How should we treat suicide attempts?

So, apparently Ms. FDA is a doctor. I’m actually glad she’s staying quiet, since I still haven't quite gotten over that display of pure simplicity and rudeness.

I feel like giving up. I'm just an old hypochondriac at this point... honestly, that might be the only way to finally get rid of all these ailments.
Look, I don't recall ever getting in your way. If anything, I go out of my way to give you a wide berth because, frankly, you’re about as pleasant as a stomach flu. Between your complicated personality issues and whatever is happening with your memory, you might want to go grab a prescription for Aricept.

Check the link for the full details!
I agree with what Jamie Clark74 said earlier. It’s a valid point. Sometimes you just have to accept that things are what they are. I try to stay positive, but even I have my limits. Hopefully, we can find some common ground soon.

Forget about me.

What kind of doctor or medical professional writes exactly like you?

On the other hand... I’m dealing with a woman diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder who is currently struggling with recurring suicidal ideation. This isn't her first time facing these thoughts.That’s why I put it in quotation marks. Let's be real—someone who actually intends to end their life isn't going to call an ambulance to report they swallowed a handful of pills. Patients with borderline personalities are easily my toughest demographic. Honestly, they’re a struggle.
Just a quick heads-up: Tylenol is well known for being hard on the liver if you aren't careful. If you overdose, it can be pretty toxic. Personally, I try to keep it under 2,000 to 3,000 mg a day just to stay on the safe side.

Doktor ne smije i ne moze mrziti bolesnika ...,nego mora da je u svakom slucaju pripravan pruziti pomoc u svakom obliku i razumjevanju.....kakovo si ti cudo?
__________________
When someone is struggling—whether they're dealing with a physical illness or deep psychological issues—they need support. But the real question is: who is actually going to step up and provide it?
If things had been handled properly from the start, we wouldn't be looking at a situation where someone ends up back in the hospital after a suspected "poisoning" attempt. Even someone without a medical background knows that patients in this condition need professional support—specifically, a consultation with a social worker—rather than having people like you just lash out at them.

On another note, you can take up to eight 500 mg Tylenol tablets in a 24-hour period, which brings you to a total of 4,000 mg. It’s the same deal with Panadeine Forte—it contains 500 mg of Tylenol and 30 mg of codeine. You’re still limited to eight tablets a day, meaning a patient could end up taking 4,000 mg of Tylenol and 240 mg of codeine within 24 hours.

So, you live in Switzerland, yet you're over here on another thread claiming the Swiss lack work ethic or whatever. And then there's you—sharing your "intellect" through such blunt and rude comments. Where are you actually from? You seem incredibly full of yourself.

I have to say, your vocabulary feels more like something you'd find in a landfill than from an intellectual.

Here's that link about Switzerland I mentioned.
I agree with Jamie Clark74 on this one. It’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of a new treatment, but we have to look at the actual data. I’ve been following the clinical trials closely, and while the results are interesting, they aren't exactly a miracle cure just yet. We need more long-term studies before we start celebrating too loudly. It's better to stay cautious.

Look, say whatever you want about me. I haven't changed; I’m the same person I’ve always been. People like you eventually just end up tripping over their own feet.

That’s probably the only thing they'll let you touch in Switzerland to clean up after someone throws up... honestly, that sounds like enough to make anyone lose their appetite for life. 😁

Honestly, I’m just as disgusted by my patients' comments as anyone else. It’s a bad look. It feels like that old-school, outdated mindset where people spit on the very people they rely on for survival.

In the States, a doctor actually takes a second to thank a patient at the end of an appointment. Sure, those are just small gestures...

But there's also a massive gap in understanding here. People clearly don't grasp basic psychology or psychiatry, especially when it comes to why a woman might be dealing with an overdose of Tylenol.

placidfox55 said:I feel the same way about my patients' comments. I guess that’s just the old European way—spitting on the very people who keep you in business.

In the US, a doctor actually thanks a patient at the end of a visit. But those are just small details...

It probably comes down to a lack of psychological insight or a failure to grasp the mental state of a woman arriving intoxicated on Tylenol.

There’s no excuse for what the FDA representative wrote or said, nor for how they turned it on me regarding that "poisoning" incident. If you aren't prepared to put in the work to gain the knowledge and empathy required of a doctor—which includes understanding psychology and psychiatry—then maybe this isn't the job for you.

At worst, you should step away from patient care and find a role where you don't have direct contact with them.

P.S. placidfox55, you might be disgusted by your own patients' comments, but that's one thing. This is different. This is the FDA official disparaging their own patients—the ones they rely on.

Nobody is claiming a medical career is easy or that losing patience isn't part of it. But a professional should maintain some composure. Whether she was writing about me or a patient, nobody needed her talking about cleaning out bowels. It’s obvious she lacks any real authority or understanding of what being a doctor actually means. People shouldn't be judged by which university they attended, but by their basic nature and upbringing.
I don't recall you ever making an insulting joke toward anyone in the three years I've known you.

🙂 😉 😎

Scott Allen10 said:Yeah, I was actually about to say the exact same thing as the previous poster...

Suicide attempts via Tylenol are incredibly "effective" and messy. I’m honestly surprised she survived; you probably managed to somehow buffer the stomach damage...
In my experience, anyone who swallows that much ends up losing their mind. Honestly, if someone tries to end it all and fails, I almost feel like they should just pick up a gun next time... maybe I'll add swallowing Tylenol to that suggestion too...

I always look forward to your posts. They're honest and reliable.
If I may, I’d like to add one thought here.

The folks struggling at the bottom often can't find a better way out... maybe they don't know any better, maybe they've lost hope, or maybe they've simply run out of will to live. Sometimes, they're just looking at tomorrow and seeing nothing but empty cupboards because there's no money for basic groceries.

When a patient is terminal and dying in a hospital, what actually happens when the end nears?
They bump up the morphine dosage. It isn't exactly a secret, even if it isn't openly acknowledged.
100-200mg twice a day and the problem is handled... your mother passes away peacefully... May God grant her rest... she doesn't suffer.

And thank goodness for that. What else would they do if they were at home? Reach for Tylenol...?

Over in Australia, they pulled pethidine from the list entirely... mainly because doctors were using it two or three times a day just to cope with the stress. It's gone. The official reason given by the government was that it "was never an adequate painkiller."

As for your comment about recommending a gun to those who fail their attempts... most people probably don't have easy access to weapons. Getting ahold of 50 Tylenol pills is a whole lot easier.

One thing is certain: IT IS EASY TO JUDGE OTHERS... UNDERSTANDING THEM IS MUCH HARDER!

Best,
😎

Jamie Clark74 said:P.S. St. Stephen, you might be disgusted by how your patients talk about you, if I'm reading this right... but this is different. This is the FDA spitting on the very people they rely on for a living.

What I meant was that I find it revolting when people comment on my patients. Honestly, I think I'm starting to lose my grip on basic grammar... 😬

@Hey there, Jamie Clark74

It’s a solid 5/5 from me, you’re the only one talking here...🙂
Regarding my previous post, I was specifically talking about using Tylenol 500 mg as a method for suicide and how "dangerous" that specific route is. I wasn't talking about someone accidentally overdosing on it (which, let's be honest, is pretty rare).
I'm totally with you on the whole palliative analgesia thing.
Now, about those comments regarding suicide... look, none of us who deal with these patients would ever deny them the care they need, whether it's meds or procedures. Absolutely not. They'll get the antidote, they'll get their stomach pumped, we'll fix their acid-base status, intubate them, put them on a ventilator, give them proper pain management, plenty of IV fluids... the works.
But... after years on the job seeing all sorts of things, watching people fight tooth and nail for a life that might be absolutely miserable... I'll admit, seeing patients like this triggers a certain kind of contempt in me.
Instead of actually facing life, or the problem, or whatever it is they're trying to kill themselves over.
Does anyone even stop to think about the people they leave behind? The family, the kids, the friends... or the absolute mess they leave those people in through their suicide or attempt? The grief, the loss of a father, a husband, or a son, the sudden debt... all of it.
Have any of you guys actually witnessed the pure drama unfolding outside an ER or a trauma bay when a family member collapses from shock and just hits their head against the wall in sheer agony, wondering WHY?
To be blunt, I see someone like that as a coward, and I don't feel any pity if they pass away.
Maybe it's just my professional bias talking, but I don't lose sleep over it. I know for a fact, like I said, that they received every single thing possible for their treatment and were never denied a procedure or a drug. Now, if my attitude toward them isn't some kind of soft, sympathetic mess... well, that's not my problem.

okay, we’re totally veering off topic here, but this is actually pretty interesting

just asking as a total layman—if someone is legitimately dealing with a mental illness and tries to take their own life, how can you even hold them legally responsible? it’s just like when clueless people talk about someone with clinical depression as if they’re just being "spoiled," or act like people with OCD are doing it on purpose... like they’re trying to "help" with useless advice like, "hey, your hands aren't actually dirty, just stop washing them 180 times a day." it's ridiculous...

I get why doctors might be frustrated right now—having to pull someone back from the brink when they're clearly suicidal is heavy—but I just don't get this total lack of perspective regarding the "big picture." I mean, it's not their job to play judge and jury with these patients... what these people need is actual psychiatric care. honestly, if psychiatrists reacted this way, nobody struggling with mental health would ever get the real help they need.

Honestly, just scrolling through this sub, you get the feeling that doctors (well, at least those claiming the title) are basically having a competition to see who can write the most incomprehensible, condescending, and straight-up heartless posts possible.

BIG RESPECT TO THE EXCEPTIONS, THOUGH!

rustymoose54 said:I get why doctors are frustrated when they end up reviving someone who clearly wants out, but I just don't get their inability to see the bigger picture.

It’s probably just routine at this point. I once saw a cartoon about it in a clinic—patient starts saying, "Doctor...", and the doc just cuts them off: "Yeah, I know. You're sick. God, this is tedious."

Eventually, everyone gets tired of their field and bites the hand that feeds them. I suppose being a doctor is harder than most other jobs, given they spend their entire lives dealing with sickness and misery; it makes it all too easy to start looking down on their patients.

Look at it this way: on one hand, they operate within this rigid hierarchy where patient satisfaction doesn't really impact their bottom line, so instead, they focus on posturing and showing off for their colleagues just to climb the ladder.

What she wrote is honestly disgraceful. It’s borderline encouraging self-harm—it sounds incredibly arrogant and completely heartless. Unfortunately, some doctors really are just like that. 😢

rustymoose54 said:we've gone off-topic, but this is actually pretty interesting

I'm asking as a layman here—if someone is genuinely struggling with a mental illness and attempts suicide because of it, how can we even hold them legally responsible? It feels similar to when people who don't get it try to comment on someone with clinical depression by calling them "spoiled," or act like someone with OCD is doing it on purpose (like trying to "help" with advice like, "hey, your hands aren't actually dirty, stop washing them 180 times a day").

I totally get why doctors might feel frustrated when they have to resuscitate someone who was trying to end their life, but I just can't wrap my head around that general failure to see the "big picture." Besides, it’s not really up to them to pass judgment on these patients; what these folks need is psychiatric care. If psychiatrists reacted that way, nobody dealing with mental illness would ever get the actual help they need.

I'm not talking about those with a diagnosed psychiatric history. Not them. Plus, all of my survivors end up in psych for follow-up treatment (or a psych team comes to them), so once they're stabilized, psychiatric care is a mandatory part of the process. But it's not just the mentally ill who do this... I'm talking about the others—the ones who are conditionally "normal."
But look... hey... don't be mad if you don't quite get where I'm coming from... I've been through way too many heavy situations in my career where people of all ages suddenly find themselves fighting tooth and nail just to stay alive. And man, they fight. They cling to life with everything they've got, enduring unimaginable pain and suffering, agreeing to anything just to keep breathing. And it isn't just the individual going through that struggle; more often than not, the whole family is right there in the trenches with them.
And then you've got some guy who just finds life too hard to deal with, and he wants to throw it all away with one gunshot to the head, a ligature around his neck, or a massive overdose of pills, leaving his parents, kids, and spouse absolutely devastated in his wake.
When I look at a poor soul who's been hit by a car and is fighting for every breath, and then I look at this person who chose to swallow a handful of meds, I see someone devaluing the very life that the other is fighting so desperately to keep.
Look, I'll be real—I don't feel the same way toward both. Maybe it's because, reading all this now, I just love life too much to let myself view it as something that can be tossed aside like that. You're free to call me cold or whatever you want, but I don't feel that way. For both of them, we did everything humanly possible; we'll react to both, and we'll intervene for both at every change in status, making sure both get the best meds and IV fluids available.
And there's one huge thing: we aren't looking at this from the same vantage point. Believe me, you'd definitely think differently if you had experience in anesthesia, resuscitation, or intensive care. You have to maintain a certain level of empathy, but you can't let every single tragedy break you or let it cloud your judgment. If I lived every tragedy as if it were my own, or if I started grouping suicides in with every other fate, I wouldn't be able to function.

Man, I've rambled on... I don't know if I've managed to explain my perspective a bit better. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't, but I know for sure I'm not being arrogant or rude, nor am I failing to see the "big picture." Maybe we're both looking at the exact same picture, just from different corners of the room?

Honestly, I’m just let down by FFE and Scott Allen10!!!

I can't believe people on this forum are actually discussing how to "elegantly" end it all using cheap, over-the-counter meds.
The second that 'Tylenol abuse' thread popped up, I found myself wondering if anyone would actually have the nerve to write about overdosing and the resulting liver toxicity.

Scott Allen10—I know you aren't a doctor, and as for FFE, who knows. But here is the Hippocratic Oath for those interested:

"I solemnl y swear to consecrate my life to the service of humanity. I will apply my knowledge and abilities to the welfare of those for whom they are called as a service. I will maintain in my life and practice the integrity and honor of the medical profession. I will do no harm and will abstain from whatever is injurious. I will hold in reverence whatever is due to my teachers, my mentors, and my colleagues. I will treat my patients with dignity and respect. I will respect the privacy of my patients. I will not permit considerations of race, creed, color, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, age, disability, or social standing to influence my decisions. I will respect human life from its beginning. I will not allow my medical knowledge to be used in opposition to the laws of humanity. This I solemnly pledge, freely and upon my honor."

To me, that's sacred. But clearly, to Scott Allen10 and FFE, it means nothing. Suicide is a cry for help—it's literally written in every psychiatry textbook out there. Scott Allen10, who are you to judge whether someone is a coward or not? You obviously have no clue what depression actually feels like. And unless you’ve passed a psych exam, you don't know anything. Besides, you aren't the one providing the antidote, pumping a stomach, correcting ABGs, or intubating... you aren't, because those are jobs for actual doctors!!!

Someone very dear to me attempted suicide once. We went through hell together, and even now, I still get stressed thinking about that call from the hospital. Luckily, it was a drug with an available antidote—there isn't one for Tylenol. Fortunately, thanks to having a psychiatrist in the family, intensive psychotherapy, and pharmacotherapy, that person is doing well today. They're happy, optimistic, and actually value their life. If it had been a different medication, though... God forbid...

I can think of at least 17 other ways someone could take their own life, but luckily I have a conscience, and for me, the Hippocratic Oath is sacred. FFE, I don't know if you ever took it, but I know Scott Allen10 certainly didn't.

Scott Allen10 said:...And then some idiot who can't handle life decides they want to end it all with one shot to the head, a slit throat, or just a handful of Tegretol and Apaurin—leaving their parents, kids, and spouses in total darkness...
Looking at someone fighting for their life after getting hit by a car, I just see another coward who swallowed a bunch of pills and devalued life itself.

Both sides are sick!!! You have no idea what drove that "idiot" or "coward," as you call them, to such a desperate act. They are seriously ill, regardless of how much you choose to ignore mental health. If they were sane, they wouldn't be doing this.

Scott Allen10, you've disappointed me 👎 — you're looking at this through a very primitive lens.

Anyone attempting to harm themselves or anyone else is mentally ill. And that's something that can actually be treated.

Scott Allen10 said:I was talking about using Tylenol as a method for suicide and how it’s a "vicious way" to go. I wasn't talking about someone accidentally overdosing on it (which is rare, anyway).

Accidental Tylenol overdoses aren't actually that rare. Whether it's intentional or not.

When people attempt suicide, they often end up facing much bigger problems than what they originally intended.
Or, out of pure ignorance, they take this painkiller and—without realizing they're wrecking their liver—end up risking their lives with Tylenol.

Justin Fox said:Eventually, everyone gets fed up with their field and bites the hand that feeds them. I guess being a doctor is tougher than most, since they’re constantly dealing with sick, miserable people, so they eventually start looking down their noses at their patients.

I don't see how being a doctor is any harder than being a clerk at the local DMV, watching ten people rush in five minutes before closing with some "urgent" paperwork they should've mailed days ago instead of paying for overnight shipping.

At the end of the day, we're all just people. Sometimes you end up clashing with folks whose moral compasses are spinning in circles compared to yours. But then again, when you consider the One who's watching us... maybe our own principles aren't looking quite so high and mighty either.

If anything, medicine is just more depressing. The damage these clients do to themselves daily makes the losses at a big bank or a clothing store look like nothing. A doctor just sits there, hour after hour, watching smokers, alcoholics, and diabetics—all of them wanting perfect health without putting in any of the work.

It's like everyone wants the interest from a bank account without ever making a deposit.

FFE The user said:On the flip side... I've got this one patient with borderline personality disorder who’s back at it again—this isn't even her first time trying to take herself out.That’s exactly why I put it in quotes. Let’s be real: someone who actually intends to end it all isn't going to call their local ER just to report they swallowed a handful of pills. Borderline women are hands down my toughest patients. I can't stand them.
Look, let's be clear: Tylenol is notorious for being hard on your liver if you overdo it. You can't just go overboard. Stick to a max of 2000–3000 mg a day, otherwise, you're asking for trouble.

This is just how humans react. It’s cynicism and dark humor—the kind of stuff that belongs in an ER breakroom or a psych ward, where medical staff can vent and blow off steam. A person comes this close to death, and suddenly dozens of people are scrambling around them, burning through piles of cash in what feels like total madness. And the kicker? In a few days, the whole thing will be forgotten. Maybe it happens again, maybe it doesn't.

The medical team isn't just going to stand there like statues. Okay, maybe not completely passive, but they’ll mostly be playing defense. They have a set of protocols to follow to try and stabilize the patient and keep them alive, but let's be real—there's zero guarantee that the person won't try the same thing again tomorrow, next month, or even a year from now.

It’s a pretty frustrating spot to be in. Honestly, the most mature way to deal with frustration is through humor—even if it is dark—but you don't need to take it out on the medical staff. Why go out of your way to shock people on a forum? Why chase that negative attention? You shouldn't be giving someone who's feeling suicidal any reason to think they should try a more "effective" method next time just to get some validation from a guy on a message board.

Sophia Martinez65, hey, just chill out for a second, okay? First off, this stuff about the medication isn't exactly breaking news, so I don't get why you're making such a huge scene over it, acting like someone's revealing some massive divine mystery. We're just talking here—it's not like we're in some support group for people looking to end it all, sharing heavy trauma. Plus, I think it’s actually useful for people to realize that this common med can be pretty dangerous if you go overboard with it. At the end of the day, every single drug is technically a poison; honestly, you could poison yourself with pretty much anything if you swallowed enough of it. Surely you can see where I'm coming from with that.
Are you going to freak out if I tell you that you could actually die if you downed 20 liters of water? Because there was actually a guy who passed away from "overdosing" on water once.
Just take a breath!!
Second thing, stop throwing Hippocrates at me and questioning what I'm doing. Look, I'm not a doctor—I never claimed to be—but if we're really going down that road, point out exactly where I've gone against those principles. I just gave that man everything he needed, regardless of who he was or what his situation was; I respect human life, and I don't use my expertise to pull any kind of bullshit. What's the issue there? Just because I don't particularly like certain types of people and don't feel the need to worship them? Hmm...
And please, spare me the lectures with that hipokrat-patetipa nonsense! I hate it when people wave phrases like that around when, in reality, both you and I know things are way more complicated than that.
On another note, I am genuinely glad that everything turned out okay with your loved one. And back then, during those critical moments (if they even were), there was someone like me there helping her out, even if that person might not be the biggest fan of suicidal people.
For the record, I did listen to psych lectures and studied hard enough to pass under Dr. Jakovljević back in the day (I think that was his name, it was a long time ago). But psychiatry and my actual line of work are worlds apart; as much as psychiatric insight is necessary when dealing with incidents like this, it doesn't really play a role in my daily routine.
Moving on—you won't believe this, but I'll be the one flushing the stomach, administering the antidote, setting up the IV, correcting the ABGs, drawing arterial blood for labs, running tox screens, and God knows if I get there first or if the doctors are tied up, I'll probably be the one intubating too... I mean, paramedics do all that on a 911 call, so why should that be strictly a doctor's job?
The whole point is teamwork, Sophia. It’s not helpful to throw around "I do this, you don't do that" because it doesn't actually say anything and just makes you look silly.
Now that I've laid all that out, what's next? Nothing. I'm still doing my job properly, and the fact that I disappointed you isn't my problem. I could just as easily say that you completely disappointed me by totally missing my point and using that "modern," overly dramatic black-and-white logic to show you didn't understand what I wrote at all.

Scott Allen10, if you don't have any empathy for those poor souls spiraling into a terrifying psychological crisis and contemplating suicide, then you shouldn't be talking with such cold indifference—acting like "I'm the hero saving the day while they're just losers."

We're talking about people who need mental health treatment just as much as someone else might need surgery. One group is dealing with illness, the other with an injury, but both deserve help equally.

Arslan said:Scott Allen10, if you can't show any empathy for poor people caught in a terrifying psychological crisis who are attempting suicide, it really shows when you talk so heartlessly—like it's just "I'm the hero saving them, and they're just losers."

We're talking about people who need mental health treatment just as much as anyone else needs surgery; both groups are sick or injured, and both deserve help equally.

And we all foot the bill for it. But when someone young and productive—someone actually paying for the treatment of these suicidal individuals—suddenly needs an urgent MRI or, say, their kids need something critical... then suddenly there's nothing available. You have to cough up the cash or go to a private clinic. Meanwhile, money just keeps disappearing from our paychecks...

Forgive me, I guess the healthcare system has jaded me too. I've become a little numb, I guess...

Dammit, our healthcare system is just fundamentally unfair. If someone wants to take their own life, they should probably pay for it themselves. Or better yet, be efficient about it so they don't leave their family and society picking up the tab...