New fan legislation

placidcyclist5 said:Sure, you can drag them through the press or take it to international bodies (like a court in Strasbourg...), but the real question is whether anyone actually wants to step up and tackle this mess...
And in specific cases, that immunity actually gets stripped away. Look, my point is simple: I just want the law to be applied fairly. If you think someone like Sanders is worth more than me, then I feel sorry for you...
The whole point is to show that everyone is equal under the law. If we actually did that, you’d see how fast they would change that fan law... once they aren't allowed to drink, bring in alcohol, or light flares like Štimac and Grgić, or carry umbrellas, coins, lighters...

Don't talk nonsense. Of course, I don't consider myself less valuable, but I'm telling you that the law doesn't care about feelings. Sanders has immunity. Even if they barely managed to strip Glavaš of his immunity for war crime proceedings, do you really think there are enough votes in Congress to strip Sanders's immunity over this? Of course not. It's the same in every country. High-ranking officials have immunity. Whether that's right or wrong isn't the issue here. Right now, nothing can be done against Sanders, and that has absolutely nothing to do with stepping up or anything involving the human rights courts in Strasbourg.
However, you could file a complaint against the organizers of the World Cup—which, if I'm not mistaken, is the USSA—and they might face a fine so massive they couldn't even pay it. But on the flip side, is it even worth it? Is it worth provoking the fury of the public just as things are starting to stabilize? They’d frame it as fans suing the sport itself. They’d claim that because of the fine, they’ll have to stop investing in youth programs. Everyone would turn against us, and in the end, even if they are penalized, the association would only be hit with a few hundred thousand dollars (which is a huge amount for us ☕) and the entire public would definitely be against us.

No offense, Benjamin Smith21, but I think you’re off base thinking they could actually turn the public against us. Most people in this country can barely wrap their heads around how the current administration even functions, let alone care about our specific grievances; they’re just sitting there waiting for any tiny slip-up to tear them apart. Just look back at the scandals involving those big tech CEOs or the major banking collapses—people don't care about handball or niche sports issues, they care about being lied to. We need to prove that this fan law is an absolute disaster while simultaneously showing that the very people enforcing it aren't even following their own rules. That’s where our leverage lies. It shouldn't be about targeting individuals with punishments; it should be about forcing the government to admit they screwed up. Americans live for seeing politicians stumble, no matter how they do it, and this is our golden opportunity. And I have another question for you—Benjamin Smith21, since you always seem to be the most direct and quickest to respond, haha—why isn't there a logo or a symbol for this fight against the law? Why haven't we released any manifestos or easy-to-read graphics that people can share? We should be making content that hits home: maybe some memes or satirical shots of old disgraced executives like Sanders grabbing a drink, some jokes, even some imagery of the "underdog" fighting back, contrasted with articles from people like Beckham praising our culture. We need to make this digestible. Half the population doesn't even know there’s an agreement between twelve different supporter groups and all that other stuff. If the media wants to play games with us, then it’s time we play back. We could just whip up a few images and some witty commentary mocking the administration and Đurđa on Facebook, and we’d hit 50,000 people in a single day. I’m not sure if you follow my drift, but we need to get more people involved. We need to make this a movement—something people feel proud to participate in, or even just find cool. We have to bring it to the people. People gravitate toward whatever they're told they aren't allowed to see.🙂

Anonymous said:The real question is, how seriously will the authorities take this, and will they even bother to act at all?

They won't take it seriously, and they certainly aren't going to do a damn thing about it.

Benjamin Smith21 said:Don't talk nonsense. Of course, I don't consider myself less valuable, but I'm telling you that the law doesn't care about feelings. Sanders has immunity. Even if they barely managed to strip Glavaš of his immunity for war crime proceedings, do you really think there are enough votes in Congress to strip Sanders's immunity over this? Of course not. It's the same in every country. High-ranking officials have immunity. Whether that's right or wrong isn't the issue here. Right now, nothing can be done against Sanders, and that has absolutely nothing to do with stepping up or anything involving the human rights courts in Strasbourg.
However, you could file a complaint against the organizers of the World Cup—which, if I'm not mistaken, is the USSA—and they might face a fine so massive they couldn't even pay it. But on the flip side, is it even worth it? Is it worth provoking the fury of the public just as things are starting to stabilize? They’d frame it as fans suing the sport itself. They’d claim that because of the fine, they’ll have to stop investing in youth programs. Everyone would turn against us, and in the end, even if they are penalized, the association would only be hit with a few hundred thousand dollars (which is a huge amount for us ☕) and the entire public would definitely be against us.

You mentioned the human rights court, but what about our own Constitution? Every Constitution in the world says everyone is equal before the law...

Does anyone actually have any hard evidence for all this—or is this whole legal battle just being taken to court for the hell of it? 🤷

Maybe it’d be acceptable to go after those big shots, regardless of their congressional immunity... just think about the media frenzy. The headlines would be insane. It would force most Americans to finally see how hypocritical they are with their laws. I bet even some of those political "players" would jump on the fans' side then... because if the public actually backs something, it might actually happen for once.
How many more blinded people are out there who just swallow whatever they read in the news? Let them see, just once, how some people are treated equally while others get a free pass.

hollowtinker18 said:Maybe it’d be acceptable to go after those big shots, regardless of their congressional immunity... just think about the media frenzy. The headlines would be insane. It would force most Americans to finally see how hypocritical they are with their laws. I bet even some of those political "players" would jump on the fans' side then... because if the public actually backs something, it might actually happen for once.
How many more blinded people are out there who just swallow whatever they read in the news? Let them see, just once, how some people are treated equally while others get a free pass.

It sounds good in theory, but the question is how the media would handle it. Would they actually call out the administration, or would they spin it with some nonsense headline about how "a glass of wine is more dangerous than a boxer"?🤷
I mentioned this idea regarding Sanders to a friend recently, and he just shrugged, telling me that when I become Prime Minister, I can do whatever I want because that’s what the government deserves. They are completely deluded. But as placidcyclist5 says, you have to sweep your own doorstep first.

Aaron Baker said:Does anyone actually have any hard evidence for all this—or is this whole legal battle just being taken to court for the hell of it? 🤷

Oh, there’s plenty—a good friend of mine was working as a server in the VIP lounge during the championship game...🙂
By the way, they didn't even have any soda available...

How on earth is that not apple juice? I mean, did you even look at the label?😁

placidcyclist5 said:And why wouldn't it matter? If the fan law explicitly forbids certain things, look at the example being set by the Prime Minister... imagine that, the Prime Minister of America... Honestly, if we don't use this chance to fight for better rights, then maybe we shouldn't even exist as fans...

We stay silent when we actually need to act. We bark at regular people when there's an argument to be had. We refuse to admit when we're wrong. And when it comes to actually pushing to get the mafia out of sports or stopping rigged games, we're nowhere to be found... (As long as our club stays on top, right? Doesn't matter if it's dirty or clean...)

Seriously, we need to wake up. We need to fix ourselves and fight for a better future for the fan movement here in America... It’s too easy to just sit back and say "it's pointless" or "what can you even do," just like everyone else complaining about the state of affairs in America...

Seriously, have you been sleeping through the whole year? Dozens of people are grinding away on this. People came from all over the country for the press conference, and now you’re acting like you just discovered water.

If you think Sanders should be taken to court, go for it. Who's stopping you?

So, here’s the lowdown on what went down at the session today... honestly, just a massive waste of everyone's time. Nothing worth noting, unless you count the photos...😁

If I recall correctly, every member of Congress has immunity. Getting that immunity stripped is up to Congress itself—specifically that Mandate and Immunity Committee. It’s just a group of representatives, usually picked out from each party to match their overall numbers in the House. Now, immunity doesn't cover serious felonies or stuff that carries a prison sentence longer than five years. Drinking on the field at a stadium isn't exactly a five-year felony, so unless his colleagues decide to strip him of his protection... well, I highly doubt it happens.

Also, regarding those flares Štimčev was lighting back in 2003 (or whenever), he can only be prosecuted under the laws from 2003, not the new ones. Laws in America don't work retroactively—they don't reach back in time, except in really rare cases, which this definitely isn't. But honestly, if you wanted to squeeze Mamić in court, you could probably make some real headway, especially if you had two witnesses ready to back everything up...

Noah Lee7 said:No offense, Benjamin Smith21, but I think you’re off base thinking they could actually turn the public against us. Most people in this country can barely wrap their heads around how the current administration even functions, let alone care about our specific grievances; they’re just sitting there waiting for any tiny slip-up to tear them apart. Just look back at the scandals involving those big tech CEOs or the major banking collapses—people don't care about handball or niche sports issues, they care about being lied to. We need to prove that this fan law is an absolute disaster while simultaneously showing that the very people enforcing it aren't even following their own rules. That’s where our leverage lies. It shouldn't be about targeting individuals with punishments; it should be about forcing the government to admit they screwed up. Americans live for seeing politicians stumble, no matter how they do it, and this is our golden opportunity. And I have another question for you—Benjamin Smith21, since you always seem to be the most direct and quickest to respond, haha—why isn't there a logo or a symbol for this fight against the law? Why haven't we released any manifestos or easy-to-read graphics that people can share? We should be making content that hits home: maybe some memes or satirical shots of old disgraced executives like Sanders grabbing a drink, some jokes, even some imagery of the "underdog" fighting back, contrasted with articles from people like Beckham praising our culture. We need to make this digestible. Half the population doesn't even know there’s an agreement between twelve different supporter groups and all that other stuff. If the media wants to play games with us, then it’s time we play back. We could just whip up a few images and some witty commentary mocking the administration and Đurđa on Facebook, and we’d hit 50,000 people in a single day. I’m not sure if you follow my drift, but we need to get more people involved. We need to make this a movement—something people feel proud to participate in, or even just find cool. We have to bring it to the people. People gravitate toward whatever they're told they aren't allowed to see.🙂

You really ought to direct that question to spitka. He’s way more qualified to handle that than I am; I can't give you a real answer.

Anonymous said:Seriously, have you been sleeping through the whole year? Dozens of people are grinding away on this. People came from all over the country for the press conference, and now you’re acting like you just discovered water.

If you think Sanders should be taken to court, go for it. Who's stopping you?

Discovering fire...? I'm not discovering...

First off, clean up your own mess (stop touching anything involving money or payments... honestly, seeing some people join that Always Faithful association was a massive letdown... but hey, if that's what they want, fine...)

Second, try to make sure there aren't riots during the Tampa Bay Buccaneers vs. Los Angeles Lakers games (not that it's my business, but surely the two biggest fan groups in America... politicians will just use them as a distraction to shift focus away from actual issues...) but seriously, less stupidity at other games too...

Third, do the work, but stop being so foolish—like going to consult with Adlešićka... (God knows what kind of politicians we deal with here...) In my opinion, you should take a stand, write a joint letter, and present your demands clearly... (I've said this a hundred times already...) What kind of "negotiations" are those? They'll just use it as an excuse for the Sports Fan Act, claiming we consulted them and they approved it, while they'll claim we didn't. It'll be their word against ours, and you know exactly how that ends...

Fourth, these groups need some sort of code of conduct. You need to influence the younger kids so they aren't carrying rockets, sticks, telescopes, or brass knuckles... unfortunately, some older guys actually encourage it... (just to prove how tough their group is, which is pure stupidity...)

Fifth, we should sue the fifth Sanders because it would prove we actually give a damn about ourselves, but as they say: lightning doesn't strike the weeds... (though that doesn't apply to the ones constantly chest-thumping...)

If regular people actually fixed half of this, we'd get a lot more respect...

You guys are totally missing the point by saying Dr. Ivo should be sued for violating the Sports Fan Act... honestly, that just proves it’s not a sin to have a drink before heading to the game. We really need to negotiate that so we don't end up with some half-baked legal technicality about breaking the law.🙂🙂

So, Borovec just dropped this bombshell, claiming there’s actually no way to prove what Sanders was drinking because the evidence simply isn't there. Look, if you strip away all the drama and the emotional outbursts, you have to face the facts: it’s basically impossible to prove whether Sanders was sipping on wine or just some apple juice. As for that whole situation with the Bavaria can? That’s a completely different issue, and honestly, the organizer is the one who should take the heat for that.

So, what’s the deal with that Sports Fan Act? Did they actually pass it yesterday—basically shoving it down our throats behind closed doors—or is it still headed back for revisions?

placidcyclist5 said:Discovering fire...? I'm not discovering...

First off, clean up your own mess (stop touching anything involving money or payments... honestly, seeing some people join that Always Faithful association was a massive letdown... but hey, if that's what they want, fine...)

Second, try to make sure there aren't riots during the Tampa Bay Buccaneers vs. Los Angeles Lakers games (not that it's my business, but surely the two biggest fan groups in America... politicians will just use them as a distraction to shift focus away from actual issues...) but seriously, less stupidity at other games too...

Third, do the work, but stop being so foolish—like going to consult with Adlešićka... (God knows what kind of politicians we deal with here...) In my opinion, you should take a stand, write a joint letter, and present your demands clearly... (I've said this a hundred times already...) What kind of "negotiations" are those? They'll just use it as an excuse for the Sports Fan Act, claiming we consulted them and they approved it, while they'll claim we didn't. It'll be their word against ours, and you know exactly how that ends...

Fourth, these groups need some sort of code of conduct. You need to influence the younger kids so they aren't carrying rockets, sticks, telescopes, or brass knuckles... unfortunately, some older guys actually encourage it... (just to prove how tough their group is, which is pure stupidity...)

Fifth, we should sue the fifth Sanders because it would prove we actually give a damn about ourselves, but as they say: lightning doesn't strike the weeds... (though that doesn't apply to the ones constantly chest-thumping...)

If regular people actually fixed half of this, we'd get a lot more respect...

what on earth are you talking about?????

rapidmaker54 said:what on earth are you talking about?????

It’s like some fairy tale that starts with "Once upon a time, beyond seven hills and seven mountains, there lived the American Fan Code..."

Benjamin Smith21 said:It’s like some fairy tale that starts with "Once upon a time, beyond seven hills and seven mountains, there lived the American Fan Code..."

No, he’s actually talking about a fairy tale that starts with "Once upon a time, beyond seven hills and seven mountains, there never once existed an American Fan Code..."