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Why are fewer and fewer young people choosing to become doctors?

Started by brightmarlin44 · · 👁 11 views · 304 replies

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Participants brightmarlin44Megan ReedJustin FoxSusan Martin24Jamie Clark74placidfox55Susan James42northerncobra27Scott Allen10shadowfalcon33Angela Rodriguez2Donna Chavez4Jacob Wood9Sandra King86silentmason15Casey Cook10Frank Alvarez8Lisa Richardson8Lawrence WellsSean Hernandez5Sophia Martinez65Harold Mendoza3stormylynx14Chris Morgan67 …
Casey Cook10 Casey Cook10 Active Member
77 messages
joined May 2024
#261 ·
Scott Allen10 said:Hey, please don't start making things up! 🙂

It’s just basic math, really:
It’s basically just the base pay plus a little extra for your years on the job—like adding half a percent for every year you've put in—then you tack on whatever position differential applies and any overtime or on-call pay you picked up.
So, the specialist coefficient starts at around 2.04, while the base rate is sitting right around... $1533So, you basically just put in your time through seniority, maybe grab a promotion or a new title along the way, and eventually, it all leads up to those on-call shifts.
If we're talking about picking up eight extra shifts a month, that’s looking like an extra $1,200 to $1,400 in the pocket for a young specialist, which honestly isn't a bad way to pad the savings account.

it still feels pretty low, I guess.
Not even mentioning how those 8 twenty-four-hour shifts mean you're basically never home. And in those high-demand specialties—which is going to be most of them soon—you usually end up staying to work after your shift is over anyway (for free, obviously). I really wonder what happens when federal regulations push for shorter work weeks and who's actually going to follow them.

It just ends up tanking the quality of healthcare too. Doctors really need decent pay for one simple reason—so they don't have to worry about anything except medicine. I bet 99% of them would totally be fine with making maybe $4,000 or $4,500 a month if they only had to pull 2 or 3 shifts a month. Of course, there'll always be people who want way more, but that's a whole different story, I suppose.
Rachel Green52 Rachel Green52 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Apr 2008
#262 ·
You hit the nail right on the head, Casey Cook10! 😢
Unfortunately, it’s one of those "open secrets." Any politician or high-ranking official brave enough to actually say it out loud would be flown straight out of office before they could even finish their sentence.
The stories they feed the general public just don't reflect the grim reality of what's actually happening in our healthcare system.
So, honestly, I don't see an easy way out, at least not for now. 🤷
Anyone else thinking about entering the medical profession? For your own sake, you might want to think twice. 👎
Megan Reed Megan Reed Active Member
170 messages
joined Sep 2005
#263 ·
Rachel Green52 said:You hit the nail right on the head, Casey Cook10! 😢
Unfortunately, it’s one of those "open secrets." Any politician or high-ranking official brave enough to actually say it out loud would be flown straight out of office before they could even finish their sentence.
The stories they feed the general public just don't reflect the grim reality of what's actually happening in our healthcare system.
So, honestly, I don't see an easy way out, at least not for now. 🤷
Anyone else thinking about entering the medical profession? For your own sake, you might want to think twice. 👎

Right, let's just go ahead and scare everyone off before they even begin. 😁

If this attitude keeps up, I honestly think we won't have anyone left applying to med school in a few years. 🤷 😬
wiredskipper41 wiredskipper41 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Apr 2008
#264 ·
Roughly what does a resident's salary look like? Also, what’s the vibe during residency—are lectures held after work hours, during the day, or how often do they happen? Finally, I guess what are the chances of landing one of those high-demand specialties in Washington, D.C., like dermatology or ophthalmology?
ironsailor92 ironsailor92 Newcomer
1 message
joined Apr 2008
#265 ·
wiredskipper41 said:Roughly what does a resident's salary look like? Also, what’s the vibe during residency—are lectures held after work hours, during the day, or how often do they happen? Finally, I guess what are the chances of landing one of those high-demand specialties in Washington, D.C., like dermatology or ophthalmology?

Look, I’m not a med student, but my dad’s a doctor—so I know a thing or two... Getting a residency is brutal, especially those popular ones—honestly, most of the time, it all comes down to who you know.
Gregory Gomez45 Gregory Gomez45 Member
20 messages
joined Jul 2009
#266 ·
ironsailor92 said:Look, I’m not a med student, but my dad’s a doctor—so I know a thing or two... Getting a residency is brutal, especially those popular ones—honestly, most of the time, it all comes down to who you know.

Nowadays, finding a specialty in medicine is relatively easy, but it might not be worth the payoff.
wiredskipper41 wiredskipper41 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Apr 2008
#267 ·
Even the ones being requested?
Scott Allen10 Scott Allen10 Regular
315 messages
joined Jun 2005
#268 ·
Casey Cook10 said:it still feels pretty low, I guess.
Not even mentioning how those 8 twenty-four-hour shifts mean you're basically never home. And in those high-demand specialties—which is going to be most of them soon—you usually end up staying to work after your shift is over anyway (for free, obviously). I really wonder what happens when federal regulations push for shorter work weeks and who's actually going to follow them.

It just ends up tanking the quality of healthcare too. Doctors really need decent pay for one simple reason—so they don't have to worry about anything except medicine. I bet 99% of them would totally be fine with making maybe $4,000 or $4,500 a month if they only had to pull 2 or 3 shifts a month. Of course, there'll always be people who want way more, but that's a whole different story, I suppose.

The debate over salaries for any profession honestly never ends. I don't think there's a single job out there where someone would stand up and say, "You know what? I make plenty, I'm totally good with this, everything is perfect."
Everyone, and I mean everyone, tells that same "it's never enough" story, whether they're tradespeople, professors, cops, military, or civil servants—including doctors.
And look, there's nothing wrong with that; it's completely fair.
But how realistic are some of these numbers given the current state of the US economy compared to all the other groups sucking up taxpayer money?
I can see why someone in public service might feel underpaid if they're pulling in maybe $3,500 a month net. But how do you defend that when the average American income is way lower, and even that's a number most government workers can only dream of? Not to mention, for that kind of money, most people wouldn't even show up for half the month, let alone the 8 days we were talking about earlier.
Sure, we can talk about the years of schooling, the sacrifices, the specializations, the endless training... all of that counts, but my take is that's exactly why doctors earn twice as much as everyone else in the public sector, no matter how much people try to deny it. At the end of the day, nobody went to med school in the last decade or so without knowing exactly what the pay looks like and what they'd have to give up.
As for those who truly want to maximize their earnings through their profession, well, they've got credit lines, banks, leasing, and whatnot... buy your own scalpels, forceps, stilette, tubes, catheters, monitors, defibrillators... run ads on local radio or massive billboards... jump into the market, and if you're successful, you can make an absolute killing.
It's just like any other business. But then, you're solely responsible for your own success, without relying on a guaranteed lifeline from Medicare to pay you whether you worked or not.
Just a quick correction to my previous math. I heard recently that the base is now over $1667, so a specialist's pay looks like:
$1,200 x 2.04 (meaning over $2,500 $0.00 without any on-call pay, bonuses, or seniority) + 0.5% per year of experience + call pay + position allowances. So, for a young specialist doing 8 shifts, we're looking at maybe $3,500-$4,000.
Ultimately, I'm not against doctors making more money—far from it. I am, however, absolutely against the claim that doctors are underpaid when their income is already significantly higher than the average American salary.
wiredskipper41 wiredskipper41 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Apr 2008
#269 ·
I know a few people whose salaries aren't even close to what you mentioned, so I guess your math might be a little off.
boldraven88 boldraven88 Newcomer
2 messages
joined May 2008
#270 ·
I'm part of the younger crowd here on the forum, just starting my freshman year of high school over in Miami... My plan is to head into med school once I graduate, though I haven't decided where exactly yet. I was wondering what you all think about the whole medical field? Is it actually realistic to find a steady job, especially knowing how tough the job market can be these days, let alone trying to land a position as an MD... I feel like I have the drive and the potential to dive into something else related to biology, chemistry, or physics too, since those subjects really fascinate me and I want them to be my life's work. What's your take on how medical school compares to other science degrees, like molecular biology or general biology?...

😕just a curious kid...🙂
goldengull3 goldengull3 Regular
260 messages
joined Nov 2007
#271 ·
boldraven88 said:I'm part of the younger crowd here on the forum, just starting my freshman year of high school over in Miami... My plan is to head into med school once I graduate, though I haven't decided where exactly yet. I was wondering what you all think about the whole medical field? Is it actually realistic to find a steady job, especially knowing how tough the job market can be these days, let alone trying to land a position as an MD... I feel like I have the drive and the potential to dive into something else related to biology, chemistry, or physics too, since those subjects really fascinate me and I want them to be my life's work. What's your take on how medical school compares to other science degrees, like molecular biology or general biology?...

😕just a curious kid...🙂

Hard to find work? Across the entire country, there are currently only 35 physicians who have passed their board exams at the Institute, and it’s becoming a genuine crisis; we are going to have to start importing talent. Furthermore, residency programs are actually paid positions now.

Additionally, if you are looking to move away from the major metropolitan areas, securing a specialty becomes remarkably easy.
boldraven88 boldraven88 Newcomer
2 messages
joined May 2008
#272 ·
goldengull3 said:Hard to find work? Across the entire country, there are currently only 35 physicians who have passed their board exams at the Institute, and it’s becoming a genuine crisis; we are going to have to start importing talent. Furthermore, residency programs are actually paid positions now.

Additionally, if you are looking to move away from the major metropolitan areas, securing a specialty becomes remarkably easy.

Goodness, I was really just asking what you all thought about med school...
🤷😕
Gregory Gomez45 Gregory Gomez45 Member
20 messages
joined Jul 2009
#273 ·
boldraven88 said:Goodness, I was really just asking what you all thought about med school...
🤷😕

If you want my honest opinion, it's a no. It really isn't worth studying medicine here in the States. I'm around colleagues in the field every single day. I guess you should only go into medicine if you enjoy being crushed by Medicare, patients, and everyone in between for some measly salary that's basically just the average American wage. Honestly, I don't know a single happy or satisfied doctor, dentist, or nurse.
wiredskipper41 wiredskipper41 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Apr 2008
#274 ·
Just circling back to my previous question—does anyone happen to know what the typical pay looks like while you're doing your residency?
Gregory Gomez45 Gregory Gomez45 Member
20 messages
joined Jul 2009
#275 ·
wiredskipper41 said:Just circling back to my previous question—does anyone happen to know what the typical pay looks like while you're doing your residency?

It really depends on who's sponsoring you, but I guess it's probably around $1667 +- $167
Lawrence Wells Lawrence Wells Regular
312 messages
joined Jun 2006
#276 ·
Gregory Gomez45 said:It really depends on who's sponsoring you, but I guess it's probably around $1667 +- $167

Honestly, it all comes down to what industry you're actually in.
Christian Wood63 Christian Wood63 Newcomer
6 messages
joined May 2008
#277 ·
People aren't actually insane enough to grind through six years of medical school just to find themselves standing at the starting line
They still have to master actual clinical practice, and then there's the matter of the paycheck. As if anyone would even bother thinking about that.
Kevin White5 Kevin White5 Active Member
96 messages
joined Mar 2006
#278 ·
Scott Allen10 said:The debate over salaries for any profession honestly never ends. I don't think there's a single job out there where someone would stand up and say, "You know what? I make plenty, I'm totally good with this, everything is perfect."
Everyone, and I mean everyone, tells that same "it's never enough" story, whether they're tradespeople, professors, cops, military, or civil servants—including doctors.
And look, there's nothing wrong with that; it's completely fair.
But how realistic are some of these numbers given the current state of the US economy compared to all the other groups sucking up taxpayer money?
I can see why someone in public service might feel underpaid if they're pulling in maybe $3,500 a month net. But how do you defend that when the average American income is way lower, and even that's a number most government workers can only dream of? Not to mention, for that kind of money, most people wouldn't even show up for half the month, let alone the 8 days we were talking about earlier.
Sure, we can talk about the years of schooling, the sacrifices, the specializations, the endless training... all of that counts, but my take is that's exactly why doctors earn twice as much as everyone else in the public sector, no matter how much people try to deny it. At the end of the day, nobody went to med school in the last decade or so without knowing exactly what the pay looks like and what they'd have to give up.
As for those who truly want to maximize their earnings through their profession, well, they've got credit lines, banks, leasing, and whatnot... buy your own scalpels, forceps, stilette, tubes, catheters, monitors, defibrillators... run ads on local radio or massive billboards... jump into the market, and if you're successful, you can make an absolute killing.
It's just like any other business. But then, you're solely responsible for your own success, without relying on a guaranteed lifeline from Medicare to pay you whether you worked or not.
Just a quick correction to my previous math. I heard recently that the base is now over $1667, so a specialist's pay looks like:
$1,200 x 2.04 (meaning over $2,500 $0.00 without any on-call pay, bonuses, or seniority) + 0.5% per year of experience + call pay + position allowances. So, for a young specialist doing 8 shifts, we're looking at maybe $3,500-$4,000.
Ultimately, I'm not against doctors making more money—far from it. I am, however, absolutely against the claim that doctors are underpaid when their income is already significantly higher than the average American salary.


YOU ARE INSANE!

1. Who in their right mind works 8 shifts a month!? That means you aren't sleeping at home twice a week. It means in one week with those shifts, you're pulling 2 + 24 hours, which is 48 hours just from two calls. And obviously, you still have to work the rest of the week, making it: 8+8+8+24+24= 72 hours a week.

Who actually wants to work at least 72 hours a week??? For peanuts?


2. The base pay for a standard 40-hour week is pathetic. Call pay is an EXTRA thing. Why would I be a sucker and take 8 shifts a week and sleep at the hospital every third day—maybe not even sleep if the ER is slammed—when primary practice doesn't even handle what it's supposed to (with exceptions)?????!

3. I haven't even factored in working Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas, or Easter.

4. This whole idea is just gross. Gross, gross, gross.
Rachel Green52 Rachel Green52 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Apr 2008
#279 ·
Kevin White5 said:YOU ARE INSANE!

1. Who in their right mind works 8 shifts a month!? That means you aren't sleeping at home twice a week. It means in one week with those shifts, you're pulling 2 + 24 hours, which is 48 hours just from two calls. And obviously, you still have to work the rest of the week, making it: 8+8+8+24+24= 72 hours a week.

Who actually wants to work at least 72 hours a week??? For peanuts?


2. The base pay for a standard 40-hour week is pathetic. Call pay is an EXTRA thing. Why would I be a sucker and take 8 shifts a week and sleep at the hospital every third day—maybe not even sleep if the ER is slammed—when primary practice doesn't even handle what it's supposed to (with exceptions)?????!

3. I haven't even factored in working Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas, or Easter.

4. This whole idea is just gross. Gross, gross, gross.

Medical students: *applause*
(If anyone can) from the medical field 🙂
driftinghound14 driftinghound14 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Jul 2010
#280 ·
It’s not even about the doctors or the nurses... but I was browsing some forums earlier looking up how to build a fireplace, and I ended up getting a little distracted. Professional contractors charge anywhere from $10,000 to $5000 just for the installation. All they really bring to the table is manual labor and a bit of specialized knowledge. For that kind of money, a doctor—let alone a nurse, who works like a pack mule with enough responsibility to cause nightmares—could get a lot more. It’s standard practice for a nurse to establish an IV line, right? And it’s perfectly normal for a doctor to dictate exactly what goes into that vein. Meanwhile, a contractor connects two pipes, tweaks a few things here and there, does a little bit of this and that, and walks away with $3333. Let him have his $667... but honestly, how much does a neurosurgeon actually make for $667?

So, why wouldn't the younger generation want to go into medicine?

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