating table :O
I’ve got a question—I see you all are a walking encyclopedia here, and I am REALLY dying to know... 😁
Basically... I had ankle surgery, took about 3 hours (it was a corrective procedure from a few years back, my second one), and I never had any issues with anesthesia before. However, I am on meds for ADHD (Faverin - 50 mg, Xanax - up to 2 mg, and Nebilet 2.5 mg—that last one is for my "nervous heart" 😍), and I actually had a reaction to ETOMIDATE, specifically generalized convulsions 😲
Everything settled down fine afterward, don't get me wrong... but I'm wondering how likely it is that there's a connection between those medications and an interaction? Generally speaking, I'm pretty healthy 🙂, though I'm on the skinnier side... they asked if I had any allergies, and I told them I'm allergic to crawfish? And also, a few times I've had a reaction to canned bluefish, like this itchy rash... Are those kinds of allergies and reactions to anesthetics common...?
Just so you know, the night before the surgery, per my agreement with the anesthesiologist, I just took 0.5 mg of Xanax plus 2.5 mg of Nebilet, then another 0.5 mg of Xanax in the morning, and nothing else until around 1 or 2 PM when the surgery started.
If anyone knows anything, thanks in advance! 🙂

Taylor Anderson182 said:THANKS for the reply!
🙂
It's really eating at me, since I'm not even SURELY allergic to anything except crawfish... everything else felt like some "isolated" incidents from a can :S... plus, fresh bluefish at home is totally fine for me 🤷
I was wondering, do those extra tests cost a ton? I heard they can be pretty pricey... I have supplemental insurance, but I can already see my GP's eyes lighting up at the thought of the bill :O
There I go, asking more questions! 😬

I might be able to shed some light on why you react to canned bluefish but not the fresh stuff you make at home.
Quite often, the bluefish itself is improperly preserved (see, bluefish has a lot of the amino acid histidine, which turns into histamine very quickly under suboptimal conditions—and histamine is one of the main triggers for various allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis).
Also, people frequently make dishes using canned bluefish that sit out of the fridge a bit too long, or just stay out on the counter too long, which builds up enough histamine to trigger an allergic reaction—which, in your case, shows up as that itching and rash.
Once you’ve got some freshly caught fish on the table, there’s a much lower chance of running into those kinds of side effects
Man, talking about an epi-attack alongside etomidate... Look, I’m definitely no anesthesiologist, but sometimes people just react a bit "sluggishly," or maybe not as strongly, to standard benzodiazepine premedication (like midazolam or diazepam). Since you mentioned you’re already on a regular dose of a benzo—specifically Xanax, or alprazolam—maybe, and I really want to emphasize maybe, you might be a little more "resistant" to how benzos work. That could be why you didn't react as intensely to the premedication. This is strictly my own theory, though; I don't have any idea what the actual surgical protocol looked like, so I'm really just throwing out guesses 😉

velvetmoose9 said:Maybe I can help clear up why you might react to canned sardines but not when they're cooked at home.
Super often, the fish itself is just poorly preserved. Sardines have a lot of histidine, which turns into histamine really fast if conditions aren't perfect—and histamine is one of those main culprits behind allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis.
Plus, people make all sorts of dishes with canned fish and let them sit out too long, or just leave them on the counter, creating enough histamine to trigger that itching and rash you're feeling.
But when you prep fresh fish at home, the odds of that kind of side effect are way lower.
And about that epi-attack with the etomidate... Look, I'm no anesthesiologist, but sometimes people just respond "slower" or weaker to benzo premedication (like midazolam or diazepam). Since you mentioned you're on a regular dose of a benzodiazepine (Xanax, aka alprazolam)—maybe, and I'm stressing maybe —you might be a bit more "resistant" to benzos, which would explain why the premedication didn't hit you as hard. It's strictly my own guess since I don't know the surgical protocol, so I'm just speculating.😉

THANKS for the comment!
🙂 Honestly, I think I was subconsciously terrified of anesthesia because of those drugs... I'm constantly reading about drug interactions that can be fatal
... even though my last two surgeries went totally fine. I'm basically immune to those meds now (I'm actually in the middle of tapering off) 😢... and reading about Xanax withdrawal symptoms, like how stopping abruptly can cause seizures, makes it even scarier.😳... I know it's hard to say for sure, but I think there's truth in everything you wrote.😲 ☕
That theory about needing "something stronger via IV" is interesting; logically, I'd say you're probably right.😁
The sardine thing is the same story—I've read a bit about that too, and you just confirmed my suspicions. Canned fish is basically Russian roulette, and I won't even go near a tin of it anymore.🙂
Anyway, this is all just grasping in the dark, but it helps when someone actually explains things. Doctors rarely have the patience to do that, unfortunately.
The anesthesiologist actually asked me, "Is Xanax a benzodiazepine? Is it?!" 🤷
God...
thanks everyone...
gotta get away from the chemicals long-term!😍

p.s. - I am DEFINITELY more resistant to benzos, as the saying goes... I'm balancing on tiny doses mostly for the placebo effect now, but it's time to kick this habit.😉

Taylor Anderson182 said:Thanks for the comment! 🙂
I don’t know, I think I’ve just been living in my own head too much lately, but I’ve definitely had this deep-seated, subconscious fear about going under anesthesia. It’s mostly because of all those meds... I swear, if you spend any time scrolling through medical forums or reading up on drug interactions, it starts to feel like a minefield. Every single day it feels like I'm stumbling onto some new horror story about how certain combinations can be absolutely lethal. It really gets under your skin when you start overthinking the science of it all. 😢Even though my first two rounds of anesthesia went off without a hitch, I’ve pretty much built up a massive tolerance to those meds by now. Honestly, I'm actually right in the middle of tapering off them at the moment. 😳 So, I was just sitting here reading through everything... So, I’ve been seeing a lot of people asking about what the withdrawal crisis actually feels like when you're coming off Xanax. It's not just some minor inconvenience, either—it can get pretty heavy if you aren't careful. Honestly, it’s one of those things where everyone’s experience is slightly different, but there are definitely some common patterns that pop up. Usually, it starts with this creeping sense of anxiety that feels way more intense than whatever you were originally taking the meds for. You might feel incredibly jittery, like your skin is crawling or you just can't sit still for more than five minutes. Then comes the physical stuff: headaches that won't quit, muscle twitches, and sometimes even nausea or stomach issues that make you want to stay curled up on the couch all day. One thing people don't always mention is how much it messes with your head. I know someone who went through this, and they described feeling totally disconnected, almost like they were watching their life happen from behind a pane of glass. Sleep becomes a total nightmare, too—either you can't shut your brain off at all, or you fall into these weird, restless bouts of sleep that leave you feeling exhausted when you wake up. In more severe cases, you can deal with tremors or even sensory stuff like light sensitivity or ringing in the ears. It’s a rough ride, and it’s definitely not something you want to just "white knuckle" through on your own without knowing what to expect. If things start feeling overwhelming, it's worth talking to a doctor or a professional to figure out a way to taper down safely. Just look out for yourself, okay? For instance, one of the telltale signs of a sudden withdrawal is that you might experience an actual seizure.😲I mean, it’s pretty tough to call anything for sure at this stage, but looking at everything you've laid out here, I honestly think there's some real truth to what you're saying. ☕
It’s an interesting theory, honestly—this idea that I just need to go out and get something heavier straight into my veins to feel normal again. 😁 It’s entirely possible—if I’m being totally honest and just taking a wild, uneducated guess here—that we can actually wrap our heads around this.
Bluefish, yeah, it’s the same old story. I’ve done some digging into this stuff myself, and honestly, you guys just confirmed exactly what I was already starting to suspect. Buying pre-packaged fish feels like playing a game of Russian roulette most days, but as for canned seafood? Yeah, I'm officially done. I won't even go near the canned aisle anymore. 🙂
Honestly, this feels like I'm just fumbling around in the dark here, but it’s a hell of a lot easier when someone actually takes a second to point things out—even if it's just a rough idea. It's just a shame that most people don't have the slightest bit of desire to help you figure stuff out, unfortunately.
So, I'm sitting there in the pre-op area, just waiting for everything to get started, when the anesthesiologist wanders over to check in on me. He gives me that standard look—you know, the one where they’re trying to be friendly but you can tell they’re already mentally calculating dosages—and then he hits me with this question about my meds. He goes, "So, regarding the Xanax... that's a benzodiazepine, right?" I just kind of stared at him for a second. It was one of those moments where you realize how much of a gap there can be between what we think we're communicating and what they're actually processing. I wasn't even trying to be difficult, but it felt like such a basic thing to double-check, though I guess from their perspective, they have to be absolutely certain before they start pumping you full of the heavy stuff. It's funny how these clinical interactions always feel slightly surreal when you're the one lying there waiting to drift off.!" 🤷
Man... what a mess.
Thanks, everyone... I really appreciate it.
Honestly, if you're looking at the long game, you really need to start distancing yourself from all that chemical stuff. Seriously, just get away from it before it becomes your whole life.😍

Honestly, when people start tapering off their benzos—whether it’s Alex, Xanax, or Meyer—epileptic seizures are incredibly rare. I mean, if I’m being totally real, I can’t even remember a single instance of one happening. When you take it slow and steady with a gradual taper, the side effects stay pretty mild. Usually, a little bit of moral support from friends or family is all you really need, and everything generally goes smoothly without any major drama.
When you suddenly drop off, it can honestly feel just like a nasty bout of the flu—you’re dealing with that heavy sweating, aches all over, insomnia, and that restless, jittery feeling... but it usually burns out pretty fast, maybe two or three days at most, though I guess everything is different depending on the person.
If you’re planning on hitting up the blue fish later, it might actually make sense to knock back an antihistamine—maybe even like 6 hours ahead of time, though honestly, it’s pretty hit or miss depending on how long it takes for those H1 receptors to get "saturated" by the meds. Some people might need to dose up like 2 or 3 days prior, since everyone’s body reacts differently. Given my size, I’d probably just stick to one 120mg Telfast tablet a day to keep things steady.
Honestly, whether they should have cranked up the pre-medication is one of those questions that only someone who’s been around the block—like a veteran anesthesiologist or maybe a heavy-hitting clinical pharmacologist who’s actually dug through the patient's full medical history—could really give you a straight answer on.
Look, if you ever find yourself needing to go under for some kind of surgery down the road, just make sure you keep this info handy. You’ll definitely want to mention these details to the anesthesiologist before they get started. 😉

velvetmoose9 said:When people taper off alprazolams (Alex, Xanax, Meyer...), panic attacks are super rare—honestly, I can't even remember one happening. If you taper slowly, the side effects are pretty mild; just a little bit of verbal reassurance and things usually go smoothly.
If you quit cold turkey, though, it can feel like a brutal flu (sweating, body aches, insomnia, restlessness...), but even that passes fast, usually within 2-3 days (though again, everyone's different).
For someone with low body mass—it might make sense to take an antihistamine (like Telfast 120mg once a day, given that weight) about 6 hours (maybe even 2-3 days before, since it depends on when those H1 receptors get "saturated") before the procedure.
As for whether we need to "beef up" the pre-medication, only an experienced anesthesiologist or a clinical pharmacologist looking at your actual medical records could give a definitive answer.
Bottom line: if you ever need anesthesia in the future, you absolutely have to mention this. 😉

I'm giving up on the low body mass thing😁
unless my mom's heart condition flares up.😍
Look, I know panic attacks are extreme symptoms, but they only happen during a sudden "crash" from the meds.
Yeah, it sounded nasty, and my first thought was that it was my reaction to taking CE, but after that, everything was fine.
I've been on benzos for years now. Unfortunately, I didn't get put on antidepressants until way too late, which basically fixed my anxiety/depression issues... the benzos were just a loop, more or less supportive therapy, but I just couldn't shake them.🙂
And that’s probably why I’ve built up such a massive tolerance to them. 🤷
Anyway, I'm adding this whole thing with the CE anesthetic to my medical file as a note.
Yeah... let's hope I don't end up needing surgery anytime soon.
Even then, my anesthesiologist told me later that reactions and interactions are actually more common with local anesthesia, so now I'm even scared of going to the dentist.😲
It feels like a rigged game, honestly.😕
Thanks, and hope I'm not bugging you guys too much.😛

Hi everyone! I’m reaching out because I have a bit of a dilemma and, honestly, I’m feeling pretty anxious. My child needs to undergo surgery to have all three tonsils removed, and I’m struggling with some serious nerves. It stems from a scary experience my husband had in the past—he had a really rough time coming out of anesthesia where they couldn't wake him up right away, and he says it felt like they were using electrical stimulation just to get a response from him. Is it possible for something like that to be hereditary? I'm terrified that my child might face the same issue, or even something much worse.

wiredpanther47 said:Hey everyone! I’m feeling pretty anxious about something. My kid needs surgery to have all three tonsils removed, and I'm honestly freaking out because my husband had this terrifying experience where they couldn't wake him up from anesthesia. He claims they actually had to use electric shocks to bring him around. Is it possible for that kind of thing to be hereditary, or could it happen to my child too? Or is there something even worse we should be worried about?

Honestly, just sit down and hash out every single doubt or question you have with the anesthesiologist before anything happens. That's really your best bet for peace of mind.

As for that whole "waking up with electricity" thing, that's just not how things work in actual medical practice, so please don't let those scary stories get under your skin.
Good luck with everything.

Scott Allen10 said:Your best bet is to clear up all those doubts and questions directly with the anesthesiologist. That’s definitely the smartest way to go.

As for this whole "waking up with electric shocks" thing—it just doesn't hold water in actual practice, so please don't let those stories scare you.
Best of luck.

Thank you all so much for the replies. Of course, I fully intend to grill the anesthesiologist with a mountain of questions once we meet, but in the meantime, I’m just struggling with so much anxiety and nerves. If it were me undergoing the procedure, I wouldn't be nearly this panicked, but when it comes to my child, the fear is overwhelming—especially because of what my husband described regarding his own reaction to anesthesia. Honestly, even I find this idea of "waking up with electric shocks" strange, but he explained it to me twice now. At first, I thought he was just exaggerating, but he's been very adamant about it. I'm just praying that these kinds of reactions aren't hereditary.😢(

I've had a fistula near my rectal opening for about 37 years now. It opens up occasionally and leaks some discharge, which was left over from an old infection and cleaning of a perianal abscess where the tracts weren't fully cleared. My doctors say that after all this time, trying to operate to clean out the channel has a pretty low success rate. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much. It isn't painful, it just leaks a tiny bit of fluid once in a while, and I stay on top of my hygiene.
The real question is, can I—or should I—undergo hip surgery, specifically for both hips, without any complications? If Scott Allen10 has a moment, I’d love to hear his take, or if anyone else here has dealt with something similar.