Request to merge "Tiki" thread into "Religion" PDF

Since I’m naturally against everything, I guess I’ll stick to my guns and oppose tearing down this blessed virtual space. As someone carrying the roots of the Bektashi tradition, I am strictly against demolishing this spiritual banquet hall—especially now, when the Ashik vibe is hitting its peak and everyone is finally revealing their true colors. Hearts have struck hearts, reason has been clouded by wisdom, and the soulful have become even more deep; spirituality is pouring out while the wine spills over. Look, if we act like this here, we’ll just be different people somewhere else. So, sure, moving on is fine, but everyone has to pay their own way and carry what they want, leaving behind whatever they choose in this crumbling building to forget. We’ve been drunk for a long time; we’ll stumble far, sleep soundly, and throw up smoothly. We arrived with decent souls, and we left with even better ones; at the marketplace of dead heads, all that remains is a place of spiritual laughter. Basically, whoever leaves—may their poor mother pity those they meet along the way. And whoever stays? Well, their poor mother won't see them return alive, because this banquet consumes the living.

LOOK UPON US, LORD

Look upon us, Lord, for we are devoted to You,
To Your beautiful Word; we are its nightingales!

O God, My Lord,
there is no god but God!
O God, You are the Truth,
there is no god but God!
Your face is eternal,
there is no god but God,
and everything else is fleeting,
there is no god but God,
and everything else is fleeting,
there is no god but God!

Our turbans are green, our cloaks are mauve
and, God willing, red, dyed atop Mount Everest!

When Mount Sinai hears the eternal hymns,
it falls silent and submissive; even Moses wouldn't know what hit him!

Hey, Potter, put your hand right on top of the kiln!
"Everything is burning for you, Alice, even if you can't see the flameb>!"

get the bulldozers moving

http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/smiles/smiles_415.gif" alt="image" loading="lazy" class="bb-img">

What really bugs me first and foremost is how people act at the Dervish Lodge—specifically the way they pick sides, especially favoring Asad lately. I can’t change them, and honestly, I don’t want to. Everyone does what they think is right. I feel bad for Asad because he’s let fame go straight to his head, but hey, he’s young. He’s got plenty of time to figure it out.
Basically, I’d rather see the Dervish Lodge shut down because that wasn't the original goal here—if you read the first post, this space serves the Dervish (Muslim.com is the Dervish). As for moderation, I looked it up myself. The quality of religious PDFs has hit rock bottom, but I won't blame anyone else; we all know how this works. It’s on us, not them. Brothers, remember the hadiths and verses about that. Not even the moderators—who play a massive role, though rowdyhawk10 is doing the least right now—are off the hook. Banning Humaninside was justified, sure, but the way he was handled during moderation was unfair, which is why Humaninside reacted the way he did.
Anyway, I’ve distanced myself from all these circles, mostly thanks to an answer to a question I once saw:

Where or what is the root of vanity?
The inner unrest driving someone to show off outwardly.

Truth is the best thing, but there are different ways to handle it. People just do whatever suits them.

If anyone ever got anything out of the Dervish Lodge, I did. So, look... if the Dervish sincerely thinks it’s best to close things down, why shouldn't it happen? He started this thread; he has every right to ask for it to end. The key... well, we'll see. It's not set in stone.

I’m standing by the Dervish here. I don't think he's being manipulated, even if a lot of people call him naive. He’s actually quite thoughtful; it's just that some people can't stomach his kindness, so it's easier to label him as naive. Whatever.

God blessed me with meeting people who truly want more for others than they do for themselves through the Dervish Lodge. That’s one of the greatest blessings a human can have in this life. Now, go ahead and say this thread is nothing or that I'm too attached... well, I am attached, but not in a "wearing it like a necklace" kind of way.

P.S. Whoever is lobbying for something, they're just lobbying for themselves. One way or another.

rowdyhawk10 said:

• Please bear with us for a little while longer. Consultations are currently underway.
  
  We are striving to develop the best possible solution and ensure we act appropriately. In the meantime, please feel free to share your thoughts—whether you agree or disagree—regarding the recent proposal from the Dervish, for which we are grateful. We especially welcome input from those who have been actively contributing to the Tekiju all this time. Peace be upon you.

rowdyhawk10, I’ve always wondered what it feels like to be locked inside a Dervish Lodge while the whole thing is being torn down.

So, I guess I'll just stay inside and watch it happen.

boldgull19 said:What really bugs me first and foremost is how people act at the Dervish Lodge—specifically the way they pick sides, especially favoring Asad lately. I can’t change them, and honestly, I don’t want to. Everyone does what they think is right. I feel bad for Asad because he’s let fame go straight to his head, but hey, he’s young. He’s got plenty of time to figure it out.
Basically, I’d rather see the Dervish Lodge shut down because that wasn't the original goal here—if you read the first post, this space serves the Dervish (Muslim.com is the Dervish). As for moderation, I looked it up myself. The quality of religious PDFs has hit rock bottom, but I won't blame anyone else; we all know how this works. It’s on us, not them. Brothers, remember the hadiths and verses about that. Not even the moderators—who play a massive role, though rowdyhawk10 is doing the least right now—are off the hook. Banning Humaninside was justified, sure, but the way he was handled during moderation was unfair, which is why Humaninside reacted the way he did.
Anyway, I’ve distanced myself from all these circles, mostly thanks to an answer to a question I once saw:

Where or what is the root of vanity?
The inner unrest driving someone to show off outwardly.

Truth is the best thing, but there are different ways to handle it. People just do whatever suits them.

If anyone ever got anything out of the Dervish Lodge, I did. So, look... if the Dervish sincerely thinks it’s best to close things down, why shouldn't it happen? He started this thread; he has every right to ask for it to end. The key... well, we'll see. It's not set in stone.

I’m standing by the Dervish here. I don't think he's being manipulated, even if a lot of people call him naive. He’s actually quite thoughtful; it's just that some people can't stomach his kindness, so it's easier to label him as naive. Whatever.

God blessed me with meeting people who truly want more for others than they do for themselves through the Dervish Lodge. That’s one of the greatest blessings a human can have in this life. Now, go ahead and say this thread is nothing or that I'm too attached... well, I am attached, but not in a "wearing it like a necklace" kind of way.

P.S. Whoever is lobbying for something, they're just lobbying for themselves. One way or another.

👍

If anyone actually got anything out of the Dervish Lodge, I know I certainly did, so... look, if the Dervish truly feels that closing this down is the best move, then I don't see why it shouldn't happen. He's the one who kicked this whole thread off in the first place, so he definitely has the right to ask for it to be shut down. As for the key... well, we'll just have to wait and see, since nothing here is set in stone.

Well, you aren't the only one feeling like my shadow lately... I really don't want to get too deep into this, but man, those words they say just carry such an incredible weight. 🙄 😍Honestly, I struggle with being a bit too talkative sometimes, so I’ll occasionally blurt out something that actually makes sense, though more often than not, I just end up totally missing the mark.😁 Well, at least there are still plenty of good people around, so they haven't kicked me out just yet!😂

P.S. At the end of the day, anyone out there playing favorites is really just looking out for themselves, one way or another.

I’m a huge advocate for friendship, for basic humanity, and for those deep, soulful connections that just make life feel full and sweet. I believe in true equality for everyone—it doesn't matter who you are or where you come from, because at the end of the day, we all answer to one single Judge. I’m always rooting for laughter to dry up those forced tears, and I’m a big believer in finding that kind of spiritual, virtual escape from the heavy, logical grind of everyday life. Looking back at my own journey, I actually started out by pushing back hard against Sufism while I was hanging out at the Dervish Lodge; honestly, I used to love debating Christian doctrine there too, but Sufism ended up winning my heart all on its own. It was through this very Dervish Lodge that I found the spark to start diving into books about the inner dimensions of the human soul and spirit, which eventually cultivated this profound sense of connection to the Most High and the Merciful. So, if I ever decide to fully commit myself, it’ll be solely for the sake of God—and maybe only because I’ll look back on these days and the things certain people here have written. But the real key for me was discovering a love for Him within myself, and the Dervish Lodge was simply the spark that lit the flame. 😍 I wouldn't normally be this open about my thoughts, but I suppose I’m just a bit more outspoken than most since I'm actually against these lockdowns—mostly because I have such a massive collection of these photos that they just keep cycling through my mind, and honestly, it feels like everyone is constantly chiming in with their own jokes and commentary! I really do feel terrible if we've gone and broken steeleagle2's trust.😢 If this move helps protect the Dervish Lodge, then I am all for it. Honestly, we all know exactly who is actually running the show there, which is why it’s such a sweet spot to visit when you just want to unwind, relax, and grab a drink. It's all under the guidance of the One to whom nothing is equal. 🙂




Peace be upon you

Donna Cook48 said:👍

If anyone actually got anything out of the Dervish Lodge, I know I certainly did, so... look, if the Dervish truly feels that closing this down is the best move, then I don't see why it shouldn't happen. He's the one who kicked this whole thread off in the first place, so he definitely has the right to ask for it to be shut down. As for the key... well, we'll just have to wait and see, since nothing here is set in stone.

Well, you aren't the only one feeling like my shadow lately... I really don't want to get too deep into this, but man, those words they say just carry such an incredible weight. 🙄 😍Honestly, I struggle with being a bit too talkative sometimes, so I’ll occasionally blurt out something that actually makes sense, though more often than not, I just end up totally missing the mark.😁 Well, at least there are still plenty of good people around, so they haven't kicked me out just yet!😂

P.S. At the end of the day, anyone out there playing favorites is really just looking out for themselves, one way or another.

I’m a huge advocate for friendship, for basic humanity, and for those deep, soulful connections that just make life feel full and sweet. I believe in true equality for everyone—it doesn't matter who you are or where you come from, because at the end of the day, we all answer to one single Judge. I’m always rooting for laughter to dry up those forced tears, and I’m a big believer in finding that kind of spiritual, virtual escape from the heavy, logical grind of everyday life. Looking back at my own journey, I actually started out by pushing back hard against Sufism while I was hanging out at the Dervish Lodge; honestly, I used to love debating Christian doctrine there too, but Sufism ended up winning my heart all on its own. It was through this very Dervish Lodge that I found the spark to start diving into books about the inner dimensions of the human soul and spirit, which eventually cultivated this profound sense of connection to the Most High and the Merciful. So, if I ever decide to fully commit myself, it’ll be solely for the sake of God—and maybe only because I’ll look back on these days and the things certain people here have written. But the real key for me was discovering a love for Him within myself, and the Dervish Lodge was simply the spark that lit the flame. 😍 I wouldn't normally be this open about my thoughts, but I suppose I’m just a bit more outspoken than most since I'm actually against these lockdowns—mostly because I have such a massive collection of these photos that they just keep cycling through my mind, and honestly, it feels like everyone is constantly chiming in with their own jokes and commentary! I really do feel terrible if we've gone and broken steeleagle2's trust.😢 If this move helps protect the Dervish Lodge, then I am all for it. Honestly, we all know exactly who is actually running the show there, which is why it’s such a sweet spot to visit when you just want to unwind, relax, and grab a drink. It's all under the guidance of the One to whom nothing is equal. 🙂

I’d love to treat everyone to some tea so nobody leaves the Dervish Lodge feeling hungry...👍

Peace be upon you

👍 I get it, but I don't feel right speaking for someone else... besides, it's always a two-way street anyway.

boldgull19 said:What really bugs me first and foremost is how people act at the Dervish Lodge—specifically the way they pick sides, especially favoring Asad lately. I can’t change them, and honestly, I don’t want to. Everyone does what they think is right. I feel bad for Asad because he’s let fame go straight to his head, but hey, he’s young. He’s got plenty of time to figure it out.
Basically, I’d rather see the Dervish Lodge shut down because that wasn't the original goal here—if you read the first post, this space serves the Dervish (Muslim.com is the Dervish). As for moderation, I looked it up myself. The quality of religious PDFs has hit rock bottom, but I won't blame anyone else; we all know how this works. It’s on us, not them. Brothers, remember the hadiths and verses about that. Not even the moderators—who play a massive role, though rowdyhawk10 is doing the least right now—are off the hook. Banning Humaninside was justified, sure, but the way he was handled during moderation was unfair, which is why Humaninside reacted the way he did.
Anyway, I’ve distanced myself from all these circles, mostly thanks to an answer to a question I once saw:

Where or what is the root of vanity?
The inner unrest driving someone to show off outwardly.

Truth is the best thing, but there are different ways to handle it. People just do whatever suits them.

If anyone ever got anything out of the Dervish Lodge, I did. So, look... if the Dervish sincerely thinks it’s best to close things down, why shouldn't it happen? He started this thread; he has every right to ask for it to end. The key... well, we'll see. It's not set in stone.

I’m standing by the Dervish here. I don't think he's being manipulated, even if a lot of people call him naive. He’s actually quite thoughtful; it's just that some people can't stomach his kindness, so it's easier to label him as naive. Whatever.

God blessed me with meeting people who truly want more for others than they do for themselves through the Dervish Lodge. That’s one of the greatest blessings a human can have in this life. Now, go ahead and say this thread is nothing or that I'm too attached... well, I am attached, but not in a "wearing it like a necklace" kind of way.

P.S. Whoever is lobbying for something, they're just lobbying for themselves. One way or another.

I read your posts and I have to laugh. The moment the Truth finally comes to light, there is an immediate demand to shut things down, and suddenly darkness erupts here. Why don't you ask yourselves why non-Muslims mock Muslims in other threads, even though you know yourselves that all this writing lacks practical application? This practice is nothing more than dead ink on paper. While my own "fame" hit me, it simultaneously clouded clear minds with the darkness they were hiding within themselves. Take the discussion on Tawhid, for example; I was listening to it long before most of you even stepped foot in a Dervish Lodge, though some here still doubt me. It is easy to talk, but one must demonstrate through action. Many here claim to love God, yet problems flee from them like wolves fleeing from fire. They should ask themselves how deep that love truly runs, for the Messenger said that those who love God should expect trials—that is the clearest sign of an Ashik. One man once told me that the journey of Suluk is impossible for the poor because they cannot give charity. When I shared this with my teacher, he grew angry and told me to just leave that fool alone. Someone might argue he meant it metaphorically, but he meant it literally.
Everything must be subject to criticism, including the Dervish Lodge and Sufism itself. You cannot simply carry the name of Sufism and refuse to do the work. Some here dare to say they don't need formal prayers because they follow the Haqiqa, but that logic only works on the ignorant. Both the Messenger, the companions, and the entire Ulema performed night and morning prayers, and they reached much higher stations than these so-called "seekers of truth." The Messenger performed the night prayer so frequently that his feet swelled, leading Ace to ask him: "Why do you strive so hard when God has already forgiven your past and future sins?" To which he replied: "Should I not be a grateful servant?!" This is just regarding worship; let us not even get into helping others or sacrificing one's life to pull someone else out of the mud. It was well said by rapidmaker6 that many today want one foot leading toward God and the other toward Satan. The Truth hurts, but it must eventually come to light. In my city, the extremists are respected only because most of them actually help others and live by their word, whereas Sufis are despised because they know nothing else besides sitting in the mosque cafe after the morning prayer to drink coffee and lecture for an hour, only to mock whoever crosses their path. Just four days ago, a man—who has nothing to do with faith—told me how he argued with another person over the extremists, specifically because of their sincerity. Therefore, instead of trying to shut down the Dervish Lodge to hide from the Truth, devote yourselves to good deeds. Then, write about the experiences of those deeds in prose and poetry. If you do that, there will be no criticism, and perhaps the Bank will finally start respecting you.

Gary Morales3 said:I read your posts and I have to laugh. The moment the Truth finally comes to light, there is an immediate demand to shut things down, and suddenly darkness erupts here. Why don't you ask yourselves why non-Muslims mock Muslims in other threads, even though you know yourselves that all this writing lacks practical application? This practice is nothing more than dead ink on paper. While my own "fame" hit me, it simultaneously clouded clear minds with the darkness they were hiding within themselves. Take the discussion on Tawhid, for example; I was listening to it long before most of you even stepped foot in a Dervish Lodge, though some here still doubt me. It is easy to talk, but one must demonstrate through action. Many here claim to love God, yet problems flee from them like wolves fleeing from fire. They should ask themselves how deep that love truly runs, for the Messenger said that those who love God should expect trials—that is the clearest sign of an Ashik. One man once told me that the journey of Suluk is impossible for the poor because they cannot give charity. When I shared this with my teacher, he grew angry and told me to just leave that fool alone. Someone might argue he meant it metaphorically, but he meant it literally.
Everything must be subject to criticism, including the Dervish Lodge and Sufism itself. You cannot simply carry the name of Sufism and refuse to do the work. Some here dare to say they don't need formal prayers because they follow the Haqiqa, but that logic only works on the ignorant. Both the Messenger, the companions, and the entire Ulema performed night and morning prayers, and they reached much higher stations than these so-called "seekers of truth." The Messenger performed the night prayer so frequently that his feet swelled, leading Ace to ask him: "Why do you strive so hard when God has already forgiven your past and future sins?" To which he replied: "Should I not be a grateful servant?!" This is just regarding worship; let us not even get into helping others or sacrificing one's life to pull someone else out of the mud. It was well said by rapidmaker6 that many today want one foot leading toward God and the other toward Satan. The Truth hurts, but it must eventually come to light. In my city, the extremists are respected only because most of them actually help others and live by their word, whereas Sufis are despised because they know nothing else besides sitting in the mosque cafe after the morning prayer to drink coffee and lecture for an hour, only to mock whoever crosses their path. Just four days ago, a man—who has nothing to do with faith—told me how he argued with another person over the extremists, specifically because of their sincerity. Therefore, instead of trying to shut down the Dervish Lodge to hide from the Truth, devote yourselves to good deeds. Then, write about the experiences of those deeds in prose and poetry. If you do that, there will be no criticism, and perhaps the Bank will finally start respecting you.

If I were to try and counter that right now, I'd practically have to spin myself in circles, but I won't bother.

rowdyhawk10, just shut this thread down already.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........,...

Gary Morales3 said:I read your posts and I have to laugh. The moment the Truth finally comes to light, there is an immediate demand to shut things down, and suddenly darkness erupts here. Why don't you ask yourselves why non-Muslims mock Muslims in other threads, even though you know yourselves that all this writing lacks practical application? This practice is nothing more than dead ink on paper. While my own "fame" hit me, it simultaneously clouded clear minds with the darkness they were hiding within themselves. Take the discussion on Tawhid, for example; I was listening to it long before most of you even stepped foot in a Dervish Lodge, though some here still doubt me. It is easy to talk, but one must demonstrate through action. Many here claim to love God, yet problems flee from them like wolves fleeing from fire. They should ask themselves how deep that love truly runs, for the Messenger said that those who love God should expect trials—that is the clearest sign of an Ashik. One man once told me that the journey of Suluk is impossible for the poor because they cannot give charity. When I shared this with my teacher, he grew angry and told me to just leave that fool alone. Someone might argue he meant it metaphorically, but he meant it literally.
Everything must be subject to criticism, including the Dervish Lodge and Sufism itself. You cannot simply carry the name of Sufism and refuse to do the work. Some here dare to say they don't need formal prayers because they follow the Haqiqa, but that logic only works on the ignorant. Both the Messenger, the companions, and the entire Ulema performed night and morning prayers, and they reached much higher stations than these so-called "seekers of truth." The Messenger performed the night prayer so frequently that his feet swelled, leading Ace to ask him: "Why do you strive so hard when God has already forgiven your past and future sins?" To which he replied: "Should I not be a grateful servant?!" This is just regarding worship; let us not even get into helping others or sacrificing one's life to pull someone else out of the mud. It was well said by rapidmaker6 that many today want one foot leading toward God and the other toward Satan. The Truth hurts, but it must eventually come to light. In my city, the extremists are respected only because most of them actually help others and live by their word, whereas Sufis are despised because they know nothing else besides sitting in the mosque cafe after the morning prayer to drink coffee and lecture for an hour, only to mock whoever crosses their path. Just four days ago, a man—who has nothing to do with faith—told me how he argued with another person over the extremists, specifically because of their sincerity. Therefore, instead of trying to shut down the Dervish Lodge to hide from the Truth, devote yourselves to good deeds. Then, write about the experiences of those deeds in prose and poetry. If you do that, there will be no criticism, and perhaps the Bank will finally start respecting you.

👍

Gary Morales3, you'll turn out just fine—as long as you keep quoting me... 😛

We might all end up dousing the Dervish Lodge in gasoline and lighting it up together. I'm down. Any joint effort brings some kind of good, even if it’s just getting persecuted and thrown in jail as a team.

I'm already thinking about starting a Banquet thread on the Forum, so we can all hang out there once the Dervish Lodge is toast.

There’s a lot going on around the site lately, yet the Religion subforum hasn't seen a single post about it—which means the Dervish Lodge section within that subforum has gone quiet too. The reasons behind this are so tangled and complex that I don't even feel like typing them out! But look, unless we're talking about obvious bullies, nobody should ever feel like they have to walk on eggshells when posting here. People react to that "fear" in all sorts of ways, from acting out to just tip-toeing around.
The Dervish Lodge section always had its own unique flair, or at least that's how it felt. But it only takes one topic hitting close to home for a user, and if there are a few more like that? Well, then you've got a real mess on your hands... along with jealousy, envy, and all that other stuff that usually follows anything truly refined. It reminds me of what an old grandmother might tell her granddaughter: "Sweetheart, you are pure silk, but watch yourself—there are rough hands out there in the world."
On the flip side, in an attempt to preserve the "idea of Islam"—which really does require a certain level of discipline (and honestly, that's a good thing)—this harder, more rigid school of thought emerges. Now, in my humble opinion, this stricter group always seems to lack a bit of "methodology," or rather, balance. If you lean too hard on that "toughness" (which inherently involves applying pressure), you run the risk of snapping the branch entirely. The awkward part is that when you snap it, you lose the good parts right along with the bad. From the perspective of Sufism, I suppose you have to hand things over to those who are truly "seasoned"—those who have walked the long road and actually know where the traps and pitfalls are hidden.
So, we're stuck somewhere between that rigidity and that refinement, trying to find a middle ground. How? Hmm, I don't know, I haven't a clue (even though both sides make sense to me and I get where they're coming from). I guess we should just aim for whatever serves the greatest good for everyone here. But hey, who am I to say what that is? We're back to the seasoned versus the unseasoned again.
Anyway, since this whole battle has become so messy—where nobody knows who's buying the drinks or paying the tab (the state of the forum is pretty chaotic and anarchic right now)—I think that’s exactly why Dervin wants to close this thread. It’s all somewhat connected to closing down the "Banquet Hall" and banning Humanside (but hey, let's not be jerks, heavens forbid).

Whatever. I'm of the same mind as the Dervish, and regardless of the reasons or how people view that decision, the will of those who started this thread should be respected.

Dervish, Peace be upon you!
The Dervish Lodge really needs a shake-up from you, Dervish. Look at how much life has been breathed into this place! Everyone is rushing to step up. Every two minutes, someone says: "We’re closing down, it's over." But don't you dare close it; it's clear people aren't ready for that. And I hope rowdyhawk10 takes care of things his way by bringing back HumanSide (is that how you say it?) and the others who felt slighted. Peace!

Brenda Cook4 said:Here we go, jumping around right here...

...letting that gold chain jingle...

this sounds exactly like some old country song chorus 😍

Jeffrey Fox84 said:...letting that gold chain jingle...

this sounds exactly like some old country song chorus 😍

😁...it reminds me of what the Swabians might say: "Here is the Rose, now dance," which was actually directed by Hegel toward the Rosicrucians—those folks who loved bragging about how their esoteric wisdom could reshape society... in the blink of an eye... so he gave them that little reality check...

Honestly, it’s like an Aesop's fable about a boastful athlete. You know the one? It goes *Hic Rhodus, hic salta*—"Here is Rhodes, now jump!" Basically, the guy kept bragging about his phenomenal leap, but he only ever did it on Rhodes. So they told him, "Alright, imagine this is Rhodes, then jump." I just used that popular Marx's version of the proverb...

There are a few key points regarding the issue at hand. First off, we respect the original poster's desire to close this thread. However, we also have to consider—and I think you all should too—that every sub-forum, every thread, and every single post is the property of the Muslim.com domain , where a team of about 50 professional moderators manages the discussions, while registered members participate voluntarily whenever they feel like it (or choose not to). Essentially, the forum operates on a voluntary basis.

Secondly, regarding us moderators and our policy for managing the Religion sub-forum—(this goes out to steeleagle2, northernrider9, and anyone else using this as an argument)—everyone is already aware of this thread, as well as others, it isn't the place to debate this. That discussion belongs in the Messages, Desires, Comments sub-forum. I say this as someone who has been on this forum for nearly ten years and understands how things work here. So, if anyone wants to start a discussion about the conduct of our moderation team, please feel free to do so over in that section. In fact, it’s actually encouraged; power without criticism eventually leads to unethical or even aggressive behavior. If we handle things peacefully through civil discourse, logic, and honest human conversation, everything can be resolved. Therefore, please head over to the PZK sub-forum! That entire section exists specifically for these matters, and because of that, we won't tolerate further critiques of moderator actions here, and such posts will be deleted moving forward.

Lastly, just generally for everyone... this thread will either be closed or remain open. Whether the starter's word should be final, or whether everyone who has carried this thread through the months and years—as well as the moderation team—should have a say, is now the real question. As you know, several very active members of the Dervish Lodge have already expressed their opposition to closing the topic. On the other hand, steeleagle2 essentially issued an ultimatum, coming out of nowhere... or rather, dropping a bombshell without any consultation with the moderators, notifying us that we would be expected to close the thread. So, once again, we find ourselves somewhat caught off guard by this little "revolution."

So, brother steeleagle2 and everyone else... we are currently weighing which solution is best, so please bear with us! We will make a decision very soon, perhaps even tonight or tomorrow. At the moment, I am leaning toward keeping the Dervish Lodge open (I'll explain my reasoning later), and posts starting from this one and everything related to it might be moved to this sub-forum, so that everything can be examined calmly and from multiple angles there.

To address a few individuals specifically... Gary Morales3, we seriously ask you not to escalate this crisis! We won't tolerate that. Gary Morales3, please, let's have some peace right now. northernrider9, please don't try to force a solution. As a member, he has stated his opinion three times (here, here, and here), which is more than enough. We won't tolerate further insistence, regardless of our good intentions. steeleagle2, please calm down and trust in our competence and good intentions. We want what is best and most useful. We thank boldgull19 for her selfless help and advice; we believe we will reach a decision she is happy with. Donna Cook48 has voiced her opinion, thank you, Donna Cook48. Thanks also to rapidmaker6, Flow, the guys, Justin Mitchell (a note to him: please refrain from lobbying for banned users; their case is now out of our hands and rests with the administration), as well as Jeffrey Fox84, Brenda Cook4, Rachel Sanders2... We expect to hear from other active participants of the Dervish Lodge as well. Peace Peace to all. 🙂

Brenda Cook4 said:😁...it reminds me of what the Swabians might say: "Here is the Rose, now dance," which was actually directed by Hegel toward the Rosicrucians—those folks who loved bragging about how their esoteric wisdom could reshape society... in the blink of an eye... so he gave them that little reality check...

Honestly, it’s like an Aesop's fable about a boastful athlete. You know the one? It goes *Hic Rhodus, hic salta*—"Here is Rhodes, now jump!" Basically, the guy kept bragging about his phenomenal leap, but he only ever did it on Rhodes. So they told him, "Alright, imagine this is Rhodes, then jump." I just used that popular Marx's version of the proverb...

Now I see you went back and edited that missing letter regarding the athlete's phenomenal object of boasting. I was sitting here thinking, what is going on with our lovely, sophisticated little blue bird? 🙂

Or maybe my eyes were just playing tricks on me regarding that athlete's jump. 🙂

It reminds me of that old joke about the goldfish and its wish for "pro-level tennis." 🙂

Oh, and by the way—better to jump first, then ask if you hit the ceiling. 🙂

@rowdyhawk10, hasn't it always been fine to just close the thread if the OP asked for it?

boldgull19 said:@rowdyhawk10, hasn't it always been fine to just close the thread if the OP asked for it?

Look, regardless of how much I annoy you—and yeah, I know I annoy rowdyhawk10 too, since I'm clearly calling out how things aren't working for him—nobody can tell me to stop posting. This whole thing needs to be shut down. The moderators should go mess with some other sub-forum instead of jerking people around while pretending everything is strictly "by the rules." I already warned rowdyhawk10 about this in a private message, and I'm telling everyone here right now: it's happening. Of course, he’ll probably just delete this, because how else is he going to explain a boycott to his bosses? He'll just blame us. Gary Morales3 is right, and boldgull19 is right—rowdyhawk10, you're just full of it, trying to act like you've got it all figured out. If God wills, you won't succeed in your low-down tactics, even if you try to wrap it up in a bow and call it "good intentions."

A little bit of Sufism wisdom... let's see if we can actually put it into practice... time to walk the talk:

Vilayat Khan says something along these lines: if you find yourself unable to conquer bitterness, realize it’s because you haven't yet grown into the magnitude of the discontent you've been entrusted with...

rowdyhawk10 said:There are a few key points regarding the issue at hand. First off, we respect the original poster's desire to close this thread. However, we also have to consider—and I think you all should too—that every sub-forum, every thread, and every single post is the property of the Muslim.com domain , where a team of about 50 professional moderators manages the discussions, while registered members participate voluntarily whenever they feel like it (or choose not to). Essentially, the forum operates on a voluntary basis.

Secondly, regarding us moderators and our policy for managing the Religion sub-forum—(this goes out to steeleagle2, northernrider9, and anyone else using this as an argument)—everyone is already aware of this thread, as well as others, it isn't the place to debate this. That discussion belongs in the Messages, Desires, Comments sub-forum. I say this as someone who has been on this forum for nearly ten years and understands how things work here. So, if anyone wants to start a discussion about the conduct of our moderation team, please feel free to do so over in that section. In fact, it’s actually encouraged; power without criticism eventually leads to unethical or even aggressive behavior. If we handle things peacefully through civil discourse, logic, and honest human conversation, everything can be resolved. Therefore, please head over to the PZK sub-forum! That entire section exists specifically for these matters, and because of that, we won't tolerate further critiques of moderator actions here, and such posts will be deleted moving forward.

Lastly, just generally for everyone... this thread will either be closed or remain open. Whether the starter's word should be final, or whether everyone who has carried this thread through the months and years—as well as the moderation team—should have a say, is now the real question. As you know, several very active members of the Dervish Lodge have already expressed their opposition to closing the topic. On the other hand, steeleagle2 essentially issued an ultimatum, coming out of nowhere... or rather, dropping a bombshell without any consultation with the moderators, notifying us that we would be expected to close the thread. So, once again, we find ourselves somewhat caught off guard by this little "revolution."

So, brother steeleagle2 and everyone else... we are currently weighing which solution is best, so please bear with us! We will make a decision very soon, perhaps even tonight or tomorrow. At the moment, I am leaning toward keeping the Dervish Lodge open (I'll explain my reasoning later), and posts starting from this one and everything related to it might be moved to this sub-forum, so that everything can be examined calmly and from multiple angles there.

To address a few individuals specifically... Gary Morales3, we seriously ask you not to escalate this crisis! We won't tolerate that. Gary Morales3, please, let's have some peace right now. northernrider9, please don't try to force a solution. As a member, he has stated his opinion three times (here, here, and here), which is more than enough. We won't tolerate further insistence, regardless of our good intentions. steeleagle2, please calm down and trust in our competence and good intentions. We want what is best and most useful. We thank boldgull19 for her selfless help and advice; we believe we will reach a decision she is happy with. Donna Cook48 has voiced her opinion, thank you, Donna Cook48. Thanks also to rapidmaker6, Flow, the guys, Justin Mitchell (a note to him: please refrain from lobbying for banned users; their case is now out of our hands and rests with the administration), as well as Jeffrey Fox84, Brenda Cook4, Rachel Sanders2... We expect to hear from other active participants of the Dervish Lodge as well. Peace Peace to all. 🙂

I’m calling out to every single Muslim in the world, to all of humanity, and even to all you spiritual leaders—please, for once, use some common sense—don't you dare shut this forum down. What on earth is rowdyhawk10 supposed to do if they pull the plug? Honestly, get that stench out the window immediately.

Peace be upon you

What exactly do people mean by "style"?
I've been keeping an eye on this—honestly, I follow this regularly—but can someone explain why some z
are calling for the Dervish Lodge to be shut down?

I always thought once the Dervish Lodge opens its doors, the keys are thrown away!
Peace, peace, peace... because nobody is to blame here...

boldgull19 said:@rowdyhawk10, hasn't it always been fine to just close the thread if the OP asked for it?

True, but that used to be a matter of principle. Back then, moderators closed threads as a way to show respect to the person who started them, especially since there wasn't actually a rule in the Forum guidelines allowing it. Nowadays, though, it’s all about calculation. That sense of honor has either vanished or become incredibly rare...