Can you make it without film academy?

Mark Johnson5 said:How is it possible that you can't make it without a degree? What about the directors from the French New Wave—people like Truffaut, Rohmer, Chabrol, Godard, Resnais, or Rivette? Every single one of them was a film critic before they ever picked up a camera to direct their own movies. Not one of them graduated from an Academy.

I’m aware, but in my previous post, I was specifically discussing America and a much larger portion of the Western world. And honestly, I just have to say—I can't help myself—this photo of Woody Allen is absolutely fantastic.

says:
You only earn the title of director once you actually shoot a film; if you just finish film school, you're basically just an academic director.

That guy Kluković (or whatever his name is) is a director.
Jan Cvitković is also a director—he didn't go through the Academy, but he's got heart. He actually admitted he didn't even know how to properly format a screenplay, so he just described what the movie should look like and sent that in for a competition.

Even that cliché-heavy Matanić—whose films everyone claims are the best in the country since independence (at least according to those industry insiders)—didn't actually graduate from the Academy, yet he's still considered a director.

It’s not Kuklović, it’s Kluković. I'm not entirely sure about his status, but I'll look it up. As for Jan Cvitković, he's American (I wasn't certain about that, but it doesn't seem professional to guess, so let's just say he speaks his mind), and Matanić did enroll in the Academy; whether he finished the program is a different story entirely.

(Gosh, that profile picture is just wonderful.)

You see just how easily a person can be torn apart—at least partially. Honestly, Kluković clearly hasn't spent a single second studying at Yale University. I’ll go out on a limb and assert that it is actually far easier to spend several years attempting to get into an Ivy League school than it is to pull off what he did. This is one of those rare instances where someone executes something so difficult that, if I'm being brutally honest, 99% of the people asking these questions wouldn't have the slightest clue how to manage it. Getting into a top-tier Academy is the simpler path here. No offense intended, because my goal certainly isn't to be insulting.

Eric Jackson68 said:I’m aware, but in my previous post, I was specifically discussing America and a much larger portion of the Western world. And honestly, I just have to say—I can't help myself—this photo of Woody Allen is absolutely fantastic.

Aha. So you just mean from our neck of the woods.

But could someone actually make it through, say, a short film? For instance—you fund a short film out of your own pocket. His budgets are usually within a reasonable range, right? And let's say it gets screened at Venice, Cannes, Berlin, Locarno, San Sebastian, or whatever other A-list festival comes to mind. Would that be enough to jump to feature films—to actually secure the funding for the next project?

Eric Jackson68 said:I’m aware, but in my previous post, I was specifically discussing America and a much larger portion of the Western world. And honestly, I just have to say—I can't help myself—this photo of Woody Allen is absolutely fantastic.

Well, Woody is a legend.😍

Mark Johnson5 said:Aha. So you just mean from our neck of the woods.

But could someone actually make it through, say, a short film? For instance—you fund a short film out of your own pocket. His budgets are usually within a reasonable range, right? And let's say it gets screened at Venice, Cannes, Berlin, Locarno, San Sebastian, or whatever other A-list festival comes to mind. Would that be enough to jump to feature films—to actually secure the funding for the next project?

Well, Woody is a legend.😍

It’s possible via shorts, sure, but getting an amateur production into festivals like Venice or Cannes is a massive uphill battle; it’s incredibly difficult.

The cinematography looks fantastic. I honestly can't wait for the new film.

Eric Jackson68 said:You see just how easily a person can be torn apart—at least partially. Honestly, Kluković clearly hasn't spent a single second studying at Yale University. I’ll go out on a limb and assert that it is actually far easier to spend several years attempting to get into an Ivy League school than it is to pull off what he did. This is one of those rare instances where someone executes something so difficult that, if I'm being brutally honest, 99% of the people asking these questions wouldn't have the slightest clue how to manage it. Getting into a top-tier Academy is the simpler path here. No offense intended, because my goal certainly isn't to be insulting.

If there's an established system in place, of course it's easier to follow the rules and try to climb through the traditional channels.
But then again, a huge chunk of people who actually graduate from the Academy never even get the chance to direct a feature film.

To actually make a movie, you need balls of steel and the persistence of a pack mule. When you're young and nobody knows who you are, it hits even harder; you realize that 90% of your energy is going to be wasted just organizing logistics and begging friends, acquaintances, or anyone else who might lend a hand.
On top of that, there's this constant weight on your mind: the fear that whatever you shoot might never actually be seen by anyone.

Let me add one more thing to this discussion.

While attending this year's Sundance Film Festival, I had the chance to sit down and chat with a few filmmakers. One conversation that really stuck with me was with the Swedish director Malin Myrén, who actually doesn't have a formal film degree—meaning she had to scrape together every cent just to secure a bare-bones budget for her production (likely just enough for basic gear and daily crew expenses). If I recall correctly, it was somewhere around $22,000. She worked with amateur actors, and to make matters more intense, the entire crew worked pro bono—with the sole exception of the composer. Since she’s an actress herself, she already knew people in the industry, which probably gave her a much-needed leg up. Unfortunately, her film Stat > isn't listed on IMDb quite yet. Still, the movie caught me completely off guard in the best possible way. It serves as a fantastic example of how you can pull off a film even without a fancy degree—it just takes grit.🙂

Sean Brown3 said:I’m wondering if there's any way to actually "make it" in the American film industry without graduating from a top-tier film academy.
I want to direct, but from what I can see, spots at these academies are incredibly limited—and most of them seem to go to people who already have the right connections.

The directors with an Academy degree are only good at shooting commercials using high-end gear sponsored by big foreign or joint-venture production companies. As for everyone else making movies, I don't even know what to tell you—you see the kind of films they churn out... You can definitely make it without the Academy because our system is just a pathetic monopoly where one school controls directing and treats it like gold. It’s not worth it unless you have nothing but time to waste trying to get in, and even then, if someone gets in through connections, what's the point? 2. Write a script, learn everything you can about technical stuff, hit some seminars and courses, and just start shooting. You have a computer; you can do so much on a PC these days, and trust me, it’ll look better than those cheap local productions. Basically, festivals and such—if you don't make something great for our audience, nobody will notice, but if you do, you'll definitely succeed. 3. The real problem is our actors; most of them have no clue how to act for film, so you have to find decent actors, editors, lighting techs, and a solid cameraman 😬 yourself... Or, if you can handle all aspects alone, just try making something. It doesn't cost anything. I made three little clips myself with a basic crappy camcorder, no lights, edited in Media Player, and everything was improvised and done in three days. It isn't masterpiece material, but for practice and getting started, it seems okay to me.

1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwX1eCFNvc
2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDpP3a_kjDU
3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brkxzf8NVus
ps__
And this is all just a joke anyway; it has nothing to do with art or directing. But if you can get something out of improvisation during editing without any equipment, then if you actually put in the work, I think you can achieve a lot—and much better than those amateurish local projects or the average Joe. 😬 And the average Joes have made plenty of money.

vividpilot47 said:The directors with an Academy degree are only good at shooting commercials using high-end gear sponsored by big foreign or joint-venture production companies. As for everyone else making movies, I don't even know what to tell you—you see the kind of films they churn out... You can definitely make it without the Academy because our system is just a pathetic monopoly where one school controls directing and treats it like gold. It’s not worth it unless you have nothing but time to waste trying to get in, and even then, if someone gets in through connections, what's the point? 2. Write a script, learn everything you can about technical stuff, hit some seminars and courses, and just start shooting. You have a computer; you can do so much on a PC these days, and trust me, it’ll look better than those cheap local productions. Basically, festivals and such—if you don't make something great for our audience, nobody will notice, but if you do, you'll definitely succeed. 3. The real problem is our actors; most of them have no clue how to act for film, so you have to find decent actors, editors, lighting techs, and a solid cameraman 😬 yourself... Or, if you can handle all aspects alone, just try making something. It doesn't cost anything. I made three little clips myself with a basic crappy camcorder, no lights, edited in Media Player, and everything was improvised and done in three days. It isn't masterpiece material, but for practice and getting started, it seems okay to me.

1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwX1eCFNvc
2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDpP3a_kjDU
3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brkxzf8NVus
ps__
And this is all just a joke anyway; it has nothing to do with art or directing. But if you can get something out of improvisation during editing without any equipment, then if you actually put in the work, I think you can achieve a lot—and much better than those amateurish local projects or the average Joe. 😬 And the average Joes have made plenty of money.

I should also add that Ada isn't the only film academy in the world. 🙄
There are plenty of them all over Europe. 🙂

Mark Johnson5 said:I should also add that Ada isn't the only film academy in the world. 🙄
There are plenty of them all over Europe. 🙂

Sure, but you actually need some serious cash if you want to study directing abroad. Or am I wrong?

Sean Brown3 said:I’m wondering if there's any way to actually "make it" in the American film industry without graduating from a top-tier film academy.
I want to direct, but from what I can see, spots at these academies are incredibly limited—and most of them seem to go to people who already have the right connections.

🙄

no

I’ve sat in on plenty of discussions over in Central Park—talking shop with directors like Ognjen Svilicic and Rajko grlica, or screenwriters and professors like Goranin Tribuson from the Academy—and honestly, what you actually gather from their context when they get asked about the school is this... it's garbage.
I've been chewing on the whole Academy thing for years now. Everyone says there's zero chance unless you have connections and all that nonsense. That's why everyone just quits before they even start, but I don't think people should. Just try it—at least you won't be sitting there in 20 years wondering "what if."
Though, in all honesty, I don't think the Academy can teach you anything beyond basic theory—still planning to apply next year, though. Mostly just for the networking—you know, the contacts, the free camera ops, editors, and most importantly, the actors.🙂

lol I talked to some actors and also to Ognjen Svilicic, unfortunately. Regarding the answer about the Academy, it was just like you said... total crap. They basically just need the money.
It feels like the professors at the Academy in Washington, D.C. are totally clueless, so everything is just a mess. What’s worst is that we have such a small market here. If you actually want to make money and be successful, you basically have to make a damn movie that works for everyone—like how they eat dogs in China, or look at Torrent, who made it globally because he baked those Hollywood elements right into his work. Or you could try making something specifically for the old America market, like Lightning, or something along those lines.

Man, who even needs a degree...

it's all a joke (if you ask some guy on the forums)

I mean, half the actors and directors in Hollywood don't even have one. Actually, make that 90%...

Here’s a little teaser for this movie we’re filming... just a comedy, mostly messing around. We actually started it just to see if we could vibe as a crew and figure out everyone's quirks. It’s almost done now (after a whole year of work)... Once this wraps, we’re moving on to the next one, which is gonna be a bit more serious and experimental...

check it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OW5ELgXSqI

lonelynx16 said:Look, you don't need a fancy degree to make great movies! Honestly, most directors who actually contribute anything meaningful to the art of cinema never even stepped foot in a film academy, so I don't think it's even worth mentioning them in this context. Take Tarkovsky, for example—he did graduate from the USC School of Cinematic Arts and ended up being one of the absolute greats, but that was strictly because of the mentorship he received, the specific people he crossed paths with at that school, his refusal to compromise, and just pure, unadulterated talent... Academies tend to put people in boxes... mostly...

Around here, it feels like most directors are just mere technicians, which is why our movies often feel like they were mass-produced on an assembly line. It’s not like there aren't talented people out there ready to shatter that status quo; the problem is that if you didn't go to the right academy, you simply don't get the opportunity... or you end up getting squeezed by financiers who have zero respect for artistic freedom...

Listen, every craftsman needs to be good at what they do. Even "mass-produced" stuff is supposed to maintain a certain level of quality—which, by the way, American indie film basically lacks lately.

slyeagle13 said:Man, who even needs a degree...

it's all a joke (if you ask some guy on the forums)

I mean, half the actors and directors in Hollywood don't even have one. Actually, make that 90%...

And honestly, that explains exactly why we have to sit through so much absolute nonsense. Cheers to the rare exceptions who actually know what they're doing.

Look, capitalism is simple. If I’m the producer and I need an actor who actually moves tickets, I’m picking the guy who sells out theaters over some guy with a fancy degree every single time. Same goes for directors. I’d rather hire some random guy who can actually turn a profit than pay a massive premium for an Academy grad just to make some "artistic" crap that thirty people watch while pretending to be impressed. There's no deep philosophy here.
If you want to make money, you follow a proven formula. You make the kind of movies you mentioned—solid casts, maybe ten percent exceptions like you said. But if someone wants to make "art," they aren't making a dime. Plus, without that degree, nobody even gives them a look. Just make a good movie that appeals to the masses. That’s the only way to win. At the end of the day, a movie is a product plus marketing plus a little bit of art. Honestly, I can't remember a single decent movie made by an American director since the 90s. Most of what stood out felt like B-list Hollywood productions. So, maybe the idea that degrees make films better holds water somewhere else, but not here. Something smells fishy because, let's be real, those movies are garbage. If they were made in America, nobody would watch them either. We only tune in to these local ones to see if a miracle might actually happen.

Let’s take the USC School of Cinematic Arts (USC School of Cinematic Arts), specifically the USC School of Cinematic Arts. I mean, we’re talking about an institution where the faculty roster included legends like Sergei Eisenstein, Vsevolod Pudovkin, and Alexander Dovzhenko. And the alumni? You’ve got heavyweights like Andrei Tarkovsky (who studied under Mikhail Romm), Sergei Parajanov, Alexander Sokurov, Milcho Manchevski, Daniil Iosseliani, and even Nikita Mikhalkov, who just picked up an award at the Venice Film Festival...

When you actually sit down and weigh the sheer artistic impact and importance of these graduates, you realize something mind-blowing: these titans emerged from within the confines of a Soviet (Stalinist and post-Stalinist) dictatorship. Even with the constant weight of state censorship pressing down on them, they produced absolute masterpieces. Honestly, sometimes I catch myself wishing I were Russian... because that institute was founded back in 1919 and remains arguably the best in the world. Despite whatever technological lag existed in the old USSR or modern-day Russia, their creative output was unmatched. It’s just a shame that here in America, we can't seem to spark a total revolution in film school programs. It feels like there's always some group of self-important, megalomaniacal egoists running the show, backed by certain high-ranking bureaucrats in the industry, but I won't get sidetracked naming names right now. Anyone who actually knows the scene will know exactly what I'm talking about...

lonelynx16 said:Let’s take the USC School of Cinematic Arts (USC School of Cinematic Arts), specifically the USC School of Cinematic Arts. I mean, we’re talking about an institution where the faculty roster included legends like Sergei Eisenstein, Vsevolod Pudovkin, and Alexander Dovzhenko. And the alumni? You’ve got heavyweights like Andrei Tarkovsky (who studied under Mikhail Romm), Sergei Parajanov, Alexander Sokurov, Milcho Manchevski, Daniil Iosseliani, and even Nikita Mikhalkov, who just picked up an award at the Venice Film Festival...

When you actually sit down and weigh the sheer artistic impact and importance of these graduates, you realize something mind-blowing: these titans emerged from within the confines of a Soviet (Stalinist and post-Stalinist) dictatorship. Even with the constant weight of state censorship pressing down on them, they produced absolute masterpieces. Honestly, sometimes I catch myself wishing I were Russian... because that institute was founded back in 1919 and remains arguably the best in the world. Despite whatever technological lag existed in the old USSR or modern-day Russia, their creative output was unmatched. It’s just a shame that here in America, we can't seem to spark a total revolution in film school programs. It feels like there's always some group of self-important, megalomaniacal egoists running the show, backed by certain high-ranking bureaucrats in the industry, but I won't get sidetracked naming names right now. Anyone who actually knows the scene will know exactly what I'm talking about...

Honestly, I have no clue what you're talking about. I live abroad, so I'm out of the loop. A few years back, I actually thought about moving back to the States and enrolling in that Academy, but in the end, it all fell through for several reasons.

So, what's the actual deal with the Academy? Why is it such a mess? What kind of "revolution" are we talking about here?
Is it about replacing the faculty?
And if so, who would you even bring in?