Request to merge "Tiki" thread into "Religion" PDF

Brian Mendoza95 said:Oh, I completely missed this message.
I am certainly willing to serve as the caretaker for the Dervish Lodge; I am not running away from such a duty. However, if this implies I must be present every single day, or every second, or every third day, I cannot commit, as I am uncertain how frequently I will actually be able to manage it... By the way, I am waiting for a new arrival in March or perhaps April.🙂

In any case, I am awaiting the official announcement and intend to consult with my legal representative; that is the proper etiquette, and that is how I shall proceed.

Besides, the final decision does not rest solely with me.
I accept that reality.
This Dervish Lodge is my very first one, and I would not give it up easily.

From what I know, etiquette means listening to the current Dervish Lodge's legal rep—this one right here—and we all know he started this whole thread.

@rowdyhawk10, I'm not looking for a fight... You could have just respected the thread starter's wishes and explained things to the admins, mods, or whoever else (if necessary) that you're a decent guy and you're doing this out of friendship (because he's a brother you care about). It’s not like the decision breaks any rules, and it wouldn't make you look like any less of a solid moderator to everyone else. Honestly? You'd look like a much bigger person. In real life (like at our jobs), people justify stuff like that all the time.
You can't know what's best for someone else (for instance, I personally think being a moderator might not be the best fit for you, so I'm leaving room to be wrong and prove myself wrong), nor can you justify it based on experience (years of it) or past events. Circumstances change. People change. I just hope the decision to keep things open wasn't made just because it's fun to debate stuff in the mod corner, or to stay in the spotlight, or to grab a little extra attention. If it was—well, that's just sad.

That argument about "what would the Forum look like if every thread starter demanded deletions whenever they got triggered"—it doesn't hold water. To me, it's stupid to even talk about... First off, find me one other case where that actually happened (usually, ego trips outweigh good intentions). But, let me remind you... remember Master Ivan's school when his students bailed and he had to shut the whole place down for a while out of pure embarrassment? And imagine, the moderators actually respected his request.

But... can anyone tell me, is it actually possible—or even wise or right—to use the Dervish Lodge as a way to settle someone else's petty squabbles? And is the Dervish Lodge really so weak and fragile that even the slightest breeze could knock it down?

Here’s the original post that opened the doors to the Dervish Lodge:

This is a sanctuary for celebrating God's love and the hope He has given us to eventually return to Him.
Whenever you feel lonely, sad, joyful, or elated; when you feel cast aside, when you've been lied to, or when it feels like the whole world is stacked against you—when you're just absolutely overwhelmed with worry...
Come here and try being sincere.
Ask questions; perhaps I will answer them.
The lost soul seeks, and it shall be found. Just keep seeking, and you won't leave this Dervish Lodge with a heavy heart.
Even those who struggle to believe in Divine love might find faith here.
Everyone has a right to hope. No one is denied it.
And you, who already love—come, so that we may increase your love.

...wasn't that an open invitation for connection and conversation? Is it really okay for someone to suddenly decide to slam the door in your face?

Besides, honestly, if everyone just kept opening up and then felt like shutting down topics whenever they pleased, what would be the point of any forum member even engaging? What for?

Brian Mendoza95, just ignore that first sentence meant for you.

Brenda Cook4 said:But... can anyone tell me, is it actually possible—or even wise or right—to use the Dervish Lodge as a way to settle someone else's petty squabbles? And is the Dervish Lodge really so weak and fragile that even the slightest breeze could knock it down?

Here’s the original post that opened the doors to the Dervish Lodge:

This is a sanctuary for celebrating God's love and the hope He has given us to eventually return to Him.
Whenever you feel lonely, sad, joyful, or elated; when you feel cast aside, when you've been lied to, or when it feels like the whole world is stacked against you—when you're just absolutely overwhelmed with worry...
Come here and try being sincere.
Ask questions; perhaps I will answer them.
The lost soul seeks, and it shall be found. Just keep seeking, and you won't leave this Dervish Lodge with a heavy heart.
Even those who struggle to believe in Divine love might find faith here.
Everyone has a right to hope. No one is denied it.
And you, who already love—come, so that we may increase your love.

...wasn't that an open invitation for connection and conversation? Is it really okay for someone to suddenly decide to slam the door in your face?

Besides, honestly, if everyone just kept opening up and then felt like shutting down topics whenever they pleased, what would be the point of any forum member even engaging? What for?

I'll answer part of that for you—here's how I see the current state of the Dervish Lodge.

To you, is "hanging out and talking" just trashing people who aren't present, using crude language unworthy of a human, let alone someone who considers themselves a believer? Is "talking and hanging out" just shouting over others and forcing your opinion on them just because *you* think you're right?

For me, that isn't conversation or community. That's why (among other things) I supported steeleagle2 in closing the thread. Believe me, Brenda Cook4, NOT ONE of the people writing like that would act that way on the street, much less in the Dervish Lodge, nor would they talk about others like that if they met them face to face.

So you decide: is THAT sincerity, or is there another word for it? I'm emphasizing this (for those who think I'm arguing for being just "sweet-talking") that everything said could be phrased differently—in a decent way, at least—without insulting anyone, while still staying true to the path they've chosen to follow.

edit: since Gorčin has the idea and the will (if he's allowed) to keep going, it's probably best to wait until he checks in.

Basically, here’s the deal... the folks in charge are trying to tell us indirectly right here on this forum: you don't actually have any rights here at all (it's always "your posts belong to us," blah blah, blah). Their excuse? Oh, it’s because they own the place... blah blah, because of this and that.
People have been posting on this forum thinking, "Oh, I've been here for years, I started so many threads, I really contributed to the community," and all that. Honestly? None of that matters. It doesn't mean a thing unless people actually step up—meaning, someone leads a movement to pull others along—to seriously challenge a moderator's or admin's position. So, my advice? Stop living in the illusion of having "freedom" on this site. There isn't any. You only have as much freedom as the authorities (the mods, the admins, etc.) decide to let you have. This isn't some "revolutionary" revelation; I'm just pulling back the curtains on this whole "free speech forum" facade. (To be fair, it hasn't always been this way here, but the power structure has shifted... the current setup has way too much ambition... they've got far too much blood in their eyes.)

boldgull19 said:I'll answer part of that for you—here's how I see the current state of the Dervish Lodge.

To you, is "hanging out and talking" just trashing people who aren't present, using crude language unworthy of a human, let alone someone who considers themselves a believer? Is "talking and hanging out" just shouting over others and forcing your opinion on them just because *you* think you're right?

For me, that isn't conversation or community. That's why (among other things) I supported steeleagle2 in closing the thread. Believe me, Brenda Cook4, NOT ONE of the people writing like that would act that way on the street, much less in the Dervish Lodge, nor would they talk about others like that if they met them face to face.

So you decide: is THAT sincerity, or is there another word for it? I'm emphasizing this (for those who think I'm arguing for being just "sweet-talking") that everything said could be phrased differently—in a decent way, at least—without insulting anyone, while still staying true to the path they've chosen to follow.

edit: since Gorčin has the idea and the will (if he's allowed) to keep going, it's probably best to wait until he checks in.

Look, I’m not exactly out here throwing around profanity, nor am I someone who goes around judging people's lives. Some of those words used were definitely heavy—manly, even, and honestly, a bit much. I get that. But couldn't the host have stepped in to handle it? We all know how moderators like to keep things orderly, even in private messages. Instead of just shutting it down, couldn't it have been addressed at the Dervish Lodge through a meaningful lesson or maybe just a calm conversation with the person acting out?

I can only imagine how rowdyhawk10 feels when reading some of those insults. I mean, I get it—he’s a moderator, so he has to step in; he’s just following the rules of the Forum. But honestly? If it were up to me, I’d never ban someone like Humanside. And since I see he’s currently reading through things and making decisions, I certainly wouldn't ban him either. Those two are basically the same person anyway... and I’m not trying to backtrack on what I said before, just doubling down. Losing them would be such a massive loss for this community. Look, I’m not saying you should turn this place into a "sweetheart club," but there's just too much fluff lately. A hundred times over, I’d much rather deal with blunt, direct, intelligent perspectives. What I really miss seeing at the Dervish Lodge is someone like a lame deer or Master Ivan—someone who actually makes my brain work, someone I can learn from, where real "battles" of wits take place. That's how you expand your universe. Please, just bring Humanside back.😁 In a word... look, I know that if he’s given the green light, everyone else will follow suit. Guess what? Maybe it isn't the most balanced way to handle things, but as the saying goes, what's allowed for the king isn't necessarily permitted for the commoner. A person's unique character, their intelligence, their depth of knowledge, and even their wit—those things should actually carry some weight. If we truly care about having a high-quality forum here, then we need substance. If all we wanted was a bunch of parrots just echoing the same thing over and over, there would be no point in coming to a forum at all.

What I can't stand is the theater of it all—the forced sentimentality, the constant drama, and that desperate urge to run away from reality. It’s just too much.🤷

Brenda Cook4 said:But... can anyone tell me, is it actually possible—or even wise or right—to use the Dervish Lodge as a way to settle someone else's petty squabbles? And is the Dervish Lodge really so weak and fragile that even the slightest breeze could knock it down?

Here’s the original post that opened the doors to the Dervish Lodge:

This is a sanctuary for celebrating God's love and the hope He has given us to eventually return to Him.
Whenever you feel lonely, sad, joyful, or elated; when you feel cast aside, when you've been lied to, or when it feels like the whole world is stacked against you—when you're just absolutely overwhelmed with worry...
Come here and try being sincere.
Ask questions; perhaps I will answer them.
The lost soul seeks, and it shall be found. Just keep seeking, and you won't leave this Dervish Lodge with a heavy heart.
Even those who struggle to believe in Divine love might find faith here.
Everyone has a right to hope. No one is denied it.
And you, who already love—come, so that we may increase your love.

...wasn't that an open invitation for connection and conversation? Is it really okay for someone to suddenly decide to slam the door in your face?

Besides, honestly, if everyone just kept opening up and then felt like shutting down topics whenever they pleased, what would be the point of any forum member even engaging? What for?

Blue, it wasn't a sudden whim on my part. The Dervish Lodge is different from any other topic on this forum. There is nothing else like it. It has to simultaneously adhere to the forum rules and general operations, while also remaining completely distinct and protected so it can actually function. How do you balance those two things, and why is it necessary?

The answer to that is quite complex. As the one who started it, I can only say that the current situation on this religious sub-section of the site is such that the "protection" of the Dervish Lodge has cracked, turning it into just another ordinary thread. Under these conditions, it cannot fulfill the promise made in the introductory post.

Why it must follow forum rules is obvious to everyone.
But why must it simultaneously be separate and protected, and how is that even possible?
I'll try to explain.

A real Dervish Lodge has its own physical space, which defines it and separates it from the outside world so it can function; in fact, a Dervish Lodge cannot exist as an institution without this. This is essential because the atmosphere required for its operation is created within those walls. Primarily, this involves physical cleanliness, followed by spiritual purity. Spiritual purity in a space is achieved through constant, directed prayer and rituals, and through the presence of spiritually pure individuals. This allows the Dervish Lodge to provide the "tools" necessary for spiritual education, the building and strengthening of individuals, or simply providing a sanctuary for souls in search. That is the basic, summarized essence of what the Dervish Lodge must provide.

Now, back to this virtual Dervish Lodge. For protection to work here, it isn't enough for moderators to be diligent and delete off-topic posts or spam. Something more is required. First, the individuals within it—those who feel they belong there, whether by merit or simple desire—must be spiritually pure and strong. Through that combination, they guard the walls of this virtual Dervish Lodge against outside intrusion. Now, when an intrusion happens, it's easy to delete it, but the goal is to cut the intrusion off at the root—to prevent it before it occurs. Because once it happens, it's already too late. It's too late because the intrusion introduces impurity that needs cleaning. Beyond just deleting a post, there is something that remains "hanging in the air." That lingering element needs cleansing, and moderators neither can nor have the tools to handle that. That task falls to those responsible for the Dervish Lodge. If a critical mass of impurity appears, it floods the Dervish Lodge, and individuals are no longer able to...
It’s about purification—as much as possible—and ensuring we ourselves are purified through the effort of cleaning it. A critical mass of spiritual impurity has been fostered by the atmosphere surrounding Religion.

We made a promise in our opening post, and that promise has to be real. When someone walks into our Dervish Lodge, they need to feel that we actually kept our word. No one should leave the lodge feeling heavy-hearted. There is no room for deception here; you simply cannot trick the human soul.
Perhaps you’re wondering if the problem lies within us, or if we just lack the strength? Look, an individual draws their spiritual strength from the community—they essentially fly on the wings of the group. Alone, they have no wings. They are lost and weak. The happenings over on the Religion forum, which rowdyhawk10 moderates, have visibly weakened our community, which automatically stripped away the strength of those of us responsible for the Dervish Lodge. In short, the moderators have gradually created an environment on the Religion forum that actively drains the vitality of our collective. This phenomenon is called turmoil. And we aren't the only ones suffering; all believers feel it, evidenced by the various complaints regarding the state of Religion coming from different denominations or individuals alike. Everyone can see something is wrong. Let me tell you exactly what it is:
Religion has become a place where disbelief and atheism are deliberately and systematically promoted, while faith—whatever its kind—is suppressed. This is done by serving a critical mass of immorality to believers, triggering a predictable reaction (usually some form of protest) that most often ends in sanctions. When this is done planned and systematic, the forum eventually gets purged of believers—at least those who can spot the insidious manipulations by the structure in charge of the Religion forum—leaving behind only those who are blind to these events or someone like me, who actually cares about fixing things.

rowdyhawk10 is quite the 'philosopher.' Just compare his posts toward me regarding the closing of the Dervish Lodge yesterday versus today. Anyone watching will notice the shift. Yesterday he was abrasive, cold, and quite threatening; today, he’s suddenly pleasant and seemingly eager for dialogue, change, and blah, blah, blah... I’d call that emotional instability, but let's move past that. Secondly, I want to point out that he doesn't actually stand behind or believe any of what he's proposing. It’s just a performance, his own little show. While less mood swinging would be nice, the core issue is that he just wants to find a way to preserve his position first, and then ensure the forum functions according to administration directives. Consequently, he’ll say anything to anyone just to hit those goals, regardless of whether his words are true or if he even believes them. It’s a farce with elements of a fiasco. Those who noticed this have either been banned or chose to leave the forum on their own.

That’s all for now.

Brenda Cook4 said:Look, I’m not exactly out here throwing around profanity, nor am I someone who goes around judging people's lives. Some of those words used were definitely heavy—manly, even, and honestly, a bit much. I get that. But couldn't the host have stepped in to handle it? We all know how moderators like to keep things orderly, even in private messages. Instead of just shutting it down, couldn't it have been addressed at the Dervish Lodge through a meaningful lesson or maybe just a calm conversation with the person acting out?

I can only imagine how rowdyhawk10 feels when reading some of those insults. I mean, I get it—he’s a moderator, so he has to step in; he’s just following the rules of the Forum. But honestly? If it were up to me, I’d never ban someone like Humanside. And since I see he’s currently reading through things and making decisions, I certainly wouldn't ban him either. Those two are basically the same person anyway... and I’m not trying to backtrack on what I said before, just doubling down. Losing them would be such a massive loss for this community. Look, I’m not saying you should turn this place into a "sweetheart club," but there's just too much fluff lately. A hundred times over, I’d much rather deal with blunt, direct, intelligent perspectives. What I really miss seeing at the Dervish Lodge is someone like a lame deer or Master Ivan—someone who actually makes my brain work, someone I can learn from, where real "battles" of wits take place. That's how you expand your universe. Please, just bring Humanside back.😁 In a word... look, I know that if he’s given the green light, everyone else will follow suit. Guess what? Maybe it isn't the most balanced way to handle things, but as the saying goes, what's allowed for the king isn't necessarily permitted for the commoner. A person's unique character, their intelligence, their depth of knowledge, and even their wit—those things should actually carry some weight. If we truly care about having a high-quality forum here, then we need substance. If all we wanted was a bunch of parrots just echoing the same thing over and over, there would be no point in coming to a forum at all.

What I can't stand is the theater of it all—the forced sentimentality, the constant drama, and that desperate urge to run away from reality. It’s just too much.🤷

I wasn't talking about HumanSide... he's his own case😁. He hasn't been posting at the Dervish Lodge lately for his own reasons anyway... and I wouldn't permaban him. Honestly, a permaban should be reserved for the extreme "cases" we used to see on the religion board... BUT, no matter what someone does to you, you can't justify behaving like that (specifically toward rowdyhawk10). Even though I barely agree with rowdyhawk10's stances, let alone his explanations.

Dervish was talking about that general vibe (the haze) at the Dervish Lodge and the whole religion PDF. Now that I've read what he wrote, I can stop explaining. He basically said everything that needed to be said.

There was nothing pathetic about this case, and the decision definitely wasn't made just to be contrary. Look, different people—different temperaments—will see this as pathetic, some as rebellion, and others... well, it was explained in detail in the post above....

boldgull19 said:From what I know, etiquette means listening to the current Dervish Lodge's legal rep—this one right here—and we all know he started this whole thread.

@rowdyhawk10, I'm not looking for a fight... You could have just respected the thread starter's wishes and explained things to the admins, mods, or whoever else (if necessary) that you're a decent guy and you're doing this out of friendship (because he's a brother you care about). It’s not like the decision breaks any rules, and it wouldn't make you look like any less of a solid moderator to everyone else. Honestly? You'd look like a much bigger person. In real life (like at our jobs), people justify stuff like that all the time.
You can't know what's best for someone else (for instance, I personally think being a moderator might not be the best fit for you, so I'm leaving room to be wrong and prove myself wrong), nor can you justify it based on experience (years of it) or past events. Circumstances change. People change. I just hope the decision to keep things open wasn't made just because it's fun to debate stuff in the mod corner, or to stay in the spotlight, or to grab a little extra attention. If it was—well, that's just sad.

That argument about "what would the Forum look like if every thread starter demanded deletions whenever they got triggered"—it doesn't hold water. To me, it's stupid to even talk about... First off, find me one other case where that actually happened (usually, ego trips outweigh good intentions). But, let me remind you... remember Master Ivan's school when his students bailed and he had to shut the whole place down for a while out of pure embarrassment? And imagine, the moderators actually respected his request.

And why would I come across as less of a human, boldgull19? I don't think that's quite the case; I suppose I might just end up appearing more like a child. 🙂 Here is Brenda Cook4. Hey. I provided a solid reason for why closing the Dervish Lodge would be a mistake, and I find myself agreeing with her on that point. As a moderator, I carry a certain level of responsibility—something people here tend to overlook quite easily, though I suppose that's just how things go. In my role, I aim to pass judgment on any issue based strictly on my own conscience. It was steeleagle2’s place to make a suggestion—whether his specific approach was right or wrong is a separate matter entirely. My responsibility, however, was to consult with various forum members and my fellow moderators (there is actually a thread regarding this in the moderator section) so that after hearing different perspectives, I could arrive at what I believe is the most correct or optimal solution. The fact that steeleagle2 lacks confidence in my competence—perhaps because I am a "philosopher" rather than someone who acts purely on impulse—is honestly irrelevant here. I am a moderator with all the authority that entails. My decisions can always be criticized; in fact, I often argue that such criticism is necessary. There is always something to be critiqued, I suppose.

I suppose the Dervish Lodge doesn't have to serve as a training ground for hypocrites.

boldgull19 said:From what I know, etiquette means listening to the current Dervish Lodge's legal rep—this one right here—and we all know he started this whole thread.

@rowdyhawk10, I'm not looking for a fight... You could have just respected the thread starter's wishes and explained things to the admins, mods, or whoever else (if necessary) that you're a decent guy and you're doing this out of friendship (because he's a brother you care about). It’s not like the decision breaks any rules, and it wouldn't make you look like any less of a solid moderator to everyone else. Honestly? You'd look like a much bigger person. In real life (like at our jobs), people justify stuff like that all the time.
You can't know what's best for someone else (for instance, I personally think being a moderator might not be the best fit for you, so I'm leaving room to be wrong and prove myself wrong), nor can you justify it based on experience (years of it) or past events. Circumstances change. People change. I just hope the decision to keep things open wasn't made just because it's fun to debate stuff in the mod corner, or to stay in the spotlight, or to grab a little extra attention. If it was—well, that's just sad.

That argument about "what would the Forum look like if every thread starter demanded deletions whenever they got triggered"—it doesn't hold water. To me, it's stupid to even talk about... First off, find me one other case where that actually happened (usually, ego trips outweigh good intentions). But, let me remind you... remember Master Ivan's school when his students bailed and he had to shut the whole place down for a while out of pure embarrassment? And imagine, the moderators actually respected his request.

I know quite well that being a moderator isn't the best path for me. Certain situations just end up tearing me apart, and I suppose it takes a significant toll on my family as well. There is also the constant risk of losing friends along the way. Still, maybe there is some merit in staying guarded when you possess the kind of knowledge I hold. I guess everything has its purpose.

boldgull19 said:From what I know, etiquette means listening to the current Dervish Lodge's legal rep—this one right here—and we all know he started this whole thread.

@rowdyhawk10, I'm not looking for a fight... You could have just respected the thread starter's wishes and explained things to the admins, mods, or whoever else (if necessary) that you're a decent guy and you're doing this out of friendship (because he's a brother you care about). It’s not like the decision breaks any rules, and it wouldn't make you look like any less of a solid moderator to everyone else. Honestly? You'd look like a much bigger person. In real life (like at our jobs), people justify stuff like that all the time.
You can't know what's best for someone else (for instance, I personally think being a moderator might not be the best fit for you, so I'm leaving room to be wrong and prove myself wrong), nor can you justify it based on experience (years of it) or past events. Circumstances change. People change. I just hope the decision to keep things open wasn't made just because it's fun to debate stuff in the mod corner, or to stay in the spotlight, or to grab a little extra attention. If it was—well, that's just sad.

That argument about "what would the Forum look like if every thread starter demanded deletions whenever they got triggered"—it doesn't hold water. To me, it's stupid to even talk about... First off, find me one other case where that actually happened (usually, ego trips outweigh good intentions). But, let me remind you... remember Master Ivan's school when his students bailed and he had to shut the whole place down for a while out of pure embarrassment? And imagine, the moderators actually respected his request.

That isn't quite right. To be honest, I just don't care for the way this shutdown was proposed. It’s fine if the Dervish feels bad about the banned Humaninside; it's fine if he realizes certain discussions were pointless and disrupted the spirit of the Dervish Lodge (like those involving Gary Morales3 or the others...). But the manner in which this was handled is absolutely not okay. And I suppose the Dervish knows that. That’s why I decided on this approach—whoever is tired should take a rest, and perhaps they'll return to us later. There will always be someone to look after the Dervish Lodge.

boldgull19 said:From what I know, etiquette means listening to the current Dervish Lodge's legal rep—this one right here—and we all know he started this whole thread.

@rowdyhawk10, I'm not looking for a fight... You could have just respected the thread starter's wishes and explained things to the admins, mods, or whoever else (if necessary) that you're a decent guy and you're doing this out of friendship (because he's a brother you care about). It’s not like the decision breaks any rules, and it wouldn't make you look like any less of a solid moderator to everyone else. Honestly? You'd look like a much bigger person. In real life (like at our jobs), people justify stuff like that all the time.
You can't know what's best for someone else (for instance, I personally think being a moderator might not be the best fit for you, so I'm leaving room to be wrong and prove myself wrong), nor can you justify it based on experience (years of it) or past events. Circumstances change. People change. I just hope the decision to keep things open wasn't made just because it's fun to debate stuff in the mod corner, or to stay in the spotlight, or to grab a little extra attention. If it was—well, that's just sad.

That argument about "what would the Forum look like if every thread starter demanded deletions whenever they got triggered"—it doesn't hold water. To me, it's stupid to even talk about... First off, find me one other case where that actually happened (usually, ego trips outweigh good intentions). But, let me remind you... remember Master Ivan's school when his students bailed and he had to shut the whole place down for a while out of pure embarrassment? And imagine, the moderators actually respected his request.

But the Dervish Lodge can't be compared to that. We've had plenty of instances where someone asks a question, gets a satisfactory answer, and then requests the thread be closed because they have enough info. But that isn't what's happening here. This Lodge is a valuable thread, and many valuable people are against closing it, so that is how it shall remain for now. Perhaps you all could step up a bit yourselves and help maintain the spirit of the Dervish Lodge by addressing issues promptly. Peace

I already regretted posting that. Fine, here’s your Dervish Lodge, now go write and enjoy yourself.

rowdyhawk10

That’s just not true. Quite simply, the way the closure was proposed doesn't sit right with me. It’s fine if the Dervish feels bad about the banned Humaninside, and it's fine if he sees that certain discussions were pointless and disturbed the spirit of the Dervish Lodge (like those involving Asad or the Bank..). But it is absolutely NOT okay how this was handled. And the Dervish knows that. That's why I decided it this way—whoever is tired should take a break, and hopefully, they'll return to us later. Someone will always be here to watch over the Dervish Lodge.

It’s obvious to everyone that you all became a harsh regime long ago, instead of acting as a service for the citizens. I say "you" because I told myself that you had discussions in the moderator corner where you consulted with your colleagues. You just proved it right now; though we all knew it before, now it’s official and argued, because you claim you don't like the way I requested the closure. The method used was, and remains, within the rules of the forum.
Another vital point is that after some people failed to grasp the summary, I explained the reasons for the closure request at length. I also detailed why the Dervish Lodge cannot function if these reasons are ignored—because then it automatically turns into something else entirely, a completely different topic that has nothing to do with the original except for its name.
You ignored my explanation, ignored those reasons, and decided the Dervish Lodge should stay open because someone will always be here to watch over the Dervish Lodge. If we take that as an argument, it is, at the very least, condescending toward my thorough and precise explanation. But that doesn't surprise me; if you were capable of providing quality counterarguments regarding the actual principles this virtual Dervish Lodge operates on, you would be able to start and lead such a thread yourself. Yet, despite showing that you can't, you take it upon yourself to lead it and steer it in whatever direction the administration wants.
To summarize: what you have done here is nothing more than one-sided thinking, acting as a mouthpiece for the forum administration. I hear people complaining about similar occurrences in other sub-forums too, but whatever, that's not what this is about.

So, there we have it. Now we see exactly how the moderators model and direct the "free" flow of thoughts and ideas.

Since this is a very sophisticated issue, let me provide an analogy. Suppose a creationist starts a thread explaining the origin of the world, and then an evolutionist takes over that thread, continuing to talk about the origin of the world while using a creationist handle and title, all while suppressing and preventing any participation from creationists in the thread. Purely one-sided.

Or a second example: a dentist goes to an auto mechanic to get a timing belt changed. After the mechanic disassembles the engine and removes the belt, the dentist looks at it and says, "You just need to replace a couple of teeth, don't touch anything else..."😲

I should also clarify one thing: if none of what I’ve said above manages to rattle "His Excellency" and the administration, and they decide to keep the Dervish Lodge open, let it be known that the Dervish no longer has any connection to the lodge. He bears zero responsibility for its current state, nor for the direction in which it will "evolve."

Indeed, we are just waiting to hear from Brian Mendoza95 to see if he intends to step up and take responsibility. If he does, he takes over all the authority I have held until now. Granted, we've seen that those powers weren't particularly significant, but regardless, let the record show.

One more thing. There is also the dimension of God's direct intervention and His influence over all of this, but it would be excessive to attempt an explanation of that sphere, considering most people can barely wrap their heads around this ordinary, logical, human dimension as it is.

steeleagle2;23284406] Blue, it’s not just that I "got hooked" out of nowhere. The Dervish Lodge section is unlike any other topic on this entire Forum. There is absolutely nothing else like it. It has to walk this fine line where it follows all the standard site rules and general Forum operations, yet at the exact same time, it needs to be completely set apart—protected, really—to actually work. How do you balance those two things? And more importantly, why is it absolutely necessary to do it that way?

I'm not saying you're just "horny" or whatever... I mean, what's happening here is something else entirely. It’s deeper than that.

She followed the rules of the Forum and played by the book. So, my question now is: who exactly do you think was attacking her? Was anything actually done about it? What steps did you personally take? And what specific actions were you asking the mods to take?

The answer to this question is incredibly complex. Speaking as the one who set this whole thing in motion, I can only tell you that the current state of modern religion is such that the protection surrounding the Dervish Lodge has effectively shattered. It’s become just another topic of casual conversation. Under these specific circumstances, there is simply no way for it to fulfill the promise made in the opening post.

Alright, this really calls for an answer to the question I posed earlier. So, who exactly turned the Dervish Lodge into just another "ordinary thread"? And more importantly, were people’s concerns ignored when they spoke up about drifting away from the topic and losing the whole purpose of what this virtual Dervish Lodge is meant to be?

It’s pretty obvious to everyone why following the forum rules is so essential. It just makes sense.
How can something be kept completely separate yet remain fully protected at the same time? It sounds like a total contradiction, doesn't it? Like trying to hold water in your hands without letting a single drop escape. But when you really dig into it, that balance is everything. It’s about creating a boundary that doesn't act as a wall, but rather as a sanctuary. You need that space to keep the core essence pure, but you also need a shield to ensure that what's inside stays safe from the outside world. Finding that sweet spot—where isolation meets security—is the real challenge.
I’ll give it my best shot.

An actual Dervish Lodge needs its own dedicated space—a physical sanctuary that sets it apart from the chaos of the outside world. Without that boundary, it just can't function properly; a Dervish Lodge simply cannot exist as an institution without it. It’s essential because once you step inside those walls, you create a specific atmosphere necessary for everything to work. First and foremost, we're talking about purity—starting with the physical environment and then moving deep into the spiritual. Spiritual purity within a space isn't something that just happens by accident. It’s built through constant, humble prayer and dedicated rituals. You also need the presence of spiritually grounded people to make it work. Only then can a Dervish Lodge truly provide the "tools" necessary for spiritual education—helping to shape and build up individuals, or simply serving as a sanctuary for souls searching for a place to rest. That’s essentially the core, condensed set of requirements a Dervish Lodge needs to meet.

Once again, who exactly went and "polluted" the space with their "spiritual filth"?
And please, if you could, give me a definitive explanation of "spiritual purity." It seems absolutely necessary, especially since you're suggesting that this is exactly where all the issues start to surface.

S

Let’s get back to the reality of this virtual Dervish Lodge. If we want actual protection here, it isn't enough for moderators to just stay on top of things by deleting off-topic chatter or spam. We need something deeper than that. First off, the people who call this place home—those who feel they truly belong here, whether through merit or simple desire—need to be spiritually grounded and resilient. It’s that combination of individual strength and purity that actually keeps the walls of this virtual Dervish Lodge standing against outside interference. Now, look, when an intrusion happens, it’s easy enough to delete the offending content. But the real goal should be to nip it in the bud—to stop the intrusion before it even starts. Once it hits, it’s already too late. Why? Because once someone breaks in, they leave behind a kind of spiritual impurity. Even after you delete a post, there’s still a lingering "vibe" or a sense of tension hanging in the air. That’s the part that needs cleaning, and frankly, moderators don't have the tools—nor should they have the authority—to deal with that. That responsibility falls on the people truly dedicated to the Dervish Lodge itself. If a critical mass of that impurity takes hold, it will flood the entire community, and individuals simply won't be able to...
It’s all about the cleansing process—the more they strive to purify things, the more they end up purifying themselves in the process. But let's face it, that massive wave of spiritual impurity we're seeing? That was created by the very atmosphere surrounding religion itself.

So, looking at how things were handled—deleting those off-topic posts, all that spam, and the insults—it was definitely the right call. It shows the mods were actually stepping up and doing their jobs.

So, is the whole issue really about the people who were at the Dervish Lodge? Are we seeing this "spiritually pure" label popping up again, along with this new idea of "outside interference"? I'm curious—as the one who opened the doors and kept watch, how did you actually handle that?
Was there anyone else who was supposed to step up?

We made a promise right from our very first post. And that’s a promise we have to live up to. When someone walks through the doors of our Dervish Lodge, they need to feel—truly feel—that we kept our word. No one should ever walk away from us feeling heavy-hearted or disappointed. There is no room for deception here. You simply can't cheat the human soul.

It would be such a refreshing change—and honestly, just plain normal—if people actually meant what they said. If our thoughts truly aligned with our words, and more importantly, if our actions actually followed through on those promises.

Maybe you’re sitting there wondering if the problem lies within us—if we’ve just lost our grit? Look, here’s the reality: an individual draws their spiritual strength from the community. Think of it like this: a single bird doesn't fly on its own power; it soars on the wings of the flock. Without that collective lift, a person is just lost and weak. The recent turn of events over on the Religion forum, which rowdyhawk10 moderates, has visibly drained the strength of our community. And because that foundation is crumbling, it has automatically stripped away the strength from those of us tasked with maintaining the Dervish Lodge. Essentially, the moderators have fostered an atmosphere on the Religion forum that actively weakens our group's core. In social terms, you could call it "turmoil." And we aren't the only ones feeling the burn. This affects all believers. You can see the proof in the endless stream of complaints coming from various denominations and individuals alike regarding the state of the Religion forum. Everyone can sense that something is fundamentally broken. So, I’ll tell you exactly what’s going wrong. Let me repeat:
Religion has turned into this place where disbelief and atheism are being pushed, both subtly and intentionally, all while trying to stifle any kind of actual faith—no matter what that looks like. It’s all part of a calculated strategy: they serve up a critical mass of immorality just to trigger a predictable reaction from the faithful—usually some kind of protest—which then inevitably leads to them being sanctioned. When this is done systematically and by design, the end goal is clear. Over time, the community gets purged of believers, specifically those who can actually spot the treacherous provocations planted by the powers that be in charge of the PDF-religion structure. What's left behind are the believers who are blind to these maneuvers, or perhaps someone like me, who actually gives a damn about making things right again.

That’s exactly it. Honestly, I think the issue lies within us... within all of us.
I don't want to get sidetracked right now by diving into the whole debate over what true spiritual strength actually looks like or how one even begins to find it. Sure, having support is great—it really is—but at the end of the day, a person has to fight their own battles alone. If you rely solely on the group, you just end up with that herd mentality where only the "strongest" survive. But hey, that’s a whole different conversation for another time.

So, we’re really going to blame atheists and non-believers for the current situation? Let's look at this logically. When we talk about the Dervish Lodge, tell me—what exactly have atheists done to it? Where or when did they ever serve up some "critical mass of immorality" or throw out provocations just to bait believers into reacting so they could be sanctioned or, essentially, stripped of their right to practice their faith? It just doesn't add up.

I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately. As an atheist, I found myself participating in a Dervish Lodge gathering, and honestly, I don't even know anyone else who has done that—at least not consistently over any long period. It leaves me wondering: what was I actually doing there?

rowdyhawk10 calls himself a "philosopher." Just take a look at his posts compared to mine—especially regarding this whole situation with closing down the Dervish Lodge—from yesterday through today. Anyone paying attention will notice the shift.Yesterday was awkward, cold, and honestly felt pretty threatening. Then, suddenly, today he shows up acting all pleasant and perfectly poised for dialogue and change and blah, blah, blah... I’d call that emotional instability, but let’s not get bogged down in that. There is something else I need to point out: none of this stuff he’s proposing is actually backed by his own convictions. He doesn't truly believe what he's saying. It’s nothing more than a performance—his own little personal show. Moving past the mood swings, though, here is the real kicker: he’s just looking for a way to protect his position and ensure this Forum keeps running exactly how the administration wants it to. Because of that, he’ll say absolutely anything to anyone just to hit those targets. It doesn't even matter to him whether what he’s saying is the Truth or if he actually stands behind his words. It’s a complete farce, bordering on a total fiasco. And the people who actually noticed the act? They either got banned or they just walked away from the Forum entirely.

Let me give it to you straight, just being honest here. I haven't noticed any real shift in how rowdyhawk10 acts—he’s the same guy today as he was yesterday. But you know what I *did* catch? Looking at your last post (#72), where you bold things in those two spots... honestly, if I hadn't spotted your username, I would have thought northernrider9 was the one typing. That’s his specific style, and now I’m seeing it in yours too. That’s the little detail I picked up on.

One more thing, did you ask the Human not to show up at the Dervish Lodge, or am I just getting my wires crossed?

And finally, what kind of actual impact did those banned users have on the "vibe" or the overall "situation" at the Dervish Lodge? Is rowdyhawk10 solely to blame for everything? Or is it the atheists?

That’s exactly it. I think the issue lies within us... within ourselves.
I won't get sidetracked right now by the whole debate over what constitutes true spiritual strength and how one actually attains it. Sure, having support is great, but at the end of the day, a person has to fight their own battles alone. Otherwise, you just end up with a herd mentality where only the "strongest" survive. But anyway, that’s a conversation for another time.

So, we're blaming atheists and non-believers for the current state of things? Let's look at the Dervish Lodge specifically. Tell me, what exactly have atheists done to the Dervish Lodge? Where and when did they provide this "critical mass of immorality"—these supposed provocations—that would trigger a reaction from believers, leading to them being sanctioned or, essentially, stripped of their ability to practice their faith?

As an atheist, I’ve been reflecting on my participation in a Dervish Lodge gathering. It feels a bit out of place since I don't know anyone else who has taken part in one for any significant amount of time. I find myself wondering: what exactly was I doing there?

I expected a bit more precision from you, but whatever.

I never explicitly labeled atheists as participants in any spontaneous or organized actions. My point was simply that the moderators steer the direction of the discussions by favoring atheism and "pushing" it—which has nothing to do with them personally, nor does it have anything to do with you. Therefore, everything you've pointed out misses the mark. Please read my posts more carefully.

Once again, who exactly "polluted" the space with their "spiritual filth"?
Please, if you could, define "spiritual purity" for me. It seems absolutely necessary, especially since you're suggesting that problems are starting to arise here because of it.

It wouldn't be right to point fingers, but just to clear the air—it wasn't you.😍 Honestly, it could be anyone—even a brother who sits right beside us in the Dervish Lodge. Purity isn't a static thing; states of cleanliness fluctuate. Someone might be completely centered today, only to lose that footing tomorrow. My job is to nip these disruptions in the bud. I try to redirect them by pivoting to a different topic before they even settle in. It’s a preventative measure. If someone enters the Dervish Lodge in a bad state, it creates a mess. Sure, the moderators eventually clean it up, but the bitter aftertaste lingers. After a while, that bitterness starts to define the entire Forum. We all end up tasting it. Eventually, we get so used to that bitter flavor that when someone tries to offer us something sweet, like strawberries with whipped cream, our first instinct is to cough. That’s why you need a buffer zone to ease the reaction. You start with something simple, like a bit of bread and white garlic, then move slowly toward dairy, and only then do you introduce the sweets.

Is the "spiritually pure" category popping up again, along with this new "outside interference" section?

External interference is essentially an excess triggered by individuals—and I’m being precise here, it could be anyone—occasionally because they fail to pass through the buffer zone, and partly due to their inherent nature.

One more thing I wanted to ask—did you actually request that the human stay away from the Dervish Lodge, or did I just get my wires crossed?

And finally, what exactly was the contribution of those banned users to the "vibe" or the overall atmosphere within the Dervish Lodge? Is everything really just Shady's fault? Or should we be pointing the finger at the atheists instead?

The human in question doesn't actually have anything to do with this, other than serving as my case study to illustrate two specific points. I’ve already laid them out, but I suppose I should start getting used to your lack of precision😛.

Essentially, this human is a textbook example of what happens when a creative yet highly temperamental individual is pushed toward pure destruction by moderator politics, rather than being given an environment where they can actually let their talent shine. It is a failure of moderation, par excellence. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the human; he isn't even five years old, he's got food, a place to sleep, and he's warm enough😍

The moderators have done such a stellar job with the deleting and banning, they might actually qualify for the Olympics.🤣

steeleagle2 said:Blue, it wasn't a sudden whim on my part. The Dervish Lodge is different from any other topic on this forum. There is nothing else like it. It has to simultaneously adhere to the forum rules and general operations, while also remaining completely distinct and protected so it can actually function. How do you balance those two things, and why is it necessary?

The answer to that is quite complex. As the one who started it, I can only say that the current situation on this religious sub-section of the site is such that the "protection" of the Dervish Lodge has cracked, turning it into just another ordinary thread. Under these conditions, it cannot fulfill the promise made in the introductory post.

Why it must follow forum rules is obvious to everyone.
But why must it simultaneously be separate and protected, and how is that even possible?
I'll try to explain.

A real Dervish Lodge has its own physical space, which defines it and separates it from the outside world so it can function; in fact, a Dervish Lodge cannot exist as an institution without this. This is essential because the atmosphere required for its operation is created within those walls. Primarily, this involves physical cleanliness, followed by spiritual purity. Spiritual purity in a space is achieved through constant, directed prayer and rituals, and through the presence of spiritually pure individuals. This allows the Dervish Lodge to provide the "tools" necessary for spiritual education, the building and strengthening of individuals, or simply providing a sanctuary for souls in search. That is the basic, summarized essence of what the Dervish Lodge must provide.

Now, back to this virtual Dervish Lodge. For protection to work here, it isn't enough for moderators to be diligent and delete off-topic posts or spam. Something more is required. First, the individuals within it—those who feel they belong there, whether by merit or simple desire—must be spiritually pure and strong. Through that combination, they guard the walls of this virtual Dervish Lodge against outside intrusion. Now, when an intrusion happens, it's easy to delete it, but the goal is to cut the intrusion off at the root—to prevent it before it occurs. Because once it happens, it's already too late. It's too late because the intrusion introduces impurity that needs cleaning. Beyond just deleting a post, there is something that remains "hanging in the air." That lingering element needs cleansing, and moderators neither can nor have the tools to handle that. That task falls to those responsible for the Dervish Lodge. If a critical mass of impurity appears, it floods the Dervish Lodge, and individuals are no longer able to...
It’s about purification—as much as possible—and ensuring we ourselves are purified through the effort of cleaning it. A critical mass of spiritual impurity has been fostered by the atmosphere surrounding Religion.

We made a promise in our opening post, and that promise has to be real. When someone walks into our Dervish Lodge, they need to feel that we actually kept our word. No one should leave the lodge feeling heavy-hearted. There is no room for deception here; you simply cannot trick the human soul.
Perhaps you’re wondering if the problem lies within us, or if we just lack the strength? Look, an individual draws their spiritual strength from the community—they essentially fly on the wings of the group. Alone, they have no wings. They are lost and weak. The happenings over on the Religion forum, which rowdyhawk10 moderates, have visibly weakened our community, which automatically stripped away the strength of those of us responsible for the Dervish Lodge. In short, the moderators have gradually created an environment on the Religion forum that actively drains the vitality of our collective. This phenomenon is called turmoil. And we aren't the only ones suffering; all believers feel it, evidenced by the various complaints regarding the state of Religion coming from different denominations or individuals alike. Everyone can see something is wrong. Let me tell you exactly what it is:
Religion has become a place where disbelief and atheism are deliberately and systematically promoted, while faith—whatever its kind—is suppressed. This is done by serving a critical mass of immorality to believers, triggering a predictable reaction (usually some form of protest) that most often ends in sanctions. When this is done planned and systematic, the forum eventually gets purged of believers—at least those who can spot the insidious manipulations by the structure in charge of the Religion forum—leaving behind only those who are blind to these events or someone like me, who actually cares about fixing things.

rowdyhawk10 is quite the 'philosopher.' Just compare his posts toward me regarding the closing of the Dervish Lodge yesterday versus today. Anyone watching will notice the shift. Yesterday he was abrasive, cold, and quite threatening; today, he’s suddenly pleasant and seemingly eager for dialogue, change, and blah, blah, blah... I’d call that emotional instability, but let's move past that. Secondly, I want to point out that he doesn't actually stand behind or believe any of what he's proposing. It’s just a performance, his own little show. While less mood swinging would be nice, the core issue is that he just wants to find a way to preserve his position first, and then ensure the forum functions according to administration directives. Consequently, he’ll say anything to anyone just to hit those goals, regardless of whether his words are true or if he even believes them. It’s a farce with elements of a fiasco. Those who noticed this have either been banned or chose to leave the forum on their own.

That’s all for now.

Could you perhaps provide an example—mentioning the specific username and the circumstances—of someone who was unfairly penalized simply because they chose to protest in a respectful manner?

Religious people constantly try to impose their own set of rules on us, all in an attempt to gain some kind of unfair advantage over atheists. It seems like they’re always reporting even the most trivial posts, such as... The insulting of Christian religious sentiments., The insult directed at Muslim religious feelings.And here we are, trying to explain it to them that... The Religion forum isn't exactly a sanctuary for believers! This is essentially a space for anyone who holds their own views on religion—even those that might be negative. To be clear, the "Religion" sub-forum isn't meant to be... Believers Religious people might consider... mineIf we went that route, atheists would basically be unwelcome on the forum. steeleagle2, the alternative would imply that the administration is playing favorites by favoring religious people while discriminating against those who aren't. I don't think anyone in admin actually wants that, nor is it even a possibility. That kind of thing only happens on those single-issue forums. Muslim.com, www.catholics.org, www.buddhism.com Our position remains clear: every human being has an equal right to be heard, so let the arguments speak for themselves. We only step in to sanction those who are being disrespectful or those who try to force their views on everyone else as if they were some kind of absolute truth. default This serves as both a response to and... this one Regarding your post: there aren't any privileged users on this forum. There are no sacred cows here. And frankly, steeleagle2, that’s a good thing. I actually accepted a moderation role because I saw that the position of equality was the ideal way to handle things. As an American, I suspect there isn't a more perfect standard than that. I suppose anyone who truly understands the clear distinction between truth and delusion shouldn't feel any fear about stepping into that kind of conflict. 🙂

I'm not quite sure which users you're referring to when you mention those who have been "sanctioned for protesting." If you have someone specific in mind, please provide a username and the context of the situation. Generally speaking, we tend to implement sanctions when protests take a sycophantic tone. However, I only consider stricter disciplinary measures once individuals lose all sense of proportion and resort to those petty, ad hominem tactics. It seems that, unfortunately, there isn't much other way to handle them besides taking a hard line. 🤷

steeleagle2 said:Blue, it wasn't a sudden whim on my part. The Dervish Lodge is different from any other topic on this forum. There is nothing else like it. It has to simultaneously adhere to the forum rules and general operations, while also remaining completely distinct and protected so it can actually function. How do you balance those two things, and why is it necessary?

The answer to that is quite complex. As the one who started it, I can only say that the current situation on this religious sub-section of the site is such that the "protection" of the Dervish Lodge has cracked, turning it into just another ordinary thread. Under these conditions, it cannot fulfill the promise made in the introductory post.

Why it must follow forum rules is obvious to everyone.
But why must it simultaneously be separate and protected, and how is that even possible?
I'll try to explain.

A real Dervish Lodge has its own physical space, which defines it and separates it from the outside world so it can function; in fact, a Dervish Lodge cannot exist as an institution without this. This is essential because the atmosphere required for its operation is created within those walls. Primarily, this involves physical cleanliness, followed by spiritual purity. Spiritual purity in a space is achieved through constant, directed prayer and rituals, and through the presence of spiritually pure individuals. This allows the Dervish Lodge to provide the "tools" necessary for spiritual education, the building and strengthening of individuals, or simply providing a sanctuary for souls in search. That is the basic, summarized essence of what the Dervish Lodge must provide.

Now, back to this virtual Dervish Lodge. For protection to work here, it isn't enough for moderators to be diligent and delete off-topic posts or spam. Something more is required. First, the individuals within it—those who feel they belong there, whether by merit or simple desire—must be spiritually pure and strong. Through that combination, they guard the walls of this virtual Dervish Lodge against outside intrusion. Now, when an intrusion happens, it's easy to delete it, but the goal is to cut the intrusion off at the root—to prevent it before it occurs. Because once it happens, it's already too late. It's too late because the intrusion introduces impurity that needs cleaning. Beyond just deleting a post, there is something that remains "hanging in the air." That lingering element needs cleansing, and moderators neither can nor have the tools to handle that. That task falls to those responsible for the Dervish Lodge. If a critical mass of impurity appears, it floods the Dervish Lodge, and individuals are no longer able to...
It’s about purification—as much as possible—and ensuring we ourselves are purified through the effort of cleaning it. A critical mass of spiritual impurity has been fostered by the atmosphere surrounding Religion.

We made a promise in our opening post, and that promise has to be real. When someone walks into our Dervish Lodge, they need to feel that we actually kept our word. No one should leave the lodge feeling heavy-hearted. There is no room for deception here; you simply cannot trick the human soul.
Perhaps you’re wondering if the problem lies within us, or if we just lack the strength? Look, an individual draws their spiritual strength from the community—they essentially fly on the wings of the group. Alone, they have no wings. They are lost and weak. The happenings over on the Religion forum, which rowdyhawk10 moderates, have visibly weakened our community, which automatically stripped away the strength of those of us responsible for the Dervish Lodge. In short, the moderators have gradually created an environment on the Religion forum that actively drains the vitality of our collective. This phenomenon is called turmoil. And we aren't the only ones suffering; all believers feel it, evidenced by the various complaints regarding the state of Religion coming from different denominations or individuals alike. Everyone can see something is wrong. Let me tell you exactly what it is:
Religion has become a place where disbelief and atheism are deliberately and systematically promoted, while faith—whatever its kind—is suppressed. This is done by serving a critical mass of immorality to believers, triggering a predictable reaction (usually some form of protest) that most often ends in sanctions. When this is done planned and systematic, the forum eventually gets purged of believers—at least those who can spot the insidious manipulations by the structure in charge of the Religion forum—leaving behind only those who are blind to these events or someone like me, who actually cares about fixing things.

rowdyhawk10 is quite the 'philosopher.' Just compare his posts toward me regarding the closing of the Dervish Lodge yesterday versus today. Anyone watching will notice the shift. Yesterday he was abrasive, cold, and quite threatening; today, he’s suddenly pleasant and seemingly eager for dialogue, change, and blah, blah, blah... I’d call that emotional instability, but let's move past that. Secondly, I want to point out that he doesn't actually stand behind or believe any of what he's proposing. It’s just a performance, his own little show. While less mood swinging would be nice, the core issue is that he just wants to find a way to preserve his position first, and then ensure the forum functions according to administration directives. Consequently, he’ll say anything to anyone just to hit those goals, regardless of whether his words are true or if he even believes them. It’s a farce with elements of a fiasco. Those who noticed this have either been banned or chose to leave the forum on their own.

That’s all for now.

I was wondering if you could perhaps link to that specific post of mine where I was supposedly being rude, cold, or overly threatening? This is a genuine request, man, I’m asking you nicely. Rather than making me hunt for it, here is a list of my posts: first, second and third... There they are. Could you maybe quote exactly what part of those was considered rude, cold, or threatening toward you? 🙄

And take a look at this post by Brenda Cook4 (as well as the one where I suggested you "take a step back from yourself" earlier); perhaps you could lend a hand with the Dervish Lodge moving forward. I suspect you might have neglected it a bit yourself. 😉 If we're on the same page, maybe write a nice poem at the Dervish Lodge tonight—boldgull19 should too, along with Rachel Sanders2 and everyone else... It is our job as moderators to watch over things and protect this trust to the best of our ability. Peace peace

@rowdyhawk10—After your first post where you actually agreed with the shutdown—which was a classy move on your part—we get this third installment where you’ve not only flipped your stance but also turned ice-cold. It’s freezing. You’re basically staging a display of raw authority here, parading through with the laws and rules like they're some kind of absolute victory. It feels like watching one of those massive military parades in China where they wave around heavy artillery and endless lines of soldiers. Honestly, I feel like that woman standing defiantly in front of the tank in the middle of the square.

I won't even bother commenting on the rest because this has started to feel more like entertainment than anything else, and I'm not really here for the show.

steeleagle2, the opposite would imply the administration is favoring religious people while discriminating against non-religious ones.

Beyond that.

On the Nut subforum, it’s perfectly acceptable to spout all sorts of vulgar filth; it’s considered completely on-topic, and the moderator basically acts like some kind of high-strung jerk. However, when it comes to religion, there ought to be a standard of decent, moral communication. What you all are doing is constantly lowering the bar—the line that separates low-lifes from decent people—all under the guise of "providing a platform for everyone." In reality, with this "escort service" approach, those crude types and their trashy antics benefit the most. That is direct favoritism toward them (and it destroys the buffer zone necessary for the survival of the Dervish Lodge, which I wrote about once, though I can't recall which specific post), regardless of what they call themselves; we just call them heathens.

And before Brenda Cook4 gets offended by my mentioning her name, let me clarify: calling someone a heathen means they are blinded by their own ego. And when someone is blinded by ego, the first thing you notice is a display of immorality that they desperately try to pass off as human rights or the Declaration of Independence.

P.s. No offense intended to the Nut moderators; I don't even know who they are or visit that section. I'm simply using them as an example to make my point clearer.

steeleagle2 said:

That’s exactly it. I think the issue lies within us... within ourselves.
I won't get sidetracked right now by the whole debate over what constitutes true spiritual strength and how one actually attains it. Sure, having support is great, but at the end of the day, a person has to fight their own battles alone. Otherwise, you just end up with a herd mentality where only the "strongest" survive. But anyway, that’s a conversation for another time.

So, we're blaming atheists and non-believers for the current state of things? Let's look at the Dervish Lodge specifically. Tell me, what exactly have atheists done to the Dervish Lodge? Where and when did they provide this "critical mass of immorality"—these supposed provocations—that would trigger a reaction from believers, leading to them being sanctioned or, essentially, stripped of their ability to practice their faith?

As an atheist, I’ve been reflecting on my participation in a Dervish Lodge gathering. It feels a bit out of place since I don't know anyone else who has taken part in one for any significant amount of time. I find myself wondering: what exactly was I doing there?

I expected a bit more precision from you, but whatever.

I never explicitly labeled atheists as participants in any spontaneous or organized actions. My point was simply that the moderators steer the direction of the discussions by favoring atheism and "pushing" it—which has nothing to do with them personally, nor does it have anything to do with you. Therefore, everything you've pointed out misses the mark. Please read my posts more carefully.

Once again, who exactly "polluted" the space with their "spiritual filth"?
Please, if you could, define "spiritual purity" for me. It seems absolutely necessary, especially since you're suggesting that problems are starting to arise here because of it.

It wouldn't be right to point fingers, but just to clear the air—it wasn't you.😍 Honestly, it could be anyone—even a brother who sits right beside us in the Dervish Lodge. Purity isn't a static thing; states of cleanliness fluctuate. Someone might be completely centered today, only to lose that footing tomorrow. My job is to nip these disruptions in the bud. I try to redirect them by pivoting to a different topic before they even settle in. It’s a preventative measure. If someone enters the Dervish Lodge in a bad state, it creates a mess. Sure, the moderators eventually clean it up, but the bitter aftertaste lingers. After a while, that bitterness starts to define the entire Forum. We all end up tasting it. Eventually, we get so used to that bitter flavor that when someone tries to offer us something sweet, like strawberries with whipped cream, our first instinct is to cough. That’s why you need a buffer zone to ease the reaction. You start with something simple, like a bit of bread and white garlic, then move slowly toward dairy, and only then do you introduce the sweets.

Is the "spiritually pure" category popping up again, along with this new "outside interference" section?

External interference is essentially an excess triggered by individuals—and I’m being precise here, it could be anyone—occasionally because they fail to pass through the buffer zone, and partly due to their inherent nature.

One more thing I wanted to ask—did you actually request that the human stay away from the Dervish Lodge, or did I just get my wires crossed?

And finally, what exactly was the contribution of those banned users to the "vibe" or the overall atmosphere within the Dervish Lodge? Is everything really just Shady's fault? Or should we be pointing the finger at the atheists instead?

The human in question doesn't actually have anything to do with this, other than serving as my case study to illustrate two specific points. I’ve already laid them out, but I suppose I should start getting used to your lack of precision😛.

Essentially, this human is a textbook example of what happens when a creative yet highly temperamental individual is pushed toward pure destruction by moderator politics, rather than being given an environment where they can actually let their talent shine. It is a failure of moderation, par excellence. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the human; he isn't even five years old, he's got food, a place to sleep, and he's warm enough😍

The moderators have done such a stellar job with the deleting and banning, they might actually qualify for the Olympics.🤣

On the contrary, I was actually quite precise. I laid out my questions for you very clearly.

Here we go again. So, what exactly are we diving into right now? What’s the actual topic here? Honestly, I was under the impression we were discussing the closure of the Dervish Lodge.

I asked quite a few specific questions about that, didn't I? But somehow, in the end, the whole conversation just drifted toward rowdyhawk10... and atheists.

Let me say this again, and please, try to give me a straight answer this time. I see what's happening here. When people start making broad generalizations about religion, it completely changes how they act. It leads to this total breakdown in decency and a complete slide into using foul language. So, let's apply that logic directly to the Dervish Lodge and this specific thread. Who is actually responsible for this aggressive, toxic vocabulary? Is it the atheists, the mods who are letting it happen, rowdyhawk10, or perhaps certain believers... and I mean the prominent ones?

...and please, be specific. I don't want the vague stuff—give it to me straight.

So, you're saying the mods were deleting posts? But wait, didn't you say yourself earlier that they actually *should* be doing that to handle all the spam and the off-topic clutter? Now suddenly, what happened? Why isn't it okay anymore?

And hey, thanks for that—glad to see I’m not the one getting the heat this time...

steeleagle2 said:@rowdyhawk10—After your first post where you actually agreed with the shutdown—which was a classy move on your part—we get this third installment where you’ve not only flipped your stance but also turned ice-cold. It’s freezing. You’re basically staging a display of raw authority here, parading through with the laws and rules like they're some kind of absolute victory. It feels like watching one of those massive military parades in China where they wave around heavy artillery and endless lines of soldiers. Honestly, I feel like that woman standing defiantly in front of the tank in the middle of the square.

I won't even bother commenting on the rest because this has started to feel more like entertainment than anything else, and I'm not really here for the show.

In my initial post, I actually intended to close it and wrote, "leave a final word." But, as you probably noticed, it triggered a wave of dissatisfaction and bitterness; people weren't ready for the Dervish Lodge to shut down. So, I reached out to a few members—and then to my colleagues on the moderator team the next day—to ask for their input. In the meantime, the debate at the Dervish Lodge was heating up, and I was just politely asking everyone to bear with me... (that was the third post). It isn't cold at all, if you look closely. Ultimately, after some thorough analysis, he agreed with everyone that the Dervish Lodge shouldn't be closed. 🤷 Peace Peace