GP Germany - 07/25/2010

mistybear87 said:Good grief, a 2.9-second pit stop for tires... 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏

Is anyone else seeing this? It seems like absolutely nobody is talking about it.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85532

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Edward Howard2 said:Jenson Button let Lewis Hamilton back past and then he was gone, totally out of reach. 😉
They were saving fuel. 🤣

I didn't see it as him being let through—it felt more like one of those classic, impulsive moves from Lewis, where Button actually made the only sensible call in the situation.

Morgan Murphy7 said:That's exactly how PAto works!

If you ask me, these bans are completely pointless.

If everything had been played fair back in 2007, Kimi Räikkönen would never have been champion because he wouldn't have had to yield to Felipe Massa.

Of course the team is going to order someone to let another pass when even a fool can see that 25 points are far more vital for Alonso than for Massa, given that the latter still has a shot at the title.

Yeah, but like I said before—if they're going to do it, they shouldn't make it so incredibly blatant—otherwise, with the statements being made, it just makes us all look like idiots.👎

Morgan Murphy7 said:That's exactly how PAto works!

If you ask me, these bans are completely pointless.

If everything had been played fair back in 2007, Kimi Räikkönen would never have been champion because he wouldn't have had to yield to Felipe Massa.

Of course the team is going to order someone to let another pass when even a fool can see that 25 points are far more vital for Alonso than for Massa, given that the latter still has a shot at the title.

They were letting Kimi drive freely toward the end of the season, but up until then, they were treated as equals.

And let's be honest, nobody can ever truly be on equal footing with Fernando Alonso.
I think my favorite version of him was the 2007 era, when he kept us entertained with those dirty tactical moves—like that pit stop situation in Canada. Dealing with a spoiled little Lewis Hamilton is just unbearable, and in the end, both of them ended up the same way.🙄😂🤣

mistybear87 said:Why on earth would anyone act like such fools?
Would they really be fools if they didn't pull out every single tool in their arsenal just to clinch the title? I mean, when you think about it, isn't that exactly what greatness requires?

If we’re being completely honest with ourselves here—and I mean truly, brutally honest—Felipe Massa was sitting 31 points behind Fernando Alonso and roughly 80 points adrift of Lewis Hamilton. Looking at those numbers, can anyone really stand there, without a shred of embarrassment, and argue that Massa had any realistic shot at clinching the championship with a deficit like that? It just seems mathematically impossible, doesn't it?
It looks like Fernando Alonso is going to have a hell of a time trying to close that 34-point gap to Lewis Hamilton before the season wraps up, let alone actually snatching the championship away. As for Felipe Massa, honestly, it feels like an almost impossible mission at this stage.

Those people drawing comparisons back to 2002 are honestly barking up the wrong tree. Back then, MS had such a massive lead in the championship that it wouldn't have mattered if Red Bull had let him through or not. For anyone who caught the latest episode of Top Gear a couple of weeks ago, you probably heard the actual truth about what went down—something that certain analysts clearly haven't bothered to grasp. It wasn't even a case of Red Bull needing to let him past on that final lap; the real story is that the team was locked in this heated argument with the pit wall for the last eight laps. It only happened because they finally pulled rank and issued a threat to him... though I won't say exactly what that threat was.
At the end of the day, it really comes down to the championship hunt. It’s perfectly understandable why they made that move, regardless of whether you think it was fair or not. Money moves the needle in this world, doesn't it? ☕

I'd sign my name to that if I could.🙏

Wait, I missed this one... Jessica is back 😍

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/250720...ife-track.html

redheron12 said:Yeah, but like I said before—if they're going to do it, they shouldn't make it so incredibly blatant—otherwise, with the statements being made, it just makes us all look like idiots.👎

I have to agree. It feels incredibly mindless and lacks any real substance.😁

It's just one more reason why this ban needs to be lifted; it's utterly senseless.

redheron12 said:I mean, hello? In both instances, Kimi Räikkönen just kept losing ground—he was significantly slower than Lewis Hamilton. Even if he had just missed him once, it wouldn't be an issue, but this... he was absolutely disastrous in both races.

Wasn't Felipe Massa actually slower than Fernando Alonso today? I feel like the only reason Alonso ended up four seconds ahead is because Massa was just cruising at a slower pace the whole time. It makes it look like Alonso was faster when he really wasn't.😂

Just look back at the chaos of China 2008 to see how these things actually play out... Felipe Massa is talking absolute nonsense just like Fernando Alonso is doing today, while Kimi Räikkönen probably just sits there laughing at both the journalist and Massa... when he’s asked about it, he'd likely just shrug and say he has no idea why everyone is acting so shocked, since it was all perfectly standard and business as usual 🤣

mistybear87 said:Why on earth would anyone act like such fools?
Would they really be fools if they didn't pull out every single tool in their arsenal just to clinch the title? I mean, when you think about it, isn't that exactly what greatness requires?

If we’re being completely honest with ourselves here—and I mean truly, brutally honest—Felipe Massa was sitting 31 points behind Fernando Alonso and roughly 80 points adrift of Lewis Hamilton. Looking at those numbers, can anyone really stand there, without a shred of embarrassment, and argue that Massa had any realistic shot at clinching the championship with a deficit like that? It just seems mathematically impossible, doesn't it?
It looks like Fernando Alonso is going to have a hell of a time trying to close that 34-point gap to Lewis Hamilton before the season wraps up, let alone actually snatching the championship away. As for Felipe Massa, honestly, it feels like an almost impossible mission at this stage.

Those people drawing comparisons back to 2002 are honestly barking up the wrong tree. Back then, MS had such a massive lead in the championship that it wouldn't have mattered if Red Bull had let him through or not. For anyone who caught the latest episode of Top Gear a couple of weeks ago, you probably heard the actual truth about what went down—something that certain analysts clearly haven't bothered to grasp. It wasn't even a case of Red Bull needing to let him past on that final lap; the real story is that the team was locked in this heated argument with the pit wall for the last eight laps. It only happened because they finally pulled rank and issued a threat to him... though I won't say exactly what that threat was.
At the end of the day, it really comes down to the championship hunt. It’s perfectly understandable why they made that move, regardless of whether you think it was fair or not. Money moves the needle in this world, doesn't it? ☕

You're right that the 2002 comparison doesn't hold water, mostly because there weren't even clear rules regarding team orders back then, whereas now those kinds of moves can actually get you penalized...🤷

What would even happen if Formula 1 was moved out of the Sports subforum?😁

cosmicridge5 said:I’d have to agree with 😳. Actually, they’re pushing him way more than they push Ferrari Alonso. You can see it clearly now... if Hemić were trailing Button (just like Nando is behind Massa right now) and still had this many points in the standings, things wouldn't look like this. There's no way they'd let Button have a shot at this 😳

And honestly, the gap between Button and Hemić (in terms of skill, points, and the fact that Button is the reigning world champion!) is much smaller than the massive gap between Nando and Massa when you look at everything else 😳

🤣 🤣 🤣

I know this was posted like 49 laps ago, but I still gotta say my piece. 😬 🤣

Megan Alvarez3 said:What would even happen if Formula 1 was moved out of the Sports subforum?😁

Yeah, they really ought to move that over to television—maybe even package it as a reality show. 👍

Edward Howard2 said:Look, if Red Bull can play favorites with Vettel and McLaren can pull that stunt with Norris, why is everyone acting shocked that Ferrari is backing Alonso? He’s been consistently outclassing Massu all season long, both in qualifying and during the race. You just don't see that kind of gap at Red Bull or McLaren right now.

Give me a break. If Webber hadn't braked like that, Vettel would've blown past him. Stop with the favoritism talk.🤣

redheron12 said:Yeah, they really ought to move that over to television—maybe even package it as a reality show. 👍

Not really, more like under a landslide.😁

It’s obvious that Vettel is the clear number one at Red Bull despite how much Christian Horner tries to deny it, just like Hamilton is the lead at McLaren. So why is everyone acting shocked that Massa has to step aside for Fernando Alonso?😕He wouldn't even touch a new contract unless they agreed to let him be the second driver...
Alonso actually has a shot at the title, whereas Massa wouldn't win it even if he were racing all by himself...😂

To quote Žalons: 'This is ridiculous'

cosmicridge5 said:Give me a break. If Button had about 60 points right now and we were looking at this exact scenario over at McLaren, you really think they wouldn't do whatever it takes to ensure Lewis finishes first? Anyone who thinks otherwise is being incredibly naive. Whether it’s done through direct orders or some subtle coded messages, the end result is just as unfair. Though, I suppose you could argue whether it even counts as "unfair" when you consider the massive stakes, the money, and the underlying politics, much like what Blaze and Novak were mentioning earlier.

That whole fuel situation at McLaren is basically just a team order 🤷 wrapped in a slightly more sophisticated disguise, but it's still transparent to everyone watching. We all know team orders exist; it’s nothing new or surprising. The only difference is the method—at McLaren, they use fuel levels, whereas here they just tell Mass that Nando is faster, which he actually 😁
was.
So, what is the actual difference in the grand scheme of things? Let's not be hypocrites 😁

Yeah, and Sebastian Vettel is a massive jerk because of some wing issue, just like the entire Red Bull crew, but apparently that's totally fine.🙏

It looks like Ferrari finally tracked down the brain they misplaced a few seasons back. 👍

We’re cruising toward the finish line just like this—routine as hell—and if we play our cards right, that title is still within reach. 👍

Fernando Alonso 👍
The ultimate team player, Felipe baby 👍

Sebastian Vettel 🙂 😛

It’s all great, but let’s not lose sight of the reality—McLaren is currently running a significantly slower car, yet they’ve somehow managed to widen the gap over the rest of the field. Eventually, that new diffuser is going to click into place.

In the meantime, the goal should be damage limitation and staying consistent—which actually works in our favor, given how much Mark Webber, Fernando Alonso, and Sebastian Vettel are busy taking points off one another.