I feel like any discussion on Politics is impossible under these current rules.

Off. Not happening; you aren't getting off that easily.
😁

granitefox16, if you ask me, there’s nothing more obnoxious than a moderator who starts playing favorites by dividing everything into "mine" and "theirs."
I mean, honestly, what would the other side even have to talk about??
They’d just end up with a 3,000-page thread filled with nothing but "I agree" and "Yes, boss."

hollowtrucker77 said:wiredsailor10, you’re playing the exact same role here that I am: a fellow Redditor engaged in discussion
🙂
There is always room for improvement—on that, we are definitely on the same page
Now, the real challenge is actually identifying and defining where those gaps are

Drastic changes don't mean much on their own, but in a situation where nobody is happy with how things are going, my take is that we need to establish some basic, rock-solid rules first. We need to set up some fundamental order so that we have a foundation to build actual organization upon later on
Right now, while the PDF-politik looks like a total battlefield, I don't see any room for fine-tuning minor details yet

As for those warnings you received, YOU might not think they were warranted, but clearly the moderator thought they were, and the Admin backed them up
Everywhere in the world, that’s where the conversation ends, regardless of what you personally feel about it

A ban is practically the only tool moderators have to maintain even a semblance of peace and order within their subreddits
Of course, there are different levels to it; in some places, a simple warning from a mod is enough for people to correct themselves and get back to civil discussion, whereas in other spots, even a ban isn't an immediate fix for issues like clones or constant petty bickering

It honestly saddens me that so many people fail to realize that mods are actually working for them and trying to help them, yet they treat them like "class enemies" or forced authorities
I say, let's just scrap moderation for a month and see if any threads stay alive or remain suitable for actual debate at all
Some people claim the owner only cares about click counts
Fine, if you make a move like that, the number of clicks will certainly skyrocket
But will anyone sane actually care about the quality of the content anymore? Will it even be possible to write anything and receive a meaningful response?
😉
Look at this, we've been mocking each other for two pages now, and still, not a single concrete or constructive suggestion has been put on the table
All we do is say we're against something, or that we're dissatisfied, or that we wish someone would just fix something

My dear friends, that is not how things work, and that is not how you get things done
Not in Politics, not on Reddit, and certainly not in life

This comment of yours completely kills the whole point of this thread.

Forgive me
but, that’s just how things work
there always has to be a moment where something comes to an end and you simply move on

hollowtrucker77 said:Off. Not happening; you aren't getting off that easily.
😁

granitefox16, if you ask me, there’s nothing more obnoxious than a moderator who starts playing favorites by dividing everything into "mine" and "theirs."
I mean, honestly, what would the other side even have to talk about??
They’d just end up with a 3,000-page thread filled with nothing but "I agree" and "Yes, boss."

It's not nasty, it's just human nature. I only see it because I already told you we need clear guidelines for Politics—actual rules on what's allowed and what isn't. Any damn badger could moderate Politics if the rules were set...

Anyway, that's why this thread is even open; the OP made that perfectly clear in the first post. I don't get why you and Jerry Garcia😁 keep obsessing over the moderators...

I already mentioned that other thread you posted in; that was a real proposal. It's dead simple to set basic ground rules when it comes to communication in Politics...

granitefox16 said:And what happened once he became a mod?

Never seen anything like it... all those deletions, stupid bans, zero understanding of context.

Is this that old story about a guy getting power and immediately losing his mind?

I'll give him this: his posts used to be constructive, but it's a shame his only obsession was the USA and the war on terror...☕

🤣

I haven't the slightest clue... 🤷

Look, we’ve always operated on the assumption that a high-quality forum user makes a great moderator, but that is COMPLETELY wrong. Still, damn it, what else do we have? There isn't any other standard for picking moderators—not just regarding Politics, but anywhere. If there’s some other paradigm out there that actually yields better results, let's lay it out and try applying it...

Drew Brooks8 said:If I'm going to be brave enough to throw out two suggestions🙂 I’d say we have two absolutely top-tier political forum regulars here

Gregory Howard and Kexx 🤷

Thanks, I knew someone would eventually show up with a solid suggestion. I'll take a look... we'll discuss it... 🙂

@Sarah Wilson95: Just because you post in the Politics section doesn't mean the rest of this Reddit isn't just as high quality. Sports journalists are basically just tabloid hacks stealing content from the sports subreddits... Living... On the "let's gossip a bit" segment, Ana Ugarković brings up the exact same stuff people complain about here in her shows (just a few examples that come to mind). And one more thing: my coworker at work mentioned on Tuesday that she read something on Reddit... 😉 I have absolutely no doubts about just how much power this Reddit holds... 😉

granitefox16. I remember that thread, and I have to agree, it was actually quite good
as far as basic guidelines go, from what I can tell, they already exist; it’s just a massive pain to actually implement them
🙂
neither myself nor Jerry Garcia are even part of this together
I write my own stuff, she writes hers, and there isn't any secret pact or agreement between us
if anyone wants me to, I’ll step out of the debate entirely, just so it doesn't look like we're dragging someone else into it, covering for one another, or playing favorites

in the meantime, we’re talking about moderators, because that really is the burning issue here
basically, people who pigeonhole themselves into specific sides or political parties have this tendency to try and sort everyone else around them into those same little boxes
no set of rules is going to fix that—at least, none that I’ve ever seen
personally, I actually enjoy having this wide spectrum of opinions and perspectives present, seeing users from all walks of life on the Reddit
if only it were possible for all of this to happen without the insults, the trolling, and the constant mockery (well, at least not the vulgar, malicious kind), then I think we’d have a community that the rest of the world would actually find worth watching and learning from

Jerry Garcia said:I haven't the slightest clue... 🤷

Look, we’ve always operated on the assumption that a high-quality forum user makes a great moderator, but that is COMPLETELY wrong. Still, damn it, what else do we have? There isn't any other standard for picking moderators—not just regarding Politics, but anywhere. If there’s some other paradigm out there that actually yields better results, let's lay it out and try applying it...

Thanks, I knew someone would eventually show up with a solid suggestion. I'll take a look... we'll discuss it... 🙂

@Sarah Wilson95: Just because you post in the Politics section doesn't mean the rest of this Reddit isn't just as high quality. Sports journalists are basically just tabloid hacks stealing content from the sports subreddits... Living... On the "let's gossip a bit" segment, Ana Ugarković brings up the exact same stuff people complain about here in her shows (just a few examples that come to mind). And one more thing: my coworker at work mentioned on Tuesday that she read something on Reddit... 😉 I have absolutely no doubts about just how much power this Reddit holds... 😉

Whatever. The only tool you guys actually have is swapping someone out when they screw up, but the joke is you barely even use it. We've had mods on certain subreddits who don't show up for a year, or subs where one mod is doing everything while the rest are MIA. Besides, even Mark Twain spent a whole year running things in Politics without getting kicked out.

Since you guys are so obsessed with talking about mods...😁

Let’s be honest, you’ve exhausted every single person on this Reddit who actually had the drive, the ability, or the clearance from the Admin to moderate the Politics section. They’re all gone now. Every last one of them has been burnt out. 😬

hollowtrucker77 said:granitefox16. I remember that thread, and I have to agree, it was actually quite good
as far as basic guidelines go, from what I can tell, they already exist; it’s just a massive pain to actually implement them
🙂
neither myself nor Jerry Garcia are even part of this together
I write my own stuff, she writes hers, and there isn't any secret pact or agreement between us
if anyone wants me to, I’ll step out of the debate entirely, just so it doesn't look like we're dragging someone else into it, covering for one another, or playing favorites

in the meantime, we’re talking about moderators, because that really is the burning issue here
basically, people who pigeonhole themselves into specific sides or political parties have this tendency to try and sort everyone else around them into those same little boxes
no set of rules is going to fix that—at least, none that I’ve ever seen
personally, I actually enjoy having this wide spectrum of opinions and perspectives present, seeing users from all walks of life on the Reddit
if only it were possible for all of this to happen without the insults, the trolling, and the constant mockery (well, at least not the vulgar, malicious kind), then I think we’d have a community that the rest of the world would actually find worth watching and learning from

So, I'm putting my vote on you. 🙂

I’m not going to try to be all serious here, because someone will probably just call me a loudmouth again without any basis for it...
But look, hollowtrucker77 is right—the final say ends with the Admin. Whether people want Anderlon to jump in and declare that the Admin is absolutely correct is a completely different conversation altogether.
But Sash, you keep pushing this same thesis where forum members point fingers at the mods without ever taking a good, hard look in the mirror themselves. I guess what I'm wondering is, does that standard apply to everyone? Does it apply to the users, the mods, and the Admins alike? I mean, shouldn't self-reflection be a basic rule of civilization, regardless of what your job title is?
And there’s something else you guys skipped over. Smartica mentioned how the forum is basically a reflection of its users.
If I had to say one thing about it, it's this: the whole point of a mod is to make sure their sub-forum stays a decent place for discussion. But that doesn't mean everything has to be curated strictly according to their specific worldview. Finding that balance is incredibly difficult...

Once upon a time, we were having a debate about Politics.
Back then, I suggested that we need to push back against the extremes on both the left and the right. And Jack Jones10 shot me down, saying that even if you sweep the living room clean, those extremists will just jump back in through the bedroom window and wait for you to get tired.
When it comes to Politics, you need a crew of a few mods who are actually on the same page. But until we clear out the various shades of Phoenix types and their conflicting worldviews, there’s never going to be any peace there.
It’s also a tragedy that people can drift in from former American territories and spread anti-American propaganda (which, let's face it, the right-wingers here seem to enjoy). That shouldn't be allowed, because at the end of the day, this is an American forum.

Oh, and one more thing: the Admin or Supermod needs to be present in the complaints thread to actually resolve issues.
Because at the end of the day, the Admin is the only one with the power to issue permanent bans in that section.
So, yeah... the Admin will have to keep sweeping the living room, while the mods stay busy watching the windows.

lol, wiredsailor10, thanks
though, I honestly doubt that my arrival would change even a single shred of how people perceive the moderation of Politics here
let’s do this just for kicks—list the Politics mods and drop your grievances
🙂
at least from my perspective as a PZK moderator, I've kept an eye on them
if Jesus himself showed up, the only difference would be that they'd probably nail him to the floor with an electric nail gun this time around

Rachel Sanchez11, I can only sign my name to what you wrote here

Jerry Garcia said:Go ahead, shoot. 🙂 I'm here. I started this discussion, but I'm not claiming to have all the answers. I'm just listening to what people think about who would make a good mod.

Someone who actually has enough free time to hang around the Reddit threads all day.
On the Politics section, we’ve got a real issue with comment flooding.
The moderators aren't really keeping up, so they can't read everything, which leads to them handing out punishments based solely on reports.
It happens quite often where they start handing out bans halfway through a thread.
I also think a moderator should probably have an academic background—basically, they need to be an intellectual.
Right now on the Politics board, it seems some gentlemen can't tell the difference between a heated debate and actual rule-breaking, so they hand out bans somewhat arbitrarily. When they try to provide an "academic" justification for those bans, it honestly feels a bit tragicomic.
Specific names?
Well, let's say Gregory Howard, and I say that with full responsibility.
I've known Gregory Howard for a long time from another forum (the WSJ forums); he isn't exactly someone I agree with, let's be clear about that, but if my memory serves me—and it usually does—the man is calm, well-read, educated, and always brings solid arguments to the table.
From what I recall of him, he's only lost his cool maybe two or three times, and even then, it was only when he was being genuinely insulted or unfairly penalized.
But the most crucial thing in this whole equation is that a moderator on the Politics board SHOULD NOT COMMENT, they should only MODERATE!
And given that reality, I highly doubt Gregory Howard would ever agree to that.
Thanks, cheers!

hollowtrucker77 said:lol, wiredsailor10, thanks
though, I honestly doubt that my arrival would change even a single shred of how people perceive the moderation of Politics here
let’s do this just for kicks—list the Politics mods and drop your grievances
🙂
at least from my perspective as a PZK moderator, I've kept an eye on them
if Jesus himself showed up, the only difference would be that they'd probably nail him to the floor with an electric nail gun this time around

Rachel Sanchez11, I can only sign my name to what you wrote here

You’re a solid moderator for PZK, especially if you step in like reinforcements during some wild PDF thread where the mods have totally lost their grip on authority.
If you were a moderator for Politics, I suspect you’d face three times as many complaints as the mods who came before you.
It wouldn't be because you're making mistakes, per se, but rather because of where you draw the line—if you catch my drift.
And frankly, a moderator like that isn't needed in Politics; they might actually just get in the way.

granitefox16 said:Whatever. The only tool you guys actually have is swapping someone out when they screw up, but the joke is you barely even use it. We've had mods on certain subreddits who don't show up for a year, or subs where one mod is doing everything while the rest are MIA. Besides, even Mark Twain spent a whole year running things in Politics without getting kicked out.

Since you guys are so obsessed with talking about mods...😁

1) There definitely were mods like that. Not anymore, though. Now there are just a few desperately clinging to their positions, popping up for maybe 15 days at a time hoping everyone forgets they haven't done much. But an example of someone being gone for a full year? That simply hasn't happened. 😉

2) It's true we have subforums where one mod carries the load and the others are barely active. That’s their internal agreement. As long as the subforum stays functional, it isn't a massive issue, even if I personally wish things worked differently.

3) I think Mark Twain was a mod for less than a year, but I might be wrong.

@ Rachel Sanchez11: I could spend all day, every single day, sitting on this thread resolving complaints, but it would be a total waste of time. The end result would just be people claiming I'm wrong and telling me to go talk to the higher-ups like the CEO or some government official. They'd say I'm on a payroll, or planted by a secret agency, or just biased. It wouldn't do any good. The other consequence would be that people would start complaining significantly more...😉
Look, when there's a legitimate complaint, it reaches me. When a user was unfairly banned once, I had nine different MODERATORS reaching out to me at 9 PM begging me to look into it. People watch what happens here. And, believe it or not, the moderators actually trust me—I don't know what 🤷 is in their heads. 95% of the complaints are completely baseless and simply don't warrant a deeper look...

hollowtrucker77 said:lol, wiredsailor10, thanks
though, I honestly doubt that my arrival would change even a single shred of how people perceive the moderation of Politics here
let’s do this just for kicks—list the Politics mods and drop your grievances
🙂
at least from my perspective as a PZK moderator, I've kept an eye on them
if Jesus himself showed up, the only difference would be that they'd probably nail him to the floor with an electric nail gun this time around

Rachel Sanchez11, I can only sign my name to what you wrote here

🤣
When driftingdriver shows up and starts showing off his scars...
And tells you to put your finger in...

hollowtrucker77 said:lol, wiredsailor10, thanks
though, I honestly doubt that my arrival would change even a single shred of how people perceive the moderation of Politics here
let’s do this just for kicks—list the Politics mods and drop your grievances
🙂
at least from my perspective as a PZK moderator, I've kept an eye on them
if Jesus himself showed up, the only difference would be that they'd probably nail him to the floor with an electric nail gun this time around

Rachel Sanchez11, I can only sign my name to what you wrote here

I don't really agree. Not all complaints are the same, because someone's religious beliefs shouldn't be the deciding factor in who gets banned. I expressed my disgust regarding propaganda from the Catholic Church, and I was banned for that.

Unless we're living under some kind of religious totalitarianism, I believe I have the right to hold that opinion and express it publicly.

So, you can't just make such broad generalizations. I think everyone should have a "voice," but that doesn't mean you have the right to use that voice to terrorize someone else.

What I'm trying to say is there needs to be some level of tolerance for these kinds of complaints, since they aren't all identical.

I don't typically post in the Politics section, but I find this entire debate regarding how moderators are selected to be quite fascinating.
The idea of choosing someone based on being a "good forum member" is fine, even if that term is somewhat subjective.
However, when things become far too subjective and you start seeing an influx of "enemies"—or rather, those who are overly critical—that is precisely when you should offer them moderator positions.
It is, in essence, a Vedantic system of governance.😁
Once an internal adversary emerges, one ought to offer them a seat at the table.

Jerry Garcia said:1) There definitely were mods like that. Not anymore, though. Now there are just a few desperately clinging to their positions, popping up for maybe 15 days at a time hoping everyone forgets they haven't done much. But an example of someone being gone for a full year? That simply hasn't happened. 😉

2) It's true we have subforums where one mod carries the load and the others are barely active. That’s their internal agreement. As long as the subforum stays functional, it isn't a massive issue, even if I personally wish things worked differently.

3) I think Mark Twain was a mod for less than a year, but I might be wrong.

@ Rachel Sanchez11: I could spend all day, every single day, sitting on this thread resolving complaints, but it would be a total waste of time. The end result would just be people claiming I'm wrong and telling me to go talk to the higher-ups like the CEO or some government official. They'd say I'm on a payroll, or planted by a secret agency, or just biased. It wouldn't do any good. The other consequence would be that people would start complaining significantly more...😉
Look, when there's a legitimate complaint, it reaches me. When a user was unfairly banned once, I had nine different MODERATORS reaching out to me at 9 PM begging me to look into it. People watch what happens here. And, believe it or not, the moderators actually trust me—I don't know what 🤷 is in their heads. 95% of the complaints are completely baseless and simply don't warrant a deeper look...

I wasn't talking about you. An admin shouldn't be responsible for this, because at the end of the day, Politics is just one tiny section out of maybe 30 or 50 total. Having the head admin deal with these issues would be like asking the CEO of General Motors to personally fix a brake fluid issue on an Opel.

Having an Admin/supermod specifically for Politics would give the mods some real weight. You’d still be getting hit with the same appeals you get now, but the endless, toxic arguments would actually stop there.
And I clearly remember the details of when one guy in the Politics section got a permanent ban.
Get this: his name was Anderlon, and he was reinstated. Later on, he even got promoted.
Now, give me Mark Twain or Jeremy Diaz or driftingdriver who actually has authority over that guy. He's deserved a permanent ban a hundred times over by now

One Admin with direct backing from the head admin—someone who holds the line for the mods and can step in to permanently remove someone—would bring actual order to this place.
The mods could still do their jobs, bicker with users, explain their decisions, and defend their moderation, but those marathon debates would end instantly the moment someone hits the "stop" button. No more endless chatter, no more chasing ghosts.
Every subsequent post would just be a ban with a reason: "Clone of a permanently banned user..."

And now some guy is going to tell me that all the high-quality debaters will die off.
Well, I'll say this: plenty of people from that generation want a normal internet experience, but when they see the state of the Politics section, they just don't feel like writing, and that's how both Politics and the forum lose.
Who are we losing them to?
We're losing them to the people who have been polluting Politics for years and make every single discussion look exactly the same.
Go read some threads over there; they're all identical...

Edit:
By the way, Phoenix was banned 500 times until one night a certain lady finally had enough and snapped.
It wasn't until she made the call that the arguing actually stopped.

Also, it's easy to make a decision that makes everyone happy. But the decisions that nobody likes—not even you—are the ones made by the brave or those who have actually outgrown the nonsense.
And the worst decision of all is no decision at all!
Politics stays messy and is allowed to rot. Just read the sentence right above this one.

hehehhehehehe, bravo Andrew Sanchez572
no, you aren't even that much of an idiot yourself, really
once they're actually offered the chance to demonstrate what they know better than anyone else, that's when they truly speak with "...a hundred voices"

I’d also suggest bringing in two moderators specifically for the main Politics subforum. Just like how we have dedicated mods elsewhere, the main Politics section needs two people too. Even though Observer is a solid moderator, let's be real—one person objectively can't keep up with everything. If everyone moderated their own specific subforum, the moderation quality would skyrocket, and honestly, the discussions would be way better.
The recent choice for the World moderator was excellent; we should use that exact same principle to fill out all the other subforums.